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[Ar¢tos]

If there are VR features built in which displaced other features which could have been beneficial to non-VR then I am not sure how I would feel about that.

I am a fan of PSVR but building on-chip features for an accessory gives me Kinect vibes.

There is no such thing as VR exclusive hardware features. What you can use for VR can also be used for non-VR.

 

[Shodan09]

It's like a pizza. They both have the same base but with different toppings.

It's exactly like this but the PS5 toppings are pralines and dick.

 

[FranXico]

After this update OP, what is the missing feature of RDNA2 on ps5? VRS? if so, why?

The engineer did not say which feature was pulled. That it could be VRS is a speculation.

 

[FranXico]

Called it!!! I got Banned from the Tech talk but now I know I'm right. No matter how you play this PS5 is Based on a refresh of a off the shelf chip otherwise known as the RX 5900 XT. It also explains why so many features are missing. I think of it more of A Rdna base with our dna added components to the die.

So, GPU hardware features on XSX that the ps5 is missing: VRS, MachineLearning mesh shaders(newer version of ps5s primitive shaders and sampler feedback streaming. Anything else the XSX's GPU has over the ps5's GPU?

How about you try reading?

It is based on RDNA 2, but it has more features and, it seems to me, one less.

 

[silent head]

The engineer did not say which feature was pulled. That it could be VRS is a speculation.

ML?machine learning?

 

[Orky]

How about you try reading?

Do we know what features it has more and which one it has less?

 

[CuNi]

Do we actually know the full RDNA2 feature set?
Without knowing that, I think all we can do is guess and speculate what it has more and what is missing.

 

[psorcerer]

The whole thread is people misunderstanding what ML is. Each giving a different meaning to the word.
Just FYI: ML is a marketing term. Case closed.

 

[longdi]

For those of you complaining of pineapple on pizza. You have found a new crusade. OMG Durian. Dogs and cats that eat almost anythiing that doesn’t move have these reactions.

Eating durian has surprising benefits for one's health

MAKES YOU HAPPY (REALLY)
Durian actually has happy chemicals to make you feel good.
It contains the amino acid tryptophan, which is converted to serotonin, a neurotransmitter that induces feelings of happiness and relaxation, so your mood naturally improves after eating

HELPS TO REGULATE SLEEP
Tryptophan in durian also gets converted to melatonin, a hormone that controls your sleep cycle. The higher your melatonin levels, the easier it is to fall asleep.
If you have trouble snoozing, swop your usual bedtime snack for durian - just one seed is enough. Remember to gurgle away the durian breath thoroughly after that.

CONTROLS BLOOD PRESSURE
Durian is rich in potassium, an electrolyte that helps to maintain blood pressure levels. High blood pressure can lead to several health complications such as heart disease, stroke and kidney failure.

EXCELLENT SOURCE OF ENERGY
It is a perfect pre-workout snack as it is high in carbohydrates, which gives a quick release of energy to keep you going strong during exercise.
Two medium seeds (about 55g) contain 90 calories and give you almost the same amount of carbs as a medium banana.

IMPROVES BONE HEALTH
Iron and copper are minerals that are essential for strong bones, and durian is rich in them.
A study by the National Centre for Biotechnology Information in the US showed that having a higher iron intake helped to increase bone density whereas higher calcium intake had a negligible effect on bones.

GIVES YOU GOOD SKIN
With 11.6mg of vitamin C a serving (two medium seeds), durian contains more vitamin C than most tropical fruits.
Vitamin C has antioxidant properties to fight free radicals in your body, thus reducing the appearance of pigmentation and wrinkles.

INCREASES SEX DRIVE
It is known to be a libido-boosting food among Asians - which could explain the well-known traditional Indonesian saying, "When the durians fall, the sarongs go up".

 

[ZywyPL]

Do we know what features it has more and which one it has less?

- It has more features.
- Oh ok, but what kind of features exactly?
- It has more.
- Can you at least list them?
- MORE!!!!

 

[The Hamburglar]

Called it!!! I got Banned from the Tech talk but now I know I'm right. No matter how you play this PS5 is Based on a refresh of a off the shelf chip otherwise known as the RX 5900 XT. It also explains why so many features are missing. I think of it more of A Rdna base with our dna added components to the die.

