What is so different between PS5 and XSX architecture? I thought they have almost the same GPU/CPU but XSX have higher clocks and just more CU's on GPU. Are there any significant architectural differences between CPU's (both are 'custom' ZEN 2) and both GPU's are RDNA 2.
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Handy Fake
Member
I think in combination with the PS5 having to use less RAM due to the SSD speed, it sounds like a really streamlined process.
Actually, quick question for the techy types if I may;
When Cerny was talking about only having to store enough assets in RAM for the next ~1 second of gameplay, would that also decrease the GPU load or would the GPU only be dealing with what's on screen at that millisecond? Does the GPU need to take any actions in advance of, say, movement preemptively? And would the SSD speed decrease some of that load on the GPU?
Or is it simply what is on screen at that moment?
If the DS5 will be getting firmware updates then it will have a microcontroller onboard. Would assume there would be a way to initiate a self-test mode without the need for it to be paired to a PS5, which will be neat!
Apollo Helios
Member
You thought wrong. And there are significant architectural differences.
Also since MS event I see a lot of BS takes like "yeah Microsoft's event was a dud, but it's not like Sony came out swinging either..." bla bla.... nope that is pure BS, coming out of butthurt xbox fanatics' asses
Alex Scott
Member
Supposedly PS5 has unified ccx according RedGamingtech. I am not a tech person so don't ask me what that means. Here's a video. He also thinks Xbox has it too.
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sircaw
Banned
At this moment in time, I trust and believe in Paul from Redgamingtech, more than I do Phil Dispenser and Microsoft.
Apollo Helios
Member
Apollo Helios
Member
sircaw
Banned
MastaKiiLA
Member
I'm doubtful. Only showed 1 arena. Maybe it was the only one near completion, but if they had assets for other arenas, I'd have expected them to show then in a sizzle at the end of the trailer. That said, the vehicle destruction looks like it's ready, so maybe all they need to do is finish the other stages. That no release date/window was provided for most games makes me think that only the titles we saw holiday dates for will be ready for launch. I'd peg DAS as a 2021 title.
MastaKiiLA
Member
Unified cache means that the different cores can pass information between each other without having to go off-chip to the slower RAM. It essentially means that processes that run on different cores, but need to operate on the same piece of data can do so more efficiently. It's also faster if different steps in a computational workflow are handled by different cores, because after coreA finishes work on a previous step, coreB can pick up the next step without having to fetch the data from RAM. So faster sequential and parallel processing, assuming the data packets are small enough to fit in the shared L3(?) cache. While I believe my explanation to be correct, this is still hypothetical, as we've not been given any confirmation from Sony or the devs that this shared cache is indeed present in the PS5.
bitbydeath
Member
EmberLabs are Zelda fans.
Shmunter
Member
Johns simply a plain old enthusiast. Nothing radical about his stance. It feels insane to even point it out in today’s climate. Fucking Spencer and his brainwashing of his fans. He’s destroying shit around you plebs and you’re eating it up, yes sir, may I please have some more. Wake up!
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Shmunter
Member
I don’t believe in collectivism. There are good and bad individuals on either side of the fence.
Empire Strikes Back
Member
343i: Can I have a devkit, please? To run Halo Infinite, I promise.
Phil Spencer: No, this one is going to my collection at home. Maybe I’ll put on the bathroom.
Incredible how he says he has the retail version and yet we only saw Gears 5 and Minecraft running on the thing.
Alex Scott
Member
Thank you for the explanation.
TBiddy
Member
You don't believe in collectivism? Did you forget what you just wrote?
Empire Strikes Back
Member
I guess they could stay afloat with Cyberpunk being at GP at launch, it’d be cheaper too since CDPR sells less on Xbox.
Nickolaidas
Member
Handy Fake
Member
Pork I think. Known as "long pig" by certain tribes during the latter half of the 19th Century.
FunkMiller
Member
I will never be able to get my head around the idea of not launching a new console with new exclusive games for it.
FeiRR
Banned
Let's do quick math: Xbox and PC sales of Witcher 3 are about 15 million copies. Let's take this number even though analysts say that CP2077 will sell more. 15 x 60 = 900 million dollars. That's RRP but also without a margin which those deals include.
