-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Verge: Xbox Series S (7.5GB usable RAM, 4TF GPU, Up: Same CPU)
- Thread starter Thirty7ven
- Start date
- Rumor
Tulipanzo
Member
If TF scales with resolution linearly, and a 12TF system runs a full-RT game at 1080p, a 4TF will go to sub-1080p
Similarly for PS5 running the UE5 tech demo at 1440p (Lockhart would run it at 1.47M5 resolution, similar to A4 paper format).
It is woefully underpowered given the direction tech is moving; there's a reason devs heavily dislike it.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
By definition what they do is a patch for every "BC" game.
Nemesis Prime
Member
It’s a great idea, there’s pro and normal versions in most tech departments, from laptops to phones, makes total sense to bring this to the console market. People wanna play next gen games without all the bells and whistles at a lower cost, why shouldn’t they create a device that does this?
Games are already scalable as evident with PC gaming
Games are already scalable as evident with PC gaming
Chiggs
Gold Member
This.
eastwood333
Banned
Because One X does not have RDNA2, Zen Cpu, SSD. There components are needed for next gen.Its quite simple.
The One X/One S will be phased out to make room for XSX/Lockhart. MS knows what they're doing.
Last edited:
GHG
Gold Member
People know the deal with that, you're buying a console near to the end of life so you can't expect any different.
If they are to go down the route you are suggesting then it would be unwise of them to market Lockhart as a next generation console alongside the Series X (e.g. "Exactly the same minus the resolution and cost") since it would mislead people.
Chiggs
Gold Member
They don’t know shit from shinola, and I’ve got 7 years of “performance” as proof positive.
Last edited:
01011001
Banned
not really, the emulation layer detects your system and changes the internal render resolution accordingly
Aidah
Member
Give me the price and full specs of this turd and some software running on it so I can properly judge it. Also give me complete specs for PS5/Series X along with prices.
I won't be buying an Xbox in any case, but I would obviously rather the next gen baseline be PS5/Series X regardless of the above.
Also, If they release a "Pro" version of Series X three or four years down the line, the Series X and this turd gets a redesign and becomes cheaper, are they going to be targeting 3 price points then. Seems unnecessary in that case.
I won't be buying an Xbox in any case, but I would obviously rather the next gen baseline be PS5/Series X regardless of the above.
Also, If they release a "Pro" version of Series X three or four years down the line, the Series X and this turd gets a redesign and becomes cheaper, are they going to be targeting 3 price points then. Seems unnecessary in that case.
Last edited:
DemonCleaner
Member
dont do it Phil!
PistolGrip
sex vacation in Guam
I don't get why MS is doing this. Nintendo can get away with something like this but not MS. Why Phil? Why? It's the iPhone 8 disaster all over again.
MightySquirrel
Banned
Damn it I was hoping this thing is dead.
iJudged
Banned
that SSD in PS5 is too damn expensive, that is going to drive the price to $499 or higher, unfortunately
iJudged
Banned
theyre trying to get as many of these into as many homes as possible and bank on XBL and GP subscriptions. From the business perspective, smart...And at $199 these things are going to sell.
TheContact
Member
There's almost definitely going to be a discless series x as well
Psykodad
Banned
Weren't report saying production cost for PS5 was around $450-$480, due to lowered availability of certain parts?
If so, what makes people think Sony can't sell PS5 at $399, with a minor loss per unit? Maybe even less loss if availability of those parts has resolved?
Last edited:
-Arcadia-
Banned
I said something similar for PS and price yesterday, and I'll say it for Xbox today.
Do you really think the team behind the turnaround of the Xbox brand, a bunch of great initiatives, and the One X, is just going to make a move like this without carefully considering it?
They have had this up and running, and have likely measured out and addressed every possible pitfall, for years before ever committing to something like this.
I don't see Microsoft handing over the current graphics king title and attaching an anchor to themselves. I don't see Microsoft erasing the progress they've made in being likable. And I certainly don't see Don Mattrick anywhere.
Have a little faith. If not in them, then basic capalitism. This team isn't out to crash their own brand, especially not during the first chance they've had to change their fortunes in 7 years, and any decision made, is being made because they feel they can pull it off.
We'll see shortly, if the rumors are true, in any case.
