Support NeoGAF

[THE:MILKMAN]

Its so blatantly obvious why they would. Create a false sense of safety in Sony's mind to hopefully induce them into charging more than MS plans to charge,

To me that sounds silly but going along with this, what if both dig their heels in and stubbornly refuse to go first on pricing? Do I get the consoles for free when neither has a price on launch day!?

One of them has to "go first".

 

[Knitted Knight]

Nobody is confused by "discless nature" in gaming products lol. This isn't 1999.

You underestimate casuals.

 

[Entroyp]

So $199?? Day one if that’s true.

 

[lastmessiah]

You underestimate casuals.

You mean the people who play on tablets and phones? They must be so confused trying to jam their discs in there.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

History repeats itself. I don't expect anything different

The Original Xbox One Model Is Officially Discontinued

Microsoft is no longer manufacturing the console; focusing now on Xbox One S and Xbox One X.

www.gamespot.com

They'll stop production on the One S and One X when Series X / Lockheart hit shelves. Any left over stock will be clearenced out to make room for the new consoles.

The Xbox One will be removed from the market. No need for it if the XSX and Lockhart can play all of the games. That hardware won't exist anymore.

Maybe, they did the same with the OG xbox > 360. We'll soon see

 

[NickFire]

To me that sounds silly but going along with this, what if both dig their heels in and stubbornly refuse to go first on pricing? Do I get the consoles for free when neither has a price on launch day!?

One of them has to "go first".

I wish.

But seriously, one of them will go first eventually. Frankly, I'm shocked no one has yet. Although I get why MS would try to induce Sony to a higher price, my gut says neither company is playing the game that they want each other to play.

 

[jshackles]

To me that sounds silly but going along with this, what if both dig their heels in and stubbornly refuse to go first on pricing? Do I get the consoles for free when neither has a price on launch day!?

One of them has to "go first".

Eventually it will absolutely come down to the wire. Promotional materials will need to be designed / printed / distributed to retail stores and this pipeline usually takes weeks/months.

Of course, there is nothing stopping one of the two from announcing the price, the other coming in cheaper, and the first one reversing course and lowering their price - except maybe "mindshare". In the past, Xbox has been very successful in doing this with other means, like retailer specific gift card promos.

 

[CrustyBritches]

I think for the tech consoles are getting that $499 is an understandable price point for the premium models. The manufacturer's cost for a UHD BDROM drive is around $30, I doubt that puts PS5 SAD at $399. $449-479 makes more sense. NovaMonbasa, the guy who leaked the Anaconda/Lockhart specs in Jan. 2019 said that MS was aiming for $499/$249, respectively. I'm not familiar with eastmen, but what he's saying is pretty much just referencing a 1 1/2yr-old leak.

So my guess is: XSX = $499, PS5 = $499, PS5 SAD = $449/$479, XSS = $249/$299.

 

[ManaByte]

Maybe, they did the same with the OG xbox > 360. We'll soon see

They also removed the OG Xbox One as soon as the S was released.

 

[TheAssist]

Maybe they just bundle the console with gamepass like so many people suspected back with the Xbox one. Buy it for 300 or so and also subscribe for 48 months. I could see that.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

They also removed the OG Xbox One as soon as the S was released.

I saw that in Jshackles quote, I didn't know they had done that. It was a good move because it was a piece of shit. They should have ditched the S and made the Xbonex have a digital version as well.

It's why I don't get the lockhart shit. The X is actually a good piece of kit, I can see it running some next gen games at 1080p maybe even 60fps.

 

[Knitted Knight]

You mean the people who play on tablets and phones? They must be so confused trying to jam their discs in there.

No. The mom, pops and grandparents buying consoles for children and teens.

 

[DaGwaphics]

I saw that in Jshackles quote, I didn't know they had done that. It was a good move because it was a piece of shit. They should have ditched the S and made the Xbonex have a digital version as well.

It's why I don't get the lockhart shit. The X is actually a good piece of kit, I can see it running some next gen games at 1080p maybe even 60fps.

Those Jaguar cores, nothing can save those.

 

[ManaByte]

I saw that in Jshackles quote, I didn't know they had done that. It was a good move because it was a piece of shit. They should have ditched the S and made the Xbonex have a digital version as well.

It's why I don't get the lockhart shit. The X is actually a good piece of kit, I can see it running some next gen games at 1080p maybe even 60fps.

Because the X is still running a low-rent Jaguar processor.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Those Jaguar cores, nothing can save those.

Because the X is still running a low-rent Jaguar processor.

