kuncol02
Banned
Where that info originated from? That's first time I heard that.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Xbox Series S / Lockhart Details To Be Revealed Soon; Console Will Be Priced At Around $300 – Rumor
- Thread starter sonomamashine
- Start date
- Rumor
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
Please share your source, because as far as I know, we don't know the numbers of these separate systems.
Thirty7ven
Banned
The only thing that means is that Playstation 4 and Switch are more desirable than a X1/X1X.
The Ps4/Slim sells more than the Pro.
Is this true? The Switch Lite seems to be selling really well. But it is lacking in features compared to the original, namely the feature for which the system is named after...
Lockhart and XSX are more like Iphone XR and Iphone XS MAX. They are basically the same, but one is higher resolution.
Because MS doesn't share data, we just have to look at the market. And if the market prices X1X at a lower price than the PS4 pro, that means demand isn't there. Honestly it's a bit glaring to see the X1X launch at 499$ and now being priced lower than the PS4 pro.
Last edited:
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
Neither does Sony, right? Sony doesn't provide a breakdown between different SKU's. At least that's what I thought. Nonetheless I'm pretty sure the Pro is outselling the One X though.
Last edited by a moderator:
Nope, It just means, that Microsoft is "clearing the stocks" since they already stopped XOne production. And maybe they are doing that because they have replacement for both consoles (Lockhart??)
Vawn
Banned
Yes, PlayStation and Nintendo are more popular. But you are comparing different Xbox SKUs. Xbox One S greatly outsells the One X, as does the base base PS4 over the Pro.
I don't know the base Switch vs Lite sales, but that is different anyway. It isn't power that differiantes them, it is functionality.
Vawn
Banned
Yes, because ALL PS4s outsell all Xbox Ones. How does that relate to Xbox Series S vs Xbox Series X?
Tulipanzo
Member
I assume you mean I was comparing Pro to X1X, but I actually provided more examples, both within and without the XBox family.
Price is obviously a factor, but to think it's the most important thing is clearly wrong.
The Switch Lite, as I said, is a clear example.
It is a markedly cheaper system, playing the exact same games at the same quality as the Switch's portable mode. It is aimed at a known audience, as many people don't dock their Switch very often.
This system, very much on par with the OG, AND cheaper.. still got outsold.
I have no reason to believe a system billed as a "worse XSX" will outsell the OG system, i.e. the one with better functionality and marketing.
Also I have an X1, but keep being paranoid about fanboys I guess.
To make a game run on VR, you often have to sacrifice a lot, as the system as to output a binocular image, effectively halving available computational power. This leads to VR games looking worse than regular games on the same hardware.
The Lockhart's computational power is a third of the XSX, and EVERY GAME has to run on it, as per mandate.
Imagine if Sony told every dev their game would have to run on PSVR to ship on PS4, and you can see where the problems start.
You have to program for two different scenarios, one with much lower available resources.
*worse CPU and RAM as per Windows Central
It'd be great if it could run at 1080p, but that only happens if the XSX is close to 4K, and we've already seen Minecraft RT and the UE5 demo forgo 4K resolutions for better visual enhancements.
A dev on UE5 could use their highest quality assets, no LODs and no pop-in on XSX, but then have to craft worse versions of everything they're doing so Lockhart can hit 1080p. That's a ton extra work for a game to look worse.
Any advances in RT, virtualized geometry and high-level assets flies out the window on Lockhart.
That's Mr. Matt Booty "Head of XBox Games Studios" to you. Show some respectMr. "Microsoft won't have any exclusives"
Tulipanzo
Member
Out of two consoles with near identical functionality, the more expensive is leading in sales.
Similarly, the XSX, a console with much better performance, and improved next-gen functionality, will outsell the Lockhart.
Not dissimilar, imo, as to how the 600$ PS3 outsold the 500$ sku at launch.
Thirty7ven
Banned
I think there somebody who posted NPD stuff who said the PS4 was outselling the PRO, as of last year. I don't have a link.
They have been clearing stocks for awhile... Come on man. Products fall in price all the time when demand isn't there.
I'm not claiming that this is 100% a reason. Could be "clearing stocks" or it could be "X1X isn't selling well" or combination of both.
Tulipanzo
Member
These are some examples of systems with higher prices selling better than lower priced devices, because indeed "desirability" is more complex than just the price.
Within the XBox family, the X1S is outselling the cheaper SAD and OG, because it has more attractive functionality.
I doubt a "worse XSX" could outsell the original even if cheaper.
Yep, 1.85M vs 2.85M at launch.
