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[Wraith Phantom]

Maybe they will make XSX DE

Im on a cooking break from TLOU2. But I don't think they can.Anytime soon. Those 52 CU's are not cheap. I think they have already committed to 4TF device.That was always their plan. All the Xbox "insiders" were talking about lockhart being 4TF from January. Talking about hitting Playstation with 2 price points. Scaling games up & down the hardware rubbish.

I think xbox knew another PS box was coming. But I don't think they saw another 10TF box coming or being shown at the event.

I think they really settled for 4TF box. There was suppose to be a june event about "xboxing" its was supposed to be "lockhart"/Series S reveal. But after that PS5 event. Where's the xbox show. Even after Greenberg was saying June event will happen. Wheres the show??

I think that PS5 DE did damage. We would of seen the lockhart by now. Its looking like the 52 Cu's came at a heavy cost.

 

[DaGwaphics]

I wasn't aware that MS had ever announced a showcase in June. Could you point me in the direction of that tweet.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Doubt it.

Can't see why they would think it would be a 400$ box then.

 

[Neo Blaster]

We're 5 months away all. Just 5 months. I am genuinely surprised we haven't seen more games yet.

Why do everybody forget the pandemic delayed everything?

 

[Mod of War]

imagine being a big man but a console warrior loser

Imagine baiting just to illicit a response so you can come back with more console warring.

Next stop are site bans, not just thread bans and warnings. This goes for everyone.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Can't see why they would think it would be a 400$ box then.

When you look at the components, it never was that unrealistic of a price point. They could have hit $400 with the base sku, they could still do that. But, they might opt to push the price up on the base just to push the digital version.

 

[Corndog]

Well looking at that CP2077 delay message - it says it’ll be playable on next gen consoles using BC mode and will get some improvements while we wait for the “real” next gen patch.

That’s basically confirming PS5 has the capability to improve PS4 games. The only question now is whether that’ll be for the whole 4000 odd game library or just for games built more recently.

I thought all games launched after July have to run on ps5? So wouldn’t it run natively?

 

[Corndog]

Retailers do not get 15%.

When the PS4/XBO launched, GameStop and Best Buy saw about $5-7 profits each console.

I could find out when they launch but I would not want to get in trouble.

 

[T-Cake]

I wasn't aware that MS had ever announced a showcase in June. Could you point me in the direction of that tweet.

It wasn't a showcase, it was an "event" - they were supposedly holding an "event" every month for the 20/20 thing until launch. Now it just seems they're going to play hokey-cokey with Sony.

May - Microsoft
June - Sony
July - Microsoft
August - Sony
...

 

[Jaguar Victory]

Why does everybody forget the pandemic delayed everything?

Probably because I'm working my ass off from home and assume everyone else in Corporate America is doing the same. I not only have my normal workload but also have to deal with all of the COVID staff deployment complications too. Leading teams, leading multiple projects, and then in the middle of it all handling issues like Suzy can't connect to the Virtual Desktop so we need to get IT involved and order her new equipment otherwise she'll be down for a while. Juggling all this stuff is intense sometimes because of the scale of operations.

Look, now I'm just venting about my job and need to jump on this conference call.

 

[aclar00]

Imagine charging $100 less not solely because of the blu ray drive, but because they can be more aggressive with the pricing by leveraging the loss per unit with the digital software sales lol

And as a reason to push digital under the guise of choice. Sony wouldnt be getting back at us for making them use factories to press the discs lol

 

[geordiemp]

Retailers do not get 15%.

When the PS4/XBO launched, GameStop and Best Buy saw about $5-7 profits each console.

Profits is not how much they get., profit = markup - costs overhead (staff and buildings)

Retailers add more than 5 bucks for their effort lol, thats not worth the shelf space.

At $399 Retail Sure Sony's Making A Loss On A PS 4 That Costs $381 To Build

I thought this was interesting: we've got the preliminary numbers on the build cost of Sony's new PS 4. And it looks like there's a narrow margin in there for the company, a small gap between the build cost and the retail price. That's what is being said at least [...]

www.forbes.com

 

[MasterCornholio]

hokey-cokey

 

[Corndog]

Profits is not how much they get., profit = markup - costs overhead (staff and buildings)

Retailers add more than 5 bucks for their effort lol, thats not worth the shelf space.

