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[Mahavastu]

Good god, could you imagine if MS launches first, but with nothing of note, and then Sony follows a week or two later with Spider-Man, Ratchet and Clank, Deathloop, Godfall, and Bugsnax? It would be a massacre!

Deathloop was postponed, but there are rumors that Demons Souls comes at launch or very short after that...

 

[sircaw]

- They cancelled a major Fable project in 2018,that quite possibly was a planned next-gen title
- They likely expected Halo Infinite to be amazing and ready by launch
- It's also quite possible they thought Turn 10 could have something ready

Beyond that, they went on a studio buying spree in 2018.. their studios CLEARLY have failed them, and we have no clue if anything they bought or put together in the last 2 years will come to fruition.. they certainly aren't whipping out next gen games in 2 years.

It's likely not "to plan".. hell we KNOW it's not "to plan".. but it's all completely realistic that MS has nothing else in the pipeline to fix this, and they apparently didn't want to go on a big 3rd party spending spree.. they likely spent some bucks on GamePass is the rumor, that's what they have to announce.

Sony on the other hand has far more trustworthy studios, but they are also on easy mode right now.. I mean come on... we have the internet going wild over Ratchet and Clank.. if MS was actually competing what Sony has shown, other than how solid things like graphics look, would not be so amazing. People are just happy they look like they'll easily beat MS at launch, since syztem warz.... otherwise, don't you think Ratchet and Clank would actually be a top selling game in the past? lol

I just can not believe, one of the richest, successful companies have got it so wrong. (AGAIN)This is what really is bothering me. After the last disaster console launch, you expect these things to be corrected.

 

[kyliethicc]

Its bugging me and i don't mean like bugsnaxs.

Microsoft must have something in the pipeline, the showing so far from them has been abysmal, this can't be it.

all these years and this is how they intend to launch, this just can't be it. There has to be some games or something they have in reserve. If this is indeed it, this is a clusterfuck of biblical proportions.

No big first-party games for two years, why even fucking bother releasing a console soon. this can not be how you run a gaming division surely. You have allowed Sony to walk all over you, while you just spun pr stuff.

COVID virus was terrible, but it did not affect the last 5 years of development, wtf have these people been doing otherwise.

companies like Microsoft have plans for the future, they just don't get up in the morning and decide hey we are doing this for the next couple of months, this new console must be many many years in the planning. How has this got to this point?

Either the people at Microsoft gaming are bloody idiots or they have an ace or two up their sleeve.

I just can not believe a multi-billionaire company can be so useless or inept.

well this is always worth recalling when we wonder about Xbox leadership.

 

[sircaw]

well this is always worth recalling when we wonder about Xbox leadership.

was there really silence or is that the editing there lol

Please don't tell me that silence is real after that announcement, that's diabolical lol

I remember watching one of there events in Mexico, they must have hired 100 people to scream and cheer every time he stopped talking.

Like those "Applause" crowds in comedies, if you understand me.

 

[mejin]

was there really silence or is that the editing there lol

Please don't tell me that silence is real after that announcement, that's diabolical lol

I remember watching one of there events in Mexico, they must have hired 100 people to scream and cheer every time he stopped talking.

Like those "Applause" crowds in comedies, if you understand me.

yep, it was true.

That's why when it was Sony's turn, people cheered like they won the world cup.

 

[sircaw]

yep, it was true.

That's why when it was Sony's turn, people cheered like they won the world cup.

holy hell, that is awful. i think i would have cried,

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Here is Why Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart is a True Next-gen Game

Let's jump straight to the 4K screenshots I've made from the video! Put in mind that the video itself is heavily compressed, but I made PNG screenshots to preserve as much details as possible: Raytraced reflections: Looking into this screenshot, you can clearly see Ratchet's raytraced...

www.neogaf.com

Here is Why Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart is a True Next-gen Game

Let's jump straight to the 4K screenshots I've made from the video, put in mind that the video itself is heavily compressed, but I made PNG screenshots to preserve as much details as possible:

Raytraced reflections:

Looking into this screenshot, you can clearly see Ratchet's raytraced reflection on Clank. The red bulb on Clank's head is also reflective on his own body on other frames.

And here is another shot showing the fine reflections on Clank's body/head:

High-quality, raytraced shadows:

You can spot that every hair has its own high-quality shadow:

Even during gameplay, look at the tail fur:

High-quality particles:

Just look at the liquid splash and other particles that can be extremely crowded in some parts of the demo without noticeable penalty in performance.

Extremely fast and dynamic transitions:

Powered by state-of-the-art SSD customization and assisted by extensively detailed I/O.

Dynamic, high-quality damage deformation:

Some objects like the concrete blocks, you can see how different the damage model is and how they dynamically get broken eventually. Look at the side concrete blocks, you can see here even interactive particles of this lightning gun:

Look at the detailed damage and all the debris around:

And here they've been broken:

Infinite draw distance without aliasing:

Whether it's close or far all the way to the outer planets/moons, everything looks insanely sharp as if it's been pulled off directly from a Hollywood CGI movie. Geometry Engines help achieving that without a performance penalty, drawing what's needed to be drawn on screen per frame budget of polygons.

High polygon-count models:

Near-CGI level that made many observers skeptical at first, but it's pretty clear that it will only get better as this latest demo was a refined version of the first one. Due to Geometry Engines and in updated game engines that take advantage of them, no more LOD's that add more wasteful size to game size.

True 3D Audio:

The sound quality is insane in that gameplay demo, use a headset to enjoy it. Many particles create their own sound, like the bullet shells for example. With all the chaos it can be overwhelming, just like in real life, but would be wonderful to spot secret treasures using True 3D Audio when games tend to give unique sound to some collectives. It would appreciated in calmer situations when every sound is noticeable.

======

Hope you enjoyed reading.

Spoiler: More screenshots

 

[Sinthor]

Watched the video from my mobile, but it seemed to me like a lot of detail from the rock textures was missing. Also, on many ocassions the colors looked more washed out and less vibrant.

Hopefully they're just experimenting with various lighting palettes. I mean, it makes no sense to remove details from the textures when the framerate was stable in the reveal ...

Eh....dont' worry about it. Like we learned from Digital Foundry, issues like that are just lighting. Nothing more to see here! j/k

I don't see a loss of detail myself. I do see a different color palette and maybe a bit more muted color..might be the fog though. I'll have to find a clean copy to look at again.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Hmm that a lot of PS5 games have "performance" modes actually says a lot about the system. It isn't able to properly manage native 4K/60fps with amazing graphics, something has to give. Wonder if we'll see the same for XSX, although those first party developers might have to go for 60fps from the start.

Good that they included both options though.

 

[saintjules]

Launching a product during the Christmas sales period is not easy at the best of times, but with the Covid-19 pandemic still disrupting global infrastructure, neither platform holder can be confident of sticking to an exact date for their console launches, even this late in the year.

That’s the reason why the two companies are hesitant to share precise release dates for PS5 and Series X, and why even major retailers and development partners don’t know exactly when to plan for.

According to VGC’s development and retail sources, mid-November is exactly when PlayStation 5 is most likely to land. In the UK, we understand that PlayStation has already booked significant marketing spend for the seven days commencing on Friday, November 13. Multiple retail sources have also told us that a launch during this window would fit within their expectations.

Development and retail sources also agree that Xbox will launch first. Microsoft has told developers to plan towards a launch in the very first week of the November, we understand, which would also give it wiggle room to potentially slip into the second week and still launch ahead of Sony. Xbox sources indicated that the platform holder is also expecting PS5 to arrive within the week commencing November 13.

Analysis: When will PS5 release? | VGC

Retail and development sources point to a mid-November release date for PlayStation, but Covid-19 could yet affect Sony’s plans.

www.videogameschronicle.com

 

[zaitsu]

Here is Why Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart is a True Next-gen Game

Let's jump straight to the 4K screenshots I've made from the video! Put in mind that the video itself is heavily compressed, but I made PNG screenshots to preserve as much details as possible: Raytraced reflections: Looking into this screenshot, you can clearly see Ratchet's raytraced...

www.neogaf.com

Here is Why Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart is a True Next-gen Game

Let's jump straight to the 4K screenshots I've made from the video, put in mind that the video itself is heavily compressed, but I made PNG screenshots to preserve as much details as possible:

Raytraced reflections:

Looking into this screenshot, you can clearly see Ratchet's raytraced reflection on Clank. The red bulb on Clank's head is also reflective on his own body on other frames.

And here is another shot showing the fine reflections on Clank's body/head:

High-quality, raytraced shadows:

You can spot that every hair has its own high-quality shadow:

Even during gameplay, look at the tail fur:

High-quality particles:

Just look at the liquid splash and other particles that can be extremely crowded in some parts of the demo without noticeable penalty in performance.

Extremely fast and dynamic transitions:

Powered by state-of-the-art SSD customization and assisted by extensively detailed I/O.

Dynamic, high-quality damage deformation:

Some objects like the concrete blocks, you can see how different the damage model is and how they dynamically get broken eventually. Look at the side concrete blocks, you can see here even interactive particles of this lightning gun:

Look at the detailed damage and all the debris around:

And here they've been broken:

Infinite draw distance without aliasing:

Whether it's close or far all the way to the outer planets/moons, everything looks insanely sharp as if it's been pulled off directly from a Hollywood CGI movie. Geometry Engines help achieving that without a performance penalty, drawing what's needed to be drawn on screen per frame budget of polygons.

High polygon-count models:

Near-CGI level that made many observers skeptical at first, but it's pretty clear that it will only get better as this latest demo was a refined version of the first one. Due to Geometry Engines and in updated game engines that take advantage of them, no more LOD's that add more wasteful size to game size.

True 3D Audio:

The sound quality is insane in that gameplay demo, use a headset to enjoy it. Many particles create their own sound, like the bullet shells for example. With all the chaos it can be overwhelming, just like in real life, but would be wonderful to spot secret treasures using True 3D Audio. We would appreciated in calmer situations when every sound is noticeable.

======

Hope you enjoyed reading.

Spoiler: More screenshots

Look at that LOD distance, and try to remember LOD in Halo. Funny how it looks worse upclose than R&C in the background.

 

[Imtjnotu]

Don't get the wizards at sony.

How are they doing RT with no RT hardware?!

 

[Thirty7ven]

Everybody should be excited with what we saw from R&C. Even Xbox fans, that's right, even Xbox fans. Why?

Because it's a launch window game that already looks like an interactive animated movie. Can you imagine the kind of shit we will see by 2023? It's going to blow us the fuck away.

 

[zaitsu]

Hmm that a lot of PS5 games have "performance" modes actually says a lot about the system. It isn't able to properly manage native 4K/60fps with amazing graphics, something has to give. Wonder if we'll see the same for XSX, although those first party developers might have to go for 60fps from the start.

Good that they included both options though.

And here he comes, talking bulshit already...
Dude medium, AC is 30 FPS , COD is 4K in 120 fps on both platforms...
If PS5 gonna strugle with 4K, XSX won't be much better. In real world they behave almost the same.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

Everybody should be excited with what we saw from R&C. Even Xbox fans, that's right, even Xbox fans. Why?

Because it's a launch window game that already looks like an interactive animated movie. Can you imagine the kind of shit we will see by 2023? It's going to blow us the fuck away.

Muh interactive movie

 

[chilichote]

Wenn sich das Gefühl der Flauschigkeit verbessert hat, ist das definitiv ein Upgrade!

That's what happens when you translate Japanese to German!

 

[Zoro7]

Hmm that a lot of PS5 games have "performance" modes actually says a lot about the system. It isn't able to properly manage native 4K/60fps with amazing graphics, something has to give. Wonder if we'll see the same for XSX, although those first party developers might have to go for 60fps from the start.

Good that they included both options though.

Why do you try so hard to hate?
What have we seen running at 4K/60 on the Series X?

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Look at that LOD distance, and try to remember LOD in Halo. Funny how it looks worse upclose than R&C in the background.

LOD's are for retards. PS5 doesn't do that shit going forward.

 

[BlueXImpulse]

This guy is spreading FUD like mad. The demo rattled him

Bringing this back in light of the new information.

 

[Saudumm]

was there really silence or is that the editing there lol

It's mostly the editing. There was applause, but only after some hesitation.

Timestamped:

 

[NEbeast]

Hmm that a lot of PS5 games have "performance" modes actually says a lot about the system. It isn't able to properly manage native 4K/60fps with amazing graphics, something has to give. Wonder if we'll see the same for XSX, although those first party developers might have to go for 60fps from the start.

Good that they included both options though.

Cmon, halo wasnt native 4k. Plus, it looked like crap. 4k/60 with bells and whistles brings a 2080ti to its knees. You better get used to it.

 

[sircaw]

It's mostly the editing. There was applause, but only after some hesitation.

Timestamped:

Something ain't right, he is wearing a different t-shirt in the one you linked.

the other was a state of decay one

Ah its def the editing, at the beginning of the clip he is wearing a state of decay one. those cheeky bastards lol.

But yer, there is a pause but not total silence, naughty lol

 

[Three Jackdaws]

Hmm that a lot of PS5 games have "performance" modes actually says a lot about the system. It isn't able to properly manage native 4K/60fps with amazing graphics, something has to give. Wonder if we'll see the same for XSX, although those first party developers might have to go for 60fps from the start.

Good that they included both options though.

I mean 4K@60FPS is really hard to pull of depending on the type of game your producing, the levels of fidelity, detail, visual effects and ray-tracing. All this depends on the power and capabilities of the hardware you're working with. As powerful as the next gen consoles are, I would be skeptical of both of them hitting 4K at 60 FPS whilst also retaining a lot of the details which I mentioned.

Now I am curious how the Sony first party studios hit 4K at 60 FPS, what was sacrificed? ray-tracing? maybe they used dynamic resolutions. Maybe they went through a different route and decided to use a checkerboard or DLSSS like rendering technique to hit the 4K at 60 FPS target and this would also make us speculate on the support for these kind of features on the next gen consoles.

 

[kyliethicc]

Hmm that a lot of PS5 games have "performance" modes actually says a lot about the system. It isn't able to properly manage native 4K/60fps with amazing graphics, something has to give. Wonder if we'll see the same for XSX, although those first party developers might have to go for 60fps from the start.

Good that they included both options though.

No gaming system of any kind can currently deliver 4K 60 Hz gaming with top quality graphical effects. Thats why the Halo 6 gameplay (on high end PC) looked like shit. And that had no RT and wasn't even native 4K, it was dynamic.

The best looking games will always be 30 Hz. Its literally giving the system twice as much time to render every frame.

All that said, Gran Turismo 7 on PS5 is native 4K at 60 Hz and the gameplay looks great. Its got some limited RT, uses basically fixed cameras and FOVs, and is not trying to have detailed human characters animated on screen, among other reasons why a racing game can push fidelity and keep a higher frame rate.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

I mean 4K@60FPS is really hard to pull of depending on the type of game your producing, the levels of fidelity, detail, visual effects and ray-tracing. All this depends on the power and capabilities of the hardware you're working with. As powerful as the next gen consoles are, I would be skeptical of both of them hitting 4K at 60 FPS whilst also retaining a lot of the details which I mentioned.

Now I am curious how the Sony first party studios hit 4K at 60 FPS, what was sacrificed? ray-tracing? maybe they used dynamic resolutions. Maybe they went through a different route and decided to use a checkerboard or DLSSS like rendering technique to hit the 4K at 60 FPS target and this would also make us speculate on the support for these kind of features on the next gen consoles.

Thanks, the only normal response, I agree. Eventually XSX will probably have the same issues, it's not like it can double the framerate compared to PS5.

