oldergamer
Member
The proof was that they said it was not true. No game has a budget that big. Its stupid rumor that make zero sense.
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Halo Infinite | Campaign Gameplay Premiere – 8 Minute Demo
- Thread starter Mista
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oldergamer
Member
No its not
DeltaPolarBear
Member
Halo Infinite is not a next gen game, it was announced a long time ago and is about as next gen as Ghost of Tsushima.
For that matter, BotW was not current gen because it was built to run on the WiiU. I expect massive improvements with the official BotW2 that would actually be built for Switch.
Andodalf
Banned
What is?
iHaunter
Member
DeltaPolarBear
Member
Yes. Because regardless of low frame rate, the game is still restricted by hardware. I have been gaming long enough to know how this works, I didn't start gaming this gen.
iHaunter
Member
That's not how engines work. It won't look any better if just developed for the "Switch," if any improvements are made they will be extremely minor. The Switch is a very weak console.
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DeltaPolarBear
Member
The WiiU is an even weaker console. I am not implying BotW2 isn't going to be a hand-held game title, because it will be. But it would still not be held down by the WiiU restrictions. Not being cross-gen is a massive advantage, imagine trying to run Mario Odyssey on wiiU.
Look, I know the Xbox narrative that scaling down infinitely is possible had been around for half a year, but i thought we all admit they were lying at this point? Or do i have to go through the song and dance until the thing launches?
SafeOrAlone
Banned
Do y'all think 343 has the experience or talent at this point to make a great game? How about the writer they just brought in who was around in the Bungie days? Meaningful?
I saw him in an old doc the other day saying that they sometimes do their best work in the "final hour", so to speak. I found that interesting, considering he was just brought in, but will it make a difference?
Have they acquired any other former Bungie employees?
I ask because I've never played a 343 Halo game, even though I was a big fan up until Reach. I'm about to have an Xbox (Series X) for the first time in a decade, so I've been out of the loop.
I saw him in an old doc the other day saying that they sometimes do their best work in the "final hour", so to speak. I found that interesting, considering he was just brought in, but will it make a difference?
Have they acquired any other former Bungie employees?
I ask because I've never played a 343 Halo game, even though I was a big fan up until Reach. I'm about to have an Xbox (Series X) for the first time in a decade, so I've been out of the loop.
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Concern
Member
I think 343 is a train wreck. Idk if they can make a good "halo" game considering the Halo 5 campaign. The 8 minute infinite footage was beyond disappointing considering it is the flagship ip for Xbox.
However, Halo 4 and 5 were solid games. Just not good Halo games. I really don't know what tf went wrong with infinite for them to show us a demo like that.
I just really hope they can turn it around for release. Halo 2 and 3 mp were the golden days of online competitive fps.
Andodalf
Banned
The pieces are there. Halo 4 did really interesting stuff with the story but alienated outsiders, and the MP was a misstep. It also felt hamstrung as a 360 game, it felt like it needed to wait and be a One title. It feels 10x better in MCC. Halo 5 had an abysmal story and campaign, but the MP was much better, and while different from old halo, still had a nice arena shooter feel and had a very resurgent pro scene. Again though, the game felt a bit rushed, as if MS just had to have the game come out to try and save the Xbox one. With Infinite, they’re getting the time and tech past games didn’t, and I expect a really solid game.
BusierDonkey
Member
Experience? Yes. They've been making games longer than a lot of studios even within Microsoft who are held in very high regard like Playground Games. A lot of them were holdovers from Bungie.
Talent? Yes. They have good designers and artists working there. Even Halo 5, as much of a disappointment as it was, was still a pretty good game. It still had good gameplay mechanics, well done art, animation, and music. Considering the hardware it released on, it was better graphically than I expected too. Unfortunately the sum of it's parts was not as good as the individual efforts that went into making it so the completed project felt nothing like a Halo game. The writing was awful, the story was abysmal, and nothing made any sense. This was all caused by bad decisions that were made by people who ignored complaints from the previous game and doubled down on previous bad decisions. Which brings us to the root of the problem at 343.
