CamHostage
Member
I don't know, it's a fascinating game, but... do you really think Death Stranding started with a "script"?
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Sony's "Cinematic Games" focus
- Thread starter Jubenhimer
- Start date
- Opinion
I don't know, it's a fascinating game, but... do you really think Death Stranding started with a "script"?
DragoonWalker
Member
Isn't just Sony's problem. They're capitalizing on their success, and their greatest success ever was Uncharted, so all studios followed suit to some degree. Other publishers too. Love Sony Template, but I could use a couple more Gravity Rushes and Last Guardians which don't feel cut from the same cloth as the others.
Like you OP, I miss the days when games had more distinct feels, due to low poly/non-standard graphical approaches resulting in unique artstyles. I even miss when devs played with different movement and cameras, even if they were clunky. Though pioneers of Sony's cinematic games, MGS and FFVII were worlds apart. Now I hop from game to game without missing a beat b/c they all employ the same camera and controls/movement, which saves time but sacrifices so much identity.
Like you OP, I miss the days when games had more distinct feels, due to low poly/non-standard graphical approaches resulting in unique artstyles. I even miss when devs played with different movement and cameras, even if they were clunky. Though pioneers of Sony's cinematic games, MGS and FFVII were worlds apart. Now I hop from game to game without missing a beat b/c they all employ the same camera and controls/movement, which saves time but sacrifices so much identity.
Vawn
Banned
I'll take that from ANYONE.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
It's amazing that the 50 hours I played Death Stranding.....at least 40 of those hours were the most gameplay type game you could play this gen.
Klayzer
Member
People that don't play said games, and only parakeet what they read. You know, fanboy 101 stuff.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
It's like if Nintendo released Mario Bros 3 in 1988...and then released Super Mario World in 2008.
The gameplay isn't bad per say, it's just safe, been there done that design.
You walk around boxes, wait for predictable (stupid) AI to walk past, shoot them with standard weapons.
We did this in Metal Gear Solid (1998), we did this in all the Hitman games, we did this in all the Thief, early Assassin's Creed gamea, Splinter Cell etc...
TLoU games just do that standard. To me, standard kinda stinks.
Freeman
Banned
Nah keep the story focused games. Just take it easy on the open world games.
Days Gone is the only one I think rubbed me the wrong way, did we need another zombie game from Sony? Make sure you don't have a similar game when green lighting a project next time.
Days Gone is the only one I think rubbed me the wrong way, did we need another zombie game from Sony? Make sure you don't have a similar game when green lighting a project next time.
I agree, except that Death Stranding has great traversal and building gameplay, just bad combat.
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Isa
Member
I agree OP. I love Sony for the most part, sans Naughty Dog as of late, but this gen felt the most bland and expected from them. I'm so burnt out on Ubisoft style open world games that I had to put down Ghost Of Tsushima, and I had been anticipating that since launch. I tried to go back and play through The Frozen Wilds in Horizon but I couldn't. The game is ok I guess but Aloy is stiff as a board with a personality that leaves me bored, and the world just seems so... bland? Safe maybe. The gameplay is the usual rub, but the factions and people who inhabit the world are so uninteresting to me. I would have gladly ditched any of the open world games, even Days Gone which I actually loved, for more unique stuff, hell even another Bloodborne, Gravity Rush, some arcade racer, anything from Japan Studio. I'd love to see them make a decent attempt at an rpg again. I just feel its a shame that with all that talent and money and they just keep pumping out samey sequels.
For me personally, this coming generation is my least hyped. I'm excited for the new potential and exciting games sure, but almost all from 3rd parties. That Astro Bot game looks cool, as does the Demon's Souls Remake, but where is all the originality Sony was known for? More variety could save a bunch of money and time. Not every game needs to be some multi-million dollar open world uber cinematic extravaganza. Sorry for the rant but its just getting kind of boring. I'm fine with most of their catalogue. I even enjoy quite a bit those cinematic games, but I miss the variety. And since they've shuttered a few studios, I'm going to miss a few genres they would normally have covered for a launch window. I know there are third parties for that now, but most lack that Sony quality.
