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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
lepermessiah said:
Yee, funny what happens to FUD when actual evidence comes along. Peeps still pointing to floating point peaks on paper however will continue to be surprised lmao
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When they come with something "close" to this, then they can talk about it:

LmrsP3VYxd6uz4cLmBZ5kY.png


Something running on Xbox, not 2080Ti-PC, or "representative" BS.
 
TGO

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
danhese007 said:
qVsyUhi.gif


Which Insomniac game has been downgraded this gen? Literally all of them has ended up looking better and performing better than the first gameplay. Sunset overdrive had performance issues that was fixed when it was released, Spiderman looked better, Ratchet and Clank looked better, Sony has been consistent this entire generation, all their games have looked better than the initial gameplay demonstration.
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source.gif

I call that a downgrade
 
J_Gamer.exe

J_Gamer.exe

Member
BGs said:
If people are only interested in hearing what they want to hear, I cannot spend more time on this beyond the following answer. I use you as an excuse but the answer is addressed to all those interested in the subject.

Obviously I don't know how much data is being loaded into R&C. I don't work at Insomniac. But I have enough experience to get an idea that they are more than 2.4GB (which is the XSX SSD bandwidth limit).

You start from the false belief that XSX can load 100GB/s. That is not entirely "true" as you understand it. It is not like this. The bandwidth is 2.4GB/s and at most, effectively, compressed you get an equivalent of 4.8GB/s. Equivalent. No more.

PS5 is designed to offer up to 22GB/s effective. And it would be necessary to explain some peculiarities of PS5 for you to understand the "why", and since I cannot explain the "why" I accept the fact that you could not believe it. It is not your fault not having access to these peculiarities.

If you still want to give for certain the interested claims about the 100GB of XSX then you could also say that on PS5 they are 458GB. And surely you must also believe the 600 "megas" of Movistar (telephone company). I do not know if this happens in all countries, but I suppose that this example will only be understood by those residents in Spain. I think it doesn't take much explanation in this regard. It is not reality. In the case of data, equivalences are one thing and actual bandwidth is another. There's no more.

Now the question I ask. Do you think R&C is loading more than 2.4 or 4.8 GB of data? And the second question. At what speed do you think XSX can do it in practice from the time it leaves the SSD until it reaches the screen? And not to do it once in a specific place but to be able to do it at any time several times and in different areas with different assets.

As I said in my first speech about it, I'm not saying that XSX can't deliver that quality. I'm just saying that XSX cannot do R&C as it is intended. It would have to be done differently. And you as a user should care little about how they achieve it while it is achieved. But in no case it would not be done in the way that PS5 can.

And assuming that the one loaded is less than 4.8, assets prepared specifically for XSX, texture compression, geometry optimization, etc. would have to be readjusted (I will not explain why).

And assuming that the loaded is less than 2.4 then we could start talking about comparisons.

Do you think R&C loads less than 2.4GB/s?

In any case, if these explanations do not help you either, I cannot say more. I respect your opinions, but sometimes they are not realistic in one direction or the other. PS5 does not have 12TF. And XSX does not have the PS5 data management system. The XSX GPU has over 15% more theoretical gross power (albeit at a slower speed, and speed is essential and transcendent for some tasks). The PS5 data management system on the other hand is in practice around 5 times better than that of XSX in the worst case scenario. And about 9 times better than XSX in the best possible scenario for PS5. And on average, with XSX at the maximum capacity with compression and PS5 at the minimum without compression PS5 continues to manage twice as much data as XSX in its most idyllic not constant moments.

It would be interesting to start neglecting the argument that the PS5 SSD will bring no benefit.

XSX has a GPU with superior theoretical raw power. That's where it all ends. What was shown in the presentation of PS5 does not do justice to what these machines can do (both) but you have to start accepting the limitations of each one. It's nice to have a long penis, but sometimes it's better to have it a little shorter but much fatter. It could offer you a more satisfying experience in the long run (or not, according to everyone's tastes, of course).

It would be very debatable whether or not it is necessary to use, for example, 8K textures instead of 4K textures, it would be legitimately debatable. But the reality is that the volume of data managed by PS5 cannot be managed by XSX, nor can a home PC. At the beginning of generation, surely what you see on screen will make you think that this difference does not have relevance, but at the end of generation you will realize the relevance that it has. As long as you can believe or not believe, you are in all your rights, I only expose what there is. Neither pay me one, nor pay me another, my only interest is VR with respect to hardware and games in general with respect to software, whatever the platform. And I think that I have been quite critical regarding the games presented by Sony, perhaps you have missed it.

I will also tell you that I have not created the hardware, I only use it, and internally there are many things that I do not fully understand, but I will analyze the results. Still I know that there are many people around here that if they had the data on their screen they could say better than me how it works and its limitations (like other coworkers). But unfortunately I cannot offer you this information.

Cheers
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I found this a very interesting post from another thread.

Especially this bit...

'The PS5 data management system on the other hand is in practice around 5 times better than that of XSX in the worst case scenario. And about 9 times better than XSX in the best possible scenario for PS5. And on average, with XSX at the maximum capacity with compression and PS5 at the minimum without compression PS5 continues to manage twice as much data as XSX in its most idyllic not constant moments.'
 
T-Cake

T-Cake

Member
What's everyone's feelings about current gen titles getting patched for next-gen consoles? Are we expecting a small handful or more? I'm trying to think back when the mid-gen consoles launched, it took until the Xbox One X before some big games, like The Witcher 3 and Doom got upgraded.

Is it worth it for developers to go back and revisit old games or just leave them to backwards compatibility? It would be nice if some got the 4K60/RT treatment. I can only think of Gears 5 that has been confirmed. (I'm not talking about titles yet to be released.)
 