You can now return to ms HQ and collect your pat on the back, handshake and welcome home soldier parade. Mission accomplished, war hero.

 

[Orky]

- It has more features.
- Oh ok, but what kind of features exactly?
- It has more.
- Can you at least list them?
- MORE!!!!

well, this really reminds me of this:

PS5 'Superior' to Xbox Series X in a Lot of Ways, But Devs Seem Disappointed by Sony's Communication

Ups and downs

www.pushsquare.com

and this:

PS5 – unique, unannounced features teased by Sony Interactive Entertainment president

Business Insider Japan has published a new interview with Sony Interactive Entertainment president and CEO Jim Ryan, who touches briefly upon the newly revealed PlayStation 5 logo; teases unique, u…

www.gematsu.com

super vague and months later still nothing. Hopefully we will get to know all those details soon.

 

[replicant-]

Based on doesn't mean full fat imo. Where are features as mesh shaders, vrs, machine learning upscaling?

I hope the PS5 does have these hw features.

 

[sonomamashine]

well, this really reminds me of this:

PS5 'Superior' to Xbox Series X in a Lot of Ways, But Devs Seem Disappointed by Sony's Communication

Ups and downs

www.pushsquare.com

and this:

PS5 – unique, unannounced features teased by Sony Interactive Entertainment president

Business Insider Japan has published a new interview with Sony Interactive Entertainment president and CEO Jim Ryan, who touches briefly upon the newly revealed PlayStation 5 logo; teases unique, u…

www.gematsu.com

super vague and months later still nothing. Hopefully we will get to know all those details soon.

Still waiting for some official infos about ps5 from sony to clear some confusions.

 

[eastwood333]

well, this really reminds me of this:

PS5 'Superior' to Xbox Series X in a Lot of Ways, But Devs Seem Disappointed by Sony's Communication

Ups and downs

www.pushsquare.com

and this:

PS5 – unique, unannounced features teased by Sony Interactive Entertainment president

Business Insider Japan has published a new interview with Sony Interactive Entertainment president and CEO Jim Ryan, who touches briefly upon the newly revealed PlayStation 5 logo; teases unique, u…

www.gematsu.com

super vague and months later still nothing. Hopefully we will get to know all those details soon.

Its probably audio, controller features they're referring to

 

[ANIMAL1975]

- It has more features.
- Oh ok, but what kind of features exactly?
- It has more.
- Can you at least list them?
- MORE!!!!

I can’t watch the road to ps5 right now, going to work, but out of my head: Geometry Engine (duh), cash scrubbers, variable clocks based on power draw (it has hardware in the CUs, along with the Power Control Unit, that monitors the process)...

 

[geordiemp]

Based on doesn't mean full fat imo. Where are features as mesh shaders, vrs, machine learning upscaling?

I hope the PS5 does have these hw features.

I dont care for those features.

GE patent sony have their own version of mesh shaders or maybe its the same with different VRS patent.

The Ps5 patent is a more complex VRS that looks better and can also be applied to VR as well so better suited to Ps5.

ML upscaling - again its not important IMO. Best upscaling seen so far was temporal for UE5 demo

Tensor cores, neither consoles will have that.

And if you think the upscaling on teh below neeeds ML, I dont know what to say.

 

[eastwood333]

I dont care for those features.

GE patent sony have their own version of mesh shaders or maybe its the same with different VRS patent.

The Ps5 patent is a more complex VRS that looks better and can also be applied to VR as well so better suited to Ps5.

ML upscaling - again its not important IMO. Best upscaling seen so far was temporal for UE5 demo

Tensor cores, neither consoles will have that.

And if you think the upscaling on teh below neeeds ML, I dont know what to say.

Sony fans really are clinging to that UE5 tech demo and Tim Sweenys paid marketing lol. Its so good that not even Sony 1st party studio games using proprietary engines tailored for the PS5 can come close to it

 

[geordiemp]

Sony fans really are clinging to that UE5 tech demo and Tim Sweenys paid marketing lol. Its so good that not even Sony 1st party studio games using proprietary engines tailored for the PS5 can come close to it

Yet.

We can all look forward to this in a year or 2, its not all about war is it. Its about technologies for both systems.

And my point stands, the temporal effect in that demo is so good, and will get better at the target 60 FPS (temporal is even beter with frame rate) that ML upscaling is not exciting for me (except Nvidia fans and DLSS magic ),

So what do you expect from ML ? What do you think it means for games ?

