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Demon’s Souls Remake needs to have an Easy difficulty setting
- Thread starter The_Dama
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Nymphae
Banned
If all you want is to appreciate the art, music, ambiance, etc., then a Youtube video is indeed going to let you do all of that, there are some fine quality streams for most modern games. You are dead set on the developer providing an alternative to their vision for people who aren't interested in that. Sorry princess this ain't your game.
FukuDaruma
Member
Oh... so this is "forbidden" for me then, it's some special thing I'm not "entitled" to... yeah, fuck that.
I'm on PC and so I will play what and how I want, despite what the devs barriers want. Just go see how amazing 2014's Assetto Corsa got thanks to modding despite the original devs complaining about the original code being "raped". Greatest PC feature.Totally agree, that's exactly why some people's needs differ from others. These games are "hard". They are not "too hard" for you, but they are "too hard" for others.
I'm on the side of "better make it "not too hard" for them then", instead of the "fuck your needs, go play something else" one.
It doesn't. That was an answer to that repetitive smart ass "here's your easy mode: (pathetic stream quality link)"
I play soulsborne games and plenty of others too. No personal complaints here.
Nobody wants to "consoooome" your special soulflake game, don't worry. Some people with lesser capabilities or different needs than you want to be able to enjoy it. Just stop concerning yourself with what others do or need that doesn't affect you in any way, as they do with you. They'll be happier, you'll be happier and your anus will be happier.
Airola
Member
Why do you want to deny others to experience playing a game that is very hard at its lowest difficulty? Don't you have any empathy?
DunDunDunpachi
Patient MembeR
Cool, so you have no reason to complain since you already have the tools you need.Oh... so this is "forbidden" for me then, it's some special thing I'm not "entitled" to... yeah, fuck that.
If these tools are available to others, what's the point of the OP?
Oh, it's to browbeat people and make assumptions about why they like a difficult game. Nothing new, then.
I'm not on any side. I evaluate each product as its own piece of entertainment.
Drawing an arbitrary, dogmatic line on what is "too hard" is bizarre to me. The only time I really think about howhat difficulty is when I'm playing it. I don't make assumptions about what others find "too hard" and I don't demand changes accordingly.
Why do you take it upon yourself to "concern yourself" with what others do or don't need that doesn't affect you in any way?It doesn't. That was an answer to that repetitive smart ass "here's your easy mode: (pathetic stream quality link)"
I play soulsborne games and plenty of others too. No personal complaints here.
Nobody wants to "consoooome" your special soulflake game, don't worry. Some people with lesser capabilities or different needs than you want to be able to enjoy it. Just stop concerning yourself with what others do or need that doesn't affect you in any way, as they do with you. They'll be happier, you'll be happier and your anus will be happier.
There's already a divide between people who play Souls for the pvp and people who play Souls to solo it, people who play for the lore/atmosphere and people who play for the difficulty, people who prefer the RPG aspects and people who prefer the action/combat. All of these "many different reasons" for playing the series exist in spite of there only being one difficulty mode.
There are people who insist on PC because of frame-rates and others who are fine with the console versions. You might even say that any difference in game performance makes it "easier" or "harder", therefore you'd get Sekiro players on Xbox One S bragging that they're "better" than PC players because they have to deal with worse frame-rate.
There's squabbling and disagreement (put me in a room with a Dark Souls 2 loyalist....). Each of the demands are tempered by counter-demands from others. Yet, they can all exist under the same umbrella.
Then there are brainlets like you, who show up to browbeat and make demands.
Nah, trash like you should be laughed at, not listened to.
FukuDaruma
Member
Yeah, pretty clear now what you understand for "fine quality"
"alternative vision" "people who aren't interested"...
People who are interested in being able to enjoy the game but are unable to are asking for an option. That tremendously huge "alternative vision".
