Walter Matthau
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So next gen 3rd party games are gonna target a 4TF 1440p baseline and we're ok with this because $299?
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Melfice7
Member
No it's not, no one made games for the pro then downscaled to base ps4, its always the other way around, you make it for the lowest common denominator and scale it up as it can go on better hardware
The only way for this not fuck up how consoles always worked is to make 2 entirely different games for each version , and thats not gonna happen
Journey
Banned
That's only the case if the CPU is lacking, you can't design a game with crazy AI and physics and scale it across a weaker CPU, you will need two engines, but fortunately the CPU in Series S is in every way just as powerful as Series X and even more powerful than PS5's. Developers have been scaling their engines for GPU's for years now, just dialing back a few textures and resolution will do the trick without changing anything.
Heavy geometry (Triangle/vertices drawing) AI and Physics are extremely hard to scale, some things cannot be done on weaker hardware, but GPUs are in charge of the detail of the textures and resolution which scales extremely well across hardware.
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tryDEATH
Member
The TF to TF performance is actually around 5x to 6x, which is similar to the price point difference. The 3090 TF arent the same as the ones that PS5 and Series X use they are inflated to 30TF due to a different calculation.
Schmick
Member
Amongst all the FUD i read this and i think what is all the fuss about.
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Jon Neu
Banned
It's actually more powerful.
The Series X is 3 times more powerful than the Series S.
But 4K is 4 times more demanding than 1080p, so the Series S it's going to have a lot of power underutilized because the bigger consoles aren't powerful enough to match the same perfomance of the Series S with 4 times more resolution.
Schmick
Member
Why cant people understand this!
kingwingin
Member
Uh no?
You can build a game on series x. Push it to its limit then have that exact same game on series s with 1/3 the resolution. Nothing is being held back
The Hamburglar
Banned
Phil and series s can suck my series xtra big dick for ruining this gen with their shitty baseline
FlyyGOD
Member
How can the resolution of series S gimp anything on Series X? I play Street fighter 5 on pc at 1440p and I'm sure I'm not gimping anyone's else who is playing on a more powerful pc than mine.
RaySoft
Member
I can garantee you that they won't "push it to it's limits", simply because it will be easier to port if they don't.
Devs will now start designing the games for best porting efficiency instead off pushing anything to it's limits.
mcjmetroid
Member
Console exclusive gamers again not understating how tech works .
What's the problem? Gotta love the concern trolling threads from SonyGaf. First Ampere, now this.
The Series S will target 1440p/120 FPS but I am sure that will be in 2D games like Cuphead. At the end of the day, the Series S will be a good 1080p 30 FPS machine for AAA next gen graphics heavy games. And a LOT of people will be good with that, specially for 300 USD.
Which PS5 games will be targeting 1080p 30 for example to make an apples to apples comparison? Fanboys always ignore that the PS5 is supposed to run games between 1440p and 4k and a lot of GPU power is "wasted" in displaying those high resolutions. But the games will be the same since CPU and storage are the same as on the Series X model.
The Series S will target 1440p/120 FPS but I am sure that will be in 2D games like Cuphead. At the end of the day, the Series S will be a good 1080p 30 FPS machine for AAA next gen graphics heavy games. And a LOT of people will be good with that, specially for 300 USD.
Which PS5 games will be targeting 1080p 30 for example to make an apples to apples comparison? Fanboys always ignore that the PS5 is supposed to run games between 1440p and 4k and a lot of GPU power is "wasted" in displaying those high resolutions. But the games will be the same since CPU and storage are the same as on the Series X model.
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VisualFidelity
Member
LMAO, because devs dont care about PS5?? PS5 will be baseline imo, xbox games will be scaled accordingly.
Zok310
Banned
As the gen progress MS is gonna have to drop the S or yeah, later gen games are gonna target 4TF at 1440p.
I fear People are gonna end up buying the S at launch then 3 years later upgrade to the X like we did with PS4 to Pro. Cheap in the short run, long term waaay more expensive because you may end up buying 2 consoles in 3 years.
I fear People are gonna end up buying the S at launch then 3 years later upgrade to the X like we did with PS4 to Pro. Cheap in the short run, long term waaay more expensive because you may end up buying 2 consoles in 3 years.
VisualFidelity
Member
It has the same CPU and SSD as series X, more like 1080p-1440p/60fps should be norm.
Walter Matthau
Member
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SirTerry-T
Member
Stop crying over videogames, you big bloody baby.