Are you mad, bro?
Radical Dreamer
Member
Nowadays anti-consumer is short for "anything that doesn't go my way" it's a retarded term mis-used so much like pretty much anything parroted on the internet.
Empire Strikes Back
Member
You already answered yourself with ‘custom’. It’s all about the customizations. Some matters like the GPU Cache Scrubbers (PS5) or SFS (XSX), others don’t matter when comparing the consoles like Jaguar timing on PS5’s CPU.
FeiRR
Banned
Handy Fake
Member
I'll never forgive Napolean for what he did to Boxer.
Shmunter
Member
I accept your point, I grouped every Xbox fan as agreeing with Phil, which is clearly incorrect.
One doesn’t speak for all. But all can express the same thing as individuals if they wish.
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It can be pretty hard to see if you're in the majority.
And you don't want to see it.
ArcaneNLSC
Member
Didn't he also state he had the console already in his living room before the game awards reveal
Empire Strikes Back
Member
It doesn’t have to be at PC GP, lol. They just need a reason to sell more XSX, that was the point of Infinite.Let's do quick math: Xbox and PC sales of Witcher 3 are about 15 million copies. Let's take this number even though analysts say that CP2077 will sell more. 15 x 60 = 900 million dollars. That's RRP but also without a margin which those deals include.
Are you mad, bro?
FeiRR
Banned
Okay then, so taking it away from PS4 and PS5 would be at least 10 million copies, I bet even more because those are two platforms. Do you still think 600 million dollars sounds fine? It's 60 million monthly subs of GP.
3liteDragon
Member
That wasn't the retail version (final build) that came straight out of mass-production, probably just a test kit.
blame microsoft, it's their talking point, because they don't have the next gen exclusive games that entice gamers.
hell... it's debateable if they even have games that entice gamers, so much is gamepass filler trash that i wouldn't have spent full retail price on in the damn first place. even the new games coming-up from those studios they bought will be gamepass filler, as paraphrased from matt booty.
backwards compatability is the one feather in microsoft's hat, and it itself props-up much of gamepass, the two work hand-in-hand. if sony ever figure out backwards compatability and/or work-out a way to make all psnow games downloadable rather than streaming-only, together with their exclusive games, microsoft are in deep trouble no matter how much money daddy Microsoft has.
as for microsoft themselves.... series s should be a handheld device or an 'xbox switch' if you ask me.
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Empire Strikes Back
Member
I guess you missed my point. It wasn’t to have Cyberpunk as an exclusive, but as part of Game Pass. IMO, they would sell hardware better having this game on their offering rather than having people pay $60 for the game alone on XSX. PS5, PS4 and PC versions would still exist and be $60.
DrDamn
Member
To me it's become clear that the bigger exclusive titles simply weren't ready yet. Halo was previously planned and announced for X1 so they had to stick with that and everything else they had planned for the next couple of years was possible on X1 too - so they thought, "Hold on ... we can spin this!". I mean I can see the advantages, but a blanket approach isn't a good one to say is your strategy. Demonstrate support for older generations where it makes sense, but also give demonstrable reasons for people to upgrade.
FeiRR
Banned
Oh, okay. That'd be cheaper then. But is it a good incentive? You don't own anything in GP so you have to keep paying to play the game. CP2077 will be a huge one, probably much over 100 hours. How many people have enough time to finish such a game within 2-3 months? If you need more, what's the point in paying for access to it and not owning it? That is one of major problems I have with GP. Games pop in and out from time to time and you only have a limited time window to play them. That's also why most games on GP are shorter indie and AA titles. It's not a service for huge blockbusters.
IbelieveInGenerations
Banned
Sony hinting something today?
Neo Blaster
Member
Well, I think Gamepass inclusions are cheaper for MS than timed exclusivity regarding big games. Both only last a limited time, but with GP they're only paying for unsold units on Xbox, while on the other they must cover more than twice their userbase.
Empire Strikes Back
Member
I don’t think they even tried to salvage anything. You see that studios like NT and Obsidian had side projects like Bleeding Edge and Grounded, they just got rid of those and released ASAP to free the studios (IMO). They should have tried to salvage anything to be part of the launch lineup, I don’t know, try to polish these things to the extreme.
sircaw
Banned
I never understood why exclusives are considered as anti-consumer.