Good points

So the MS strategy looks like XSX is the next gen console, Lockhart is for people who are stuck on current gen, who Microsoft want to boot up the arse to move them to next gen?

Thanks for helping me talk that out. It does make more sense now

 

[Vawn]

So $199?? Day one if that’s true.

Even if it's 4TF? I'll gladly spend the extra $200 if I decide to pick up an Xbox Series. But, I still need a few (console) exclusives I really want to play.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Good points

So the MS strategy looks like XSX is the next gen console, Lockhart is for people who are stuck on current gen, who Microsoft want to boot up the arse to move them to next gen?

Thanks for helping me talk that out. It does make more sense now

It's a soft boot though, they'll give you a year to get ready.

 

[Vognerful]

Spencer already basically said they won't be the highest priced system.

499.98. Called it here first.

 

[DarkMage619]

Feel free to believe whatever you'd like, but telling you now with 100% certainty that there isn't going to be a $100 difference between the XSX and Lockhart.

You can believe whatever you want too but there is no way the PS5 will sell for $399 but the XSX will sell for $499. If the XSS comes out it will be cheaper than both the PS5 and the XSS and $100 less isn't unreasonable. How much more is the X1X over the X1S? Less than $100?

 

[Mochilador]

Shit, if that's really true then they are not fucking around.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

It's a soft boot though, they'll give you a year to get ready.

I never understood that. Let's start a new generation, 7 years after the old generation, then give people another year

 

[lastmessiah]

I never understood that. Let's start a new generation, 7 years after the old generation, then give people another year

It's why console gaming has been pretty lame for a while now, and I can't wait until cloud becomes viable so everyone can move past this.

 

[DaGwaphics]

I never understood that. Let's start a new generation, 7 years after the old generation, then give people another year

When consoles were just about games, things were different. Now that MS has 10m GP subscribers that they'd like to hang on to, they will try and be flexible. A service quickly loses its appeal if everything new is no longer for you.

 

[Walter Matthau]

Sony and Microsoft are playing chicken with pricing right now.

My guess is $500/$300 for XBSX/XBSS if Microsoft is forced to go first.

$200 is less than current MSRP for Xbox One SAD. No way the Series S comes close to launching at that price.

 

[mckmas8808]

Didnt phil come out and say (I know, he says ALOT) he doesnt care if you buy an xbox this year? Does that sound like a 400/200 dollar product to you?

Not it doesn't at all. I think some here are getting too excited. Unless we believe Phil is doing 11th dimension chess and is using Inception techniques to get our hopes down for high next-gen sells. Only to surprise us with a $250 or less next-gen system.

 

[baphomet]

You can believe whatever you want too but there is no way the PS5 will sell for $399 but the XSX will sell for $499. If the XSS comes out it will be cheaper than both the PS5 and the XSS and $100 less isn't unreasonable. How much more is the X1X over the X1S? Less than $100?

Youre going to be very disappointed if you think you're getting an XSX for less than $499.

The X1X is discontinued. It's price is irrelevant.

 

[DarkMage619]

Youre going to be very disappointed if you think you're getting an XSX for less than $499.

The X1X is discontinued. It's price is irrelevant.

It will be less than $499 if the PS5 is.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Youre going to be very disappointed if you think you're getting an XSX for less than $499.

The X1X is discontinued. It's price is irrelevant.

I that true?

 

[Joshmyersbv]

I find it hard to believe that a console MS is marketing to be the most powerful to date is going to be around $400. Then would the PS5 be cheaper because it's a less powerful console?

 

[lastmessiah]

I find it hard to believe that a console MS is marketing to be the most powerful to date is going to be around $400. Then would the PS5 be cheaper because it's a less powerful console?

Even though the PS5 has less raw compute power, it has expensive components like much buzzed-about SSD and the 3D audio stuff. They won't be cheap to produce and I can't see them being under $500 no matter what MS does.

 

[Joshmyersbv]

Even though the PS5 has less raw compute power, it has expensive components like much buzzed-about SSD and the 3D audio stuff. They won't be cheap to produce and I can't see them being under $500 no matter what MS does.

Yeah I'm thinking there going to be $500-$600.

 

[LarknThe4th]

I wonder if it will actually look like this fan-made design:

It would be like Microsoft's sophisticated take on the GameCube.

I know its not likely but I would love a MicroCube!!

 

[jshackles]

I wonder if it will actually look like this fan-made design:

It would be like Microsoft's sophisticated take on the GameCube.

