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[BattleScar]

I believe that is entirely analogous to "being held back".

They're "being held back" from using a newer, more powerful baseline; because of an older, but previously successful baseline.

In other words, the PS4's success is holding them back.

To be sure, this is not necessarily a bad thing for the first wave or two of games. But at some point they can't keep being meekly risk averse. They'll have to take the plunge and I think most people are in agreement that it should be sooner rather than later.

 

[Kdad]

Why bother with a website...they could simply write such well thought out arguments right here on GAF.

 

[SlicedBread3]

I had to remind myself what the PS4 launch titles even were. It's been a while. Here's the list:

Flower
Killzone Shadow Fall
Knack
Resogun
Sound Shapes
Escape Plan
Flow

Pretty anemic. I guess Resogun was cross-gen, and of course Flow and Flower are cross-gen ports. Killzone and Knack were only on PS4. I don't know about Sound Shapes and Escape Plan, but they sound like indies that could've easily appeared on PS3 as well. So, kind of a mix.

I think the transition from PS3 to PS4 was a little different, too, because of the weird Cell architecture vs. the standard PS4 structure. It's not so easy to build two versions, with those choices. It would take more work, compared to PS4 and 5.

Sounds Shapes and Escape Plan were cross gen ports too. So it was really only Resogun (Which wasn't first party, so not really so surprising). Nothing on the level of Horizon or Halo.

So I think it's easy to see why people wouldn't expect it when it's not something they've really done before and Sony's PR went out of their way to make it sound like they weren't going to do it now.

 

[CatLady]

Sony fanboys have been quick to run with anything that gives PS5 an edge or makes Xbox look bad and harp on it endlessly. It keeps coming back to bite them in the ass. It started last year with teraflops. They were really, really important before Cerny revealed the PS5 specs.

In the Spec thread they would idolize any fake insider willing to say the PS5 was more powerful and had more tfs than the XsX and demonize anyone who mentioned GitHub or intimated that PS5 was closer to redacted tfs or 10 tfs. They road that 13.8tf hype train into Cerny's reveal and came out with a 10tf variable PS5 and suddenly teraflops didn't matter anymore.

When the Series X was revealed at The Game Awards they couldn't get enough of the fridge memes constantly harping on how big it was, how ugly and how there was no way it would fit on anyone's entertainment center until the much bigger and unbelievably uglier PS5 router/air purifier was revealed. Of course most of them claim that giant monstrosity will fit into their entertainment centers.

Then we come to to the topic of the OP. For months the Sony army has droned on and on about "lol Xbox isn't going to have next gen games" due to cross gen until the end of 2021, but PS5 1st party will all be next gen exclusive. PS5 games couldn't be played on PS4, Sony believes in generations blah, blah, blah.

Uh nope. And here is Dual Shockers like many fanboys doing damage control for Sony once again.

 

[Camreezie]

How is this different from any other generation? Haven't developers always continued to make games for the older console well past the next gen's console release?

It's not any different

 

[BlackM1st]

One day Sony and MS will hire a proper marketing managers that will teach them that "stfu" is the best damage control there is. One day blind fans will see through the corp talk. One day...

 

[Barakov]

Dualshockers going pretty hard right now.

 

[BlackM1st]

It's not any different

It's different because MS was stupid enough to promote last gen support for years to come while Sony was stupid enough to imply that they will cut PS4 asap starting from new Spidey, Horizon, etc.

Of course fanboys ran with it, it's the nature of the beast.

But don't tell me that Sony didn't knew what they were doing. Them holding back information about PS4 versions is making it clear as day.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

So were the PS1 and PS2. This new style of gradual transitions sucks and I imagine it will only accelerate into making more people PC-first gamers and the high-end consoles do nothing to differentiate themselves from fixed-spec PC boxes.

Actually, as a PC-first gamer, I guess it doesn't suck, but there's definitely a feeling of sadness that consoles really aren't what they used to be.

 

[Agent X]

I say this as somewhat of a Sony fanboy myself. Early on, I said several times that most PS5 games would be cross gen for a couple years. I was told that no, Sony has confirmed that they'll all be exclusive to PS5. That didn't make much sense (given the massive install base of PS4, the costs of these games, and the fact that many, like Horizon, had been in development long before the PS5 existed). But everyone seemed so sure, so I just nodded my head and went along with it. I didn't check the sources either.

Good post.

The issue here is that you had extremists on both sides of the fence, that took one particular talking point from their favorite company and stretched it to the extreme. One group proclaimed that it was good and necessary to have games straddle the generations, and restricting a new game to new hardware was "anti-consumer". The other group countered by saying that new systems need new and exclusive games, and continuing to produce games with the old system in mind was a detestable practice.

In reality, it's good to have a balance of both philosophies when introducing a new system. They should continue to make certain games available for the older systems (if they can handle them without significant cutbacks), while there is also a need for the new system to have some exclusive showpiece games that properly utilize its advanced features.

I had to remind myself what the PS4 launch titles even were. It's been a while. Here's the list:

Flower
Killzone Shadow Fall
Knack
Resogun
Sound Shapes
Escape Plan
Flow

Pretty anemic. I guess Resogun was cross-gen, and of course Flow and Flower are cross-gen ports. Killzone and Knack were only on PS4. I don't know about Sound Shapes and Escape Plan, but they sound like indies that could've easily appeared on PS3 as well. So, kind of a mix.

Resogun is an interesting case. It was originally developed for PS4 exclusively, but the game was ported down to PS3 and PS Vita about a year later. I don't think I've ever played the PS3 version, but the Vita version was surprisingly good--about as good as you could expect for that level of hardware.

 

[BrentonB]

Jim Ryan never said that PS4 development would stop entirely. That was inferred by other people. Cross-generation is a thing and has been for a long time. This is not surprising. You've seen the games actually running. Do Miles Morales or Ratchet & Clank look compromised to you? They sure don't to me.

 

[NullZ3r0]

It was too successful to ignore months ago. Why just now?

 

[Flying Toaster]

Sure Sony are dirty liars but honestly even with their pants on fire I will purchase day one for Demon's Souls.

 

[ZehDon]

Dualshockers quoting Sony: "Playstation Boss says there are no plans in making cross-gen titles"
Dualshcokers after Sony is caught in a lie: "PS4 success has PS5 early adopters feeling burned by PlayStation and cross-generation exclusive video games, but it only helps PS5 early adopters."

Halo Infinite isn't being held back folks, the Xbone was just too successful to ignore

 

[Jigsaah]

Dualshockers please... shut up... for a bit. We can talk about this more, but not now. At this point wait for images of the games to come out and let’s hope there are some launch window Hanes that are truly PS5 only targeted games.

Wait for images...so you mean don't jump to conclusions? I didn't think that was even possible on this forum. Surely this goes for both systems right?

 

[NullZ3r0]

It made no sense to believe that games developed years before the PS5 even existed would be developed only for the PS5. It made no sense to believe that PS5 would not have cross-gen exclusives. All previous console generations have had cross-gen exclusives for the first couple years. These games are too expensive and take too long to develop, for it to be otherwise. It made no sense to believe that Sony would leave all that money on the table.

Sony fanboys made an unrealistic, global assumption (that no PS5 exclusives would appear on PS4) based on a vague statement by Ryan, combined with the journalist's headline. Ryan and the journalist share some of the blame. Ryan could've been clearer, and the journalist could have checked his assumption rather than just printing it as a headline.

But the Sony fanboys share some of the blame, too, because instead of exercising a little critical thinking, they grabbed this assumption and ran headlong with it into the console wars, waving the banner of "PS5 games will be PS5-only." Even though Ryan never said that.

So why the lapse in critical thinking? Well, the answer is easy. Because it felt good. Because it scored Sony fanboys points in the console war. Because it was what they wanted to believe.

So they got burned. That's what happens when we make unrealistic assumptions. It's silly to blame mean ol' lyin' Jim Ryan, because the Sony fanboys are just as culpable. They made a global assumption based on a vague statement, they spread it like wildfire rather than exercising a little criticical thinking.

I say this as somewhat of a Sony fanboy myself. Early on, I said several times that most PS5 games would be cross gen for a couple years. I was told that no, Sony has confirmed that they'll all be exclusive to PS5. That didn't make much sense (given the massive install base of PS4, the costs of these games, and the fact that many, like Horizon, had been in development long before the PS5 existed). But everyone seemed so sure, so I just nodded my head and went along with it. I didn't check the sources either.

Oh well. You know what they say about making assumptions.

So Sony fanboys are to blame when Sony let this narrative fester for months and benefitted from the positive PR. However, when news stories about Sony cutting production came out, Sony put that rumor down in less than 24 hours.

 

[Humdinger]

My hope is that now that one "side" doesn't have a clear (illusory) advantage, we can stop using this issue (next-gen exclusives that are not "held back") as a console warrior talking point and focus on the games themselves.

The main one on my radar is Horizon. I have zero doubt that Guerilla will get the most out of the PS5 version. Will the game be "held back" in some way by the fact that it began development 3 1/2 years ago, years before the PS5 even existed? Probably. But I'm not disappointed.