Tensor cores for RT is a different FP16 game.

Anyway, you believe what you want, MS probably got some ML in there as they will use the same card for servers is the rumour. Whatever.

 

[sircaw]

Sony fans really are clinging to that UE5 tech demo and Tim Sweenys paid marketing lol. Its so good that not even Sony 1st party studio games using proprietary engines tailored for the PS5 can come close to it

You do realise that the unreal engine is like the most popular engine out there for games.

this no doubt will continue with this newer updated version.

 

[Lort]

I dont care for those features.

GE patent sony have their own version of mesh shaders or maybe its the same with different VRS patent.

The Ps5 patent is a more complex VRS that looks better and can also be applied to VR as well so better suited to Ps5.

ML upscaling - again its not important IMO. Best upscaling seen so far was temporal for UE5 demo

Tensor cores, neither consoles will have that.

And if you think the upscaling on teh below neeeds ML, I dont know what to say.

The mesh shaders the xbox has are compatible with nvidia and the PC DX standard, they more advanced than gemoetry shaders. Only time will tell if the custom ps5 geometry are equivilant to mesh shaders.

XseX runs ML using its customer shaders that support all the bitformats that Nvidia tensor cores support. using this is can execute up to 97TOps on 4 bit math. Its hilarious but it alsmost seems like they are trolling the ps4 pro 8 tf fp 16 marketing. At fp16 the XseX does 24tflops. .. these capabilities ( support for 97 TOps on 4 bit and 48TOps at 8bit int) can be used for any general compute.. only ML generally use 4bit integers though.

The shaders are not used for ray tracing though, that has seperate hardware .. if u ran your gou in fp16 and used the ray tracing ( general intersection logic .. doesnt HAVe to be used just for ray tracing) .. you could get a total of 24+ 13 tflops = 37 tflops confirmed. Im not sure if the ray tracing hardware supports fp16 and if it does if that doubles its throughput .. if so the xbox would have up to 50 tflops at fp16.

 

[Hendrick's]

I can’t watch the road to ps5 right now, going to work, but out of my head: Geometry Engine (duh), cash scrubbers, variable clocks based on power draw (it has hardware in the CUs, along with the Power Control Unit, that monitors the process)...

Not a feature I would be bragging about.

 

[Dodkrake]

Not a feature I would be bragging about.

Why not?

 

[Bonsaibäumchen]

Why not?

INB4

 

[Mmnow]

There's a lot that I agree with and I can see from your other posts that we pretty much agree that the next gen shall be awesome and that focusing on the potential of things is rather than what each machine can trump each other at is what gaming is really about. The games we get to play. Though I think the probable miscommunication would be that saying the X1SX is a beast instantly means brute force as posed by others. But if brute forcing is all MS wanted to do, then more cores and threads and RAM and clocks would do the job as everyone in the PCMR believes. But from an engineering architectural perspective, it is inelegant, hence the very nature of the name 'brute force'.
I am excited to see what MS can do when they design a proper console again since the 360. And I mean proper because whether xbox lovers want to admit it or not, the Xbox One was gimped from the very beginning because of Kinect and its whole TV philosophy upon its design.
But what a lot of proper gaming techheads want to know is information that isn't for shouting out "BIG NUMBER" but to go "Wow! That is ingenious" and gain an slither of more understand of programming and hardware from much more clever people than I. I want to know clearly what part does what and how it interacts with all the other parts and what game designers do with that stuff to be able to make the games they make be it hardware or software. It's just that currently new hardware is salivating because we're due some this year. But I am just a mere pixel in the 4K resolution of people. And it's hard to find the proper experts and developers and shift through the armchair experts and know it alls with their FUD spouting yet total lack of basic engineering comprehension and understanding. So I get where you're coming from when people who want to push their narrative can be irritating. This whole debacle about whether or not these GPU's are RDNA 2 or not has been so frustrating when the experts and professionals have already said that they are. I remember lurking during the times of MrXMedia and even now I wonder if making up impossible stuff is better than understanding actual knowledge and facts of how machines work.

I think you're right. I'm perhaps reading more into beast than is there.

