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[bitbydeath]

I'll go easy on you.

( I won't).

If I win I’m thinking a nice Harold Hide the Pain avatar for you.

 

[martino]

It's possible the idea is that it will come out in like 2 years, when MS essentially deprecates support for current Xbox One machines.

That might be why we haven't heard much about it. I think that's both confusing but makes some sense too. By 2020 I bet Lockhart actually COULD be a $200 machine. Just not sure how that works with dev support for the first 2 years of games.

But FWIW.. this IS it leaking.. and it's not the first leak of info about it.

I'm honestly hoping we haven't heard about it because MS is cancelling it lol

I mean a leak making it real (like a product unit)
Do see it like a cheap solution to try to save the boat ?
I don't get the strategy at all if this release after two years .

In the end i don't care since i'm not planning to play MS games on consoles but i don't see the danger of it (if cpu and ssd are good enought)
It seems to be PS fan concern because it's a huge treat in term of aggressive pricing and we know outside twisted realities people build on niche forum this is a defining factor for mass audiance success.

 

[Xander3116]

So if the xbox series S is what this rumour says it is then is the One X a better system?

 

[lastmessiah]

You guys who are concerned about Microsoft’s approach should contact the execs..,”No no you’re doing it all wrong guys! Back to the drawing board!”

 

[gamechanger87]

if it uses the same RDNA2 architecture it most likely will have RT hardware in every CU.
we know that AMD will release RNDA2 GPUs on the low end PC and Mobile sector that will lack the RT hardware completely, but let's assume that's not the case here.

if it still has RT acceleration that will absolutely be no issue.

if we look at how most games now handle RT effects like reflections, we see that they usually render these at 50% horizontal and vertical resolution (25% overall resolution)
a Lockhart game running at 1080p would basically run RT reflections at 540p, and on Series X where the game would run at 4K, the RT reflections instead would run at 1080p.
we also saw this in the early gameplay and trailer for GranTourismo during the PS5 reveal. there the game also ran at 4k with the reflections running at 50% on each axis.
and that's also how they work in Battlefield 5

so the RT performance needed if you lower the resolution from 4k+1080pRTR to 1080p+540pRTR also goes down by 75%

a 4TF RDNA2 gpu should therefore have no issue having RT effects that are scaled down to fit it's performance level.

Per Tom Warren, Lockhart will also support RT.

 

[gamechanger87]

So if the xbox series S is what this rumour says it is then is the One X a better system?

What?

6TF GCN does not equal 4TF Navi. Nor does Jaguar equal Ryzen, nor does SSD = HDD.

I'm so confused how a video game forum continues to ask these questions.

 

[IntentionalPun]

I mean a leak making it real (like a product unit)
Do see it like a cheap solution to try to save the boat ?
I don't get the strategy at all if this release after two years .

In the end i don't care since i'm not planning to play MS games on consoles but i don't see the danger of it (if cpu and ssd are good enought)
It seems to be PS fan concern because it's a huge treat in term of aggressive pricing and we know outside twisted realities people build on niche forum this is a defining factor for mass audiance success.

The only strategy that makes any sense is that it's a cheap solution. It has to be about price, otherwise it makes no sense. Maybe they don't expect it to make a big splash at launch at $300 but in 2 years when they can drop to $200 it will be a big value proposition. Or maybe they are hoping at $300 it's an option for Playstation gamers tempted by gamepass who didn't buy into XOX/XO because it will at least have SSD and likely will have some big benefits over XOX with load times and the like despite the weaker GPU.

If it was a streaming box they could do it at the ~$99 range, that's the only other theory people have and it's a bad theory lol. All you need in a streaming box is a good decoder chip and decent HTMI / WIFI / BT and the like.

 

[Jtibh]

At these specs how does this compare to xonex.

Given its rdna2 better cpu than the jaguar but really how much of a boost in performance do we get here compared to xonex and is this intended to replace xonex or is it an extension of the x family.

If this is the baseline for xsx games i dont see how we ever get full flex visuals from xsx.
Its one thing to have higher res and fps but i want true next gen games not current or cross gen at 4k 60.

And at 199hahahaha nooooooo this thing wont be less than 299 .

 

[Grinchy]

I don't know what anyone is worried about. Extreme xbox fans from neogaf.com tell me that having a low end system being a mandatory starting point for an entire generation won't hamper anything.

And if they say every game is easily scalable, it must be true.