At $399 Retail Sure Sony's Making A Loss On A PS 4 That Costs $381 To Build

I thought this was interesting: we've got the preliminary numbers on the build cost of Sony's new PS 4. And it looks like there's a narrow margin in there for the company, a small gap between the build cost and the retail price. That's what is being said at least [...]

www.forbes.com

I have an idea what markup is on some things. Depends what it is. I’ve seen 300% markup and I’ve seen things sold at a loss.

 

[thurnishaleygw]

And as a reason to push digital under the guise of choice. Sony wouldnt be getting back at us for making them use factories to press the discs lol

Well, we are in 2020 after all. Physical media is slowly dying, as it should in many cases in an environmentally conscious world.

I love physical media, but is time to start letting go, in my opinion.

 

[Codexer]

 

[Bladed Thesis]

Profits is not how much they get., profit = markup - costs overhead (staff and buildings)

Retailers add more than 5 bucks for their effort lol, thats not worth the shelf space.

At $399 Retail Sure Sony's Making A Loss On A PS 4 That Costs $381 To Build

I thought this was interesting: we've got the preliminary numbers on the build cost of Sony's new PS 4. And it looks like there's a narrow margin in there for the company, a small gap between the build cost and the retail price. That's what is being said at least [...]

www.forbes.com

What are you talking about?

I literally SAT IN MEETINGS with corporate leadership where they discussed our return on the consoles.

Why do you think they push warranties (100% profit), accessories (30-40% profit), digital currency (about $4 per $15) and pre-ordering games at launch?

Edit:

To give an example, the attachment rate goal at launch for PS4/XBO was 10 of any combination of reserves/accessories/games/currency. The attachment rate goal for warranties on the consoles themselves was 50%. One year was like 69.99 and two years was 119.99. There were stores who sold several hundred consoles EACH DAY with +60% warranty attachment rates. I know, I had stores I knew who did it and won prizes.

 

[Wraith Phantom]

I wasn't aware that MS had ever announced a showcase in June. Could you point me in the direct of that tweet.

WAIT,WAIT. IM WRONG ON GREENBERG DATES. MY BAD!!!! He just clarified the actual event month of JULY. But the "xboxing event" was suppose to be xbox show in June. According to Jeff Grub & the rumours/reports/xbox insiders.

We then got into the June show getting delayed to august reports done buy multiple outlets (be it wrongly). And thats when Greenberg
re-confirmed the JULY month. But there were loads of report like this https://gamerant.com/xbox-event-delay-leak/.

After confirmation from Greenberg. Jeff grub removed the "xboxing" off the June summerfest day. That leaves ME to think
What happened to the June show?? Why did Jeffs list it if it wasn't real when everything else is accurate??

They ducked out of June. It was the right move. PS5 event & TLOU2. Got to be foolish to compete with that.

 

[MasterCornholio]

WAIT,WAIT. IM WRONG ON GREENBERG DATES. MY BAD!!!! He just clarified the actual event month of JULY. But the "xboxing event" was suppose to be xbox show in June. According to Jeff Grub & the rumours/reports/xbox insiders.

We then got into the June show getting delayed to august reports done buy multiple outlets (be it wrongly). And thats when Greenberg
re-confirmed the JULY month. But there were loads of report like this https://gamerant.com/xbox-event-delay-leak/.

After confirmation from Greenberg. Jeff grub removed the "xboxing" off the June summerfest day. That leaves ME to think
What happened to the June show?? Why did Jeffs list it if it wasn't real when everything else is accurate??

They ducked out of June

I'm guessing it was just an inside Xbox event and that content will be in the July show. I'm predicting that Lockhart will be revealed there.

As to why they backed out I can only think it had something to do with the PS5 reveal.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Probably because I'm working my ass off from home and assume everyone else in Corporate America is doing the same. I not only have my normal workload but also have to deal with all of the COVID staff deployment complications too. Leading teams, leading multiple projects, and then in the middle of it all handling issues like Suzy can't connect to the Virtual Desktop so we need to get IT involved and order her new equipment otherwise she'll be down for a while. Juggling all this stuff is intense sometimes because of the scale of operations.

