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[Digital Foundry] This is how Xbox Series S backwards compatibility really works
- Thread starter 01011001
- Start date
I wish it was that simple, and that would work in general, but I dont think that would be up to standard for today.
Example: I have the old 60GB PS3 Phat backwards compatible version that has PS2 hardware inside.
Europe got the 80GB PS3 that did emulation, overall it was ok but some games wasnt too hot.
What I'm saying is Sony can do it, but they would have to test Every. Single. Game. In the process, that time and money is better spent on creating new games.
Your making the exact criticism towards (which is legitimate) Sony that folks made at the beginning of the PS4 gen. But we see how that turned out.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Thats not it, This happened at the beginning of Last gen with PS4 and Xbox One. Sony don't have infinite resources, they have to be strategic and purposeful where they spend there limited amount of money. They chose to spend there resources on creating new games/experiences, in the long run, its the better strategy.
M.S. spent alot of money and labor making each X360 title compatible for the Xone and its nice, but generally speaking you buy a Next Gen console to play Next gen Games that wasn't technically possible on the previous gen.
Since the PS5 is Backwards compatible with the PS4, all PS4 games will probably run in PS4 Pro mode with Stable Framerates.
Im betting Sony will think thats good enough and focus there limited resources (In comparison to M.S.) on creating New Games. We can see the results, Sony's Game lineup for 2021 is absolute.
So they don't have enough resources to do proper BC but bought an entire company and technology to stream their old games?
Got it.
ManaByte
Member
MS has a specific back compat team for testing and that doesn't take anything away from other developers making games.
Now this is A-Historical. Sony's financials were in the gutter when they bought Gaikai.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
That's a lot better than no enhancements. Still it's strange that MS would pair a pretty good CPU with such a weak GPU.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
But that is BILLIONS of dollars that could be put into 100 more AAA games. DO you know how many new games get cancelled due to all the $$$$$$$$$$ spent working on "older games" that nobody plays anymore.
Sarcasm. Yes, if its not obvious I fucking HATE the "taking away resources" argument when it comes to remastering/remaking/BC
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Sure, now that all the work that went to basically recoding selected 360 games to run on x86 jaguar cores Xone (each title if I remember correctly) is done, it should be pretty easy to run on XSX,XSS.
PS1,PS2 should be a easy, sony is just being stubborn. PS3 is a different animal.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
ManaByte
Member
They're going to need a good emulator soon if they want PS Now to keep running. That runs on Cell hardware, and IBM is no longer producing that. If they want to keep that going on they're going to have to emulate the PS3.
Elginer
Member
Same but I have over 30 X360 and OG Xbox games like Panzer that I’m not going to rebuy.
ManaByte
Member
They run in 4K on a 4K capable system and 1440p on a 1440p system.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
So now that they aren't they can't fund proper BC?
You can spin it however you want. Sony saw value is the BC catalog. Via streaming or native/emulation but they bet on streaming as a way to widen their outreach and the market didn't respond. Them misfiring does not equate to people not wanting it or there being no value. They simply approached it wrong.
JimboJones
Member
Games still have to work across Series S and X, scaling the GPU is much easier than scaling CPU dependent aspects.
Same reason why Switch only downclocks the GPU when in handheld mode the CPU is unaffected.
Nice.
Your move Sony....
..........
......
oh.
Sony will not move sadly, they are cashing on the notion that no matter what they do people will accept.
They literally lied on last presentation, gave shit for MS for supporting series S and will do the same, and more, I don’t care about console wars, but Sony really really has been a A-hole company
LarknThe4th
Member
Cool, so basically it's getting it's own separate profile for all back compatible titles
01011001
Banned
without additional patches the One X will run games at higher resolutions.
the Series S might get patches that remove the framerate cap in some games, so you would have a higher resolution on One X but a higher framerate on Series S in these titles.
also due to the vastly superior CPU games like KOTOR or GTA4 should run way smoother on Series S than on One X.
in general, games that have a hard time hitting their target/max framerate on One X will most likely hit it on Series S, games like Earth Defence Force 2025, GTA4, GRAW1+2, the 360 version of Bioshock Infinite, Bioshock 1+2 and many more games that have an unstable framerate even on One X will basically stay either at the max framerate or very close to it. (I wouldn't guarantee GTA4 to hit 60fps for example since that game is absolutely terribly optimised)
as you can see in this video, KOTOR runs WAAAAAAAAY better on One X than on og Xbox and even noticeably better than on One S.
on Series S this game should hit a full 60fps. the CPU is often the bottleneck in these instances since the CPUs inside current systems are dogshit (this comparison is almost an insult to dogshit tbh.) and emulation is always straining the CPU to begin with.
the performance difference you see in the video between One and One X aligns pretty well with the difference in their CPU performance
and where the games are GPU bound the Series S should also power through with no issue since it "only" renders at 1440p with a GPU that's very close in performance to the One X's GPU
but of course, on Series S this particular game will "only" run at 1440p, while the One X runs it at 1920p
so all in all, it basically comes down to this: One X = Higher Resolution in some 360 games and all og Xbox games,
Series S = Higher Framerate across the board with every game
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Night.Ninja
Banned
GTA 4 at 60fps 
DrumNBassDanTTV
Member
The way MS is marketing these bloody consoles is lame, TELL US THE GOOD STUFF YOUR SHIT CAN DO AND STOP LETTING THESE GAME SITES TELL US!!!! SELL YOUR CONSOLE TO NON BELIVERS!
TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
Is microsoft retarted? or those that said otherwise?
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
They are not, however their PR might be.
They already paired a good CPU with a good GPU=XSX
DarkMage619
$MSFT
You know that the XSS is designed to run games at 1440p. They make a product for 4k gaming. Why is it such an issue for you to accept that? They wanted to keep the price down so they dropped the drive and limited its resolution. You can't get more at a better price. No one else is doing even half as much as MS in this space. The XSS is fine.
01011001
Banned
yes. basically all BC games are available digitally as well. some are not anymore due to licensing (Forza Horizon 1 and 2 for example) so these you can only get on disc now if you don't own them digitally already.
it should be the same. maybe a tiny bit faster on X due to the CPU being slightly higher clocked.
but we're talking differences of half a second or less here
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kunonabi
Member
Cool, thanks. I suppose Series S is the better option then. I can't imagine 4K being all that important for old games.
TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
I also have both Ninja Gaiden 1 & 2 on discs, mint condition.
I snagged their digital versions when they were on sale for a tenner.
just for the convenience.
They do care. In fact they have a very sweet proposition for us, a ps3 game redone for 80e
Of course. Both physical and digital.
duuude!!
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
What is your problem? The console can do 4K. The HDMI cable is not broken, 4 TFLOPS for an RDNA2 chip can render that resolution with non trivial math per pixel, and we are talking about original Xbox and Xbox 360 games here.
Your best answer is to tout the company line without any critical thinking and defending their business decision and not reading what other people type (?!? which results in an almost canned response that reads like a script).
This would be almost fine and not hilarious if you were not also shouting about how white knightly pro-consumer they supposedly are in everything they do
RoadHazard
Gold Member
So for double framerate the games have to be patched. Much like PS5 then, except I guess PS5 doesn't do automatic resolution increase.
Its better in some aspects and worse in others. Texture filtering, HDR implementation (Xbox One X doesn't have even have that), and performance are better. Resolution is worse.
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Kagey K
Banned
Ninja Gaiden has an amazing level of detail for an OG Xbox game that really shines through in 4K. FF13 also got major upgrades and could pass for a current gen game.
It really shows how the systems they were originally on held those games back.
See
TheGreatWhiteShark
post above.
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Are we really gonna go the route of complaining that a nondisc drive console cant play discs, WHILE there's a version with a disc drive available?
I mean its unfortunate but there is a console for someone wanting to use a disc and one for someone not wanting. Cant be much simpler.
I mean its unfortunate but there is a console for someone wanting to use a disc and one for someone not wanting. Cant be much simpler.
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
I predict (as well as BC is going on Xbox) that SONY will get a grip on it by PS6, 7, some games are just too good to not be played on current consoles.
Kagey K
Banned
Same rules apply for PS4 BC and the PS5 DE. Awfully silly to complain about it when both systems “more affordable“ versions have the same drawback.
TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
yeah, also except* microsoft is actually ...you know... DOING THIS
01011001
Banned
man, I just want MGS4 to use modern hardware in order to hit 60fps...
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
Why PS6 when they can do it now?
ReBurn
Gold Member
I mean, there's near perfect emulation of most PS1 and PS2 games for free on PC from open source hobbyists. That community emulated PS2 on unlocked PS4 consoles. There's no technical reason to not do it. It has to be a strategy decision by Sony, not a resource issue. If they can put tens of millions into a single game there's no reason for them to not put a few million into emulation and let people buy PS1 and PS2 games on their store. The onl reason I can think of is that they licensed technology for those old consoles that they don't want to pay royalties for now.
I never said they cant do it. Im saying its not the best thing to do. The only Backwards compatibility that is necessary is PS4, which runs on PS5.
PS1-3 would be a nice perk but it isn't necessary (Like it or Not).
There focus should be on making new content and making the PS5 Hardware sing thus driving sales and getting folks into the ecosystem and driving PS Plus subs.
Only a miniscule of people in the grande scheme of things would buy a PS5 to Play Metal Gear Solid 3. That's the truth. Just sayin.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Because so far they feel it is a cost their customers will not find valuable enough compared to other uses of that money they could make. I disagree, but heck...