CoD said they sacrificed ray tracing to get a higher framerate, right? That's probably the easiest thing to remove that has the biggest effect on performance.

 

[ksdixon]

Damn, even Dealer? Maybe 2020 will be the Great Awakening afterall, just not for politics.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Muh interactive movie

dur dur hur ar I thik thingz, rok tee faya

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Wow, all of them are in a transitioning mode to greatness!

 

[ksdixon]

I started playing PlayStation games with the launch of the PS4, I was a huge Xbox fan from 2001-2013 so I never took the time to play a Ratchet game.

Someone bought me Ratchet in 2017 on PS4 to add to my game collection and my response was “thank you!....what the hell is this lol”

I finally played it and loved it, I went back to thank the person again for finding me a game that surprised me and surpassed my expectations of it being a dumb cartoony game.

I just bought Into the Nexus on Amazon for the PS3, I hope to play through that game before Rift Apart!

Wait.. Have you also got a PS3 console? That game won't work on your PS4, sorry to say.

 

[saintjules]

Just to add:

--I understand. Also, what frame rates and resolutions are supported?

Mike: Increasing the visual aesthetics and decreasing the frame rate is a tricky balance to strike in any game. This title focuses on balancing the comfort of the action with the beauty of the graphics, while still allowing players to choose from two different resolutions and frame rates. One is a 4K resolution at 30FPS, and the other is a lower resolution at 60FPS. Players will be able to choose between these two options.

Ishidate: I'd like to add that in Ratchet & Clank, starting in the latter half of the PS3 era, we've chosen to ditch the 60FPS of the PS2 era for 30FPS in order to make the graphics more beautiful, and the actual gameplay has been made at 30FPS. This time around, players can choose whether to go the 60FPS route of the PS2 era or the high resolution & 30FPS route of the PS3 and beyond.

PS5『ラチェット＆クランク:リフトアパート（仮称）』開発者インタビュー。ロード画面は一切ナシ！ コントローラーの新機能で武器ごとに異なる感触を味わえる | ゲーム・エンタメ最新情報のファミ通.com

PS5で発売予定の『ラチェット＆クランク:リフトアパート（仮称）』最新映像を受けて、開発者たちへ気になる質問を投げ掛けたインタビューをお届け。

www.famitsu.com

 

[sircaw]

Hmm that a lot of PS5 games have "performance" modes actually says a lot about the system. It isn't able to properly manage native 4K/60fps with amazing graphics, something has to give. Wonder if we'll see the same for XSX, although those first party developers might have to go for 60fps from the start.

Good that they included both options though.

Sometimes it's hard for me to like you......

I DONT WANNA HEAR IT. NO, DONT BOTHER REPLYING. YOUR IN THE DOG HOUSE FOR TODAY.

 

[husomc]

There were rumors that there were dev kits that had overheating issues. But apparently they sent out new ones that didn't have those issues. I remember @OsirisBlack mentioned it plus some other insiders as well.

I haven't heard about any issues with the retail console though.

do we even mention that name anymore ? he's like he who must not be named

 

[sircaw]

Wow, all of them are in a transitioning mode to greatness!

If Dealer and Eastwood change sides i am buying a bloody xbox.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Hmm that a lot of PS5 games have "performance" modes actually says a lot about the system. It isn't able to properly manage native 4K/60fps with amazing graphics, something has to give. Wonder if we'll see the same for XSX, although those first party developers might have to go for 60fps from the start.

Good that they included both options though.

I will never understand how somebody can spend so much time in enthusiast gaming forums, in a thread like this no less, and still have no idea how game development works.

Like... HOW

 

[ksdixon]

It's weird how come all the MS shills have come out in unison yesterday with very similar messages of discontent? Cynical part of me thinks this is marketing as they know MS will show something soon

The only thing MS can do for XB that would make people's dick stand up is to buy SEGA. But even then we've already had the three "dream games" in Sonic Mania, Streets Of Rage 4 and Shenmue 3.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

There will of course be a PS5 slim, just like every PlayStation. PS1 slim, PS2 slim, PS3 slim, PS4 slim, its gonna happen.

And it will of course be waiting for a die shrink. PS4 was 28nm, PS4 slim was 16nm. PS5 7nm, PS5 slim 5nm or 3nm.

I just don't care about more power for a half step mid gen Pro model. Save that for PS6. For mid gen, just make it smaller, less expensive, and draw less power. Offer a sku w/ more storage.

A die shrink drops power consumption and makes less heat, less heat and less power drawn allows for smaller box. Cerny back in 2013 said the size of the PS4 was determined by the power supply and the amount of heat produced. So they will at least be able to make it a bit smaller, etc.

I forgot to mention, I'm still new to a lot of this stuff and I had no clue the slim consoles incorporated a more advanced node/shrink, I didn't know it worked like that lol I was always shocked at how the manufacturers could significantly reduce the size and heat output of the consoles, makes a lot of sense now.

 

[saintjules]

Him, Colt, Klobrille. They all got together to show their frustration with Xbox it looks like.

Some are in denial though

 

[ksdixon]

Oh you bastard.
I just watched that with a stinking vodka hangover and laughed so hard that all the colour drained from the world and I nearly blew chunks all over the duvet.

You poor bastard. I know that feeling all too well. Get a cup of tea down ya

 

[TrippleA345]

Cerny’s point that to leverage all these features the developers don’t need to do anything special. It’s not special esoteric hardware that only the well funded first-party studios can leverage.

Microsoft’s IO will be just as simple to leverage from a developer point of view. Microsoft doing more of their IO pipeline in software doesn’t mean the developers have to do that. It will be something the Xbox API does behind the scenes for the developer, just not as efficiently as PS5.

About the only thing I can imagine as being more tricky on Xbox is how much your file IO work loads up the main CPU being used by the game—PS5 has separate processors to handle IO. But DirectStorage API is supposed to reduce the amount of time the CPU is tied up.

But there’s no such thing as a free lunch. Less CPU usage without hardware offloading means it’s making a compromise somewhere. Maybe queuing up requests and dispatching them as a single instruction to reduce CPU overhead at the expense of some latency etc.
Not saying that is the compromise being made, but you don’t get something from nothing.

Sony have eliminated traditional filesystem IO and its metadata bottlenecks and felt the need to still offload to a dedicated IO processor.

From the point of view of a developer I’d say the file IO is just as easy to use on Xbox as on PlayStation. The software being done by Xbox to improve efficiency will all be Microsoft code buried in the API the developers use.

"traditional filesystem IO" Whats that? Cerny sad that but in the past I didn't found anything regarding to that .

 

[Saudumm]

Something ain't right, he is wearing a different t-shirt in the one you linked.

the other was a state of decay one

Ah its def the editing, at the beginning of the clip he is wearing a state of decay one. those cheeky bastards lol.

But yer, there is a pause but not total silence, naughty lol

He's wearing the SoD shirt in the video at 27:40

 

[saintjules]

I mean 4K@60FPS is really hard to pull of depending on the type of game your producing, the levels of fidelity, detail, visual effects and ray-tracing. All this depends on the power and capabilities of the hardware you're working with. As powerful as the next gen consoles are, I would be skeptical of both of them hitting 4K at 60 FPS whilst also retaining a lot of the details which I mentioned.

Now I am curious how the Sony first party studios hit 4K at 60 FPS, what was sacrificed? ray-tracing? maybe they used dynamic resolutions. Maybe they went through a different route and decided to use a checkerboard or DLSSS like rendering technique to hit the 4K at 60 FPS target and this would also make us speculate on the support for these kind of features on the next gen consoles.

Good points here. Now please tell it to this guy lol

 

[Nickolaidas]

You're right. Only thing that Sony is doing is showing gameplay. I mean, who the fuck cares about gameplay?

Seriously, the mental gymnastics of some people ....