Look, now I'm just venting about my job and need to jump on this conference call.

Looks like you've just provided the reason to why we haven't seen more games.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

Looks like you've just provided the reason to why we haven't seen more games.

But we're executing and delivering. Don't underestimate how fucking talented and driven game studio employees are. I'm sure they're busting their ass doing great work. I think it's more of a marketing/strategic decision to show less at this point.

 

[Codexer]

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

What percentage chance do we think MS is going to announce Series X price at the July event?

 

[McHuj]

this pic belongs in the cringe thread.

 

[geordiemp]

What are you talking about?

I literally SAT IN MEETINGS with corporate leadership where they discussed our return on the consoles.

Why do you think they push warranties (100% profit), accessories (30-40% profit), digital currency (about $4 per $15) and pre-ordering games at launch?

Edit:

To give an example, the attachment rate goal at launch for PS4/XBO was 10 of any combination of reserves/accessories/games/currency. The attachment rate goal for warranties on the consoles themselves was 50%. One year was like 69.99 and two years was 119.99. There were stores who sold several hundred consoles EACH DAY with +60% warranty attachment rates. I know, I had stores I knew who did it and won prizes.

I live in UK

 

[Neo Blaster]

But we're executing and delivering. Don't underestimate how fucking talented and driven game studio employees are. I'm sure they're busting their ass doing great work. I think it's more of a marketing/strategic decision to show less at this point.

Don't get me wrong, I know everybody is doing their best to cope with social distancing limitations.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

I live in UK

So replace the dollar sign with the pound for ease of understanding.

I mean shit, I like turtles.

 

[T-Cake]

What percentage chance do we think MS is going to announce Series X price at the July event?

I'm going with 75% but that would depend on Series S being revealed too. I don't think they'll name the X price until both models are on show.

 

[Codeblew]

... No, they don't.
Bcpack and Kraken are compression methods.
Oodle Texture is not a compression method, but facilitates compression.

No gzip and Kraken are compression methods that further compress BCn files. Oodle Texture and BCPack (come on man BC means Block Compression) arrange the texture data in a way that allows it to be compressed better. It can be lossless which result in less compression by gzip and Kracken or can be lossy which will allow for better compression at the expense of texture quality.

 

[Codeblew]

So the decompressor chip can't handle the decompression of oodle + Kraken alone?

Oodle (BCn) doesn't need to be decompressed from the decompression block since it can be read by the GPU in that format. It is better this way since it will take up less ram.

 

[Sinthor]

Not me I will never support an all digital future.

I buy sports titles every year and I dont care if I get $5 back its the idea to me of just not getting anything back on a digital purchase.

Plus when I play a single player game and beat it I never return to that game.

I will trade TLOU2 back in within a week or two of playing through it and someone else can get it even if its 2 dollars cheaper.

Plus I dont know how many used games I have bought over the years on disk.

Totally agree with this. All digital might be fine if you have a super fast, reliable internet connection (about have of the US alone doesn't have that) and you aren't worried about recovering any $$ from what you play and don't need.

In order to move the MARKET to an all digital model, I believe that A: Internet speeds and coverage would need to be substantially better than today and B: you will need some method of trading or trading in digital purchases. Without the second point you are truly eliminating a large section of the market. People who CAN'T AFFORD to buy new or at least a lot of new games and who DEPEND on those trade-ins to help them buy other new games! If those people either have to give up gaming or limit themselves to buying say only one title a year instead of the multiple they used to buy when they could also trade in, then the developers and manufacturers will make a substantial sum LESS than they do today. Not smart business.

Now, if the market just gradually shifts to where 90% or more of purchases are being made digitally and that remaining 10% represents a financial sum that companies feel they can do without...we might go fully digital. I don't see that happening for quite some time though.