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Bonsaibäumchen

Bonsaibäumchen

Member
T-Cake said:
What's everyone's feelings about current gen titles getting patched for next-gen consoles? Are we expecting a small handful or more? I'm trying to think back when the mid-gen consoles launched, it took until the Xbox One X before some big games, like The Witcher 3 and Doom got upgraded.

Is it worth it for developers to go back and revisit old games or just leave them to backwards compatibility? It would be nice if some got the 4K60/RT treatment. I can only think of Gears 5 that has been confirmed. (I'm not talking about titles yet to be released.)
Click to expand...
I would expect patches for better graphics/performance for first party titles on both plattforms and CDPR.
I don't think we will see any mentionable backcompatibility patches from 3rd party/multiplattform devs.
 
Pantz

Pantz

Member
T-Cake said:
What's everyone's feelings about current gen titles getting patched for next-gen consoles? Are we expecting a small handful or more? I'm trying to think back when the mid-gen consoles launched, it took until the Xbox One X before some big games, like The Witcher 3 and Doom got upgraded.

Is it worth it for developers to go back and revisit old games or just leave them to backwards compatibility? It would be nice if some got the 4K60/RT treatment. I can only think of Gears 5 that has been confirmed. (I'm not talking about titles yet to be released.)
Click to expand...

Depends what you're looking for. The wording wasn't exactly clear but Microsoft made it sound like the backwards compatibility team could possibly do this work themselves without getting the developers involved. It would be cool if developers put in some extra work to give them even more of a boost. There wasn't too many that went back to previously released titles before the Xbox One X but maybe there would be more wanting to get their games to be pseudo part of the new consoles launch games.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Lunatic_Gamer said:


Huge if true.
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Should we believe the "legit-ish insider" or the HEAD OF XBOX STUDIOS?

“because it is just a great example of the kind of game that we’re looking for from the studios that we’ve acquired recently- which are, they’re not going to be 90 hour AAA games. But what they are going to be are things that are super well crafted, that will have as close to AAA production values as we can get. But we’re going to scope them so they can be done well by a smaller studio.” - Matt Booty.

gamingbolt.com

We Want Ninja Theory To Keep Making Small-Scope Well-Made Games like Hellblade – Microsoft

gamingbolt.com gamingbolt.com

Too much dreaming.🤦‍♂️
 
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Tripolygon

Tripolygon

Banned
MasterCornholio said:
So in short does it mean that the PS5 has the equivalent of BCpak?
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Essentially, BCPack is a way to compress BCn just like Oodle Texture. This is what i said a couple of months back.

1 - This BCx he is talking about is a GPU texture compression format. BC stands for Block compression and the x is a number signifying type of format, its goes 1 to 7. All GPUs use this format.

2 - Why would he assume Sony would't ship really well optimized RDO encoders?
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In response to this.
 
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Great Hair

Great Hair

Banned
Crimson_Fate said:
I can't imagine studios pumping out games every few months and actually being quality titles.
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It´s impossible. It takes up to 5 years for a Witcher 3 type game ... and if they plan on releasing W3 or similar games every month, how many employees do they have, need?

Add costs of $50 to $200mill. per project and its a commercial death sentence.

I do wonder, why do they have to counter every "Pro" Sony news ... two insiders claimed the same day that MS had big guns ready for their july event. And now this bird shows up out of nowhere and tomorrow Aaron gonna start to pre-hype for the july event.
 
Tripolygon

Tripolygon

Banned
Bo_Hazem said:
Sweet! So we should expect even faster average compressed data transfer higher than 9Gb/s. :messenger_ok:
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That's where the 22GB/s capability of the compression block comes in. Sony did not put it there just for giggles. And like i've been saying it is not for 'rare' occasions like some people have been trying to say. Mark Cerny said "if the data compresses really well".
 
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Gamernyc78

Gamernyc78

Banned
MasterCornholio said:
"Oodle Texture can make high visual quality encodings that are 20-50% smaller."

Oodle Texture Compression

RAD Game Tools' web page. RAD makes Bink Video, the Telemetry Performance Visualization System, and Oodle Data Compression - all popular video game middleware.
www.radgametools.com www.radgametools.com
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I and most of us have been saying it just like dx12 Sony always comes out with a response that is similar or better in API or features. Ppl never learn, that bpac shit would not be a game changer. Sony has some of the best software ppl and engineers. Thy won't give up tht leverage to Xbox 😁

Expect this to be the truth 🔥🔥🔥💯💯
 
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Gamernyc78

Gamernyc78

Banned
Bo_Hazem said:






Indeed! It actually already hits 20Gb/s by the way, but occasionally, just like Cerny said. Now it should hit that more often, I guess.
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Bro I'm so fucking excited for this game and I'm not the biggest Ratchet fan although I enjoy them. But idk seeing tht presentation/those graphics the other day and hearing this and those portal world transitions. This game is going to be beautiful, next gen, fun!!!! I can't fucking wait!!!!

I think this up coming gen is going to be even more special than the rest with the sexy, advanced hardware, the best controller and tons of features and games we are accustomed to have but better!!!
 
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Wraith Phantom

Wraith Phantom

Member
TGO said:
source.gif

I call that a downgrade
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Maybe. This is cut content. Maybe Marvel or Sony took that out of the game. Because a good superhero is just straight up vandalising a cafe without chasing a villain. What reason does Spiderman have breaking a window in a cafe. Doesn't make sense. SPidey is not even chasing anyone in the store.

Maybe running into stores got taken out of final build. Because of world limitations. If you actually played the game there are way better looking scenes than this loop.
 
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