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Rumor The Verge: Xbox Series S (7.5GB usable RAM, 4TF GPU, Up: Same CPU)

Thirty7ven

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Apr 13, 2020
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Leaked Microsoft document hints at second next-gen Xbox



The leaked document also mentions a Lockhart profiling mode. Sources familiar with Microsoft’s Xbox plans tell The Verge that this special Lockhart mode is part of the Xbox Series X developer kit. The devkit, codenamed Dante, allows game developers to enable a special Lockhart mode that has a profile of the performance that Microsoft wants to hit with this second console. We understand that includes 7.5GB of usable RAM, a slightly underclocked CPU speed, and around 4 teraflops of GPU performance. The Xbox Series X includes 13.5GB of usable RAM, and targets 12 teraflops of GPU performance.
Maybe MS is aiming for 199$?

 
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Geki-D

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Good luck to devs willing to make games that will run to the best possible performance on both 7.5GB RAM and 4TF but also 13.5GB RAM, and 12FT. If this is true, MS are pretty much asking devs to make 2 versions of each game. Of course what will really happen is that they'll just make the higher spec version then quickly disable and lower stuff till it runs ok on Lockhart. So games are probably going to look like rushed Switch ports.
 

Dontero

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Apr 19, 2018
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If this thing is real they can just as well cancel next gen because aside from PS5 exclusives most games will be only marginal jump.

Slower CPU and less RAM?!? Very weird as the thought was “just” a bit less ram as it targets 1080p and a bit slower GPU for the same reason but no CPU speed differential.
You don't need fast CPU when you have GPU that can't put out fast framerates.
 

Panajev2001a

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If this thing is real they can just as well cancel next gen because aside from PS5 exclusives most games will be only marginal jump.



You don't need fast CPU when you have GPU that can't put out fast framerates.
Yes you do if the GPU side is already constrained properly: checkerboard rendering at 1440p on XSX would become a sub 1080p checkerboarded game on XSS sure...
 

Kenpachii

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And yet in terms of RAM & TF there really isn't anything "slight" about it. That's like a whole gen of difference between 4 & 12TF.

The range is so crazy in fact, I'm actually sure this is fake.
Ram i agree but tflops not really. 4k murders gpu's. Reduction resolution and textures will probably free up lots of ram space + lower the tf requirement drastically.

If they can release this for 199 that would be absolutely interesting for lots of people that don't care about resolution wars.]
 

Clear

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Is it just me, or its it all kinds of strange that on one hand MS have hinged all their next gen messaging on the power advantage of the Series X, and yet we're supposed to believe that they are also going to push a next-gen SKU for people who don't care about power?

This isn't complimentary, one just undermines the pitch for the other.
 

M1chl

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Dec 25, 2019
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Seems odd, to just not announce it right away if true obviously. And based on specs, they should just keep the X1X platform, with more RAM and more TFLOPS and throw there a Zen2 honestly, because this does not sounds good at all. Maybe it's box to play XB1 BC and stream those next-gen titles? Because I don't know, seems rather weird. Zen2 CPU is still there, sure, you need less RAM for lower resolution, but that 4TF GPU, even if RDNA2 does not really sounds good. How much more performance per flop, you get from that over Vega?
 

THE:MILKMAN

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Interesting. I wonder what the configuration of the RAM and GPU could be then?

If 7.5GB is available to devs for games and assuming the OS/front-end is identical in function/features to XSX then I guess 10 1GB chips of GDDR6 on a 160-bit bus (is that technically possible?) if not then what would the most likely config be?

Say a 20CU (18CU) GPU @1.75GHz and a CPU @ ~3.2GHz. APU size around 200mm^2.

I don't like the sound of Tom's cheaper doesn't mean cheap Tweet, though. That sounds like >$300.
 
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X-Fighter

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Slighty lower CPU clock is not the problem but 6gb of ram missing is the big deal if true. THAT would explain devs complaining. PS5 exclusives would be the best looking games next gen in that scenario.
Why would you need that amount of RAM if your output is targeted for 1080p?

I think it's going to be a great console. Probably going to get one for my home office, and the XSX for the living room.
 