And honestly, I don't worry about how much I buy and what I trade in. I realize I am VERY fortunate not to have to worry about that. But even so, I STILL like the flexibility of being able to digitally buy something I think I'm going to want to keep and/or replay a bunch but still be able to buy other titles new and used on disk so I can try them out. This makes me end up playing a lot more games that if I was stuck with having to commit to buy full price and never be able to trade in....I wouldn't be taking the chance on buying and playing them. I'm sure most people are similar or somewhere in between. That's why I think it will take a 90% or more shift in the market to have a real change be made as the new standard.

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

Totally agree with this. All digital might be fine if you have a super fast, reliable internet connection (about have of the US alone doesn't have that) and you aren't worried about recovering any $$ from what you play and don't need.

In order to move the MARKET to an all digital model, I believe that A: Internet speeds and coverage would need to be substantially better than today and B: you will need some method of trading or trading in digital purchases. Without the second point you are truly eliminating a large section of the market. People who CAN'T AFFORD to buy new or at least a lot of new games and who DEPEND on those trade-ins to help them buy other new games! If those people either have to give up gaming or limit themselves to buying say only one title a year instead of the multiple they used to buy when they could also trade in, then the developers and manufacturers will make a substantial sum LESS than they do today. Not smart business.

Now, if the market just gradually shifts to where 90% or more of purchases are being made digitally and that remaining 10% represents a financial sum that companies feel they can do without...we might go fully digital. I don't see that happening for quite some time though.

And honestly, I don't worry about how much I buy and what I trade in. I realize I am VERY fortunate not to have to worry about that. But even so, I STILL like the flexibility of being able to digitally buy something I think I'm going to want to keep and/or replay a bunch but still be able to buy other titles new and used on disk so I can try them out. This makes me end up playing a lot more games that if I was stuck with having to commit to buy full price and never be able to trade in....I wouldn't be taking the chance on buying and playing them. I'm sure most people are similar or somewhere in between. That's why I think it will take a 90% or more shift in the market to have a real change be made as the new standard.

I suppose this could all be solved with faster internet speeds (we should all be moving in that direction anyway) and regarding paying full price, you'll always pay full price for games at launch even if they are on physical media. I must have about 300+ games on my ps4 digital library and the vast majority were definitely bought at a significant discount or included in the ps plus offer. Add to that games as subscription like ps plus or game pass and problem solved.

I suspect digital already accounts for the majority of games sales anyway. Pc has been only digital for many years and you don't see pc games complaining

 

[banjo5150]

I will buy the disc ver of the PS5, but mainly for my Bluray UHD collection. I pretty much buy all my games digital now. Has it been confirmed it will play 4K UHD Blurays?

 

[Sw0pDiller]

Too fucking funny. I don't get it.

Well, sony could just come out with a video and clear stuff up once and for all. Maybe doing with user interface unveal? To be honest I too feel that their messaging about ps4 bc is kinda inconsistent.

 

[Sinthor]

I suppose this could all be solved with faster internet speeds (we should all be moving in that direction anyway) and regarding paying full price, you'll always pay full price for games at launch even if they are on physical media. I must have about 300+ games on my ps4 digital library and the vast majority were definitely bought at a significant discount or included in the ps plus offer. Add to that games as subscription like ps plus or game pass and problem solved.

I suspect digital already accounts for the majority of games sales anyway. Pc has been only digital for many years and you don't see pc games complaining

I think you're missing something here. First, PC games have NOT gone all digital. You can still buy disk packages in stores and online. Amazon sells online codes AND the package with disk for Jedi : Fallen Order, for example.

Also, yes, you pay full price whether disk or digital, but keep in mind that lots of people DEPEND on using trade ins to help them afford buying MORE used or new games. If there wasn't a big market for the used games and trade-ins, GameStop would already be done and gone.

 

[ZeroFool]

I'm going with 75% but that would depend on Series S being revealed too. I don't think they'll name the X price until both models are on show.

Or maybe they have finally learned that Sony announces the price after. So we might see both companies playing cat and mouse on the prices? August should be drop dead date IMO to start preorders.

MS can put Lockhart on Kickstarter

*disclaimer - I like both products but I like being grumpy more. Always take my posts with a pinch of fun sarcasm, when I am serious I will.. Crap, I don't know, I need to think on it.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

but I thought that you dont care about back compatibility and you are not interested in games that are current gen, only next gen titles matter to you, you said it multiple times....make up your mind please

Did I say otherwise ? This only gives a bad sign on the other side that even multiplats aren't getting enough support. Gonna play all these on PS4, in case you didn't know we're still months away from next gen.