 

[Goncas2]

7.5GB of usable memory is VERY bad news. That's only 2GB more than current gen base consoles. It will definitely hold games back.

 

[NullZ3r0]

As long as both machines are on the same next gen architecture games can easily be scaled. The problem is trying to get devs to make next gen games and then having to port those to other platforms.

 

[Nikana]

If I win I’m thinking a nice Harold Hide the Pain avatar for you.

You don't want to know what I have in store.

 

[gamechanger87]

At these specs how does this compare to xonex.

Given its rdna2 better cpu than the jaguar but really how much of a boost in performance do we get here compared to xonex and is this intended to replace xonex or is it an extension of the x family.

If this is the baseline for xsx games i dont see how we ever get full flex visuals from xsx.
Its one thing to have higher res and fps but i want true next gen games not current or cross gen at 4k 60.

And at 199hahahaha nooooooo this thing wont be less than 299 .

Leaps and bounds better.

One X targeted 4K. Thus its 6TF GCN pushed pixels to that. 4TF Navi is more powerful than a 6TF GCN and this will be targeting 1/4 of the pixels. Ignoring the arch benefits from Navi, think of what would happen on your computer if you targeted 1080p or 720p, you notice how you can significantly increase all the other settings?

For time eternity, graphics are made for the high end and scaled down. Games ship with 4k textures and scale downward. This will not change. Series X won't be using 1080p textures scaled up. It will go the other way.

The major drivers of gameplay design, CPU, SSD and fast ram will be the same. There will be no compromise on gameplay. You will just get worse graphics at lower res. The same thing PCs have done forever.

 

[WouldYouKindly]

I just dont understand whats the point? Who's the target audience? X is better? So why?

 

[Jigga117]

I couldn't imagine most people would want to be playing at 1080p for another generation. Not for these games that strive for realistic visuals.

There are still people rocking CRT and 90s rear projections. Nothing should be suprising.

 

[Insane Metal]

Same as PC. Use lower resolution textures.

So throwing out the window the benefits of a closed box to make the best use of its resources. Gotcha.

 

[gamechanger87]

7.5GB of usable memory is VERY bad news. That's only 2GB more than current gen base consoles. It will definitely hold games back.

Its 10GB total. 2.5 reserved 7.5 for games.

7.5GB is a ton at 1080P. Both PS5 and Series X are targeting 4k frame buffers with around 13.5GB of ram. 1080p is 1/4 of 4K.

The ram scales to its need. You don't need 16gbs for a frame buffer at 1080p.

 

[gamechanger87]

I just dont understand whats the point? Who's the target audience? X is better? So why?

Targeting a $250 console price point that neither PS5 or Series X will hit.

 

[Jigga117]

I just dont understand whats the point? Who's the target audience? X is better? So why?

same option why everyone doesn't rock a 2080Ti even on this forum

 

[SoloKingRobert]

One X is a 4K console, and has 9 GB of usable ram for games. Lockhart outputting at quarter resolution could do with less than that, especially when Velocity Arch is helping conserve texture memory with sampler feedback and using high speed paged approach.

Machine with slightly lowered CPU clocks (similar to PS5 CPU clocks), 512GB SSD, 4+TF GPU, 10 GB RAM could be around $200-250 while still be able to give a great next gen experience at lower resolutions compared to XSX. And with DLSS 2.0 type upscaling, it could rival or even outperform PS5.

Remember:

Xbox Series uses DirectML, its similar to DLSS 2.0 they just need to showcase it in August or July the advantages of DirectML.

 

[Nikana]

Its 10GB total. 2.5 reserved 7.5 for games.

7.5GB is a ton at 1080P. Both PS5 and Series X are targeting 4k frame buffers with around 12GB of ram. 1080p is 1/4 of 4K.

The ram scales to its need. You don't need 16gbs for a frame buffer at 1080p.

As well as an SSD for faster swapping with the RAM in general. 7.5 gigs a ton for 1080p.

 

[HarryKS]

What's the TERAFLOP equation?


XBOX 4:

52 CUs x 64 shaders per CU x 1.825 GHz x 2 instructions per clock = 12,147 gigaflops

XBOX 4 Redux:

4000 gigaflops.

So where's the give?

The resolution talk sounds a bit bizarre. It does not match.

 

[TheAmazingSpiderMan]

Lol at this rate No1 apart from the hardcore on these threads will be getting a series X.