This is a best-case scenario, with two near identical systems, one lacking just docking, both playing the same games at the same level of quality, and aimed at a known audience of portable users; and the more expensive still sold better.
Again, price didn't make up for the perceived loss of value, and this might affect Lockhart, a system that's blatantly worse under every single metric.
Not quite, as those two phones have identical GPU, CPU and RAM allocation.
Plus applications on phone don't vary as wildly as on console, meaning either phone is more than capable of its job.
If we look at performance, than the Iphone 6 ( about 1/3rd the XS Max GPU) is a closer comparison between XSX and Lockhart.
Tulipanzo
Member
Sources: Microsoft Is Still Planning A Cheaper, Disc-Less Next-Gen Xbox
In June, Microsoft announced Project Scarlett, a new iteration of the Xbox that the company said would “set a new bar for console power, speed and performance.” What Microsoft didn’t say is that it is also working on a lower-cost, disc-less version of Scarlett, code-named Lockhart, according to...
kotaku.com
It's been reported as disc-less since April last year afaik.
Last edited:
kuncol02
Banned
Idiots. Idiots everywhere.Sources: Microsoft Is Still Planning A Cheaper, Disc-Less Next-Gen Xbox
In June, Microsoft announced Project Scarlett, a new iteration of the Xbox that the company said would “set a new bar for console power, speed and performance.” What Microsoft didn’t say is that it is also working on a lower-cost, disc-less version of Scarlett, code-named Lockhart, according to...
Here's the most recent report, and seemingly Tom Warren said as much in a podcast.
It's been reported as disc-less since April last year afaik.
$250 or DoA.
Vawn
Banned
That don't have the same functionality when they play different games.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I for one never believed that this is the case. And if it is, I can't see it being sold for $300. But lets say Lockhart is a 1080p version of XSX.......what happens if a 1st party studio wanted to make a 1440p/30 fps game on XSX with the purest form of RayTraced lighting? How would that work on Lockhart? What would it look like? Would it have to be 720p?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
If Lockhart is $250 (or even $300), it would make the Xbox Series X the WORST value proposition in next-gen console release history! Lots of gamers will say, "oh so I should pay 66%-100% more money ($200-$250) just for 4K resolution of the same games? Why? For what?"
Vawn
Banned
Yeah, saying a console is a "1080p" or "4K/8K"machine makes no sense. Resolution ceilings change on a game by game basis, not hardware.
You can say that, for most games, the S will run at a lower resolution, but there's no way you can say what that number is - it will be different for each situation. For smaller or indie games, the S should run exactly the same as X.
You can say that, for most games, the S will run at a lower resolution, but there's no way you can say what that number is - it will be different for each situation. For smaller or indie games, the S should run exactly the same as X.
DaGwaphics
Member
Something targeting 1440p would be 720p on lockhart (1/4 pixels), I'm curious where this 576p math comes from. LOL
Last edited:
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Why do people pay $1000+ for an iphone 11 when the SE does everything the Iphone 11 can? This is a really tired argument.
Vawn
Banned
No, the tired argument is people constantly comparing the mobile phone market to the video game console market. It has been shown that these markets do not correlate, yet people keep using this argument.
DaGwaphics
Member
This isn't just a mobile phone thing. This is EVERY consumer product ever released. Multiple price points is not an unusual concept, some people want the best and will pay more for it, others do not.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
No one has ever given a valid argument to how it doesn't. The video game market has shown just like the rest of the world market when it comes to consumer electronics that a cheaper more affordable option is what consumers prefer. The most popular TVs, computers, phones are never the high priced model. Even the Pro and One X don't outsell their less powerful siblings. The consumer has spoken. Most prefer a budget machine vs the high end. The high end will continue to exist for those who want it.
Vawn
Banned
Yes, but the number of people buying the cheaper model will be the vast majority. Which sucks, because developers will focus mostly on that audience.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
As someone that was seriously thinking of picking up a XB1S, if I could get one of these for basically the same price I may as well wait it out.
Vawn
Banned
I don't disagree. But publishers will spend their resources to make their biggest audience happy (the weaker hardware).
DaGwaphics
Member
As long as the numbers scale correctly (MS could really botch things if lockhart has too little memory or too weak a processor, etc.) it wouldn't matter what platform was the initial target, doesn't make a bit of difference. Though, according to rumors there is no specific lockhart dev kit, just a mode in the XSX dev box, which would indicate a top down approach.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Never said that wouldn't be the case. You replied to comment that had nothing to do with the performance of a machine and who/what devs will target.
