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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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azertydu91

Hard to Kill
Ray traced Gi & shadows? Sing me up
Alright I'll try...

♪ ♪ Oh Shmunter Shmunter for Splinter Cell ♪ ♪
♪ ♪ If that name rings a bell ♪ ♪
♪ ♪ With global illumination ♪ ♪
♪ ♪ getting ready for elimination♪ ♪
♪ ♪ to take out a terrorsit Nation ♪ ♪
♪ ♪ to kill in good old fashion ♪ ♪
♪ ♪ lurk in the shadow♪ ♪
♪ ♪ My rounds are hollow♪ ♪
♪ ♪ With ray tracing for Shmunter Shmunter ♪ ♪
♪ ♪ Become the hunter♪ ♪
 

kensama

Member
VRS tiers is due old hardware limitation.

Tier 0: No support.
Tier 1: Hardware support with limitations (eg. RDNA)
Tier 2: Full hardware support (eg. RDNA 2).
Tier 3? Future GPUs hardware (look at the table below there is feature with N in Tier 2).

That is how Direct X works.

tiers.png




This blog/site is hold by MS fanboy who doesn't know what about they talk.
Their sources are MisterXmedia and Bluenegroho.
Can be verified here: https://microsoftwaypoint.com/2020/...de-la-ram-a-double-debit-decouvert/#more-7705

Blue nugroho, enquêteur aguerri sur Twitter, appuie cette théorie.

Translation: Blue Negroho seasoned investigator support this theory. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
You’re reaching for the stars when the most simple answer and even stated info is in front of you. You’ll just need to wait for a tear down to convince yourself.

The patent is public and in front of you, too. I’m not sure what’s triggered all the hostility. This thread is strange place and egos seem to count for more than actually trying to learn about the hardware.

Are you expecting a tear down to detail the architecture and logic to that extent? I’m just expecting a surface look inside the thing.
 
The source is the schematic of Cernys presentation, which shows local SRAM on the IO and the flow of data is clear.

You have seen it posted on GAF allot.

That isn’t a technical document. It’s a summary for a slideshow.
The patent has that same schematic in far more detail while also explaining how the elements interact with each other.

Again, according to Sony’s patent: A pool of SRAM in the IO Complex is used as a working area for several parts of the check-in process and is fed from system RAM, not directly from data streaming off the SSD.

If the patent is wrong or has been superseded then that’s fine, but it really doesn’t make any difference anyway.

It Cerny’s powerpoint slide is meant to be more detailed that their patent then it actually groups the SRAM with a couple or co-processors, and not with the decompressor, too.
 

3liteDragon

Member
Also dealergaming kinda got called out today by Nxgamer about spreading misinformation about PS5 smart-shift.

Lol dealer, this fool doesn’t even know what he’s talking about half the time just like the entire RDX crew, better to just ignore this crap. Reality’s gonna hit hard for these fanboys soon, specs are the be-all and end-all for these guys and that’s pretty much it. Wouldn’t really expect anyone from the RDX crew to have any clue about the overall architecture of both consoles.
 
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Shmunter

Member
He doesn’t contradict anything mentioned in the patent. CPU overhead is eliminated whether the SSD streams data to RAM before check-in or not, so I’m not sure what your point is?
Cerney goes out of his way to eliminate bottlenecks, but then decides to double up the whole thing by reading and writing from ram twice. Too hell with latency, to hell with bandwidth. Because he took the current deficiencies on pc and improved nothing. Even though he had total freedom of design without legacy considerations. Beginning to smell a bad faith argument, sorry.
 
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Kerlurk

Banned
PS5 streams compressed data from the SSD to its RAM, and then decompresses it back into RAM. At least that’s what the Sony storage patent says, anyway.

It has SRAM in the decompression block for that, so no RAM is used.

From what I posted before:
5mbqO6a.png


Kraken also makes full use of those dual decompression engines, and that's why they are there, as it was part of that algorithm.
 
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Mahavastu

Member
He doesn’t contradict anything mentioned in the patent. CPU overhead is eliminated whether the SSD streams data to RAM before check-in or not, so I’m not sure what your point is?
It is simply the Cerny talk.
He shows that there is a small RAM buffer as part of the IO block. The SSD loads compressed stuff into this buffer, it gets decompressed and then via DMAC written into RAM.

Your way (using system RAM) would work, but it would be way slower and would require much more RAM bandwith. Think about, what you are saying is that the compressed data is going from the SSD to the IO block (who else has access to the SSD?), from here stored into the system ram, then loaded from system ram into the IO block again, decompressed and then stored into the final destination.
Yes, your suggested way would work, but you need about 3 times the memory bandwith (which could be better used for the CPU/GPU) and 3 times the amount of DMACs.

timestamped video, where you can see that the SSD data gets loaded into a small buffer in the IO block itself
 
It has SRAM in the decompression block for that, so no RAM is used.

From what I posted before:
5mbqO6a.png


Kraken also makes full use of those dual decompression engines, and that's why they are there, as it was part of that algorithm.

PS4 and PS4 Pro have a dedicated decompression chip I believe. It's not a block of entire complex of chips that addresses all the bottlenecks like the one in the PS5, but I believe there is a decompression chip there.
 
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Mahavastu

Member
That isn’t a technical document. It’s a summary for a slideshow.
The patent has that same schematic in far more detail while also explaining how the elements interact with each other.

Again, according to Sony’s patent: A pool of SRAM in the IO Complex is used as a working area for several parts of the check-in process and is fed from system RAM, not directly from data streaming off the SSD.
Yes, thats the way it is done... why did you just wrote a while ago that the data are stored in system RAM before it is decompressed?
 
So it’s just an obnoxious shouting match that is bizarrely taken far too personally, with little interest in analysing or speculating on details, with more of a focus on who says what and how that reflects on various cliques, tribes and fragile egos.
Dude, you just don't want to realize that your described method, which you got hooked on from the patent, is extremely inefficient, although in relation to the same occupied memory. You insist that it works the way you wrote it. But this is nonsense. Just think about it. Why then did all this need to be done with these units and accelerators? All manipulations with the unpacking of the data must occur before reaching the memory. This is the whole point, so there is an i/o unit. Why do you immediately pretend to be offended? Do you have something else besides the patent, or is that all you can oppose? The patent doesn't have to describe the implementation exactly, and it is not.
 
VRS tiers is due old hardware limitation.

Tier 0: No support.
Tier 1: Hardware support with limitations (eg. RDNA)
Tier 2: Actual hardware support (eg. RDNA 2).
Tier 3? Future GPUs hardware (look at the table below there is feature with N in Tier 2).

That is how Direct X works... they add new Tier with new hardware so you have a abstraction layer for old and new hardware each one supporting a set of features (Tiers)

tiers.png



 

sircaw

Banned
.
@Bo_Hazem sircaw sircaw Bryank75 Bryank75 do you think Sony might wait until October to start talking PS5 again, by talking I am referring to another event where you see in depth gameplay demos, UI reveal, price and pre order info and probably a couple of unannounced titles gets revealed and then November the console launches. Or do you think Sony already has an event edited out and ready to be aired the moment Microsoft reveals Series S and pricing for Series S and X?

I think there has been a lot of variables for Sony not showing their hand atm.
From that shitty virus to the BLM/riots stuff going on around the world, it's all about timing i would suspect.

the good news it has to happen soon, we are for all purposes running out of time, this can't go on for much longer, that's the good news.

The other thing to consider is Microsoft, they don't have a lot to offer in this war, they have basically fucked themselves completely with their shitty leadership and planning, saying that the last bastion they have is their price.

Just like the 12 tflp number being their huge Play, the price might surely be their last Bastion. Sony knows this, that why they are waiting. Remember Microsoft might not have the games or exclusives like sony but their Hardware is very solid.

I do expect something to start budging very soon, the closer we get to launch the more people, the more companies the more chains of people start to get involved. It will start to get harder and harder to keep a lid on things.

I myself am completely burnt out with this saga atm, been taking a few days away from the forum as there is so much of the same thing i can keep reading.

I hope for you, me, all of us as a community we get something soon.

xxxxx
Fish Rule.
 

I don't like those graphics of Halo but man in that tweet exists so many wrong things:

1-You cannot compare a demo of game vs a tech demo in so straight way
2.-The saddest part of the Halo was running in a similar PC, this sounds more like a little better than XSX
3.- The cost which they compare to Fortnite is not the total cost is only the Nanite part
4.-The demo was to show the Geometry streaming not the texture, remember the phrases like "billions of polygons"
5.-The 768 mb is for the streaming pool not the total

giphy.gif
 
US and UK prices are not the same though, usually right? Aren't the consoles less in pounds than dollars? Didn't the PS4 launch at £349?

That's right. There tends to be a little joke here in the UK when the dollar price of something is announced that they'll simply replace the $ with a £ when it launches over here.

In truth, it's because GBP prices include all the relevant taxes, whereas I don't believe US prices do?
 

Vae_Victis

Banned
Looks like it'll be US only launch in November, December and onwards for rest
They might want to launch in time for Black Friday (27 November) in the US, while in Europe they could be fine simply launching before Christmas (25 December).

I guess there could be 2-3 weeks between launches in the two regions, even though for such a short time difference I don't know what that would really accomplish on a logistical level.
 
T

Three Jackdaws

Unconfirmed Member

Yeah I think the "secret sauce" was in reference to the PS5 SSD architecture and it's systems. I agree that there are other unknown features which have yet to be revealed but as for what Lisa Su was referring to was the SSD.
I don't like those graphics of Halo but man in that tweet exists so many wrong things:

1-You cannot compare a demo of game vs a tech demo in so straight way
2.-The saddest part of the Halo was running in a similar PC, this sounds more like a little better than XSX
3.- The cost which they compare to Fortnite is not the total cost is only the Nanite part
4.-The demo was to show the Geometry streaming not the texture, remember the phrases like "billions of polygons"
5.-The 768 mb is for the streaming pool not the total

giphy.gif
console fanboy twitter is embarrassing at times and that goes for both sides, constantly parroting quotes and information which they have no understanding of.
 
Sounds like it's going to be a staggered launch, rather than global. Makes sense in this Covid world and probably accounts(partially) why they are holding off a bit longer.

What might be 2 months of waiting for us may be 3 or 4 months for other countries to have the console release there.
 
Yeah I think the "secret sauce" was in reference to the PS5 SSD architecture and it's systems. I agree that there are other unknown features which have yet to be revealed but as for what Lisa Su was referring to was the SSD.

console fanboy twitter is embarrassing at times and that goes for both sides, constantly parroting quotes and information which they have no understanding of.
When I saw people in this thread quoting on that kind of tweets, I am not sure if they are doing it in order
to make fun of it or if they are really believe it and yes as you say is for both sides.

If someone is agree with tweet of UE5 vs Halo Infinite or the XSX==3080 then in that moment they are
stupid.
 
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