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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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TheGreatWhiteShark

TheGreatWhiteShark

Member
ethomaz said:
TheGreatWhiteShark said:
for example in the thread about nvidia using microsoft methodology for measuring performance, you were wrong.
nvidia DID give numbers both for turing and for ampere RT performance, it was 34 and 58 respectively
Click to expand...
Nope.
And Turing is 45 RT TFs in MS "metrics".
Click to expand...
well.....
ethomas.jpg

enjoy:
 
sircaw

sircaw

Banned
Redlight said:
This kind of comment is where the conflict arises.

GWS made an observation about the actual load time in that clip and showed video to back up his case. The loading is still impressive, it doesn't have to be instantaneous to remain a big step forward. He didn't say it was shit, just that it may not be the instantaneous transition claimed by the super fans.

There's no 'FUD' in such a statement, it's just injecting some reality back into the conversation. However the foot soldiers see any comment that isn't 100% honey dripping praise of the PS5 as a foul insult. Then the unnecessary defence and accusations begin 'the timing is deliberately misleading', 'the frame rate is wrong', etc, etc, etc. Even in the face of clear evidence, the baseless claims continue and the tone becomes more hysterical.

And at the end of it you decide that Thegreatwhiteshark is the problem. Yeah, sure.
Click to expand...

The fact that you guys have spent an entire week talking about the most pointless thing in the universe makes me wonder what the hell is going on.

Of all the things to bloody nitpick about, people found a couple of seconds in an amazing Ratchet and clank demo to have a god damn moan about.

I see perfection when i watch the R+c demo, i just do not understand at all what people are moaning about.

The truth is, i have stopped reading half the posts in regards to it, as soon as i saw time this, time that i was like wtf and stopped paying attention.

all of it seems like a waste of time, i am not interested in it and i very much doubt the fast majority of readers are interested in it either.
 
A

azertydu91

Hard to Kill
sircaw said:
The fact that you guys have spent an entire week talking about the most pointless thing in the universe makes me wonder what the hell is going on.

Of all the things to bloody nitpick about, people found a couple of seconds in an amazing Ratchet and clank demo to have a god damn moan about.

I see perfection when i watch the R+c demo, i just do not understand at all what people are moaning about.

The truth is, i have stopped reading half the posts in regards to it, as soon as i saw time this, time that i was like wtf and stopped paying attention.

all of it seems like a waste of time, i am not interested in it and i very much doubt the fast majority of readers are interested in it either.
Click to expand...
That the problem nothing happened, so the warrior listened their thirst of blood.This will happen every slow news week.And the bullshit gates will open.
 
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R

Redlight

Member
Bo_Hazem said:
WTF is my credibility :lollipop_tears_of_joy: I'm no insider, didn't even bother to time that. Here is a near-good timer, natural one without that BS:




But the guy lags as it should stop when the new world has loaded. Also this is a next gen game, not a legacy game that's lagging 11sec on XSX. So it's at least 10GB offloaded and 10GB loaded in 1-2sec.
Click to expand...


You accused people of manipulating the timer to produce a misleading result. That was simply, plainly, demonstrably untrue. That's the issue here and that's what you refuse to address. If you'd timed it yourself you would've seen that the video posted by Thegreatwhiteshark was correct.

Now you say you didn't time it and rather than address that, you post another video that proves you were wrong. Yet, somehow, you still cling to the idea that the original video was 'BS'?

You've got to be kidding. BTW, this new video says the sequence in question is nine seconds rather than six. 50% longer than GWS said. So, I guess you're spreading FUD now?

Look, let's try and salvage something from this shit-show.

The video you posted shows on-rail sequences that claim very short loading times, however the only gameplay to gameplay section shows the loading to be something like six to nine seconds.

Now take a breath before you react. Is six to nine seconds disappointing to you? Is it not good enough? When you get your PS5 on launch day, plug it in and fire up the first game, are you going to take it back if it takes six seconds to load?

Just relax.

Six to nine seconds to load an entire next-gen level is fantastic.

If someone says that it might be more realistic to expect six seconds rather than .08 seconds, they're not saying that the PS5 is junk. They're just suggesting that maybe you should temper your expectations.

Look at the evidence given to you by Sony themselves. Forget what other people say, forget what the PR is, look at the official video.

For what it's worth, the Series X will likely be slower, OK? You'll always have that.
 