There's no way a series S hits 1440p 60 FPS on demanding AAA next gen games It's GPU bound to do that. I'd even say that barely a Series X will be able to hit those targets. The way I see it, the ideal use case would be to offer high framerates in 2D or E Sports games. And 1080p 30/60 on single player AAA games.
No, I have 150+ physical disc of PS4 games and chances are so do countless others. ..
RaySoft
Member
It's the people playing the same game on the more powerful hardware that's being gimped. They could have put the extra power to better use than higher res and +100 fps more.
MrFunSocks
Banned
This OP is legit embarrassing lol.
Been great for adding more salty fanboys that are having meltdowns to the Ignore list though so that’s a plus.
Been great for adding more salty fanboys that are having meltdowns to the Ignore list though so that’s a plus.
Great Hair
Banned
Really. Will this ever end?
XSX Forza 8 (lead platform)
Budget 16ms, 4K60, assets like cars having 1mill. polys, 4K textures, every race with 30x cars fits within the 10GB vram + menu, sounds etc. making good use of 2.4GB/s (SSD), barely any loading times.
XSS Forza 8 (port)
same Budget but at 2K60, but every assets like cars need to be downgraded, only 2K textures, else only 15 cars can be rendered (due less vram). If they went the other path.
Porting over the XSS (lead platform) code, build over to the XSX and call it a day? Same quality-level as on XSS but at 4K60 ... maybe with better textures but every other assets like the cars remain the same as on XSS.
Will any developer make the extra effort, time and spent money on remodelling, replacing "lower grade" assets with HQ ones?
In other words: Craig.gif
Halo 6 would have looked much better, if the lead platform was the XSX and not the Xbone (even though MS states otherwise). If you have more vram, more stuff can fit, or better looking shit can fit.
The lowest common denominator always has, always will hold back the strongest one (see PC discrepancy among the gpus in use, barely anyone buys a 2080ti (they apparently sold poorly compared to the 1000 series, barely anyone plays at 4K on the PC, majority still plays at 2K).
If im wrong, feel free to correct me.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
I am pretty sure MS would force any 3rd party developer to run their game on both S and X. Games that run on Series X and not on Series S is not on the table.
It is the only way it could work.
Now then, we would not see any immediate fallout just yet, as most third parties would still be making cross gen games. But this does confirm MS basically wasted the last few months marketing power that would never be fully utilized.
it also explains why they never showed games run on Series X; they would all run on Series S as well and thus was always less visually impressive than they should be. At least there is one mystery solved.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
I was considering upgrading my ancient laptop. But it looks like next gen games would still run fine on it for the next 7 years at this rate.
Physiognomonics
Member
The real problem is not even the 4TF GPU. The real problem is the new baseline of ram size for games. 7.5GB instead of 5GB currently.
Even the XBX has more (9GB).
Even the XBX has more (9GB).
McCheese
Member
To be fair the OS footprint is smaller now they removed all the mixer integration. But yes, less ram than my 8 year old desktop PC. Zero hype for this thing.
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Yes, I am afraid you are wrong here. The Series S is not a Super Nintendo. The core of the console it's the same as a Series X, with just a less capable GPU. I'd be worried for the Series S if next gen PS5 and Series X targeted 1080p 30 FPS. But this is not the case. The Series S will be a great console for a 1080p gamer. I have been playing games at 1440p - 1800p - 4k and while it's nice it's not a deal breaker going back to 1080P. 1080p with good AA goes a long way.
If MS for some reason sets a standard that all games on the Series S must run at 1440p then it would hamper games development but I don't think that is going to happen. My guess:
4k: 2D games - BC games
1440p: BC high end games - E Sports games - 2D games
1080p: Demanding next gen games (30 FPS) high framerate E Sports games (120)
Physiognomonics
Member
I am talking about the ram size dedicated to the games.
jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Speaking of Super Nintendo - the Series S and Series X are more like the Nintendo 64. You can still play Perfect Dark without the memory expansion pack, but you get a better experience if you have it.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
You're wrong. There's no need to downgrade anything but texture resolution and maybe some raytracing on the XSS. And texture resolution is an invisible downgrade since 4K textures in a 2K game are a waste.
The Halo comparison makes no sense, since that game was literally made to run on a last-gen console.
xPikYx
Member
I agree, it's trash, absolutely trash. Worst gen ever, now for the next 7 years I have to play 2013 games on super powerful GPUs
The espansion pack was just an extra RAM memory attached for higher resolution
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Lone Wolf
Member
Does it need a lot of RAM if it puts out 1080p-1440p.? How much RAM does it have? 10GB? PS4 Pro has 8 and it does 4K sometimes.