But going forward, I'm more than sure I'm not gonna have such a weird situation where multiplats don't get supported by PS5 in the future.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Totally agree with this. All digital might be fine if you have a super fast, reliable internet connection (about have of the US alone doesn't have that) and you aren't worried about recovering any $$ from what you play and don't need.

Even though I can check both criteria(I have an uncapped 120Mbps connection and like to keep my catalog, digital or physical), I'll go with the regular one, too much dependant on discs yet.

 

[Neo Blaster]

I will buy the disc ver of the PS5, but mainly for my Bluray UHD collection. I pretty much buy all my games digital now. Has it been confirmed it will play 4K UHD Blurays?

That media remote is a very good indicator for yes.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

TLOU2 is a wonderful game! Insane! Played like 6 hours so far, having a complete blast. Chose the Survivor difficulty and it's harder than real life to get bullets and resources which is ridiculous, changed the resources to moderate difficulty which makes way more sense. Imagine playing through barely using guns, even against armed enemies, then killing up to 5-6 armed enemies and you don't get a single bullet out of them! Before changing the difficulty down to moderate for resources I had many guns and didn't use any and killed a lot with a knife or bare-handed!

So yes, that's not realistic, that's trolling.

Minor problem is it's not giving me surround 7.1/5.1 channel sound, only 2.0 channel although I'm using PS4-certified Astro A40 with the mixer through optical audio. The gore is serious, and I like it, won't spoil even the simplest things, and don't waste your time by waiting for reviews or like playing it on PS5 as you're missing a lot of fun!

People waiting to play it on PS5 are really wasting their time! Go grab it now! I think 99% this is 2020 GOTY.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

TLOU2 is a wonderful game! Insane! Played like 6 hours so far, having a complete blast. Chose the Survivor difficulty and it's harder than real life to get bullets and resources which is ridiculous, changed the resources to moderate difficulty which makes way more sense. Imagine playing through barely using guns, even against armed enemies, then killing up to 5-6 armed enemies and you don't get a single bullet out of them! Before changing the difficulty down to moderate for resources I had many guns and didn't use any and killed a lot with a knife or bare-handed!

So yes, that's not realistic, that's trolling.

Minor problem is it's not giving me surround 7.1/5.1 channel sound, only 2.0 channel although I'm using PS4-certified Astro A40 with the mixer through optical audio. The gore is serious, and I like it, won't spoil even the simplest things, and don't waste your time by waiting for reviews or like playing it on PS5 as you're missing a lot of fun!

About six hours in myself, enjoy!

But besides that, this is the next-gen speculation thread. So wrong thread.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

About six hours in myself, enjoy!

But besides that, this is the next-gen speculation thread. So wrong thread.

Yup, some people are killing themselves waiting to play it on PS5 enhanced. Which I think it's wrong. Play what's in hand now, next gen will have its share of games.

 

[sircaw]

TLOU2 is a wonderful game! Insane! Played like 6 hours so far, having a complete blast. Chose the Survivor difficulty and it's harder than real life to get bullets and resources which is ridiculous, changed the resources to moderate difficulty which makes way more sense. Imagine playing through barely using guns, even against armed enemies, then killing up to 5-6 armed enemies and you don't get a single bullet out of them! Before changing the difficulty down to moderate for resources I had many guns and didn't use any and killed a lot with a knife or bare-handed!

So yes, that's not realistic, that's trolling.

Minor problem is it's not giving me surround 7.1/5.1 channel sound, only 2.0 channel although I'm using PS4-certified Astro A40 with the mixer through optical audio. The gore is serious, and I like it, won't spoil even the simplest things, and don't waste your time by waiting for reviews or like playing it on PS5 as you're missing a lot of fun!

DOG KILLER DIE

sounds awesome so far

 

[Gamerguy84]

Ill buy whatever I can get my hands on. Prefer disc but noticed the last few years Ive been all digital.