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Well_Of_Souls

Well_Of_Souls

Member
Maaaan the wait is excruciating! Roughly this time (give or take a couple of weeks) in 2013, I played both the Xbox One and PS4 at the EuroGamer show in London. How spoiled we were, we could touch real-live consoles and even play games on them! This time around, we've seen some gameplay from Sony, but a PS5 hasn't been seen in the wild, and barely anything has been shown on the Series X.
 
R

Redlight

Member
sircaw said:
The fact that you guys have spent an entire week talking about the most pointless thing in the universe makes me wonder what the hell is going on.

Of all the things to bloody nitpick about, people found a couple of seconds in an amazing Ratchet and clank demo to have a god damn moan about.

I see perfection when i watch the R+c demo, i just do not understand at all what people are moaning about.

The truth is, i have stopped reading half the posts in regards to it, as soon as i saw time this, time that i was like wtf and stopped paying attention.

all of it seems like a waste of time, i am not interested in it and i very much doubt the fast majority of readers are interested in it either.
Click to expand...
Facts are difficult and a lot of people can't deal with them. Right, got it.
 
sircaw

sircaw

Banned
TheGreatWhiteShark said:
(y)



damn, little fishy!
I like you much, but boy-oh-boy, aren't you the worst kind of sony footsoldier
Click to expand...


Its remarks like this that warrants you getting a big fat slap, and with a trout, i might add.

Fish, your a trouble maker, its very simple,

Even today you made a post about
NVIDIA boss says GTX 3080 series is using xbox methodology for Ray Tracing

mod edit: see post #25 for clarification. Topic is not reflective of the point being made.

The post got shut down by the mods, why, you know why, your being very disingenuous in your posting.

This is not an honest mistake by you, your not an idiot, you are purposely doing these types of things.

How do i know this, cos i am also i sly Bastard that can see what your doing.

It's getting tiresome now, you are actively trolling away on a daily basis.

I know it and you know it.

Stop it.
 
yewles1

yewles1

Member
sircaw said:
I think somewhere it's about loses. I really don't know how profitable Microsoft is with there gaming division. Is game pass making a loss, is it making them money? Is it making as much as they want it to make.

They have had some big loses of late, mixer comes to mind. How much did they have to pay those streamers of etc.

Microsoft might have billions but shareholders hate to see losses. Their console might cost a lot more to make than sony's i don't know. If they are already losing the console war, that they are not apparently in, it's not a good look bleeding out money too, in a war you can not win.



Been watching Kobra Kai on netflix it's awesome.
Click to expand...
www.gamespot.com

Xbox Game Pass Is Not A Big Money-Maker Right Now, But Microsoft Is Thinking Long Term

"[Xbox Game Pass] is not a big profit play," Aaron Greenberg says of the subscription service.
www.gamespot.com www.gamespot.com
 
TheGreatWhiteShark

TheGreatWhiteShark

Member
Redlight said:
You accused people of manipulating the timer to produce a misleading result. That was simply, plainly, demonstrably untrue. That's the issue here and that's what you refuse to address. If you'd timed it yourself you would've seen that the video posted by Thegreatwhiteshark was correct.

Now you say you didn't time it and rather than address that, you post another video that proves you were wrong. Yet, somehow, you still cling to the idea that the original video was 'BS'?

You've got to be kidding. BTW, this new video says the sequence in question is nine seconds rather than six. 50% longer than GWS said. So, I guess you're spreading FUD now?

Look, let's try and salvage something from this shit-show.

The video you posted shows on-rail sequences that claim very short loading times, however the only gameplay to gameplay section shows the loading to be something like six to nine seconds.

Now take a breath before you react. Is six to nine seconds disappointing to you? Is it not good enough? When you get your PS5 on launch day, plug it in and fire up the first game, are you going to take it back if it takes six seconds to load?

Just relax.

Six to nine seconds to load an entire next-gen level is fantastic.

If someone says that it might be more realistic to expect six seconds rather than .08 seconds, they're not saying that the PS5 is junk. They're just suggesting that maybe you should temper your expectations.

Look at the evidence given to you by Sony themselves. Forget what other people say, forget what the PR is, look at the official video.

For what it's worth, the Series X will likely be slower, OK? You'll always have that.
Click to expand...
I laughed so much when I saw that the video he brought up counts the same sequence as 9 seconds instead of the 6 seconds that made him attack me, but I didnt comment on it since I didn't really feel like getting attacked again :]
Well, as I say many-many times, many people really dont understand what their eyes see.
 
R

Redlight

Member
LucidFlux said:
I find these types of studies fascinating, but this is why reading beyond the headline is important.