 

[IntentionalPun]

I just can not believe, one of the richest, successful companies have got it so wrong. (AGAIN)This is what really is bothering me. After the last disaster console launch, you expect these things to be corrected.

Microsoft is basically 3 companies:

- Their actual internal IT, which is huge (the people that manage their internal systems), and is like most other big IT orgs
- The Azure team, which is like a modern startup company full of young people with big ideas who are good at what they do but aren't type A assholes, the current good part of the company. Their framework teams (.Net) are also really in this group.
- Everything else (Windows, Office, whatever)... awful company culture, full of type a assholes, business people who don't know tech as well as they claim, etc. This is the part of the company that was making huge mistakes for a decade+, the "Balmer" part of the company basically

That 3rd portion effects all the groups, and I don't know how much it effects Xbox.. but it's not remotely surprising that a part of MS spends huge money to great failure.

Source: I've consulted there about a half dozen times over the last 20 years, and hated every minute of it outside of my time with the Azure group.

And numerous people I worked with there told me Xbox was a total nightmare.. some of them had worked there, some of them had heard horror stories.

The rumor is, with the new studios.. MS is trying to remove that old culture, let the studios act like young startups/indies... I hope they succeed, but it won't be remotely shocking if they don't.

 

[Vae_Victis]

It's weird how come all the MS shills have come out in unison yesterday with very similar messages of discontent? Cynical part of me thinks this is marketing as they know MS will show something soon

First thing that also came to my mind.

I could understand it if Sony had made some other huge announcements, or Microsoft had shit the bed again at one of their own overhyped events, but really nothing happened yesterday. We saw a demo of Ratchet and Clank that was 90% identical to the one we had already seen in June, just slightly more polished and without a couple of cuts. Xbox still showed nothing, but again they had promised nothing. That's it.

This sudden negative reaction really seems unwarranted now, the right time would have been after the 23 July Xbox event with tons of CGI, 2022+ games and the embarrassment that was the Halo demo. Unless people in the Xbox echochambers had overhyped yesterday's event and were anticipating some mic drops from Microsoft for some reason, that could also explain it.

 

[Entroyp]

You're right. Only thing that Sony is doing is showing gameplay. I mean, who the fuck cares about gameplay?

Seriously, the mental gymnastics of some people ....

Yes, Sony just showed some gameplay, which is what video game consoles do... play games

To be fair to MS they did show us gameplay too... but... well... we know how that went.

 

[MasterCornholio]

First thing that also came to my mind.

I could understand it if Sony had made some other huge announcements, or Microsoft had shit the bed again at one of their own overhyped events, but really nothing happened yesterday. We saw a demo of Ratchet and Clank that was 90% identical to the one we had already seen in June, just slightly more polished and without a couple of cuts. Xbox still showed nothing, but again they had promised nothing. That's it.

This sudden negative reaction really seems unwarranted now, the right time would have been after the 23 July Xbox event with tons of CGI, 2022+ games and the embarrassment that was the Halo demo. Unless people in the Xbox echochambers had overhyped yesterday's event and were anticipating some mic drops from Microsoft for some reason, that could also explain it.

I agree that the Ratchet demo was really just the trailer and the first gameplay demo put together.

But I think why people are so excited was that its a great representation of how the game will actually play. With the previous trailers you can manipulate it more to make it look better but that's hard to do with an uncut gameplay demonstration.

I agree that Sony really didn't do anything new except prove to people they the game will actually play like that.

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

They need SFS to reach the stated figures and therefore don't developers need to implement it at engine level? Don't know if it's as simply as flipping a switch.

SFS is an extension of something already around on last generation and likely a part of any modern game engine. The customisations for XSX augment it. The principal of only loading in parts of a texture file you need to effectively boost IO bandwidth/save RAM isn’t unique to XSX.

Sony would likely have profiling tools that do give them the clock speeds.

From that it's a simple calculation based on the number of CUs to get to TFs, which are always just a theoretical number based on a calculation and not a real measure of the actual calculations being made (as that would require CU utilization numbers).

(not saying the rumor is valid, almost all rumors here are complete BS lol)

It’s entirely bullshit. The only question is whether the guy is unknowledgeable and being taken for a ride by someone else before posting it here, or whether he’s unknowledgeable and trying to take people here for a ride. Either way it’s a #BAMO from me.

Secondly it’s not at all a case of looking at clock speeds and doing some quickmaffs to arrive at some 9.333 (recurring, of course) teraflop number as no game ever even gets near 100% CU occupancy. Synthetic stress test dumb loop code that does could flip each transistor every cycle to technically carry out 10/12 teraflops of useless calculation would cause even the XSX to melt or thermally halt.

Quoting a developer as themselves quoting teraflops figures is laughably stupid. If for some bizarre reason they wanted to do that, they’d have to work out CU occupancy for a particular frame and then try and estimate it. It’s a metric only crazed fans care about, and that is the real source for this “rumour”.

It’s been said many times, but fixed clock doesn’t mean fixed workload per clock tick. It doesn’t mean fixed “teraflops” of calculations being done per unit of time.

There’s a reason a CPU or GPU can be at a fixed frequency and get hot when running a benchmark and be cool to the touch when idling.

Calculation—or work done—consumes electrical power and produces heat. Power and heat can and does vary based on the code being done, even on fixed clocks.

Targeting fixed peak power consumption is a better philosophy than targeting fixed clocks with variable power consumption.

You can’t measure clock speed to determine how much work is being done. You can’t measure clock speed to say “how many teraflops a console is.. hitting or struggling to hit(?!)”.

You can measure power consumption to get a ballpark idea of how much work is being done. Something you can do on any modern gaming PC. Something you can even feel in the room as heat if you cohabit with a ThreadRipper. A ThreadRipper that when running as close as possible to its peak attainable work rate will actually be at a lesser clock than at a single threaded peak load.

You cannot measure how much work its doing by frequency, but you can see it graphed out plain as day in power consumption on a decent PSU.

If the power consumption is staying pegged as high as the chips TDP can handle then you’re at a fixed and maximum work load, regardless of frequency fluctuations.

Your hypothesised developer would be better off profiling power consumption than frequency. In reality they’ll have a GPU utilisation metric to monitor that accounts for it.

That developers are talking about “hitting” teraflop numbers is utter nonsense. Complete and utter tripe as presented by the idiot here vaguely claiming to be quoting whispers in the wind to lend it credence.

The reality of it is that game code—even efficient code with high CU occupancy—rarely loads the CU above 30-40% per unit of time. The rest of the time they’re waiting on results of other things being completed, or are waiting for a cache miss to be rectified by a memory fetch etc.

Neither PS5 no XSX will ever get near their theoretical synthetic stress test maximums while playing any kind of game that reacts to input and is doing lots of different tasks.

How close they get to actually efficiently using the CUs at around 40% will depend way more on the developers, the different graphics APIs, and the slight differences in RDNA2 customisations and cache/memory architecture than the differences in peak figures.

Something people in the know and developers have been saying since before we knew what we were getting. The same people saying the difference between the two is remarkably close.

Closer than 360 and PS3 were, with even less wildcards I’d imagine as the architecture is so much more similar.

Buy for the games, controllers, friends etc. The only things that actually matter and have any real difference.

 

[saintjules]

 

[Vaztu]

MS is trying to remove that old culture, let the studios act like young startups/indies

Thats great to hear. But they need to fill it with quality and not diversity hires. 343i is not a great example right now.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Sony is doing it right. They're offering free upgrades and paid upgrades and no upgrades, basically everything, it is up to the publishers to decide.
As it should be. Maximum freedom, consumers get the choice to tell greedy companies to fuck off. Even if they won't jfl.

If anyone thought MS with 'Smart Delivery' would lock publishers to their policies is totally delusional and naive, they always find a way around. That can even backfire, like how PS owners can upgrade COD for $10 while Xbox owners would have to buy the entire game again. Want to boycott charged upgrades? Do it with your wallet instead of outsourcing the job to companies.