Gaming is a luxury, you choose to buy into your preferred system. These big companies love to spin, that's it, if the tables were reversed the other company would be doing the exact same thing.
I have never understood why it is so hard for Microsoft to just do the bare minimum.
They have so much money available to them, all the resources in the world but somehow they have got themselves into this massive muddle of always seeming to fuck up.
Just produce quality games, that is in essence what people want, nothing else.
all this or, spin, this company is doing this, it's not right, anti consumer bla bla is bullshit.
Just make good old fashioned games and the fans will come.
there is some quote I was thinking about, can't remember where it is from, a movie perhaps.
We will build it and they will come. Aggh old age.
ArcaneNLSC
Member
fair point
TBiddy
Member
Absolutely they can. FWIW I think it's nice that Microsoft has finally begun investing in proper first-party. It's 5 years too late, sure, but better late than never. Now we just need to play another round of "wait for E3!".
Thirty7ven
Banned
We really need the price and that first round of H2H.
The limit has been reached on bullshit fud.
The limit has been reached on bullshit fud.
Empire Strikes Back
Member
You have a point. But it becomes easier to sell the console when you can advertise it comes with Cyberpunk for free (with the inevitable 1-3 months of free GP), even though you’re not getting the copy. I’m saying that just trying to guess what they’ll do not to be massacrated on the Holiday season.
KingT731
Member
This is what I don't get. On the PC side it would be like getting upset that newer games don't run well on your 8 year old GPU. Phil got folks sipping the Kool-Aid though
SaucyJack
Member
This is 2020, there is no individual any more. You’re either a victim or an oppressor based on your group membership.
FunkMiller
Member
I never understood why exclusives are considered as anti-consumer.
Gaming is a luxury, you choose to buy into your preferred system. These big companies love to spin, that's it, if the tables were reversed the other company would be doing the exact same thing.
I have never understood why it is so hard for Microsoft to just do the bare minimum.
They have so much money available to them, all the resources in the world but somehow they have got themselves into this massive muddle of always seeming to fuck up.
Just produce quality games, that is in essence what people want, nothing else.
all this or, spin, this company is doing this, it's not right, anti consumer bla bla is bullshit.
Just make good old fashioned games and the fans will come.
there is some quote I was thinking about, can't remember where it is from, a movie perhaps.
We will build it and they will come. Aggh old age.
The weird thing is, Microsoft have done everything right in the past. The 360 launch and its first few years were brilliantly handled. It’s baffling that they haven’t just rinsed and repeated. They had the methodology right, but for some reason they’ve spent the last decade permanently getting in the way of themselves.
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BurnCoalMeltPole
Member
The CPU & GPU feature set is largely common, but overall these features appear to be organized differently to achieve different ends. We already know that the PS5 has a streamlined I/O system to bring the SSD storage very close to memory. It sounds like its Geometry Engine will allow exceptional performance (see back-face culling), but will take some time to learn how to properly make use of it. So, at this point I would say the PS5 is designed around efficiency and pushing as much data as possible while avoiding contention over resources. The Xbox appears to be more closely aligned with traditional PC architecture, and of course it uses DirectX which pushes abstractions that may improve cross platform compatibility. And there are probably more customizations for both systems that have yet to be officially acknowledged.
Similarly, the PS4 makes extensive use of asynchronous compute. And though use of this feature is entirely optional, it greatly helps with GPU utilization as demonstrated by some of the stellar first party titles, allowing the console to effectively ‘punch above its weight’ so to speak. While the PS4 has a high bandwidth bus to a unified pool of memory, the Xbox One has a low bandwidth bus, requiring the careful use of a large APU cache to achieve decent performance.
Both the PS3 and 360 used PowerPC CPU cores, but the PS3 required the use of the vector processors (SPEs) in order to get even decent performance, a headache for many developers because of the specialized skill set required. Vector processing basically started out in high performance scientific computing in the 1970s (see Cray-1). The 360’s GPU was more advanced with unified shaders, but the Cell Processor was almost like having GPU compute a generation early.
Getting games up and running on the new systems is supposed to be easy, but fully leveraging the platforms will be harder and require extensive use of the customizations.
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