Right from the article:

"Now, we'll level with you here.
We performed LG's accuracy test on a laptop (we're not sure if you can even do the test on an Xbox or PlayStation) and it simply asks what your preferred console is, which isn't entirely accurate for collating data.
While the jury might be out on who is the better gamer, it's clear which console is the most popular."

I'm curious of the method of input players used. Did PS players use a dual shock, Xbox an Xbox controller and PC players on M+KB?
Click to expand...
These kinds of surveys are dubious, the original article didn't even link to the source, they could've made the whole thing up for all we know.

I'm doing my bit to level things up, I've been exclusively One X since it was released and I'm shit at competitive games. :)
 
SaucyJack

SaucyJack

Member
Redlight said:
You accused people of manipulating the timer to produce a misleading result. That was simply, plainly, demonstrably untrue. That's the issue here and that's what you refuse to address. If you'd timed it yourself you would've seen that the video posted by Thegreatwhiteshark was correct.

Now you say you didn't time it and rather than address that, you post another video that proves you were wrong. Yet, somehow, you still cling to the idea that the original video was 'BS'?

You've got to be kidding. BTW, this new video says the sequence in question is nine seconds rather than six. 50% longer than GWS said. So, I guess you're spreading FUD now?

Look, let's try and salvage something from this shit-show.

The video you posted shows on-rail sequences that claim very short loading times, however the only gameplay to gameplay section shows the loading to be something like six to nine seconds.

Now take a breath before you react. Is six to nine seconds disappointing to you? Is it not good enough? When you get your PS5 on launch day, plug it in and fire up the first game, are you going to take it back if it takes six seconds to load?

Just relax.

Six to nine seconds to load an entire next-gen level is fantastic.

If someone says that it might be more realistic to expect six seconds rather than .08 seconds, they're not saying that the PS5 is junk. They're just suggesting that maybe you should temper your expectations.

Look at the evidence given to you by Sony themselves. Forget what other people say, forget what the PR is, look at the official video.

For what it's worth, the Series X will likely be slower, OK? You'll always have that.
Click to expand...

Jeez, the 6/9 second thing is abject nonsense. Probably the stupidest Thing I’ve seen in the last few pages.
 
TheGreatWhiteShark

TheGreatWhiteShark

Member
sircaw said:
Its remarks like this that warrants you getting a big fat slap, and with a trout, i might add.

Fish, your a trouble maker, its very simple,

Even today you made a post about
NVIDIA boss says GTX 3080 series is using xbox methodology for Ray Tracing

mod edit: see post #25 for clarification. Topic is not reflective of the point being made.

The post got shut down by the mods, why, you know why, your being very disingenuous in your posting.

This is not an honest mistake by you, your not an idiot, you are purposely doing these types of things.

How do i know this, cos i am also i sly Bastard that can see what your doing.

It's getting tiresome now, you are actively trolling away on a daily basis.

I know it and you know it.

Stop it.
Click to expand...
You say you are a "sly bastard", but you ain't, because you both a) did not understand, aaand b) you probably missed my post above.
Go on, read it now and look at the video too! :messenger_heart:
www.neogaf.com

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

I want to be part in the ignored list too please :lollipop_raising_hand: Wait.. we could have an "ignore list" hype thingy, like that fabled train? How about that!
www.neogaf.com www.neogaf.com
 
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IntentionalPun

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Bo_Hazem said:
WTF is my credibility :lollipop_tears_of_joy: I'm no insider, didn't even bother to time that. Here is a near-good timer, natural one without that BS:




But the guy lags as it should stop when the new world has loaded. Also this is a next gen game, not a legacy game that's lagging 11sec on XSX. So it's at least 10GB offloaded and 10GB loaded in 1-2sec.
Click to expand...


Bo-bro.. that timer was fine.. it was measuring FRAMES that's why it was going to 30 and back to 0.

There was nothing wrong with the timer in the other video, all you had to do was look at it vs. the video time and see that lol

Now this "where does the loading start/stop" concept is debatable of course.. but that timer worked fine.
 
sircaw

sircaw

Banned
TheGreatWhiteShark said:
You say you are a "sly bastard", but you ain't, because you both a) did not understand, aaand b) you probably missed my post above.
Go on, read it now and look at the video too! :messenger_heart:
www.neogaf.com

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

I want to be part in the ignored list too please :lollipop_raising_hand: Wait.. we could have an "ignore list" hype thingy, like that fabled train? How about that!
www.neogaf.com www.neogaf.com
Click to expand...

Your a very naughty boy shark, no amount of spinning is going to change that.
 
