How do you even define this? How can you possibly know if Miles Morales started pre-production as a PS4 game? How do you know that Flight Simulator didn't get a Xbox One port once Microsoft realised they could scale it?I think the point is more to identify games that weren't inevitably going to be cross gen ANYWAY, regardless of the stated MS policy. So we can judge the actual effects of that policy.
Battletoads isn't pushing any boundaries technically, so obviously that's going to be cross gen. Similar for Gears Tactics, which is also already out.
Grounded and Psychonauts were both likely well into development before those studios were acquired, so not really relevant to this apparent diktat that first party games should be cross gen. They'd have been developed for cross gen all along.
This is why Lockhart is a BIG deal. With a cheap 1080p next gen console MS can kill the last gen consoles fast and devs can start releasing next gen only games without worrying that much for the installed user base.
Grounded is in early access, but isn't "officially" launched. The rest aren't available on console or in the case of Psychonauts, available anywhere.
You're ignoring first party games because it makes your list look more barren. All of those games will be cross-gen, likely in in the first few months.
If you had five first party Sony titles in 20/21 you'd be thrilled, so why ignore that Xbox will have at least that when you're critisizing them? They might not be games you'd like or would play, but that doesn't make them any less cross gen or any less first party.
Indie first party games? Awesome.I'm sorry but you've just confirmed the first party output for the first couple of years at least is absolutely dire. You're listing indie games already on PC and fucking Flight Simulator to try and pad the line up, which says everything. If you want to keep smiling and pretending this is great, go for it.
But your time would be better served being honest and putting pressure on MS to improve.
Indie first party games? Awesome.
Ignoring that contradiction in terms, quality is subjective. Quantity isn't. So why leave them off your list?
Edit: Also, that's the first party line up for probably the first three to six months, save Halo. Spiderman will be a better traditional AAA than any of those games, but Sony will probably just have 1 first party title in the time it takes Microsoft to bring all those titles to console.
So at leasr compare apples to apples.
Indie first party games? Awesome.
Ignoring that contradiction in terms, quality is subjective. Quantity isn't. So why leave them off your list?
Edit: Also, that's the first party line up for probably the first three to six months, save Halo. Spiderman will be a better traditional AAA than any of those games, but Sony will probably just have 1 first party title in the time it takes Microsoft to bring all those titles to console.
So at leasr compare apples to apples.
How do you even define this? How can you possibly know if Miles Morales started pre-production as a PS4 game? How do you know that Flight Simulator didn't get a Xbox One port once Microsoft realised they could scale it?
You don't and can't. You can only say which games will be cross gen. Leaving, what?, 200 per cent of them out after arbitrarily declaring them "not what we're talking about" does nothing for the conversation, but does conveniently push the no games narrative.
150+ million install base vs...0 so far.
Any big budget production in the next year will either need "incentives" from the platform holders to be next gen exclusive or it will need to be cross gen to reach as many customers as possible. That`s not something new though. The first 1-2 years are always the cross gen phase where the last gen is slowly faded out while the next gen install base grows.
How do you even define this? How can you possibly know if Miles Morales started pre-production as a PS4 game? How do you know that Flight Simulator didn't get a Xbox One port once Microsoft realised they could scale it?
When it releases on PS5 this holiday, you can expect near-instant loading, ray-tracing, and 3D audio. Characters have been updated with 4D scans with improved skin shading and “spline-based” hair that will move more naturally. Insomniac has also updated many of the city’s assets.
Nope, Halo cross gen, Flight Simulator, Grounded, Gears Tactics, Battletoads does nothing to interest me at all. If you're excited for this, fill your boots...I guess.
People have been saying this for months. Onky you diehard xbox fans wouldn't believe it.You guys believe Digital Foundry when its convenient and call him a FUD otherwise.
Well to be fair there is a thread about how bad digital foundry is and there are a lot of posts on there against them, now they come out with negative news about xbox they suddenly believed 100%. What they are saying is true its just posters on here pick and choose what they want to believe all the time. Negative and sony its a lie positive about xbox its a lie. Halo getting delayed is they worst thing ever!!! Forgetting DriveClub was delayed as a launch game to. Just people pick and choose or are very forgetfulPeople have been saying this for months. Onky you diehard xbox fans wouldn't believe it.
Phil SpencerWho didn't see this coming?
Step 1: Drop all support for Xbox One, starting with Halo Infinite. That includes everything from OG 2013 XBone to Xbox One S.
Step 2: Cancel Lockhart / "Xbox Series S"
Step 3: Do not charge more than $499 for Xbox Series X
Step 4: Relaunch Halo Infinite at an XO event in late 2022, release December 2022, complete with MP. True next-gen graphics. Great SP Story Campaign, with payed DLC planned for 2023, 2024, etc.