I don't expect Guerilla to throw away tons of work, years into development, in order to redesign the whole game around just the PS5, in a way that excludes the PS4 option. Nor do I begrudge Sony wanting to turn a profit. They aren't doing us a favor, remember -- this is a business. These games are enormously expensive. If they were to turn their backs on the massive PS4 install base for a game like this, it would cost them tens of millions of dollars.

 

[BlackM1st]

Jim Ryan never said that PS4 development would stop entirely. That was inferred by other people. Cross-generation is a thing and has been for a long time. This is not surprising. You've seen the games actually running. Do Miles Morales or Ratchet & Clank look compromised to you? They sure don't to me.

Don't you dare to even compare new AAA entry of Ratchet to standalone DLC upport that Morales is. Ratchet is a true PS5 game.

 

[Humdinger]

Ratchet is a true PS5 game.

Yes, it's PS5 only. If you're looking for games that don't appear on PS4, there are still:

- Ratchet & Clank
- Demon's Souls
- Godfall
- Returnal

 

[BrentonB]

Don't you dare to even compare new AAA entry of Ratchet to standalone DLC upport that Morales is. Ratchet is a true PS5 game.

Oh, I dare. Did Miles Morales look compromised at all to you? It had all of the expected next-gen pizzazz on full display.

 

[BlackM1st]

Oh, I dare. Did Miles Morales look compromised at all to you? It had all of the expected next-gen pizzazz on full display.

Lmao, how you can compare an upport to the new game that is literally impossible on PS4?

Morales always looked like a PS4 game. Because news flash, it is the same fucking engine!

Compare infamous 2 to infamous on ps4. Or killzone on ps3 to killzone on ps4. That's what change of generation should look like.

"Morales is next gen"lmao... From the beginning it was an uninspiring cashgrab. Dlc pretending to be a new BIG game." Just slap a Spidey name on it and people will eat it". LoL, not me, tyvm.

 

[RoadHazard]

Of course these games are being held back in some aspects. That doesn't mean they won't look amazing on PS5, it just means they could have been more than they will be.

 

[mckmas8808]

It all depends how you approach the ports and like Microsoft it seems they are not getting separate teams to handle the ports. This isn't a like Tomb Raider or Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal where completely different teams are trying to adapt the game to work on lesser hardware.

If you aren't approaching it this way then the game is most certainly "held back."

Yeah why aren't Sony doing this?

 

[Dr. Claus]

Generations have always had crossgen releases for the first couple of years. Why are people acting like this is something brand new and will hurt the next generation systems? It didn't before and it won't now.

I wonder if some people just have insanely short memories.

 

[BrentonB]

Lmao, how you can compare an upport to the new game that is literally impossible on PS4?

Morales always looked like a PS4 game. Because news flash, it is the same fucking engine!

Compare infamous 2 to infamous on ps4. Or killzone on ps3 to killzone on ps4. That's what change of generation should look like.

"Morales is next gen"lmao... From the beginning it was an uninspiring cashgrab. Dlc pretending to be a new BIG game." Just slap a Spidey name on it and people will eat it". LoL, not me, tyvm.

Ray traced reflections, more NPCs on screen, better textures, better shadows, higher resolution, more particle effects show the generational difference. All of which are not possible on PS4. It may be the same engine but it's clearly been improved.

 

[Peenolia010]

Very pro consumer.

Sounds like what Microsoft said about the Xbox One despite the Series X on the horizon.

 

[Orky]

This article didn’t age well:

Now what does this mean strategically for the two consoles? Ultimately, it is a pretty big win for the PS5. Xbox Series X is (for better or worse) running on a platform of continuity among generations — hoping to keep support running for the oldest versions of the Xbox One for years to come.

we might be seeing a couple years of resource-strapped Xbox Series X titles (rushed to support a continuing aged system). Meanwhile, the PS5 has more of an opportunity to break away from shackles of aged tech.

Cross Generation Developer Frustration Is a Win for PS5

According to insiders, developers are frustrated with developing for multiple generations. This could give PS5 the edge over Xbox Series X.

www.dualshockers.com

PlayStation Boss Says There Are No Plans in Making Cross-Gen Titles

After Ghost of Tsushima, don't expect any first-party titles to make it's way to the PlayStation 4.

www.dualshockers.com

 

[DrScissorsMD]

How is this so hard for Sony stans. The outrage is not about that PS4 is supported at all; some people aren't happy with last gen being supported and holding back next gen but that sentiment is directed at both Sony and MS. The outrage in this circumstance stems entirely from Sony being intentionally misleading with their communication and marketing so while forums and media were railing against MS for supporting last gen for months, they had every intention of doing the same thing with some of their big IPs and only decided to reveal this in a blog post amidst the pricing/reveal/pre-order chaos.

Get your fucking PS Move wands out of your ass, pull the 6 trillion dollar vita memory cards out of your ears, take your PSVR headset off and come back to the real world where, just like MS, Sony is not some misunderstood teenage girl you have to white-knight for because "she's just misunderstood"; they're fucking companies looking for your money and if they do something shitty they should get called on it.

/ End rant

 

[Dr. Claus]

How is this so hard for Sony stans. The outrage is not about that PS4 is supported at all; some people aren't happy with last gen being supported and holding back next gen but that sentiment is directed at both Sony and MS. The outrage in this circumstance stems entirely from Sony being intentionally misleading with their communication and marketing so while forums and media were railing against MS for supporting last gen for months, they had every intention of doing the same thing with some of their big IPs and only decided to reveal this in a blog post amidst the pricing/reveal/pre-order chaos.

Get your fucking PS Move wands out of your ass, pull the 6 trillion dollar vita memory cards out of your ears, take your PSVR headset off and come back to the real world where, just like MS, Sony is not some misunderstood teenage girl you have to white-knight for because "she's just misunderstood"; they're fucking companies looking for your money and if they do something shitty they should get called on it.

/ End rant

How is it shitty? Why is it such a big deal? They aren't taking money from you. They aren't forcing you to buy the console. They aren't attacking your person. They made a business move that would make them more money - a move they have done during the PS2, PS3, and PS4 gens as well. A move that has been done by almost every last multi-generational console manufacturer.

 

[ZywyPL]

This article didn’t age well:

Cross Generation Developer Frustration Is a Win for PS5

According to insiders, developers are frustrated with developing for multiple generations. This could give PS5 the edge over Xbox Series X.

www.dualshockers.com

PlayStation Boss Says There Are No Plans in Making Cross-Gen Titles

After Ghost of Tsushima, don't expect any first-party titles to make it's way to the PlayStation 4.

www.dualshockers.com

One and done. LMFAO. I can only imagine how hard it is to be a Playstation fanboy nowadays when it's Sony themselves who is your biggest enemy xD

 

[Panajev2001a]

Wait for images...so you mean don't jump to conclusions? I didn't think that was even possible on this forum. Surely this goes for both systems right?

Again replying before reading things out properly, it was a suggestion for them [the site] not to jump to conclusions that games have not been held back on PS5, because the understanding is that they have.

That does not mean the games will look like shit. I think the game can have a pretty cost of paint and more NPC’s and objects in the streets, but true next generation games are expected to do better.

 

[Orky]

It's different because MS was stupid enough to promote last gen support for years to come while Sony was stupid enough to imply that they will cut PS4 asap starting from new Spidey, Horizon, etc.

Of course fanboys ran with it, it's the nature of the beast.

But don't tell me that Sony didn't knew what they were doing. Them holding back information about PS4 versions is making it clear as day.

its not only about „holding back“ information, it’s actually lying about this thing and acting like they were doing the COMPLETE OPPOSITE and being praised for it.

People were actually shitting on Mirosoft and praising Sony for doing it these ways, although MS and Sony are doing the exact same things.



Here: https://www.dualshockers.com/playstation-no-plans-cross-gen-titles/

 

[DrScissorsMD]

How is it shitty? Why is it such a big deal? They aren't taking money from you. They aren't forcing you to buy the console. They aren't attacking your person. They made a business move that would make them more money - a move they have done during the PS2, PS3, and PS4 gens as well. A move that has been done by almost every last multi-generational console manufacturer.

What kind of bullshit excuse is that. Because they're selling a product I'm not forced to buy or because they're not attacking my person, I or others can't point out when they do something disingenuous?

No fucking shit it's done for money, did you read my post at all? Why are you shilling so hard for an already successful company to make more money by, again, doing something disingenuous?

I was pretty clear in why it's shitty, and I'm one of many expressing the same concern. If you don't think it's a big deal, good for you, but your here debating plenty of people think it is so that speaks for itself.

What else ya got, champion?

 

[Dr. Claus]

What kind of bullshit excuse is that. Because they're selling a product I'm not forced to buy or because they're not attacking my person, I or others can't point out when they do something disingenuous?

No fucking shit it's done for money, did you read my post at all? Why are you shilling so hard for an already successful company to make more money by, again, doing something disingenuous?

I was pretty clear in why it's shitty, and I'm one of many expressing the same concern. If you don't think it's a big deal, good for you, but your here debating plenty of people think it is so that speaks for itself.