 

[Breakage]

I know its not likely but I would love a MicroCube!!

It's a rare instance where a fan-made design looks good.

 

[Dabaus]

What inside information or news ahead of time has this eastmen fellow given us before?

 

[Investor9872]

BOMs are often exaggerated or simply can't be that accurate for obvious reasons. As for gamers on forums we tend to get wowed by specs and have what I like to call 'Jurassic Park' moments! Do you remember the 8GB GDDR5 announcement for PS4? What were the first responses to that?

I actually think the BOMs for PS5 and XSX are lower than most might think. Specifically I think the cost of the SSDs are exaggerated.

If what you say is true, and I don't know if it is, and that the SSD estimated BOMs are exaggerated, then we should see the 2X storage option at the PS5's launch.

 

[Craig of War]

This is The Mic drop if true 200 dollar Next Gen console in this terrible economy

 

[Investor9872]

If Microsoft comes in with a console that's at or nearly 1/3rd the price of the competition, even if it's limited to only 1080p game play, it's going to absolutely steal sales from Sony. Add on to that the value proposition of Game Pass / XCloud and I could see Microsoft becoming the clear winner here.

I believe you that if MS does come out at or nearly 1/3 of the price of the PS5, then the XSX will be the clear early winner during the initial 18 months or so of launch. But I was rebutting the fact from another poster that said the PS5 will be DOA. It won't be dead, it will be close, and will end outselling the XSX in the end (we're talking within your scenario here).

The fact of the matter is that the PS5 will win this gen, and it will be all due to the shear number of AAA games that the PS5 will have. And here is another thing, Sony does NOT want MS's game division to die off. It is in Sony's best interests to have a healthy competition with the XB, and even the Nintendo Switch. For one, a good competition will give rise to new technology faster, and Sony is already collaborating with MS in regards to their Azure technology. Second, if Nintendo and MS's XB divisions die off, a lot of developers will be out of business, and indie devs will not be able to thrive on just one console platform and the PCs. Sony knows this, and they would want both MS and Nintendo to thrive, and rightly so.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

If what you say is true, and I don't know if it is, and that the SSD estimated BOMs are exaggerated, then we should see the 2X storage option at the PS5's launch.

Well I mean the Bloomberg article had a graph showing the SSD for both consoles being $150 alone. That made zero sense when the same reporter has said the BOM for the PS5 is $450 with Sony pushing to lower it. This isn't to say the SSD is cheap as such but I would definitely say it is closer to $50 than $150.

For PS5's SSD I've wondered whether the 12 chips it needs (plus custom controller) would be required for the entire gen given it is 12 channel? If it can't in a later iteration be cost reduced to say 6 chips/channels or whatever then they could negotiate quite a good deal on 12 chips of quite low spec 3D NAND (533MT/s?) for a 7 year console cycle. This would be ~1.3 billion chips (plus another ~100+ million flash controller chips).

I think they could get a decent contract price here especially if the supplier is Samsung and they also have 16GB of RAM from them too....

 

[godhandiscen]

I still doubt this console is a reality. Microsoft would get sued to oblivion for dubious advertising tactics that confused the customers. Months parroting the strongest next-gen console mantra, and then releasing a product that is next-gen but inferior to the competition.

 

[DarkMage619]

I still doubt this console is a reality. Microsoft would get sued to oblivion for dubious advertising tactics that confused the customers. Months parroting the strongest next-gen console mantra, and then releasing a product that is next-gen but inferior to the competition.

Are you serious? MS says the XSX is the most powerful console. Just because they sell other products doesn't make that any less true. If a consumer doesn't get that that is the consumers fault. MS has been up front on what the XSX is and what it can do.

 

[baphomet]

I still doubt this console is a reality. Microsoft would get sued to oblivion for dubious advertising tactics that confused the customers. Months parroting the strongest next-gen console mantra, and then releasing a product that is next-gen but inferior to the competition.

That's not how it works. Everything they've said is related to the Series X.

 

[J____Av]

If that's true then PS5 for more than $400 is DoA. Unless XsX is $600 console.

Lets not kid ourselves. The PS5 could be 800 bucks and still probably beat Xbox next gen. The Xbox brand is the lowest its been in years

 

[Bladed Thesis]

BOMs are often exaggerated or simply can't be that accurate for obvious reasons. As for gamers on forums we tend to get wowed by specs and have what I like to call 'Jurassic Park' moments! Do you remember the 8GB GDDR5 announcement for PS4? What were the first responses to that?