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Geki-D

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On MS related info? Yes. He is basically an extension of MS PR.
Damn. Well, I really don't understand MS' approach here, then. They're planning on having a system that plays the same games, but can only load into RAM just a bit more than half the assets of the other.

Ram i agree but tflops not really. 4k murders gpu's. Reduction resolution and textures will probably free up lots of ram space + lower the tf requirement drastically.
Would they really release a console in 2020 that doesn't really do 4K? We're talking nearly /2 RAM here. They'd need to go back to 1080p to really save on RAM.

Between this & Series X we're actually pretty close to the same difference in RAM & TF between a Switch & Base PS4.
 

SteveLorde

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Jan 27, 2020
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A lot of people aren't getting the RAM part...this is unified GDDR memory guys, basically Lockheart will have 4GB of VRAM, which is enough for 1080p high textures in most games.
 
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X-Fighter

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Would they really release a console in 2020 that doesn't really do 4K? We're talking nearly /2 RAM here. They'd need to go back to 1080p to really save on RAM.
They'll use checkerboarding or DirectML to get it to 4K. That's less intensive, and you'll see the difference BUT that's what you get with a $200 console.
 

HerjansEagleFeeder

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Funny how some of the same people praising certain developers for their wizardry when it comes to getting out the most of available hardware are also saying they can't possibly optimize their games for three different SKU altough it's an everyday thing for games that also release on PC and have to support gazillions of possible configs. Please spare me the "b.. b.. but the ViSiOn oF tHe gAmE, Ai, pHySiCs" talk, we all know how next gen games will be not much different from what we have now.
 

KungFucius

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Why do people insist that 2 tightly controlled variations will give devs a hard time. The majority of devs do multiplatform and PC and the games are fine. Many aspects of games scale a 1080p target machine would be designed in such a way to make it easy to switch between the two profiles. It probably has higher specs than required to provide some margin.
 

CAB_Life

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So much concern trolling and victimization—oh noes, what have ye done, next gen is ruined!—ya’ll should start a Twitter thread on how problematic this is and on how threatened you all feel.

There are no downsides to a lower specced, lower cost console and the Wii showed us exactly this. A lower price-point also served MS well with the 360. Can’t blame them for pursuing a (generally) successful strategy. Will it work again? Time will tell.

Future games are all being built to scalable hardware, too, and if you’ve played a PC game in the last decade you would know this.

Edit: I still don’t see this retailing for less than $250 though.
 
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BluRayHiDef

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At face value, the decision to have the GPU of Lockhart perform at 4 teraflops seems odd, considering that the Xbox One X's GPU is capable of 6 teraflops. However, I believe that RDNA 2 has been said to feature a performance increase of 62% per terfalop relative to GCN, which means that the performance of Lockhart's GPU would be equal to 6.48 terafalops relative to GCN.
 

Ar¢tos

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He's not wrong though, although I agree his career will be shortlived if that is the general attitude.
No, it's semantics. "slower" encompasses everything from "extreme" up to "slightly", and since we don't know the numbers, we cannot say which one. But considering everything in the OP is likely fake, it doesn't really matter.
 
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Thirty7ven

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7.5GB RAM? Down from 13.5? How the fuck are they going to design the same games for these machines?
Point is being missed here I think. Gamepass and PC have turned Xbox into something different, it's now just another option. A console option for the living room. In truth, MS needs games to support lower end configurations on PC anyway. That opens two doors, a lower end XBox on the market and a higher framerate Xbox. The Series X optimized badge is starting to make a lot of sense isn't it?
 

mrBarrelNut

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One X is a 4K console, and has 9 GB of usable ram for games. Lockhart outputting at quarter resolution could do with less than that, especially when Velocity Arch is helping conserve texture memory with sampler feedback and using high speed paged approach.

Machine with slightly lowered CPU clocks (similar to PS5 CPU clocks), 512GB SSD, 4+TF GPU, 10 GB RAM could be around $200-250 while still be able to give a great next gen experience at lower resolutions compared to XSX. And with DLSS 2.0 type upscaling, it could rival or even outperform PS5.

Remember: