Handy Fake
Member
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Moridianae
Member
Nonsense. We know that PS5 development kits have been in hand for far longer than the Xbox.
The difference between the two consoles in power isn't that large. Multiplat games may have a slight edge on XSX, but not world-ending.
Microsoft does *not* have time or room. You have only a couple of big chances to make a case for your system. Thus far, they have failed to show me anything along with many others.
Halo: Infinite was an absolutely tragic showing. Time and room? Their biggest title looked like a current-gen title(because it also is). You can't make a case for next-gen power with that travesty. Now it's delayed, the biggest system seller potential they needed. That is a sour taste that lingers.
You mention PS5 games could run on PS4 minus bells and whistles. I'll grant you a grain of salt and say maybe you're right--even so, at least they chose to SHOW next generation technology.
splattered
Member
Well to be fair both Microsoft and Sony have done that very thing... they both have consoles to sell afterall.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Your logic is stupid. If they were releasing in 2019 then TLOU2 and Ghosts would have been made for it and not PS4. They would also have had their announced titles ready last year when they’re not even gold yet.
Mr. PlayStation
Member
you sound idiotic, but go on the day has been slow and I'd like some laughs and so would everyone else here.
TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
if you mean the way they tried to downplay og xbone being the less capable console, I agree and I have many times blamed them for that. edit: also it didn't help them, as we all know
other than that though, they've been in comparison very straightforward.
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TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
they preferred to get your money now, because 120 million install base, and re-cash on them 1 year later with the re-releases on ps5Your logic is stupid. If they were releasing in 2019 then TLOU2 and Ghosts would have been made for it and not PS4. They would also have had their announced titles ready last year when they’re not even gold yet.
its not the first time we see this, no?
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bitbydeath
Gold Member
A console launch with 0 games would be a first.
splattered
Member
Uhhhh well yes, PS5 development kits have been in hand for far longer than Xbox - that's what i've been saying?
And yes i agree, Sony has blown MS out of the water with their game reveals. I would never ever dispute that.
That's why i say MS has time and room... time to work on current games to wow us next year, and room for improvement as devs come to grips with the increase in power and new tools.
In a couple years both sides will have had ample time to work with the dev kits and we will see advantages in XSX game performance. I didn't say BETTER GAMES, obviously that comes down to studio talent. I am only talking performance.
I do think people are underestimating the studio investments they've made in the last couple years, we will see some awesome stuff come out of the new studios and expanded teams.
(I would personally nuke 343 and start over though - lost cause)
Handy Fake
Member
Here they come!
splattered
Member
Yep and i've said that here time and time again.
Close out the PS4 gen continuing to sell as many current gen consoles as they can with a few amazing titles that they could have charged extra money for enhanced versions on PS5, yet MS started shouting about Smart Delivery (nothing new) and now Sony will look like complete asses if they try and charge for upgrades for those games.
Moridianae
Member
If there were such a disparaging gap between the two systems, you would see a lot of it reflected in what developers or reputable journalists have to say on the system power levels.
It isn't there. Many developers are singing praises of PS5s capabilities and they aren't first-party either.
Both system are *incredibly* powerful in their own right. We, as gamers, have never had double-digit TFs, SSDs, higher end CPUs and ample RAM.
You can't base power with respect to the PS4 Pro or the Xbox One X, because those systems were inherently held back due to the mandate of both base and enhanced systems being able to run a game well. The true power of those was never really accessed, to be frank.
You're going from a 1.84TF system to a 10+ and a 1.4TF to 12.1. That is a ludicrous increase in power. Why Microsoft has failed to showcase that effectively is a mystery.
It isn't there. Many developers are singing praises of PS5s capabilities and they aren't first-party either.
Both system are *incredibly* powerful in their own right. We, as gamers, have never had double-digit TFs, SSDs, higher end CPUs and ample RAM.
You can't base power with respect to the PS4 Pro or the Xbox One X, because those systems were inherently held back due to the mandate of both base and enhanced systems being able to run a game well. The true power of those was never really accessed, to be frank.
You're going from a 1.84TF system to a 10+ and a 1.4TF to 12.1. That is a ludicrous increase in power. Why Microsoft has failed to showcase that effectively is a mystery.
geordiemp
Member
So what was Microsofts strategy then for 2020 release ? I notice you like talking about Sony, What about MS ?
No games shown running on XSX ?
Halo
PC representative shown in most cases
No AAA first party announced or hinted at in release window.
Whats up ? MS have taken on allot of work with XSX server blade design with 4 instances of xb1 games running with a server grade CPU, all hypervisor and abstraction Dx11 and Dx12 which also has to be a console with velocity architecture development releasing in a couple of months (from hotchips).
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JonnyMP3
Member
You do know that thing you call 'Time' isn't infinite, right? It's not even a resource in this case.
The time you're referring to is actually 'patience' of the public conscious and the more time Microsoft takes... The less of it people will have for the Xbox.
So the more time Xbox takes to produce stuff... The more 'time' Sony has to beat MS to a pulp by already occupying the bigger marketshare again... And Xbox have to rely on Gamepass for a fraction of the potential profit.
splattered
Member
I agree with you mostly, but again MS has failed to showcase it because their dev kits haven't been in the hands of developers as long because their next gen time frame was further out than PS5.
2160p vs 1800p and 60fps vs 50fps would be enough for me to buy all multiplats on XSX, just like it is now on X1X.
Just like this gen, more of my gaming will take place on XSX but i will also buy a PS5 for first party games and enjoy them as well.
Moridianae
Member
Gamers are a fickle bunch. Hurry up and wait for whatever Microsoft has cooking is a tough sell.
Their first-party repertoire is good, but they haven't really gone in on it. Rare is but a former shadow and hasn't put out those magical gems in years, save for a couple of good ones.
By your own admittance, Sony has hitherto hurt them badly in game reveals. First impressions DO matter.
*If*(big) Sony really has those heavy hitters, as they are confident to claim the "best lineup in the history or PlayStation", it'll be hard to wait when things like GT7, God of War, FF16(if exclusive) are slamming down in the first year whilst you're waiting on Halo Infinite to salvage itself(which I hope it can be) or Fable, which doesn't even have writers at the moment.
I want to see Microsoft succeed, but I believe the vision of what next-gen is to them is too much of a mixed bag.
zaitsu
Banned
Thats the best option IMO.
But as i can go with only PS5, i cant with only XSX.
splattered
Member
I am 100% expecting Sony to come out in the lead and stay that way the entire gen, it will never change. Not even a perfect Halo Infinite showing could reverse Microsoft's fortune because there are too many Sony casuals that buy a system play a game on it and then let it sit on the shelf collecting dust for the next 5+ years. It's still a console sold and that's what matters to numbers people.
Mr. PlayStation
Member
you sound idiotic, but go on the day has been slow and I'd like some laughs and so would everyone else here.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Why were they waiting for devkits when they could have been building against a PC with similar level specs? Sonys games weren’t put together in a year.
splattered
Member
JonnyMP3
Member
Now pay attention.
You see the bolded part?
That is called 'Projection'
It's called projection because you're somehow hoping that the PS5 suffers the same fate that the Xbox One did in this generation.
What train of thought makes you think that the machine with an extensive list of games to play... sits on a shelf compared to the machine that has far less games to play??
CrysisFreak
Banned
Ratchet is obviously a next-gen showcase, not a PS4 game with bells and whistles.
So is Horizon FW. So is Demon's Souls.
These games are not ready for show because they targeted current-gen, they're ready for show because their games pipeline is just that good, delivering high quality in the last year of current-gen and in the first year of next-gen. Nothing insane about it. Just hard work.
So is Horizon FW. So is Demon's Souls.
These games are not ready for show because they targeted current-gen, they're ready for show because their games pipeline is just that good, delivering high quality in the last year of current-gen and in the first year of next-gen. Nothing insane about it. Just hard work.
splattered
Member
Because they were? Which is why they were shown running on PC's... not XSX
PS5 games shown running on the system because they had earlier next gen plans and dev kits have been out longer.
Moridianae
Member
Sony..casuals?
Casuals exist across both sides and the thing about a casual is their decisions are easily swayed depending on content offered(such as CoD maps, etc).
Nobody buys a system and it sits for 5 years.
Even the biggest damned casuals I know(CoD and Madden zombies) turn it on a few times a year, each year.
Casuals exist across both sides and the thing about a casual is their decisions are easily swayed depending on content offered(such as CoD maps, etc).
Nobody buys a system and it sits for 5 years.
Even the biggest damned casuals I know(CoD and Madden zombies) turn it on a few times a year, each year.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Most were CGI trailers they put together that same month and then there’s the state of Halo.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
It's a great educational program, but some still see it as a game due to game starvation. It's great for what it's meant to, train and educate amateur pilots.
FranXico
Member
Care to elaborate on what exactly were they misleading and how are they making their fans dumb?
TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
-first of all, in my opinion halo would be a fantastic day1 release. open world halo, cross-generation free multiplayer and 120fps on new xbox would be simply amazing.
I dont know what exactly cluttered the minds of those that make decisions, but I hope it was covid-related difficulties on development and not the craig trolling.
-about pc showings, I wrote a post yesterday complete with links and evidence showing how microsoft always uses PCs for their demos before release, and some hands-on proof. they did it on og xbox, 360, xbone, and you know what?
always the release machine would perform better than the early pc-systems they used.
in fact wasn't you that showed me a post a couple of weeks ago from beyond3d saying that there are newer box dev kits that will replace the old, in order for dev kits to catch up to the performance of the final retail units? I think it was you, forgive me if I am mistaken here.
-about first parties. it would take a fool to not see how microsoft the last years has been investing on first party. it would also take a fool to not realize how this is in perfect parallel trajectory with their plans to be the netfix of games. and games you can even play on your phone or your tv. and yes, the server blades also add up to this.
on their show, they only showed games from 60% of their first party co's , who are still growing by the way. they also claimed that more expanding of their first party portfolio of co's
-you might talk about hypervisor etc like its bad, but thats why we aren't getting anything remotely close to xbox enhanced BC on the playstation. so think again.
for example the new machine is going to offer ML HDR on all old games. and by old, I mean even those from the very first xbox generation.
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FeiRR
Banned
Well, I prefer games to be made on and for the system I play with. If you're okay with whatever they throw at you, your choice.
And the second part just confirms that Sony has a strategy, roadmap and vision while Xbox has a short-sighted manager who can't think two years ahead. If you run such a big business and you can't do that, you're useless.
TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
after the console is out, you go ahead and rewatch cerny's sweet-talk speech. if you have any questions then, I will answer
JonnyMP3
Member
That's called... 'Sidestepping'
FranXico
Member
What did Cerny lie about, oh wisest of us all?
Vae_Victis
Banned
After the collective denial and rage following the Halo debacle, it looks like we are entering the bargaining phase now.
"Yeah, it will be a tough first year for Xbox, and maybe there won't really be all that many games worth playing at launch. But, you see, it's ONLY because the people at PlayStation lied and played a dirty trick, that will bite them in the back sooner rather than later. You'll see when the multiplatforms come out and everybody realizes that XSX is actually next-gen and PS5 is not."
"Also, Sony is pure evil and only does good when Microsoft (which is almost pure good) forces them to. And PlayStation gamers are dumb casuals."
Handy Fake
Member
TheGreatWhiteSnark
TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
I have written MANY posts here calling out cerny for how he deliberately misleads on that speech of his.
you can use the search function if you like.
FranXico
Member
The "speech", you mean the video made from the canceled GDC presentation? The most cringe I got out of it was the CU comparisons for TF damage control. Otherwise, it was tolerable marketing wise.
Do share again please. Us simpletons need to be freed from the shackles of Evil Sony.
TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
I have been baited many times to be elaborate and re-write things that I've already written, only to get a silly response and a stupid gif.
excuse me if I have better things to do than always repeat myself for nothing. just use the forum's search function if you like. its pretty good
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FranXico
Member
I can't find them though. Could it be you were under a different username back then? Is that you, R600?
FeiRR
Banned
Sure, blame it on the pandemic. The problem is, it's been here since March this year, not the last five years of Halo making.
Yes, they do that. At the same time they spread lies about power of their system. At this gen launch users got to know how lame X1 was just mere weeks before the release. One of the closest kept secrets was Call of Duty: Ghosts running in 720p on X1. When shit hit the fan, there was a lot of damage control over internet with the usual puppets including Digital Foundry and many shills here on GAF. What we see now from posters like you is strikingly similar in form and content.