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Balducci30
Member
I’d prefer they did for me personally but I get that’s like against the core philosophy of these games
Nymphae
Banned
No you're not, you're interested in assets and ambiance, the game requires skill you don't want to put up
FukuDaruma
Member
Maybe he's console exclusive, didn't know about those tools, prefer for the devs to set a proper balanced but easier difficulty...
"arbitrary, dogmatic line..." what? each person decides what is "too hard" for them. I'm not gonna tell you what's "too hard" for you. That's for you to decide. Don't pretend to know what is or isn't for others then.
Why do you take it upon yourself to "concern yourself" with what others do or don't need that doesn't affect you in any way?
You were all normal until the very end, when the real salty soulflake gatekeeper jumped out of the shell.
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
This was a meme thread straight out of gamefaqs guys. DS is far from being difficult.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
It doesn't even take "skill", all the game is asking is patience and engagement to its system....basically act of playing video game.
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Airola
Member
Imagine if people started to demand Mike Tyson and his manager to be less tough for those who feel he is too tough of an opponent.
Imagine Mike Tyson and his manager caving in to those demands.
What would happen to Mike Tyson the brand?
Imagine people demanding Usain Bolt to run slower for certain opponents.
Imagine Usain Bolt caving in.
What would happen to Usain Bolt the brand?
This is essentially what people who demand all games to have easy options are asking for.
You want to get rid of the idea of the unbeatable opponent and you want to make the world of video games less diverse.
Imagine Mike Tyson and his manager caving in to those demands.
What would happen to Mike Tyson the brand?
Imagine people demanding Usain Bolt to run slower for certain opponents.
Imagine Usain Bolt caving in.
What would happen to Usain Bolt the brand?
This is essentially what people who demand all games to have easy options are asking for.
You want to get rid of the idea of the unbeatable opponent and you want to make the world of video games less diverse.
Nymphae
Banned
There is a tiny bit of skill required, especially in like Bloodborne, but yeah for the most part all these take is dedication.
TranscendentDee
Member
It didnt need one before and it does not need one now.
Nymphae
Banned
There must be a reason none of these game have had one thus far. Possibly that the game makers see the difficulty as part of the experience they intend the player to have. Who are people to tell them that they should be making the game differently so that you can experience select parts of the experience?
DunDunDunpachi
Patient MembeR
Monster Hunter World didn't offer difficulty modes.
www.hollywoodreporter.com
.
'Monster Hunter: World' Becomes Capcom's All-Time Best Seller With 14M Units Sold | Hollywood Reporter
www.hollywoodreporter.com
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Tell me whats wrong for developers making games they want to make? FROM got well known exactly because they don't follow "industry standards", great games are made when developers take risks, it might not appeal to everybody but that how we get unforgettable games.....WHATS SO WRONG ABOUT THAT!!?
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Andodalf
Banned
Nobody. I never said that they should, but that if they do it's fine, and their prerogative. People in this thread are acting like they would die IRL if the game had an easy mode. In terms of no past games having one, this is a different dev, so I wouldn't be shocked.
Personably I always found it impressive when games had no difficulty levels, and were just presented as is. It made the devs seem very confident in their work.
LMAO dude clam down. Please tell me when I ever said the game should have one? I just said it's not the end of the world if it does. And you still haven't made an argument to the contrary.
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FukuDaruma
Member
When I said "people" I meant the people asking for an easier option. Those people are interested, as opposed to what you said: "providing an alternative to their vision for people who aren't interested in that."
Nobody is asking for an "alternative vision" for "people who aren't interested"... the people interested are asking for an easier difficulty option. Labeling that as a whole "alternative vision" is exaggerating what it really is.
If you would have been reading you would have seen me state, many times already, that this is not about "me". I do pretty fine, I just customize the most boringly repetitive parts and I'm ok. I'm just not an "adrenaline junkie" or a "me special superaccomplished macho winner real gamer" type.
I enjoy games my way. Cool. You enjoy games your way. Great. People that ask for an option to be able to enjoy a game they want in the way they need. I'm all for it. Let them.
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Airola
Member
It's a game where the lowest possible difficulty is very hard.