For me personally, this coming generation is my least hyped. I'm excited for the new potential and exciting games sure, but almost all from 3rd parties. That Astro Bot game looks cool, as does the Demon's Souls Remake, but where is all the originality Sony was known for? More variety could save a bunch of money and time. Not every game needs to be some multi-million dollar open world uber cinematic extravaganza. Sorry for the rant but its just getting kind of boring. I'm fine with most of their catalogue. I even enjoy quite a bit those cinematic games, but I miss the variety. And since they've shuttered a few studios, I'm going to miss a few genres they would normally have covered for a launch window. I know there are third parties for that now, but most lack that Sony quality.
PlayerPurple
Member
They’re at least the only ones of the big 3 who make games holistically.
It’s hard to imagine how different Sony & Microsoft‘s games would be if they weren’t primarily being made to push televisions and online services, respectively.
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Northeastmonk
Gold Member
I remember getting both a physical and digital copy of God of War. I owned the prior games on launch too. It was always about the combat and the plot was what made it all make sense. God of War could be considered what, Cinematic? It made sense to have that type of narrative and it brought life to what you were even doing. It also flowed together as a single shot. An eye following along the journey. If anything, it showed the massive scale of your environment.
I always wonder why some people focused so heavily on MGS being this movie. It told a good story and it had plenty of actual gameplay. You could also spend hours in Death Stranding without a single cutscene. The Last of Us Part 1 & 2 have cinematics and gameplay I’ve never seen on any other platform. Ghost of Tsushima was a breath of fresh air in terms of sandbox games. The plots or cutscenes weren’t even that long.
Just curious but are these anti-Sony fans? What did those fans say when Witcher 3, Fallout 4, or Red Dead Redemption came out? Is it because games have their own novel/movie plot to them? I love arcade games and so forth, but I also realize I’ve happily paid for Sony’s exclusives. If you even go back to Squaresoft games or another publisher at the time. Intro cinematics and heavy plot pieces were always there. I think it boils down to how much you enjoy what you get. Are you focusing on it because it’s a game or because it actually has a story.
Honestly Death Stranding missions are light on the cinematics. When the cutscenes actually occur, they are done high quality stuff. What else has been created other than the interaction between Cliff and BB? What game has ever done that so well?
There are a bunch of shooters with military banter and games that try hard to make that first mission seem fun. I think it’ll be keep growing and games that copy/paste themselves won’t stick out or sell a lot.
I always wonder why some people focused so heavily on MGS being this movie. It told a good story and it had plenty of actual gameplay. You could also spend hours in Death Stranding without a single cutscene. The Last of Us Part 1 & 2 have cinematics and gameplay I’ve never seen on any other platform. Ghost of Tsushima was a breath of fresh air in terms of sandbox games. The plots or cutscenes weren’t even that long.
Just curious but are these anti-Sony fans? What did those fans say when Witcher 3, Fallout 4, or Red Dead Redemption came out? Is it because games have their own novel/movie plot to them? I love arcade games and so forth, but I also realize I’ve happily paid for Sony’s exclusives. If you even go back to Squaresoft games or another publisher at the time. Intro cinematics and heavy plot pieces were always there. I think it boils down to how much you enjoy what you get. Are you focusing on it because it’s a game or because it actually has a story.
Honestly Death Stranding missions are light on the cinematics. When the cutscenes actually occur, they are done high quality stuff. What else has been created other than the interaction between Cliff and BB? What game has ever done that so well?
There are a bunch of shooters with military banter and games that try hard to make that first mission seem fun. I think it’ll be keep growing and games that copy/paste themselves won’t stick out or sell a lot.
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-Arcadia-
Banned
Looking at the PS4 lineup, and the PS5 one, I do feel like Sony is in a good place with variety.
Perhaps Death Stranding, TLoU2, and Ghost of Tsushima back to back to back have influenced perceptions a bit, but when you step back and look at what they've done and where they're heading, things look a bit different.
If there's a problem, I think it's that Sony games tend to fit into generic AAA trends, with exceptions. It's often their more creative, niche, games that I adore, so it's something that I hope they step away from just a little.
Perhaps Death Stranding, TLoU2, and Ghost of Tsushima back to back to back have influenced perceptions a bit, but when you step back and look at what they've done and where they're heading, things look a bit different.
If there's a problem, I think it's that Sony games tend to fit into generic AAA trends, with exceptions. It's often their more creative, niche, games that I adore, so it's something that I hope they step away from just a little.