 

[Jtibh]

Leaps and bounds better.

One X targeted 4K. Thus its 6TF GCN pushed pixels to that. 4TF Navi is more powerful than a 6TF GCN and this will be targeting 1/4 of the pixels. Ignoring the arch benefits from Navi, think of what would happen on your computer if you targeted 1080p or 720p, you notice how you can significantly increase all the other settings?

For time eternity, graphics are made for the high end and scaled down. Games ship with 4k textures and scale downward. This will not change. Series X won't be using 1080p textures scaled up. It will go the other way.

The major drivers of gameplay design, CPU, SSD and fast ram will be the same. There will be no compromise on gameplay. You will just get worse graphics at lower res. The same thing PCs have done forever.

Targeting max 1080 and lock it to that makes sence.


But still is this replacing xonex then?

 

[Goncas2]

Its 10GB total. 2.5 reserved 7.5 for games.

7.5GB is a ton at 1080P. Both PS5 and Series X are targeting 4k frame buffers with around 12GB of ram. 1080p is 1/4 of 4K.

The ram scales to its need. You don't need 16gbs for a frame buffer at 1080p.

It depends on the game and the game engines. For some games memory usage scales well with resolution, for others there's practically no change.

A quick google search shows that games like RDR2 and Gears 5 only use 1GB less of VRAM when going from 4k to 1080p. That's how the PS4 Pro managed to hit higher resolutions with just 0.5GB more of memory.

 

[EliTheIceMan]

Leaked Microsoft document hints at second next-gen Xbox




Maybe MS is aiming for 199$?

So are these guys haters? Or do they speak the truth

 

[kraspkibble]

if it's just for 1080p then that's more than enough. it'll sit somewhere between a PS4 Pro + XB1X and those consoles were designed for "4k"

this thing will be more than enough to play next gen games at 1080p.

 

[RaySoft]

People forget crysis.
If xbox first party do it this way there will be no problem.
We will have the answer with halo soon.
And if it's not showing that , then we can worry
(and i will the first to). For now they have benefit of the doubt.


Ps5 will be lead but not because of Lockhart.
And in an unlikely scenario where Lockhart make them in front of ps5 sales it's possible xsx would be lead downscaled on the two others.

I don't think so, simply because both Lockhart and XSX are part of a scalable platform already. PS5 is it's own static target. That's why I think PS5 will be lead dev platform regardless.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

I see no point in buying something so gimped.

 

[Jigga117]

So are these guys haters? Or do they speak the truth

Sound like he want to be the next Hiphopgamer with that fanboy shit.

 

[gamechanger87]

Targeting max 1080 and lock it to that makes sence.


But still is this replacing xonex then?

Yes. As of now MS is dumping all Xbox One X and S. They are clearing inventory and likely not making any more for a bit. It's why you will keep seeing sales. These two will replace those.

 

[GHG]

a slightly underclocked CPU speed. Love how you omit this word. This is clearly FUD and trolling.

 

[VincentMatts]

Unless this thing is at the very least, 150-200$ cheaper than the cheap ps5, it will be a wasted opportunity. This consoles price needs to be real cheap, or not even bother releasing it.

 

[RaySoft]

Yes. As of now MS is dumping all Xbox One X and S. They are clearing inventory and likely not making any more for a bit. It's why you will keep seeing sales. These two will replace those.

XSX... MS' SteamBox? ;-)
There's only two console manufactures left now, Nintendo and Sony.
MS are married to PC at this point, and they are handling their platform like it's a PC.
A slow transitioning into xcloud.

 

[Astral Dog]

That 7.5GB of RAM will be very interesting to compare when a Switch 2 comes out

 

[GHG]

outperform PS5

So a 4tf console can outperform the PS5 but when people talk about the PS5 keeping pace with the Series X it gets ridiculed?

I can't keep up with all these shifting narratives.

Honestly, don't be surprised if Sony gets easy pickings for next gen 3rd party exclusives and timed exclusives because of this.

 

[Portugeezer]

I like the concept as it will mean I might buy one. I don't need two similarly powered machines, so I'd probably stick with PS5. But with Lockhart, if they can hit around £250 then it's an easy impulse buy for a handful of exclusives/gamepass.