They showed CGI trailers of IPs they own and which were assigned to their studios. Some of those studios haven't even started making those games. We also know now that last year's Halo trailer was outsourced and complete bullshit having nothing to do with the actual state of the game. I think this will repeat many times in future.
Enjoy playing again your old games. I'll be playing new ones.
JonnyMP3
Member
You're a GAFFER! Don't fucking Bullshit us more than the normal Xbox crap now.
And carry on deflecting with excuses. You might choose to believe them yourself, but the rest of us clearly have your number. So yeah... Just stop repeating yourself then please!
Have a nice day doing something better than repeating the same old tired Sony and Microsoft console war stuff. Look forward to not reading you.
Rea
Member
Source?
Handy Fake
Member
Apollo Helios
Member
Shhh stop making sense or some fanatics will bait target you next!
I'm glad someone was paying attention. Yes GE in PS5 and whatever Geometry labeled stuff they showed on Hot Chips presentation is different insofar that PS5 GE is much more advanced than the standard RDNA 2 feature XSX has. Sony and AMD collaborated on advanced culling which is realized on hw that is based on more than 4 patents. Those were what Matt from Twitter was alluding to in his posts and what he argued with an MS engineer working on Xbox, and this MS engineer, right after being handed the proverbial ass, he then went on to delete his tweets. From which I surmised Sony knows their shit and not brute forcing anything and everything, instead opting to customize their SoC instead of enlarging it in size by doubling everything. Their solutions are not to double everything but instead what can they do to eliminate bottlenecks here, there and bazillion other places so it works like a well oiled machine at incredible and previously unheard of speeds/clocks.Maybe, but do we know the geometry engine is the same. I thought it was mentioned for a while now that xbox version may be less advanced... im sureApollo Helios showed deleted tweets between a microsoft employee breaking nda and matt hargett....
Also does the coherency hardware means it the same? I know cache scrubbers were unique to PS.
Just seems so many more questions.
We still have not seen PS5 SoC die-shot, and I do not understand the immediate rejection of secret sauce so far as making it a meme and ridiculing it when in fact there are many of those present for real on the hardware and they will be like fatal slaps in the face when revealed. The slaps are already in motion mere millimeters away from skin, it is already too late to react and dodge out of its path if you know anything at all in the timeline of fabbing and taping out of chips.
Let me remind you almost every FUD attack against PS5 also revealed actual real disadvantages and bottlenecks that XSX has, so they are attacking where they are lacking in reality to spread misinformation that they are at least on par in their disadvantage, or when not in par they have gibberish marketing term non-real solutions to overcome those disadvantages etc. so that there is narrative that at least both have similar solutions, when in fact theirs are bad attempts at veiling the reality, when you drop the curtain, we will all see that it is not the Wizard of Oz behind. The real wizards are Mr Cerny and all the other nameless patent holding genius engineers working behind the scenes. How many patents have seen from Sony camp (some are still censored and getting reveled as we move closer to street date), and compare that to MS patents we've seen once or twice in the entire thread and you will know the truth.
geordiemp
Member
Nobody reads them and its complete gibberish. Gives us a laugh though, so continue.
Most of it you not agreeing with Ps5 principal engineer who has life time acheivement awards and gaming hall of fame, and even has a couple of patents that will apply to ps5 and give benefits. And you are ?
FUD bingo is fun though. We believe our eyes of games running, that is the benchmark of how well stuff works.
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T
Three Jackdaws
Unconfirmed Member
Your right, the lighting in Horizon Forbidden West is "average", this is not because the devs are lazy or something but because it's actually very hard to implement ray-tracing into games which feature certain types of environments, especially dense foliage. It's one of the reasons why UE5 environment featured absolutely zero foliage. Even the very high end graphics cards struggle with this. The game doesn't come out for another year so if they could pull off some global illuminations then that would look really cool.
TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
see? this is exactly the reason I won't bother to re-write stuff.
so, as I said, after ps5 is out, you guys go rewatch cerny's sweet-talk speech, AND my comments.
maybe you'll understand better then
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Wraith Phantom
Member
I don't understand. Are you fighting to get great games? or not to get games?
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