SlimeGooGoo
Party Gooper
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Dr Kaneda
Member
No, because as I said TLoU2 and God of War have someone of the best gameplay this gen. Anyone that's played them wouldn't disagree for a second.
The reason story of Sony games dominate conversations is that they are worth talking about, and talking about a story is always going to lead to a greater and more in-depth conversation then gameplay. Something like Bayonetta has good gameplay, but you're not going to see countless threads with hundreds of pages discussing it's gameplay. Regardless of how good you're just not going to have that level of discussion. Do you know what does have that level of discussion? TLoU2'S story. Even if a game like TLoU2 has a excellent gameplay, which is does, people are always going to gravitate to talking about the story because in terms of a discussion that's where the meat is going to be. Bloodborne also has excellent gameplay, but outside of raging about bosses it was lore discussions that permeated the discussion about that game as well. It's not a hard concept to grasp.
anthraticus
Banned
Ugh, reminds me when everybody started copying CoD 4.
God, I hate shitty modern mainstream fads.
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INC
Member
Ironically id rather TLoU2 was more open world or faux open world like GoW
TLoU2 teased us more open gameplay whe reaching the city, even gave us a map, and i thought finally more varied gameplay, bit more dynamic.......then that was the only section to do it really.
The comabt as satisfying as it was in parts, was very closed in for me anyway.
Like they had loads of different ideas and just threw them all together.
Look at the end of the game, u walk through a street with as abby, get caught, the ellie murders an entire Fort with no real context who or what they were about (apart for a nod to slavery and work "the farm")
TLoU2 teased us more open gameplay whe reaching the city, even gave us a map, and i thought finally more varied gameplay, bit more dynamic.......then that was the only section to do it really.
The comabt as satisfying as it was in parts, was very closed in for me anyway.
Like they had loads of different ideas and just threw them all together.
Look at the end of the game, u walk through a street with as abby, get caught, the ellie murders an entire Fort with no real context who or what they were about (apart for a nod to slavery and work "the farm")
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MagnesG
Banned
The issue here is not about the lack of gameplay or anything related to that, it's about the huge amount of long long loooong QTEs / cutscenes in every gameplay sequences those games had. You're expected to drop off your controllers at some point to watch short "movies" basically, it's exhausting.
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
All great games are wired with cinematic focus.
The open world part was my least favorite of the game. I am one of those people who doesn't have open world fatigue. I love GOT and I loved RDR2 and HZD but the TLOU to me is not an open world series.
INC
Member
Why i said faux open world. More HUB areas, like GoW
But I dont disagree with you either, just ND teased it, then never did it again
009EspadaSageJay
Member
I mean yea they have games like that along with stuff like driveclub,wipeout and other games like that but do to either it not selling well or the platformed died "vita,move,3d tv" or studio closer
Thats hella opinionated I could name multiple TPS games that are better in game play than the TLOU2 max payne 3 for one. And God of war? god of war best combat was 3 and even then it still didnt touch anything from DMC,Bayo or ninja gaiden.
Watch this then come back to me about that
What? There are countless games more games than not that the main point of discussion is the gameplay because that whats gaming is about gameplay almost all of nintendo's games have always been rooted in great game play discussions. If your games only talking point is its story then again that must been the gameplay has almost no depth to it.
actually you do?
again weak gameplay then if the only talking points are graphics and story.
people play souls games for the gameplay thats like the main topic of discussion outside of boss or level design. I havent seen a single person not play a souls games for story alone?
MrFunSocks
Banned
It's why I still haven't bought a PS4. I generally buy every console every generation because I want to be able to play every game that's released that I like the look of, but the only first party Sony game that interests me is Spiderman. I'm a multiplayer guy almost exclusively apart from a few hours here and there, and the single player games that I play need to be just pure gameplay focus instead of story (like Forza Horizon, Doom, etc). Anything where you can use the word "cinematic" to describe it is not for me.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
My problem with current Sony is not about "Cinematic Games", I enjoy them some of them but for me the biggest reason I like PlayStation in the first place is the first party Japanese games.
Sony putting too much focus on western games and barely putting that much support in their first party Japanese games.
You see less complain about "Cinematic Games" if we got nice healthy amount of both Japanese and western first party games.