We're mostly in agreement, and where we can definitely agree is that making stuff up in the hopes of your console being the best is a waste of everybody's time and effort. I get comparing framerates and stuff like that when the games are out - that's just part of the great console debate. I don't take part myself, but I understand why people would.

But "my anonymous sources trump your anonymous sources" is a game nobody wins.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Sony fans really are clinging to that UE5 tech demo and Tim Sweenys paid marketing lol. Its so good that not even Sony 1st party studio games using proprietary engines tailored for the PS5 can come close to it

Find me some of that free marketing power, I have a bridge to sell and I need some help!

 

[Dirk Benedict]

I said it before, I'll say it again, Hawaiian pizza has a right to exist! No longer with elites like Margherita and Napoletana look down on the humble yet delicious Hawaiian pizza, it shall stand amongst them as one of the greats. Unity, love, not discrimination, #HawaiianPizzasMatter.

Hawaiian pizza shall be force fed in every single Italian household until it acquires the status it deserves.

Fuck outta here with that pineapple empathy shit.

 

[geordiemp]

The mesh shaders the xbox has are compatible with nvidia and the PC DX standard, they more advanced than gemoetry shaders. Only time will tell if the custom ps5 geometry are equivilant to mesh shaders.

XseX runs ML using its customer shaders that support all the bitformats that Nvidia tensor cores support. using this is can execute up to 97TOps on 4 bit math. Its hilarious but it alsmost seems like they are trolling the ps4 pro 8 tf fp 16 marketing. At fp16 the XseX does 24tflops. .. these capabilities ( support for 97 TOps on 4 bit and 48TOps at 8bit int) can be used for any general compute.. only ML generally use 4bit integers though.

The shaders are not used for ray tracing though, that has seperate hardware .. if u ran your gou in fp16 and used the ray tracing ( general intersection logic .. doesnt HAVe to be used just for ray tracing) .. you could get a total of 24+ 13 tflops = 37 tflops confirmed. Im not sure if the ray tracing hardware supports fp16 and if it does if that doubles its throughput .. if so the xbox would have up to 50 tflops at fp16.

Likely RDNA2 :

PS5:
4 x 36 x 2.23 GHz - 321.12 Billion ray intersections per second

XSX:
4 x 52 x 1.825 GHz - 379.6 Billion Ray intersections per second

 

[jonnyp]

I can’t watch the road to ps5 right now, going to work, but out of my head: Geometry Engine (duh), cash scrubbers, variable clocks based on power draw (it has hardware in the CUs, along with the Power Control Unit, that monitors the process)...

Cash scrubbers? Poor wallet!

 

[PropellerEar]

I said it before, I'll say it again, Hawaiian pizza has a right to exist! No longer with elites like Margherita and Napoletana look down on the humble yet delicious Hawaiian pizza, it shall stand amongst them as one of the greats. Unity, love, not discrimination, #HawaiianPizzasMatter.

Hawaiian pizza shall be force fed in every single Italian household until it acquires the status it deserves.

Americana pizza in Finland is the same as Hawaiian but with added blue cheese.

 

[JonnyMP3]

Americana pizza in Finland is the same as Hawaiian but with added blue cheese.

I'd eat that!

 

[sircaw]

Americana pizza in Finland is the same as Hawaiian but with added blue cheese.

I had blue cheese in my fridge once and trust me, you would not want to it that particular variety.

 

[Trainsmove]

How about you try reading?

That was the O Krapp , I better Clean this up before I do's my job rebuttal.

The architecture of PS5 is not pure RDNA 2 , but a middle ground between RDNA 1 and 2. To say it with great clarity was Rosario Leonardi, Sony engineer working on the new generation console.

 

[MasterCornholio]

That was the O Krapp , I better Clean this up before I do's my job rebuttal.

He also said this.

Inevitably ended in the midst of a fierce controversy, the engineer clarified his statements to make people understand exactly how things are. His new messages, which are also private and unfortunately shared on social media, are very interesting:

"RDNA 2 is a commercial theme to simplify the market, otherwise GPUs with completely random features would come out and it would be difficult for the average user to choose," wrote Leonardi.

"For example, support for ray tracing is not present in any AMD GPU currently on the market. (...) The PlayStation 5 GPU is unique, it cannot be classified as RDNA 1, 2, 3 or 4."