DrDamn

DrDamn

Member
TheGreatWhiteShark said:
interesting.
first of all lets clear one more time that either 2 or 6 seconds are both very-very good and magnitudes improvement of where we at right now.
now, to your point I'd say that the game has to load much more data when preparing its full gameplay loop, than when its preparing just a 5 second ride on the back of a dragon
edit: to elaborate more, you get a 2 second load for a 4 second dragon ride, you get another 2 second load for a 5 sec skyscraper glide etc
Click to expand...

Agreed on the underlined part.

First off in the rail ride section - there is interaction (you have to jump and there are instructions on the screen), so it's not just a fixed course through - it's admittedly limited, but it's there and it must also have a fail response (crash and burn/fall).

What other data are you talking about it needing for it's gameplay loop? It's loaded in everything it needs for what you can see - animations, models, textures etc. Everything else it needs which is sizeable, like high detail models or other linked areas, can be streamed in as you approach them.
 
IntentionalPun

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
SaucyJack said:
Jeez, the 6/9 second thing is abject nonsense. Probably the stupidest Thing I’ve seen in the last few pages.
Click to expand...
Nobody really has any clue here what "time" is being used to load.

Once ratchet grabs the portal, theoretically they COULD:

- Unload any data not currently visible to the user (the current data cache)
- Start loading the data for the next world, but can't fully load it as there's still visible current level data needed
- Once they hit the portal itself, they can completely dump any non-shared assets for the previous world
- Inside the portal they can continue fully loading the next "level", prioritizing what is visible to the user
- During the "other side" of the portal jump, where the player can't really control anything, they could use that time to fetch the cache they need for what data isn't currently visible to the user, but needs to be loaded (the asset streaming cache)
- There are also calculations that need to be made, enemy placements for the next level, any other "randomness" for the next level, etc.

But are they using all of that time for loading? Nobody knows..I would guess not... my guess is:

- Portal itself is used to load what is required to render what is directly visible on the other side of the portal
- Canned animation on the other end is used to pre-fetch other data needing to be cached
- I feel like that time is also plenty for any calculations that need to be done to generate the random things on the next level, but some of the animation before entering the portal could also be being used for that

Nobody but the devs really know.
 
FranXico

FranXico

Member
kyliethicc said:
Even faster than that, 9 GB/s or even higher sometimes. So it can fill the 13-14 GB of RAM in less than 2 seconds. PS5 IO is incredible.
Click to expand...
Didn't you see the problem? It doesn't matter that all the different scene assets were loaded that fast, because the player wasn't given control, or was playing through an on-rails section.

That means Halo Infinite is, in fact, the fastest and only true next-gen game coming. Who cares if the textures are still popping into the scene, you're already driving your Warthog past them!

:pie_roffles:
 
FranXico

FranXico

Member
IntentionalPun said:
Nobody really has any clue here what "time" is being used to load.

Once ratchet grabs the portal, theoretically they COULD:

- Unload any data not currently visible to the user (the current data cache)
- Start loading the data for the next world, but can't fully load it as there's still visible current level data needed
- Once they hit the portal itself, they can completely dump any non-shared assets for the previous world
- Inside the portal they can continue fully loading the next "level", prioritizing what is visible to the user
- During the "other side" of the portal jump, where the player can't really control anything, they could use that time to fetch the cache they need for what data isn't currently visible to the user, but needs to be loaded (the asset streaming cache)
- There are also calculations that need to be made, enemy placements for the next level, any other "randomness" for the next level, etc.

But are they using all of that time for loading? Nobody knows..I would guess not... my guess is:

- Portal itself is used to load what is required to render what is directly visible on the other side of the portal
- Canned animation on the other end is used to pre-fetch other data needing to be cached
- I feel like that time is also plenty for any calculations that need to be done to generate the random things on the next level, but some of the animation before entering the portal could also be being used for that

Nobody but the devs really know.
Click to expand...
Oh, my friend, don't even bring up that most modern game engines stream the assets anyway.

Now they're going to say that even gameplay is sneakly hiding the load times.
 
TheGreatWhiteShark

TheGreatWhiteShark

Member
sircaw said:
Your a very naughty boy shark, no amount of spinning is going to change that.
Click to expand...
Facts are naughty sometimes, but what can you do...

So, in order to provide a meaningful piece of info out of your rant, what my thread comes down to is that xbox has around 40% the RT capacity that the -up until yesterday undisputed RT KING- the 2080ti has.
Talking about NVIDIA, given that for performant RT, DLSS comes to play and of course some high compute calculations that take place OUT of the GPU, I also said that microsoft (having the entire cloud system) might just be in a better place to provide some RT than I previously thought.