Last edited:
Tulipanzo
Member
Yeah, I noticed that was wrong.
There isn't really a 16:9 format with a pixel density of 40% 1440p (4TF Lockhart vs 10TF PS5), so I messed up.
It'd be 1619:910 in 16:9, and it has total pixel "similar to A4 paper format (~123 dpi for A4 size)" according to Wikipedia, in 7:5, which is neat!
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
Because 4K looks better than 1080p, just like 1080p looks better than 720p...
Tulipanzo
Member
Exactly! Which is why I don't see a console with much reduced functionality, features and perfomance doing better just because it's cheaper.
prinz_valium
Member
It would be the same price as Ps5, just being more powerful, faster and with more storage.
How is that the worst value proposition in next-gen console release history?
Boxman
Banned
Not quite 576p. I did similar maths and came to a different following conclusion:
Series S Power = 1080p 60fps.
Series X Power = 2160p 60fps.
Series X game = 1440p
1440 / 2160 = 0.6666666667
1080 x 0.6666666667 = 720p on the Lockhart.
Therefore, a game running at 1440p on Series X may instead need to run at 720p on the Lockhart. I could be wrong though, and I would enjoy having someone else's opinion on it. Regardless, I guess we can both agree that it somewhat restricts first-party developers on how to develop games on the Series X if they're not allowed to go below 1080p on Lockhart.
DaGwaphics
Member
Just noticed that BestBuy is doing All Access now, good to see a brick & mortar option for that. Only $23/mo for the S model. No option for the One X.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Microsoft might be keeping thie higher end model to themselves since they are doing the upgrade thing?Just noticed that BestBuy is doing All Access now, good to see a brick & mortar option for that. Only $23/mo for the S model. No option for the One X.
Tulipanzo
Member
The 1440p I mentioned was for PS5, but still.
2560 x 1440 on 12TF, or 3,686,400 total pixel.
If TF scales linearly to resolution you divide by 3, as 12/4=3
1,228,800 or 1478:831 in 16:9 (which doesn't exist on TVs).
The resolution would be a bit higher then 720p, if a 1440p game on XSX were scaled down on the Lockhart.
EDIT: In the model you've built the XSX has 4 times the power of the Lockhart, while in reality it has about 3x
Last edited:
Boxman
Banned
In Australia I find the PS4 Pro almost always on par with the One X or more expensive. The One X sells here for $292 USD when on sale for example while the PS4 Pro is almost always 353 USD.
DaGwaphics
Member
BB is doing the upgrade to XSX option after 18 months. It's possible that 1X is dead at retail and the CP console was just the last gasp, or they don't want to set the wrong pricing expectations for All Access on the X model (since 1X is always on fire sale).
Alter_Fridge
Member
Lol 300
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
You may want to ask yourself "WHY" would MS release a brand new product that they spent billions of dollars researching and developing, just to price it at the same price as a 5-year-old Xbox One S.
But does it look $200-$250 per console better?
Last edited:
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Tulipanzo
Member
This is a really optimistic view, and it's more than likely to come in more expensive than that, running worse and lacking features.
Programming isn't as easy as moving a resolution slider, and even games running at 4K on the SeX will need extra work.
Very likely we'll see it at 350-400, with no RT, worse running games and varying optimization, especially at launch.
The weird thing is going to be how it compares to the X1X, as you may have games potentially running at a higher res there, which is a PR nightmare I imagine.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
I'll take an avatar bet series S won't be above $299.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Because not everybody has a 4k television and needs that kind of horsepower.
Very true. But why would MS "choose" to sell the Lockhart console at the same price point that they are selling the Xbox One S now?
Tulipanzo
Member
Conflicted here, because I honestly don't think it can afford to be more than that, but even butchering all XSX functionality that's a really tough price to reach.
That, and they refuse to even admit it's real less than six months from launch.
They were supposed to announce it this month, but delayed it to August. I imagine they didn't want to start damage controlling and prefer to reveal it with a price.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Because they're trying to undercut the Playstation 5, I would guess. If you can tell customers that they get to play all the new games for potentially half the price of the Playstation 5 I can guarantee that'll get you some sales.
Thirty7ven
Banned
If Ps5 is 499$ I could see them go with 349$. But they are going to take it on the chin for sure, and they will go 299$ if they feel like they need it, no doubt in my mind.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
I don't see any way it's more as the value proposition would be lopsided. $349 series S and $499 series X just doesn't look nearly as compelling to me as $299 and $499.
The rumor was for ahwile, sometime ago, that the idea was to sandwhich the ps5 because they were confident Sony was targeting $399.