Good for you. Don't buy a Series X. Hell, if you're not interested, why spend so much time talking about it? Think of all the great things you could get done if you put your mind to it.Nope, Halo cross gen, Flight Simulator, Grounded, Gears Tactics, Battletoads does nothing to interest me at all. If you're excited for this, fill your boots...I guess.
It's almost like the forum isn't an echo chamber. A wide variety of opinions on display gives the lazy observer an impression of shifting popularities.Well to be fair there is a thread about how bad digital foundry is and there are a lot of posts on there against them, now they come out with negative news about xbox they suddenly believed 100%. What they are saying is true its just posters on here pick and choose what they want to believe all the time. Negative and sony its a lie positive about xbox its a lie. Halo getting delayed is they worst thing ever!!! Forgetting DriveClub was delayed as a launch game to. Just people pick and choose or are very forgetful
My point is that most of you have no clue what anti-consumer practices means.No but the only one that I play every once in a while is Fortnite and I don't need a subscription for that.
What was your point that both can be anti-consumer at times?
But you're defending a guy who left a bunch of games off his list to cause trouble, and he basically admitted as much. Honestly, you did a better job of it than he did. At least you had a point.It's a matter of judging nuance.
I didn't say anything about Flight Sim, I'm not really sure what the deal is there.
But regarding the others, it doesn't look like they're cross gen as a result of MS's strategy, just what you'd ordinarily expect. And I'm talking about next gen games getting a current gen version here, btw, not the other way round, as that's where the controversy comes from.
I'm not pushing some kind of no game agenda. I'd have thought what I'm saying is actually in defence of Xbox. Because the complaint is generally, oh this cross gen strategy is really going to hold games back, and I'm saying no, doesn't look like many of their next gen games will actually be cross gen. Only Halo, really.
Good for you. Don't buy a Series X. Hell, if you're not interested, why spend so much time talking about it? Think of all the great things you could get done if you put your mind to it.
Instead of that, you're doing the equivalent of:
Sony first party games: ???.
"HAHA, Sony has no games." (if you look at my highly biased list ignoring the games announced.)
Third party. Potential customers. 170 Million of them vs ~2 million by end of September.The question is why are devs working on ps4 and xbox one if they hate the jaguar cpu and have a hard time scaling? They are free to make next gen only games as they are 3rd party studio.
Nope, Halo cross gen, Flight Simulator, Grounded, Gears Tactics, Battletoads does nothing to interest me at all. If you're excited for this, fill your boots...I guess.
XSX being held back by PC, i love this forum sometimes.In regards to XSX being held back, this will always be the case for first party games, as they will have to support PC release. They wont be able to design games to the XSX spec + SSD due to PC minimum specs (HDD etc). So even if they drop XB1 versions, they are still held back.
And yes, designing games around SSD is a thing that will happen on PS5 first party and its a big deal. I.e. not just impacting level load times by the way.
If that's the level of his contribution, hopefully he'll be gone again before long.There's a reason he was perm-banned a while ago.
It's almost like you're being hyperbolic, and what people were actually complaining about with DF was that several, but not all of their staff had an obvious bias in Xbox's favour.There is nothing more entertaining than watching the exact same people that last week were furious about DIGITAL FOUNDRY and were calling them "PAID MICROSOFT SHILLS" to now praise their insight.
Its like going to a carnaval, only with automatic social distancing applied.
There are more flip-flops in you, than both xbox x and ps5 combined.
Try to remember this next time you make bold statements and attack other people
Are you seriously going to suggest that OP didn’t raise concerns about the Xbox Series X specifically behind held back by the Xbox one, even going so far as to put them in bigger for and bold them, yet didn’t even mention a peep about the PS4 doing the same thing for the PS5? Or how the title specifically only mentioned the Xbox and conveniently left out any mention of PlayStation also holding it back?Well, it’s funny how the OP mentions both platforms but the usual posters just read what they want
From the reports the S is literally an X with less CUs on the gpu and a bit less RAM. It’s literally a 1080p max Series X. There’s no porting to be done. Lower the resolution and possibly LOD of some characters and models and you’re done.It may have a similar architecture but it's still underpowered compared to the X and you will need resources to "port" the game, this will increase development costs. I still think it's a terrible ideia overall. Having to support one console is hard enough, but two?
You're falling into the trap of assuming the 'average gaming PC' is owned by an enthusiast who knows what good specs are, was willing to pay a premium for it or built their rig themselves.XSX being held back by PC, i love this forum sometimes.