Because -if you remember- I had told you right here on GAF in the past, that I will have ready a crate full of tomatoes next time microsoft spews that "13TF RT POWA", to throw them tomatoes at them.
Do you remember? You better do remember you silly little goldfish :messenger_heart:
 
R

Redlight

Member
ethomaz said:
Nah people that say I'm in the ignore list keep replied to me... so it is just another lie :D
Click to expand...
I used to put a lot of people on the ignore list but in the end you just see a lot of replies that don't make sense and have to press the 'show ignored content' button all the time.

I still keep a few special flowers on there though. The fact that you're not one of them shows how selective I am these days. :)
 
ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
Redlight said:
I used to put a lot of people on the ignore list but in the end you just see a lot of replies that don't make sense and have to press the 'show ignored content' button all the time.

I still keep a few special flowers on there though. The fact that you're not one of them shows how selective I am these days. :)
Click to expand...
I never used the feature even in Twitter, Facebook or Whatsapp... seems pointless... I just ignore the content posted.
 
sircaw

sircaw

Banned
TheGreatWhiteShark said:
Facts are naughty sometimes, but what can you do...

So, in order to provide a meaningful piece of info out of your rant, what my thread comes down to is that xbox has around 40% the RT capacity that the -up until yesterday undisputed RT KING- the 2080ti has.
Talking about NVIDIA, given that for performant RT, DLSS comes to play and of course some high compute calculations that take place OUT of the GPU, I also said that microsoft (having the entire cloud system) might just be in a better place to provide some RT than I previously thought.

Because -if you remember- I had told you right here on GAF in the past, that I will have ready a crate full of tomatoes next time microsoft spews that "13TF RT POWA", to throw them tomatoes at them.
Do you remember? You better do remember you silly little goldfish :messenger_heart:
Click to expand...

Bla bla bla, more noise not worth my time,

you were caught out, stop trying to justify your bullshit.

Just stop. you're constantly at it.
 
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R

Redlight

Member
Can I just make an unrelated-to-anything announcement? Kind of a PSA?

If you mean to insult me by posting a 'lol' reaction it doesn't work.

I operate on the general principle that every reaction is a vote of approval. ''lol' just means you think I'm witty.

So, thanks everyone!
 
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IntentionalPun

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
FranXico said:
Oh, my friend, don't even bring up that most modern game engines stream the assets anyway.

Now they're going to say that even gameplay is sneakly hiding the load times.
Click to expand...
lol

Well it's an important point.. Between:

- There will be plenty of shared assets between the 2 levels that never need to be loaded/unloaded
- The fact that you don't actually need to load the entire level
- Texture compression
- We are talking max 14GB of RAM for games

Makes it incredibly illogical to assume anything more than a single second is needed on PS5 to switch worlds, at least asset loading wise. There's only ~14GB of total RAM available. Only part of that is used to render the "current view", and some of that is shared assets that don't need re-loaded. The rest is for caching the streaming of the "nearby" assets.

Even if you get super crazy assuming 10GB is needed for the current view (probably isn't).. and even if you get super crazy and assume only 2GB is shared... and let's say only 50% of the data is actually textures, so can be compressed.

That's 8GB of total data needing to be loaded, and 4GB of textures that can be compressed down to 2GB. So 6GB total data... roughly 1 second for the PS5's I/O.

There are very few scenarios outside of having to do intense calculations (procedural generation, simulations that have to be run, etc.) that would ever take a PS5 more than 1 second realistically to load the data needed.
 
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Fordino

Fordino

Member
kyliethicc said:
But the C9 can only do VRR at 4k from 40 to 60 Hz. The CX can do VRR from 40 to 120 Hz at all resolutions.
Click to expand...

I thought the same a while back, but it looks like the C9 does support 40 to 120Hz.

Using an EDID reader, we confirmed the C9's VRR range to be between 40Hz and 120Hz
Click to expand...
www.expertreviews.co.uk

LG C9 OLED (OLED55C9 OLED65C9 OLED77C9) review: An OLED triumph from LG | Expert Reviews

Devastatingly accurate image quality goes hand-in-hand with cutting-edge features and a premium design
www.expertreviews.co.uk www.expertreviews.co.uk

LG says that its 2019 OLED TVs has a VRR range of 40-120Hz at 4K resolution
Click to expand...
https://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1559035462
 
Eternal21

Eternal21

Member
I don't have time to go through the last 1000 pages. Can someone tell me what's the next rumored date for any type of Sony presentation/reveal, so I have something to look forward to. Thanks!
 
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