People like the experience that comes with the knowledge of there being zero ways to make it easier.
As soon as you put the option in the game, the game is not anymore a game where the lowest possible difficulty is very hard.
I get that you don't understand the difference, but please try to understand. This is the core of the idea and philosophy of these games and it is what makes them fun and interesting for their fans. You are asking to take away the core of these games, so claiming it doesn't have an effect is absolutely incorrect.
EDIT:
And for the record, I'm not a fan of these games. I have only played Dark Souls 2 for maybe 10 minutes. I don't care much about modern games. But I'm a fan of the idea of these games so while I wouldn't play these games I will defend their philosophy.
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DunDunDunpachi
Patient MembeR
Prove that this Hypothetical Easy Mode won't affect the game. Checkmate, Soulsflakes.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
I dont want to see Souls series end up like Dead Rising, Capcom took most of its unique mechanics from first game to make it have more "mass appeal" and what we end up with is the 4th game that it no longer Dead Rising and just became generic open world with zombies.
People need to accept the fact not every game is going to appeal to everybody, that how it is with movies, books and comics and everything else in life.
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Bombolone
Gold Member
Well said.
I think people have become accustomed to a certain type of engagement with modern games, where essentially you can brute force your way through to the end.
I know playing BB and games alike, I had to get it through my head I have to pay attention to what I'm doing.
Uncharted, God of War, CODs (campaign), Assassins Creeds, open worlds and others get me in a habit of 'essentially holding forward' and sooner or later the credits roll. I have literally nodded off to those mentioned games more than once.
Don't know what to say. Play something else or watch a Let's Play or pray at an alter an easy mode is added.
Nymphae
Banned
It wouldn't bother me in the slightest if they added one for people, as you say it's their call who they want to make the game for. But the crying over a game not providing options for lesser players is funny to me and reeks of entitlement. Not all games are for everybody, and if you want to experience everything but the hard gameplay in this one, you have options to do that. BUT I DON'T LIKE THOSE OPTIONS I WANT TO FEEL LIKE I'M GETTING THE BIG BOY EXPERIENCE
"Gimp your game so I can see late-game assets" sounds like it to me.
I don't think so at all. Maybe the devs strongly feel their game should not be cake walked through. If that's their vision, and what 4 games in a row now with no difficulty options despite tons of bitching about how hard they are, would suggest that the difficulty itself is important to the experience they wish players to have.
And all I'm saying here is that if the maker of the game deems a hard experience essential to the experience, they don't have to add anything for people not interested in that. You watch it on stream if you're that interested in the art, and move on to something you do have fun playing.
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FukuDaruma
Member
That's because that's another straw man to add to the long list in this thread.
"cake walk", "smash R1 to kill boss at first try", "baby stroll"... same old same old absurd exaggerations and false dilemmas.
It's not either "ultra hard" or "cake walk" options. Making it easiER for the people that find it impossible is not suddenly turning it into a "cake walk". For those people, even an easiER mode could be harder than the current difficulty is for you.
Or... I play them like I want at top quality and wipe my ass with everybody else's opinion about it.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
there is a fallacy underpinning your entire argument. i've highlighted it.
you are not unable to play the game. you are not unable to beat it or enjoy it.
you can do it. but you have to try. you are basically saying you won't try.
that's the problem. you are admitting defeat right from the start.
these games have been beaten by so many people who thought they were impossible. they did it without lowering the bar.
you can as well. you only have to believe in yourself.
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Nymphae
Banned
It's not a strawman at all. You want the intended challenge level to be lessened so you can experience the things you personally value (art, sound, music, ambient, immersion)
The point is that the intended experience is for it to be a certain level of challenge, and the fact that the developer refuses to capitulate to the whines for easier difficulty levels sort of indicates that they consider the challenge level they present in their games to be very important to the experience, they clearly do not want their games to be experienced without the challenge.
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FukuDaruma
Member
Nothing denied, because it would be just an addition for other people, and they won't use it. They get exactly the same. The only difference is they don't get to deny others that need it easier to be able to play.