Out of 2 Microsoft showings, and one Sony showing, we have had 2 games (Rachet and The Medium) that have used the magical SSD's in any 'revolutionary' way, and one of them is already coming to PC.
Most PC gamers already have SSD's, and it will just be the way its always been with PC gaming, you get the spec sheets showing what you need to run the game, and you either have the hardware needed, or you dont.
Yeah, just like everyone said porting to last gen consoles means just putting down a few settings and lowering the resolution, I'm calling bollocks on this until we see actual proof of XSX games that are demonstrably superior graphically and feature wise to PS5 exclusives, while also working perfectly on XSS.From the reports the S is literally an X with less CUs on the gpu and a bit less RAM. It’s literally a 1080p max Series X. There’s no porting to be done. Lower the resolution and possibly LOD of some characters and models and you’re done.
The same tiresome 'facts' that console gamers say about PC gaming, the 'tiny' amount of PC gamers that have high end PC's. The 1060, 2060, and 2070 are currently the most used gpu's on Steam, all 3 cards more powerful than the most powerful console currently in the OneX. And once the 3000 series cards launch, you will quickly see the 3060 and 3070 become the most used cards on Steam, both cards more powerful than either next gen console.You're falling into the trap of assuming the 'average gaming PC' is owned by an enthusiast who knows what good specs are, was willing to pay a premium for it or built their rig themselves.
Most people don't spend more than $700 dollars on a PC/laptop, even when it comes to gaming. Most are prebuilt, using cheap parts and more people are playing using integrated graphics than the top end GPUs.
This is why console generations and a clean break from old hardware are so vital, even for PC, because it raises the baselime for multiplatform titles in a way PC game development would never be able to get away with.
This is part of why MS's stratergy of releasing everything on PC has faced critiscm.
By catering to PC players, they will have to either build the game to ensure it can be played by those with toaster levels of power, or exclude a huge amount of PC gamers by setting the minimum system requirements well above what most players own.
Take SSD's for example. Even assuming you're right, and most PC gamers have SSD's, you'd still be talking about the cheapest, slowest, and least reliable ones being the most commonly used, and thus the same problem of either lowering the games quality to take that into account, or excluding most players, will still exist.
They may well be taking a 'consumer friendly' approach by going multiplatform, but they have to hobble their own studios to do so, unless they're planning on making PC games that only the tiny minority of PC players with high end specs will be able to play.
It may have a similar architecture but it's still underpowered compared to the X and you will need resources to "port" the game, this will increase development costs. I still think it's a terrible ideia overall. Having to support one console is hard enough, but two?
Who said that though? Who has said that porting to shitty 10 year old netbook CPUs was easy? No one.Yeah, just like everyone said porting to last gen consoles means just putting down a few settings and lowering the resolution, I'm calling bollocks on this until we see actual proof of XSX games that are demonstrably superior graphically and feature wise to PS5 exclusives, while also working perfectly on XSS.
It's almost like you're being hyperbolic, and what people were actually complaining about with DF was that several, but not all of their staff had an obvious bias in Xbox's favour.
By extension, given that slight bias in their favour, it adds greater weight to their credibility when making a statement critical of Xbox, not less.
The only flip flopping here is you desperately flailing around for an excuse as to why we shouldn't be taking this seriously.
Sounds like the marketing BS actually worked because I remember quite a few people saying it wouldn't affect the games
Shhhhhhh.......don't spoil it. It entertains meWhat’s with all the FUD lately? Can’t wait for thesw systems to launch people fight on who has the better games instead.
It's almost like the forum isn't an echo chamber. A wide variety of opinions on display gives the lazy observer an impression of shifting popularities.
The PS5 and XSX are on a par with a 2070/2080, cards which have been out for years now, and only about 5-6% of steam users are equaling or bettering:The same tiresome 'facts' that console gamers say about PC gaming, the 'tiny' amount of PC gamers that have high end PC's. The 1060, 2060, and 2070 are currently the most used gpu's on Steam, all 3 cards more powerful than the most powerful console currently in the OneX. And once the 3000 series cards launch, you will quickly see the 3060 and 3070 become the most used cards on Steam, both cards more powerful than either next gen console.
The Medium, one of the 2 games that use the magical SSD's in any impressive way, is already coming to PC, and correct me if i'm wrong, it doesnt even specify needing a SSD. I think it reccomends one, but its not needed.
I swear this is the first new console gen for some of you. I mean i know the PS4/XB1 were pretty low spec at launch, but new console gens usually have powerful new consoles. Look at 360 when it launched, and its 720p/60 port of COD2, the kind of PC you needed to match it was very high end.