MrFunSocks
Banned
Have you seen the thread that you're in? Threads like this are the reason why this place has been known as SonyGAF, and looks like it'll be known as that for at least another generation.
No worries.
The SS and SX have the same CPU. The CPU is what's running the show. The GPU just renders what it tells it to. The SSD gets the stuff to the RAM/GPU, and the SS and SX have the same SSD and setup for getting the stuff to the RAM/GPU. The SS has less RAM because it doesn't need to hold 4K textures.
So the SS can run the same game code at the exact same quality and speed as on the SX. Got that?
The SS can get the data to the RAM and GPU at the same speed as on the SX. Got that?
The SS will be rendering at likely 1/4 of the resolution of the SX, 1080p vs 4K. Got that?
4TF is 1/3 of 12TF, so the GPU will have more than enough headway to render the *exact* same game as the 12TF SX but at a lower resolution.
The Series S isn't the "baseline". The baseline is the CPU - which is the same on both, the SSD - which is the same on both, the GPU architecture and features - which is the same on both.
Understand?
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LittleBusters
Banned
Poor them.
00_Zer0
Member
If this is the reaction that MS gets for releasing their underpowered hardware that will supposedly hold back the entire generation, then I can't wait to see reactions on here when Switch 2 is revealed to offer 2-2.5 TF of performance with DLSS secret sauce so some of you guys can whine some more.
This makes one assumption and stifles any innovation. It basically assumes that all the GPU does or should do is push pixels. No, it doesn't just push pixels.
Fluid dynamics? GPGPU, Havok? A GPU can do much more than just push some extra pixels.
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The Pleasure
Member
Difference is wii and switch have games people want to play. I can't play zelda anywhere else. I can play killer Instinct on pc.Maybe this is why Sony bought up a lot of third-party exclusives, to ensure that 3rd parties would not in fact target 1080p.
I believe the "exclusive (marketing) partnership" deals from the past two gens are the same sort of idea.
In either case, it's a bait and switch designed for marketing slogans. "The power of next gen for $299" or something like that. After the first year we will see if Microsoft's gamble was correct and people will pay $50-100 less for a much weaker system. Worked for Wii and Switch
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
I'd suspect that at least initially most devs will target PS5 spec (current market leader always gets the nod) and then cross-port to X and finally S. I say this because there's absolutely no way that S builds will ever get used as part of marketing materials; once the One X came out the One S became basically invisible. Because of this there's little impetus to do more than the minimum for the S sku's, in fact anything that takes the shine off the flagship is likely to be undesirable for obvious reasons.
This begs the question of course as to if the S can do everything the X can, just at a lower resolution, how can than not hurt its value proposition? Especially when so much of its marketing from announcement has been stressing how powerful it is?
Being honest, if you believe you'll be able run that Senua trailer real-time on a 4TF device, doesn't that make the 12tf version kinda redundant?
This begs the question of course as to if the S can do everything the X can, just at a lower resolution, how can than not hurt its value proposition? Especially when so much of its marketing from announcement has been stressing how powerful it is?
Being honest, if you believe you'll be able run that Senua trailer real-time on a 4TF device, doesn't that make the 12tf version kinda redundant?
Craig of War
Banned
Did you not make a thread before about how you prefer 30fps too 60fps of all the people your the last person i expect to be worry about weaker console holding back gaming since your perfectly fine with 30fps as you said it.
Knitted Knight
Banned
They'll target the market leader. Specially the way this new gen is shaping up. If by some miracle the Xbox brand is resurgent in the NA market then you may have to worry.
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FlyyGOD
Member
Was the xbox one x the market leader when it had the best versions of multi-
platform games?
Journey
Banned
And you're making the assumption that the RDNA 2 GPU in Series S cannot handle general purpose processing. Everything else is highly scalable. The only concern with Series S was the CPU and SSD and it has both. It can do everything PS5 and Series X can do, but at a lower resolution and texture detail. For people who are still using a 1080p TV, this console is perfect and for them will have all the benefits, heck even 4K TV owners will benefit from the extra resolution which will be a native output of 1440p and Machine Learning DLSS type of upscale to 4K which will look glorious. We've seen DLSS native 1080p to 4K and it looks better than native in Control.
gamechanger87
Member
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{insert code here}
Member
Can't really take advantage of next-gen hardware when you're constrained by last-gen (equivalent) hardware.
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