Doom's easy mode doesn't hurt or affect in any way the people playing it on Ultra Nightmare, unless they were entitled doomflakes crying over "but I need others not to be able to play it different than me!"
So the second answer is no, there shouldn't be any empathy for the people whose only point is denying others.
You can't twist that with your absurd proposition: "you are denying my right to deny!" doesn't fly.
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Flying Toaster
Member
The great thing about From games in the Souls universe is that everyone is on the same level. Sure some people have to work harder as they need to learn mechanics but at the end of the day everyone is given the same game.
I wish work, school, relationships all had easier modes.
I wish work, school, relationships all had easier modes.
FukuDaruma
Member
That was just an example of people having different reasons than yours to play, and different ways of enjoying these games. For the 100th time, It's not about me. Personally, I don't even need an easier mode. The people asking for it do. Some of you just say "no you don't", as if you know them better than themselves. Or even worse: "if you're not able to "git gud" enough, then you don't deserve to play".
Again: making it easier for people with lesser capabilities than yours doesnt suddenly turn them into games "without challenge". An easier experience for those people may still be harder for them than the normal mode is for you.
Nymphae
Banned
Who cares lol, what I'm saying applies to the people you are arguing for
Why do you think that they have not once added easier options? I believe it's because A) they want the player to experience a specific level of challenge, and B) these games are actually easy if you take your time and play with focus. The grinding and leveling are the pathways for "people with lesser capabilities" to finish the games
NY_Metropolitan
Neo Member
I agree.
Or atleast give me an option to turn the fatigue off.
Or atleast give me an option to turn the fatigue off.
FukuDaruma
Member
No, it doesn't, "lol":
This was just my personal case. And I'm not even asking (much less "demanding") anything.
I'm not a strong enough fan to know if Miyazaki ever said anything about it. For starters, japanese people are crazy.
They have a special kind of love for suffering, torture and general sadomasochistic stuff. But the idea of making something crazy hard is not even original:
Takeshi Kitano’s nearly impossible-to-complete videogame
Thanks to Tweeter Paul Weedon, I was last week alerted to the existence of Takeshi no Chōsenjō aka Takeshi’s Challenge, the ill-fated 1988 venture into the world of videogaming by indefatigab…
permanentplastichelmet.com
and definitely not a totally untouchable feature that otherwise would turn these games to shit.
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FukuDaruma
Member
The fallacy is "everybody can play these games the same", or the even much funnier "they are not even hard!".
You sound exactly the same as the "you cheated not only the game but yourself" meme. Hardcore fans totally agree with that, normal people find it so ridiculously extreme it became a meme.
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Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
You can laugh all you want but the fact is that there is no learning curve to Souls combat system and there is no complex system for you to learn. What this game is really asking you is to be patience and engage with the game. Is not type of game that you can just turn your brain off and still except to beat it, you have to put effort to it.....you know, act of playing video games.The fallacy is "everybody can play these games the same", or the even much funnier "they are not even hard!".
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Flying Toaster
Member
When was it that we started asking for games to hold our hands. I think it had to have started around the time of forced tutorial missions for everything and I recall that the biggest turn off from Skyrim was the quest markers and the ease of travel.
I think there is an entire generation of gamer that never had to deal with NES, Arcade games or 80's-90's PC games.
Could you imagine if there were threads such as I think 7th guest puzzles should be easier or why does Myst make me think!?!. I can imagine the thread now... I work hard and I have kids to take care of and responsibilities I don't have time for gosh darned puzzles before bed.
If you want to experience everything Demon's Souls has watch a play-through... I am going to tell you right now that at the end of the day you will feel empty inside because the experience of the game is surviving and learning, laughing and dying because of ego of getting past the previous difficult encounters.
The Souls experience is the journey not the game itself. The souls community is tightly knit because we all had to get past the same things and we are united by those trials. Even those that grind like mad and have friends help them past bosses still played and learned allowing them to cherish the experience as much as those of us that refuse the help.