What else ya got, champion?

Not shilling - I have no particular horse in this race. I will buy both platforms at launch. I just don't see what the issue is.

However, you seem way too worked up over something that is a non-issue. Maybe take some anger management classes, OK champ?

 

[OuterLimits]

Generations have always had crossgen releases for the first couple of years. Why are people acting like this is something brand new and will hurt the next generation systems? It didn't before and it won't now.

I wonder if some people just have insanely short memories.

I don't think anyone is arguing that it's super unusual. However, Sony certainly could have announced months ago that certain games would be cross gen(including some of their biggest games). Instead they spent all summer bragging about "we at Sony believe in generations" and then finally revealed many of Their games would still be on PS4 only after their big show finished.

I'm not a Xbox fan(own PS4, Switch) but I give Microsoft credit for being more honest about their plans to support cross gen.

I'm not a huge fan of Jim Ryan at the helm of PlayStation.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

This forum was pretty positive on how Miles Morales looked prior to this news, if the game doesn't look held back until you know a PS4 version exists then maybe the problem is you?

 

[Jigsaah]

Again replying before reading things out properly, it was a suggestion for them [the site] not to jump to conclusions that games have not been held back on PS5, because the understanding is that they have.

That does not mean the games will look like shit. I think the game can have a pretty cost of paint and more NPC’s and objects in the streets, but true next generation games are expected to do better.

Ok, Bob. So do you mean to tell me that you offered the same "wait and see" approach to Xbox SKU's as well?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Ok, Bob. So do you mean to tell me that you offered the same "wait and see" approach to Xbox SKU's as well?

You do not get it again, reading off a script or just not bothering?

My point: “website, you are embarrassing yourself... sure you can add a nice lick of paint and add some objects and make it look better, but it is held back on the PS5 if it has to run also on the PS4 as it needs to keep its limitations and performance in mind”

How is it different from me saying XSS (and Xbox One focus for the next two years) holds XSX back?

If so, sure I will keep having the same approach for both thanks .

 

[The Pleasure]

Surely there is no bias in an article about PlayStation from a site name Dualshockers.

Dualshockers is the name of a sex move.

 

[Kumomeme]

no way that old jaguar wont get held back.

there will be reverse statement in 2-3 years later when ps5 gaining momentum while ps4 is decline.

 

[Halo is Back]

-Xbox Series S exist:

"OMG MS is holding back gaming!"



-PS5 has cross gen games too:

"Good move Sony, this is pro consumer!"

 

[MrFunSocks]

It's not any different

It’s very different. Sony have pretty much always dropped software support for the previous generation instantly, at most releasing 1 more game on the previous generation. They never released a cross gen game months after the release of a new console.

 

[FranXico]

Enough with the damage control. Yes, cross-gen games are less for supporting previous gen.

 

[sinnergy]

Sony consoles are not , only MS have that problem , didn’t you get the memo ??

 

[FeiRR]

I'll wait for footage of HZD2 on both PS4 and PS5 to judge if any sacrifices have been made. This site isn't trustworthy, they publish a lot of clickbait.

 

[Business]

So in Horizon ZD, they couldn't get flying machines running because they couldn't stream the map quickly enough, or they had to make Meridian have a long bridge on one end and a massive elevator on the other so the hardware has time to load it. Now they make Horizon FW cross-gen but they still try to feed people this bs that the PS5 version won't be held back?

 

[Humdinger]

Generations have always had crossgen releases for the first couple of years. Why are people acting like this is something brand new and will hurt the next generation systems? It didn't before and it won't now.

I wonder if some people just have insanely short memories.

I think some people enjoy outrage and the opportunity to ridicule or criticize the "other side." It's just part of how they function. It excites them. Maybe they're bored without something to attack, I don't know. I know I'm glad I'm not them.

 

[FunkMiller]

It’s incredibly hypocritical to (rightly) lambast Microsoft for dictating that games have to play on old consoles, but then say it’s okay for Sony to do it.

Making games for old consoles holds back games. No matter who’s doing it. If you think it’s okay for one company, but not okay for the other, you’re demonstrating a clear bias, and need to have a word with yourself.

 

[thelastword]

The proof is in the pudding......Spiderman, Horizon, GT......They all look like next gen games.......Even if GOW is multiplat, it will look liek a next gen game too...

LOU 2 and Ghosts were already looking like next gen games already.......Have mercy when all titles are PS5 only....

 

[Clear]

Enough with the damage control. Yes, cross-gen games are less for supporting previous gen.

Depends on the game, MGSV remains a better technical showpiece than most games of its gen.