Jubenhimer
Member
I think part of the reason for that is because Sony Interactive Entertainment is now based out of California, instead of Tokyo like Sony Computer Entertainment was.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
I guess but I want to see Sony instead of keep purchasing western studios (we already have enough) I rather see them create studio dedicated making JRPGs same way Nintendo has with Monolith Soft.....I don't think thats too much to ask.
Dr Kaneda
Member
Yes it is opinionated, but you haven't even disagreed with me anyway lol. Actually read what I said.
Max Payne 3, God of War 3, Bayonetta 1 and Ninja Gaiden came out LAST generation. So how do those games disprove my statement that TLoU2 and GOW have some of the best gameplay THIS gen? Also take note that I said "some of", not THE outright best, so you can totally include other games if you want like DMC5. That doesn't prevent someone from saying TLoU2 and GOW also had good gameplay along side those games like DMC5.
Dr Kaneda
Member
I never said people didn't discuss the gameplay of games. What I said was that games with deeper stories generate longer/greater detailed discussions. That's just a fact. Doom Eternal has an extremely good and complex gameplay loop and yet it hasn't generated anywhere near the level of discussion something like TLoU2 or FF7 Remake have. Because TLoU2 and FF7 remake have stories that have deep enough to give the general discussion about the games more legs than Doom eternal.
They do? Where are they then? Because you haven't posted these hundred page threads I mentioned, you posted 2 videos. Would you like me to post all the videos just in the last month talking about the TLoU2 story?
Again gameplay can only be discussed for so long. Story leads to a greater discussion, it's these longer discussion involving Sony games that lead to the perception that story is the only focus when in reality it's just because the discussions are longer.
I never said people played souls games for the story. I said that soul games have DISCUSSIONS with legs because of lore.
You're abysmal at having a discussion with. So many strawman and misquotes/lies.
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Fart Knight
Al Pachinko, Konami President
Too bad. I always play on normal, like 90% does.
fran.fernandez
Member
The one camera shot from GoW are one of the best movie/game . I hope more games do the same approach
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
Bryank75
Banned
I like all of them but particularly GOW, Spider-man, Ghost of Tsushima and Bloodborne...
The important thing is that there is a diverse catalog of games so that there is at least something for most people on the platform. I wouldn't expect everyone to like everything.... that is unreasonable.
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
I still need to play GoT but I'm put off by the lack of difficulty.
Bryank75
Banned
They did just add lethal as a difficulty... but I think it needs a bit more challenge on the ghost side for sure. If you're playing straight samurai, I think it has some challenge there.
hyperbertha
Member
Well designed games come alive at higher difficulties. Most developers make normal too easy. You can blame the casual audience for that. If gameplay is important to you, you really should go for the highest difficulty you can these days. Sony games, except for uncharted, tend to be well designed gameplay wise.
Vaelka
Member
I don't really like their games, I know that a lot of people do and that's fine.
But I do think that they try way too hard to act like movies combined with games and it's boring to me.
I find it way more appealing when games tell the story in a way so that it's integrated into the gameplay.
I also think that their games lack depth gameplay wise, altho I'll admit that I did see some stuff in TLOU2 that did surprise me from more skilled players.
But in general their games don't hold a candle to something like DMC or Bayonetta or a really good shooter, and I honestly don't think that they feel good to play and get very repetitive quickly.
They're just made for a casual audience that maybe are new to gaming or don't have a lot of time to spend on them and master them.
It's not that you can't make things look impressive if you're skilled, because you can.
But there's not very much actual involvment on your end in comparison with games that have more depth.
I think that a lot of people mistake things looking cool or visually stunning for depth.
It's like Guilty Gear in comparison with MK11 or SFV, Guilty Gear has such an insane more depth to it which makes it far more rewarding to master but also way less approachable for most people.
Sony games are made from the ground up to appeal to the average joe, if you want something more or different than that then they might not land with you.
I have a hard time being gripped by a story like in their games too in general, I find that usually the game needs to have more interesting lore to really grip me or tell the story in a more unique way. But Sony games are very safe and they try to be grounded which in turn makes their lore a bit uninteresting to me.
I really don't care about stuff like the Fireflies or their zombie version in TLOU or different Samurai clans and the Mongolians etc in GoT. And in TLOU1 and GoW the stories are just really generic and basic, even if they're well told they're really not anything special or unique so I find myself not getting invested at all.