Do you really think the team behind the turnaround of the Xbox brand, a bunch of great initiatives, and the One X, is just going to make a move like this without carefully considering it?
They have had this up and running, and have likely measured out and addressed every possible pitfall, for years before ever committing to something like this.
I don't see Microsoft handing over the current graphics king title and attaching an anchor to themselves. I don't see Microsoft erasing the progress they've made in being likable. And I certainly don't see Don Mattrick anywhere.
Have a little faith. If not in them, then basic capalitism. This team isn't out to crash their own brand, especially not during the first chance they've had to change their fortunes in 7 years, and any decision made, is being made because they feel they can pull it off.
We'll see shortly, if the rumors are true, in any case.
iJudged
Banned
simple, they don't have to. PS5 is going to sell like mad at $499, hell even at $599....they don't have to take any losses, MS does. I'll say digital PS5 is going to go for $449, $499 highest.
Psykodad
Banned
I agree. I expect the same. For the disc-version that is.
I also fully expect Sony to be competitive with their pricing, with slightly higher prices compared to whatever MS does.
Physiognomonics
Member
The main problem of Lockhart as depicted in this leak is the small amount of useable ram (1.5 GB less than...XBX, like wow). If true this will cause headaches to developers. The rest will be easily scalable.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
When you can fill RAM at 40x's the speed of the XOX you can use less of it for caching.
I do agree it seems drastic, but that's also why you aren't seeing a massive RAM increase this gen in general. You had to design a large cache this-gen to get around the fact loading from HDD was slow and expensive.
MasterCornholio
Member
Lockhart would have been shelved a long time ago. They wouldn't start producing the console and then cancel it due to the PS5s price.
Grinchy
Banned
Yep, the second it gets officially revealed, we're stuck with its problems for the entire generation. Even if it "died" we'd still not see games made for the real next-gen console as the baseline until so far into the generation.
Microsoft, who "doesn't care about selling hardware," is fucking the whole generation for 3rd parties just to be able to claim they are selling hardware. This is even worse than the 360 having a DVD drive and not coming with a hard drive in its low-end model. Whatever happened to the division that blasted through the gates with that first Xbox? What a great start that turned into one dumbass move after another.
KURDISTAN YPG
Member
Would they not save for more money on cancelling the lockhart and taking 200 dollar loss on series x be smarter move?
this is basically to promote services notbing else- lockhart has to be the digital version it would make no business sense to do this-
this is basically to promote services notbing else- lockhart has to be the digital version it would make no business sense to do this-
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
BOM doesn't account for everything. Dont know if that's a landed price (usually a BOM is not a landed price) and that doesn't account for retail margins.
Last edited:
Physiognomonics
Member
No. Whatever how you spin this. The amount of useable ram is the first thing developers check when they design each levels (what's visible by the player at any moment, that can't be streamed, even on PS5): How many ennemies in the room ? How big the level ? How many sound effects ? How many animations ? How many AI systems ? etc. 7.5GB for the lowest denominator is the worst news for multiplats.
Honestly I can't believe this is true. I hope it's not true as I want ambitious mulitplatform games. Like Monster Hunter world 2 will have to be designed for a 7.5GB machine when MHW 1 was designed for 5GB systems. If true those multiplats won't feel next gen.
But MS already said they don't believe in generations. If this leak is true they were serious. The same games, running up-resed with higher fps from XB1 to Lockhart to XSX. This is their vision for next gen ?
Last edited:
splattered
Member
Would $100 or $200 more expensive than whatever MS does be a deal breaker to you?
No FUD, serious question...
IMO if i really want a console i'm just going to have to pay whatever it is they're asking... people seem to be getting kind of defensive over pricing for some reason.
If MS totally runs away with the price advantage that isn't going to stop Sony fans from buying the PS5 is it?
GamingArena
Member
Same as my 2080Ti is kneecapped by 2060. Right?
Psykodad
Banned
Perhaps, but PS3 costed like $800 to produce, yet Sony sold it for $599.
Last edited:
geordiemp
Member
So If you buy a disk, doe sthe disk need to have 1080p ready and higher res 4k textures preinstalled ?#
Will that make XSX games more disk space ?
Or does smart delivery choose which disk you get in teh post ?