"It is based on RDNA 2, but it has more features and, it seems to me, one less. That message turned out badly, I was tired and I shouldn't have written the things I wrote", continued the engineer, complaining that he received insults for his statements.

The red is a reference to the one you quoted.

Remember look at everything not only the first comment.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Richard has joined the chat.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Richard has joined the chat.

Basically he said he heard the Sony panicked theory.

Not sure if I believe that myself because that's a pretty big change in design at the last minute.

 

[Thirty7ven]

For the whole they panicked bit to work out Sony would’ve had planned the PS5 launch with basically no games available. Just use your brains people.

It doesn’t make sense.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Basically he said he heard the Sony panicked theory.

Not sure if I believe that myself because that's a pretty big change in design at the last minute.

Yea, I think that it's bollocks as well.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Yea, I think that it's bollocks as well.

I mean maybe Sony heard about Microsoft using RNDA2 and decided to delay the PS5 to incorporate it as well. But something like that would have been planned a long time ago. Freaking out and doing it in the last minute would be a disaster of epic proportions.

 

[Shodan09]

Basically he said he heard the Sony panicked theory.

Not sure if I believe that myself because that's a pretty big change in design at the last minute.

The variable clock rates do give some credence to the theory I think. I wonder if we will ever know for sure.

 

[Thirty7ven]

I mean maybe Sony heard about Microsoft using RNDA2 and decided to delay the PS5 to incorporate it as well. But something like that would have been planned a long time ago. Freaking out and doing it in the last minute would be a disaster of epic proportions.

The weird bit is believing Sony wouldn’t rather launch a year earlier. Seriously let’s just ask ourselves in what world does Sony scrap their next gen strategy because of Xbox?

 

[MasterCornholio]

The variable clock rates do give some credence to the theory I think. I wonder if we will ever know for sure.

But it needs a very specific power controller for that to happen. So it's not like they can just flip a switch and make the clocks variable.

 

[splattered]

For the whole they panicked bit to work out Sony would’ve had planned the PS5 launch with basically no games available. Just use your brains people.

It doesn’t make sense.

Pretty good reason to delay your system by a year if you are struggling to pin down performance and reliability and fail to get dev kits out to your teams so they can get the games on time.

Kinda makes sense..

 

[BluRayHiDef]

The variable clock rates do give some credence to the theory I think. I wonder if we will ever know for sure.

No, the variable clocks do not give credence to the panick theory. They wouldn't have bumped clocks at the last minute since that would have required them to come up with their cooling system also at the last minute; however, we know that the patent for the cooling system was filed back in May of 2018 (Link).

IMG]

 

[Thirty7ven]

Pretty good reason to delay your system by a year if you are struggling to pin down performance and reliability and fail to get dev kits out to your teams so they can get the games on time.

Kinda makes sense..

Yeah? And when did they realize this? 2017? 2018?

Please don’t say 2019.

 

[semicool]

Richard has joined the chat.

Aligns with the evidences.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

For the whole they panicked bit to work out Sony would’ve had planned the PS5 launch with basically no games available. Just use your brains people.

It doesn’t make sense.

Considering the heavy-hitter game for the launch of the PS5 consists only of Spiderman: Miles Morales, a 5-10 hour experience, then it doesn't seem too far fetched.

 

[FranXico]

That was the O Krapp , I better Clean this up before I do's my job rebuttal.

Thank you for showing all of us that you didn't read.

 

[MasterCornholio]

fail to get dev kits out to your teams so they can get the games on time.

I don't think getting dev kits out was a problem for Sony. It's why we saw them pretty early on.

 

[FranXico]

No, the variable clocks do not give credence to the panick theory. They wouldn't have bumped clocks at the last minute since that would have required them to come up with their cooling system also at the last minute; however, we know that the patent for the cooling system was filed back in 2018 (Link).

So much for the panicked redesign theory. Actual evidence such as this patent proves it as false.

Here is a much simpler explanation:
RDNA was (and still is) under continuous development. It's far more likely that Sony started co-development earlier and as such, early prototypes were based on older iterations of the tech. As the RDNA architecture evolved, so did the PS5 design, albeit keeping customizations from Sony. It is very likely Sony initially wanted to release in 2019 (I heard rumors of that myself back in 2017), but AMD would have pressed them to time the release of their console alongside RDNA2 desktop GPUs. No panic, just business.