I have disc games of course but I also have two PS4 PROs that are in great shape. I actually have about every console (working) dating back to atari 2600.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

In my younger years I finished Final Fantasy IX in a single 26 hour session. I had no choice, I played on the PS2 but wasn’t aware I needed a PS1 memory card to save my game. I manned up and beat it in a single session. My eyes hurt for 2 days!

I played MGS5 on release for 51 hours and skipped 2 work days, got a salary cut later on . But didn't finish the game but my base was rank 1st around the world for like 2 weeks, after that it was a free fall to the thousands after spending 450 hours in the game, lol.

 

[thelastword]

TLOU2 is a wonderful game! Insane! Played like 6 hours so far, having a complete blast. Chose the Survivor difficulty and it's harder than real life to get bullets and resources which is ridiculous, changed the resources to moderate difficulty which makes way more sense. Imagine playing through barely using guns, even against armed enemies, then killing up to 5-6 armed enemies and you don't get a single bullet out of them! Before changing the difficulty down to moderate for resources I had many guns and didn't use any and killed a lot with a knife or bare-handed!

So yes, that's not realistic, that's trolling.

Minor problem is it's not giving me surround 7.1/5.1 channel sound, only 2.0 channel although I'm using PS4-certified Astro A40 with the mixer through optical audio. The gore is serious, and I like it, won't spoil even the simplest things, and don't waste your time by waiting for reviews or like playing it on PS5 as you're missing a lot of fun!

Exactly, play it now then replay it on PS5......So far amazing looking game, controls like a dream, stable 30fps.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Do you know where to find that first hour-preshow soundtrack excluding the stream? Like Spotify or something; wish I could save it somehow.

I would love to, might try my phone with shazam and see if something shows up later.

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

It’s not what he’s saying, and Oodle is a family of compression tools that includes Oodle Texture and Oodle Kraken, so “Oodle + Kraken” is a bit confusing.

There’s one tool (BC7Prep) that Oodle Texture also supports that if used can be decompressed on GPU on PS5 and CPU on other platforms currently.
This tool losslessly encodes a BC7 texture should that be required.
It’s way of getting a raw BC7 texture into GPU memory faster at the IO stage with the cost of some compute after it arrives.

The preferred path as seemingly stressed earlier in the chain of replies is that Oodle Texture leaves the file in a format that is read natively by the GPU with no decompression steps necessary.
This comes at the cost of lossy compression (as with BCPack) with the examples provided on RGT’s website showing the extent.

So will devs on both sides decide to go with the greater compression for a (very?) small visual difference.

Or will some want to make assets as clean as possible...

I've looked at the pics on rad site, couldn't see much difference but they were small pics and maybe might show up more on a bigger screen?

I suppose either way now the option is there for devs.

 

[ToadMan]

Im on a cooking break from TLOU2. But I don't think they can.Anytime soon. Those 52 CU's are not cheap. I think they have already committed to 4TF device.That was always their plan. All the Xbox "insiders" were talking about lockhart being 4TF from January. Talking about hitting Playstation with 2 price points. Scaling games up & down the hardware rubbish.

I think xbox knew another PS box was coming. But I don't think they saw another 10TF box coming or being shown at the event.

I think they really settled for 4TF box. There was suppose to be a june event about "xboxing" its was supposed to be "lockhart"/Series S reveal. But after that PS5 event. Where's the xbox show. Even after Greenberg was saying June event will happen. Wheres the show??

I think that PS5 DE did damage. We would of seen the lockhart by now. Its looking like the 52 Cu's came at a heavy cost.

Well, if that’s accurate then that would explain why Lockhart hasn’t been mentioned. Even though the release is suppose to be soon.

I assume here that MS would’ve gotten wind of the DE model at least a month before the public.

To be honest the Lockhart strategy never made any sense to me - it would just confuse purchasers and water down the impact of Xsex even more than the cross platform game line up is already.

Maybe if MS are worried by the DE they’ll just trash Lockhart or remodel it to an x1x slim next year.

I thought all games launched after July have to run on ps5? So wouldn’t it run natively?

Running yes. What hadn’t been confirmed until now was that games would get improved performance without additional dev work.

 

[kretos]