Will there be a lockart disk and XSX disk with different assets or will Lockart be digital only and the lower assets need downloading .?
Will that make XSX games more disk space ?
Or does smart delivery choose which disk you get in teh post ?
Will there be a lockart disk and XSX disk with different assets or will Lockart be digital only and the lower assets need downloading .?
Last edited:
The Hamburglar
Banned
I’m a firm believer that this shit tier version will hold next gen back completely. I’ve seen nothing to convince me otherwise.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Different situation and different goals. They were heavily inspired to push the Blu Ray format at that time as well and saw the PS3 as a way to do that.
geordiemp
Member
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Lockhart is rumored and expected to be discless.
Psykodad
Banned
I'm part of the core Playstation audience. I'll buy PS5 no matter what.
Same goes for the Xbox core audience.
It's the masses they need to get onboard and that's where pricing comes into play, right?
$100 might not be a deal breaker, $200+ would be a different story.
Sony has the upperhand regardless though.
Stronger brand recognition and mindshare worldwide, amazing track record when it comes to games library and that results in them being able to get away with higher pricing far more easily.
But they aren't as stupid and clueless as some make it seem.
All of their 4 generations have been in the top 5 of best-selling home consoles ever. They know exactly how to approach the market and how to deal with their competitor('s).
MS is shooting themselves in the foot with Lockhart if it really is that underpowered as a next-gen console.
Last edited:
splattered
Member
That isn't apples to apples... no one is expecting XsX performance out of the Lockhart.
We are expecting XsX level of performance out of the PS5 because they're so close in specs.
People that buy the Lockhart are buying into a watered down experience and they will (Hopefully) know that at the time of purchase.
I'm seeing several people in this thread say stuff like "Sweet i'll buy this if its cheap and main my PS5" which is perfectly fine... MS would be happy with that.
Not only could they secure all the price sensitive casual console players period, they could also secure a box in everyone's house at least as a secondary machine.
Psykodad
Banned
Yeah, but the point was production cost vs retail pricing.
Back then Sony wanted to push Blu-Ray, this time they want to push generational transition. Jim Ryan already said as much and I assume that has to do with the paradigm shift we keep hearing about.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
What part of my statement are you disagreeing with?
The faster you can fill RAM the less you need for caching; that's a basic fact. You are welcome to claim it still isn't enough but I'm not wrong about that. There's a reason there is only a 4GB RAM difference between XOX and XSX and it's because they can increase fidelity and still shrink their cache because of how fast they can fill it. Fidelity is going to go up by a factor much smaller than even the XSX SSD increase let alone the insane PS5 increase.
7.5GB might still be too little, I didn't say otherwise. But I'm not conceptually wrong here. We'd need game devs to tell us how bad that is and if it's enough for a next-gen game with last-gen fidelity.
Last edited:
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Right but they were willing to take a bigger hit as they were pushing Blu Ray as the dominant format and had the opportunity to make more money from licensing. They likely won't be willing to take over nearly as big of a loss as they did with the over $200 loss they took on PS3. Granted they likely won't have to as Microsoft won't want to take a huge loss either and will be in the same ballpark on price.
Last edited:
iJudged
Banned
truth
Psykodad
Banned
Yes, but this time the loss would only be ~$80 at worst, possibly even less.
And we all know they make profit off software.
We also don't even know the production cost for XSX, could very well be similar.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Never said they wouldn't take a hit or not be willing to.
oldergamer
Member
You guys can keep on with this bullshit narrative. The damn thing hasn't even been announced. you don't know what it is, and you guys are making a lot of assumptions you have no idea about. How many developers do you see crying from the hills that that this won't work and its a bad idea? How many? 2 or 3? The entire idea this would hold back game development didn't come from developers, it came from the "gaming/online media"
...and no MS has not been fucking up the industry since they entered. that is a stupid statement.
Psykodad
Banned
Then I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
Last edited:
jimbojim
Banned
Not necessarily. Remember that XSX has 175 GB more than PS5 SSD.
BOM count or doesn't count for everything ( even though i've read somewhere that in BOM is already included taxes and shipping ) but all we know that XSX is up to 50-70$ more expensive than PS5.
Last edited:
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
That their loss would be more than what a BOM sheet says.