I actually think the BOMs for PS5 and XSX are lower than most might think. Specifically I think the cost of the SSDs are exaggerated.

> SSD costs are exaggerated
> SSD has groundbreaking tech that current SSDs on PCs can't compete with

Pick one

 

[JLB]

Lets not kid ourselves. The PS5 could be 800 bucks and still probably beat Xbox next gen. The Xbox brand is the lowest its been in years

nah, if ps5 is 800 it will blow. Brand loyalty is a thing, but to a given extent.
Also, xbox was selling in us less than 60k units x month in 2014. Its not in 2008 position, but xbox is doing better.

 

[oldergamer]

It still sounds like fairy tale stuff.
MS had lost so much money with the XBox in the early years, that I am not even sure if they ever broke even (a lot of the money from the 360 era was spent on the RRoD). So XBox division going up to MS and saying, hey how about we lose some serious money now? Maybe it pays of, maybe it doesnt.

People seem to think that subscription models turn around a lot of money when it really doesnt. Its super low margin, which is why only the biggest players get in. I dont think gamepass is making them money right now, its way too cheap and not enough people have it. Yes 10 Millions sound like a lot, but its nothing compared to Spotify, Amazon Prime, Netflix, or even Disney plus. Also music, TV shows and movies are arguably easier, faster and cheaper to produce.
Plus they are losing money from regular sales and licensing and may lose some 3rd publisher support. All while HEAVILY subsidizing a console?
Their subscriber numbers need to be in the hundreds of millions for that. I dont know if the brand is strong enough for that.
I dont know, maybe they want Xbox to be the windows of gaming or something, we'll see. But I find is highly unrealistic atm.

Man like almost everything you said is wrong.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

> SSD costs are exaggerated
> SSD has groundbreaking tech that current SSDs on PCs can't compete with

Pick one

See I don't see PS5 or XSX has having groundbreaking tech. They are just being smart with current tech.

PS5 traded more CUs for integrating I/O hardware into the APU and uses many more than usual chips to get the 5.5GB/s headline figure.

IMO there is nothing amazing in these consoles, just very smartly designed.

That so many think these consoles have amazing alien tech and specs shows the marketing works!

 

[Sw0pDiller]

My prediction: Ps5 digital will be 399 based in the Bloomberg reports that mentioned ps5 bom to be 450. Sony could take a little loss on that because psn sales make up for it. Plus normal ps5 can be 499 and make them money. To further even out the losses made on the digital only ski.

Ms want to undercut that and tries to be 449 or maybe even 399 if they are willing to take that kind of losses. You must calculate that selling Xbsx at a 50 dollar loss per unit it will cost Ms and extra 20*7milion= 140 million dollar loss in the first year. That's a lot of gamepass memberships to sell to make that up. Estimated him for Xbsx was 470 dollar. So with only one sku in the series x dept and trying to match ps5 price you will be looking at allmost a half billion dollar loss. 70*7milion units= 490 milion dollar. That's not something that will go down easy.

 

[Dolomite]

I really don't think this is the case, and I think it's going to really fucking confuse a lot of mainstream consumers.

Use RE8 as an example. Rumour has it that it's being ditched for Xbox One and PS4 because it's too much to handle - even on the official website, there is no mention of those consoles. Seems reasonable. Big new next gen release.

So, it's too powerful to run on an X1X, a beefy £400 machine, but it's going to run on Lockhart..? Is Lockhart more powerful than an X1X but it's still going to be a cheap budget model? What happens to the value of X1X, does it plummet? Are X1X owners about to get royally screwed in the pooch? Will there be an upgrade program?

It's all so confusing. MS can't release more info fast enough.

The 1X1 is is 299 now and ealry Lockhart rumors matched it at at least as powerful plus bells and whistles

 

[Bladed Thesis]

See I don't see PS5 or XSX has having groundbreaking tech. They are just being smart with current tech.

PS5 traded more CUs for integrating I/O hardware into the APU and uses many more than usual chips to get the 5.5GB/s headline figure.

IMO there is nothing amazing in these consoles, just very smartly designed.

That so many think these consoles have amazing alien tech and specs shows the marketing works!

I mean, the Sony SSD on paper is something never seen before in the SSD market. That is groundbreaking.

Because you can explain how it works after seeing Sony explain how it works doesn't mean it is not groundbreaking.

It means you watched their video explaining how something NEVER DONE BEFORE was going to be done now.

Then you saw the speeds. Again. NEVER DONE BEFORE until they told you how they were going to do it.

That's kind of what groundbreaking means......