A game can also make me care just by being fun and having likeable characters that I want to be friends with tho, DMC is a good example of that.
The characters are just enjoyable on screen and so I care about what's happening and they don't take it so ultra serious all the time.
Recent Elder Scrolls games aren't exactly the best, but it's sorta the same there too. I care about it because the lore is genuinely interesting and with a heavy emphasis on fantasy. But even in GoW I dunno... It just feels so flat to me. A bit lifeless.
But I do think that they try way too hard to act like movies combined with games and it's boring to me.
I find it way more appealing when games tell the story in a way so that it's integrated into the gameplay.
I also think that their games lack depth gameplay wise, altho I'll admit that I did see some stuff in TLOU2 that did surprise me from more skilled players.
But in general their games don't hold a candle to something like DMC or Bayonetta or a really good shooter, and I honestly don't think that they feel good to play and get very repetitive quickly.
They're just made for a casual audience that maybe are new to gaming or don't have a lot of time to spend on them and master them.
It's not that you can't make things look impressive if you're skilled, because you can.
But there's not very much actual involvment on your end in comparison with games that have more depth.
I think that a lot of people mistake things looking cool or visually stunning for depth.
It's like Guilty Gear in comparison with MK11 or SFV, Guilty Gear has such an insane more depth to it which makes it far more rewarding to master but also way less approachable for most people.
Sony games are made from the ground up to appeal to the average joe, if you want something more or different than that then they might not land with you.
I have a hard time being gripped by a story like in their games too in general, I find that usually the game needs to have more interesting lore to really grip me or tell the story in a more unique way. But Sony games are very safe and they try to be grounded which in turn makes their lore a bit uninteresting to me.
I really don't care about stuff like the Fireflies or their zombie version in TLOU or different Samurai clans and the Mongolians etc in GoT. And in TLOU1 and GoW the stories are just really generic and basic, even if they're well told they're really not anything special or unique so I find myself not getting invested at all.
A game can also make me care just by being fun and having likeable characters that I want to be friends with tho, DMC is a good example of that.
The characters are just enjoyable on screen and so I care about what's happening and they don't take it so ultra serious all the time.
Recent Elder Scrolls games aren't exactly the best, but it's sorta the same there too. I care about it because the lore is genuinely interesting and with a heavy emphasis on fantasy. But even in GoW I dunno... It just feels so flat to me. A bit lifeless.
Vaelka
Member
When I think of a '' cinematic '' game I think of games with a ton of set pieces that severely limit your movement or even take control away from you completely, or just games bloated to the bone with cutscenes.
The thing in the beginning with Abby in TLOU2 where she's crawling under a fence is a good example of a '' cinematic '' moment I think, when a game has a lot of that or just parts of the game that have been crafted by the devs and are artificial then that's what makes a game feel like that.
Some people just really hate it, I happen to be one of those people.
It's not that I am opposed to cutscenes or set pieces, just that it's very easy to overuse them imo.
In RE2 when Leon runs away from the zombie Crocodile is another example too, you're just holding down the move button and moving to the side, are you really playing the game at that point? It might as well be a cutscenes.
If a game is bloated with that stuff then it just makes me feel like I am not even playing a game anymore.
The game doesn't necessarily have to completely take control away from you either, just the devs have created this scene in the game and they're sorta forcing you into it even if you're still in control. An illusion of choice and of it being organic basically but when it really isn't..
Oh yeah, also just other things in the design of the game.
In GoW for example the camera was intentionally limited in a way that a lot of people complained about because Cory Barlog wanted us to feel like we were '' following Kratos ''.
The camera being up the characters ass was an intentional decision to make it '' more cinematic '' and it really got in the way of the game imo and is a very common complaint.
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LittleBusters
Banned
I love games like Inside that have no cut-scenes.
DeadOblivion78
Member
Problem with this is that Sony doesn't have a JRPG studio to begin with.
LittleBusters
Banned
Yet all the JRPG studios basically make exclusive games for Playstation, so it doesn't matter.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
I used to think this. I used to call them movie games but then I started playing Playstation games and realized they were nothing like I imagined
DeadOblivion78
Member
So status quo then.