I think there is an entire generation of gamer that never had to deal with NES, Arcade games or 80's-90's PC games.
Could you imagine if there were threads such as I think 7th guest puzzles should be easier or why does Myst make me think!?!. I can imagine the thread now... I work hard and I have kids to take care of and responsibilities I don't have time for gosh darned puzzles before bed.
If you want to experience everything Demon's Souls has watch a play-through... I am going to tell you right now that at the end of the day you will feel empty inside because the experience of the game is surviving and learning, laughing and dying because of ego of getting past the previous difficult encounters.
The Souls experience is the journey not the game itself. The souls community is tightly knit because we all had to get past the same things and we are united by those trials. Even those that grind like mad and have friends help them past bosses still played and learned allowing them to cherish the experience as much as those of us that refuse the help.
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S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
Easy mode exists. It is called using magic.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Airola
Member
And the most important thing is this:
You should accept that you might not beat the game.
People who accept that possible end result will more likely enjoy hard games even if they "are unable to play" them.
Airola
Member
Let me copy-paste what I wrote to a couple of other posters in this thread earlier:
It's a game where the lowest possible difficulty is very hard.
People like the experience that comes with the knowledge of there being zero ways to make it easier.
As soon as you put the option in the game, the game is not anymore a game where the lowest possible difficulty is very hard.
I get that you don't understand the difference, but please try to understand. This is the core of the idea and philosophy of these games and it is what makes them fun and interesting for their fans. You are asking to take away the core of these games, so claiming it doesn't have an effect is absolutely incorrect.
So yes, you absolutely are denying a certain video game experience from other players.
People want to have their unapologizingly tough video game. A game that does not offer an easier way out. They want to go to a video game world that holds no punches and keeps its later sections available only through playing with a certain level of challenge. When they get to the final area and the final boss, they have a different sense of them because they know the game in no way offered the player a way to get there easier. The bosses have a bigger sense of mystery when the player knows there never was a possibility to make the journey and the boss any easier.
An easy mode might not remove the option for challenge, but it absolutely removes the overall _sense_ of challenge. And that's absolutely the golden goose that you should not kill.
Doom does not have the same _sense_ of challenge as Souls games have. And that's because the easy modes exist. The bosses do not have the same _sense_ of dread the Souls bosses have. And that's because the easy modes exist. In Doom beating it in a harder mode feels like an option. In Souls games the challenge does not feel like an option.
Let them have their game. It doesn't hurt you or anyone else to play a game you might not be able to beat. We used to play games like that all the time back in the day. We didn't expect to beat the game. We tried and failed and sometimes succeeded. I am not a fan of these Souls games because I don't like modern games much in general, but I love the idea and the philosophy of them. Removing that idea and philosophy from these games would be a disgrace and it only makes the world of video games less diverse.
Let the world have a few games with this philosophy behind them. Let the world have a few games where the core of the game is that you feel you might not be able to beat them and where there is no other way to change that feeling except by trying to overcome it. There are people who enjoy exactly that and if you remove that from those games then you deny this experience from those players.
No-one is entitled to win every game there exists. Accept that and you will have fun even with games you can't win. I mean, isn't it better if you can enjoy both the games you can win and the games you can't win? These games are only a few in tens of thousands of games. Why do you want to remove even those few from existence?
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
I am in camp firmly no easy mode.
Airola
Member
Great examples!
I have played Myst many many times but I haven't ever been able to solve more than a couple of puzzles. I'm terribly bad at that game but the fact that it doesn't offer me any easier way to tackle it makes it amazingly mysterious for me. I love the feeling of knowing I probably can't win this game. An easy mode with whatever guiding hands would remove that experience even if I didn't ever use it. It would make the island feel like it's not REALLY that tough place, all you have to do is to click a thing in options screen and the island changes its form into more manageable one. They way it is now keeps the island exactly as mysterious and even dreadful as it was intended.