 

[RaySoft]

That 7.5GB of RAM will be very interesting to compare when a Switch 2 comes out

I don't think the RAM will be a problem.. SSD's makes sure you need less RAM for asset storage anyways. Fidelity is also lower compared to XSX.
But the CPU is kind off puzzling I must confess. Regardless of graphic fidelity, all the other aspects will be the same as AI, physics, collisions etc. so (if chosen to run on the CPU) it would require the same CPU power as it's big brother.

 

[splattered]

XSX... MS' SteamBox? ;-)
There's only two console manufactures left now, Nintendo and Sony.
MS are married to PC at this point, and they are handling their platform like it's a PC.
A slow transitioning into xcloud.

You say that as if Sony isn't going to implement major changes next gen and start focusing more on the cloud offering streaming service similar to xCloud, begin adding more 1st party games day and date to the PS Now Service in hopes of hooking more subscribers, and start porting tons of their games to PC to rake in more cash.

I know people don't want to hear it, but you can't fight the future. Sorry.

 

[Kuranghi]

I think this would make a fine BC console for me.

Holy shit if it was £150 quid and it played BLACK and Burnout Revenge at 4K60 (Lets be clear THERE IS NO FUCKING WAY BLACK will be upgraded lol) I'd be on it day-zero. Ohhh that gets me hawt just thinking about it.

Thanks for the reminder Franny.

 

[Nikana]

Holy shit if it was £150 quid and it played BLACK and Burnout Revenge at 4K60 (Lets be clear THERE IS NO FUCKING WAY BLACK will be upgraded lol) I'd be on it day-zero. Ohhh that gets me hawt just thinking about it.

Thanks for the reminder Franny.

Wasn't Black already given One X Rez increase?

 

[Nikana]

I don't think the RAM will be a problem.. SSD's makes sure you need less RAM for asset storage anyways. Fidelity is also lower compared to XSX.
But the CPU is kind off puzzling I must confess. Regardless of graphic fidelity, all the other aspects will be the same as AI, physics, collisions etc. so (if chosen to run on the CPU) it would require the same CPU power as it's big brother.

Which it's rumored to have just not clocked as high.

 

[RaySoft]

You say that as if Sony isn't going to implement major changes next gen and start focusing more on the cloud offering streaming service similar to xCloud, begin adding more 1st party games day and date to the PS Now Service in hopes of hooking more subscribers, and start porting tons of their games to PC to rake in more cash.

I know people don't want to hear it, but you can't fight the future. Sorry.

You are 100% correct, and I haven't denied that.
MS are in a good position, with their Azure farms, and have a headstart against Sony at least going into the "dreaded" online-only world.

 

[splattered]

I couldn't imagine most people would want to be playing at 1080p for another generation. Not for these games that strive for realistic visuals.

Nintendo fans would like a word with you

 

[splattered]

You are 100% correct, and I haven't denied that.
MS are in a good position, with their Azure farms, and have a headstart against Sony at least going into the "dreaded" online-only world.

They may have the head start but they have also extended the olive branch to help Sony continue to be able to compete and prosper.

 

[RaySoft]

Which it's rumored to have just not clocked as high.

I know it's still Zen2 cores, but why the downclock though... A smaller box and less heat dissipation ability maybe, but still.

Edit: Reading my own post I can see it was hard to figure out what I was thinking. I should have stated Hz

 

[oagboghi2]

Is it just me, or its it all kinds of strange that on one hand MS have hinged all their next gen messaging on the power advantage of the Series X, and yet we're supposed to believe that they are also going to push a next-gen SKU for people who don't care about power?

This isn't complimentary, one just undermines the pitch for the other.

Well according to all the Xbox fans here, MS doesn't care about hardware, they care about software and gamepass.

So the fuck do they care if the console is strong or not. As long as people buy gamepass, it's a success for MS.

Awful for gamers, but what else is new.

 

[GHG]

I find the step down in CPU bizarre.

As you lower the resolution things become more CPU bound as you lean on the GPU less.

The only way this makes sense is if they are also not concerned about framerates for this box.

This thing really doesn't need to and shouldn't exist.

 

[Kuranghi]

Wasn't Black already given One X Rez increase?

I just looked and it totally did! Thats amazing!

I watched a video around when X1 BC came out and it said it was just a straight port, maybe did a patch later? Either that or I was just thinking of the 360 backcompat probably.

 

[RaySoft]

They may have the head start but they have also extended the olive branch to help Sony continue to be able to compete and prosper.

Yes, because It's MS that owns Azure, not Xbox. So they won't deny customers regardless of brandname (They have stockholders to answer to)