The big issue at 343 is in the leadership and how that talent is managed. Piss poor planning, allocation of resources, misuse of talent, and a carefree management style where the Director of the entire studio is spending more time fucking around being a symbol of diversity than making sure the studio releases a quality game. Who wastes time and money doing god knows what before just having Halo projects outsourced.
The best thing that could happen for Halo right now, would be for Microsoft to swoop in to the studio and clean house from the talent up. Halo's universe has a lot of potential beyond the original three games. Some of that was seen in games like Reach and ODST which gave a deeper look at that universe. Games like Halo Wars 1 & 2 (Ensemble & Creative Assembly) successfully further expanded the universe. The ball has been set up for 343 so many times over the years but they just can't seem to spike it because the person in charge is too busy over in the corner sniffing her own farts.
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iHaunter
Member
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Switch is barely stronger than the Wii U. There will be 0 game-changing additions made to BOTW2.
Nintendo Switch vs Nintendo Wii U 8GB: What is the difference?
What is the difference between Nintendo Switch and Nintendo Wii U 8GB? Find out which is better and their overall performance in the game console ranking.
versus.com
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Aladin
Member
Quality of Game = ( Coefficient of Leadership * Budget of Game / Scale of Game ) + Margin of error
1. Margin of error is due to timing of game release like having a unique story, market conditions etc.
2. Gameplay mechanics innovation is slow, it also comes under margin of error
3. IMO Halo does not have blockbuster budget, Xbox's first party always had meagre resources compared to sony's first party.
4. Halo Infinite suffers from having to scale up from an old engine and being cross gen.
5. Leadership, so many opinions. I think they are fatigued by all the 4 things above.
1. Margin of error is due to timing of game release like having a unique story, market conditions etc.
2. Gameplay mechanics innovation is slow, it also comes under margin of error
3. IMO Halo does not have blockbuster budget, Xbox's first party always had meagre resources compared to sony's first party.
4. Halo Infinite suffers from having to scale up from an old engine and being cross gen.
5. Leadership, so many opinions. I think they are fatigued by all the 4 things above.
Yselacrey00
Banned
I'm pretty sure this game is not coming next year. Remember, this is not just about the graphics, they had to hire that person who developed Halo's story, so that tells us the game is flawed in fundamental levels.
Balducci30
Member
Fundamental levels like story? I feel like that’s a pretty easy thing to cut together and make work pretty quickly. But I come from a film background where it doesn’t take a year to completely restructure a story. Also is he coming in to fix the story?
Either way, the showing was disappointing but the way people have turned it into this absolute train wreck has been pretty dumb. It looks fine, graphically, just not near the level I would’ve expected. It looks mediocre - which honestly for me is fine if the gameplay is good. And what I saw of the gameplay in there didn’t look bad at all - love the return to open ended levels. Grappling hook mechanic seems good. It looks fun to play with friends and that’s all I really give a fuck about or expect from this game at this point. Don’t think a year or two will change that part drastically. And we all gotta remember OG Halo had a terrible E3 showing and turned that around real quick.
JimiNutz
Banned
One thing I desperately hope they fix is the static environments and foliage.
Trees should away in the wind, leaves should blow around, grass should move when you pass through it.
The Halo ring looked completely lifeless and fake in the original footage. It literally looked exactly like the ring from CE.
Look at something like the environment in Ghost of Tsushima which feels like an environment filled with life or even Breath of the Wild.
Trees should away in the wind, leaves should blow around, grass should move when you pass through it.
The Halo ring looked completely lifeless and fake in the original footage. It literally looked exactly like the ring from CE.
Look at something like the environment in Ghost of Tsushima which feels like an environment filled with life or even Breath of the Wild.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
Halo Infinite is fine for what is was originally meant to be; an Xbox One game.
But it was pushed to be the showcase for Xbox Series X, and it was never meant to take on that role. It worked for BotW, but that was because WiiU lowed expectations so much, and BotW is still a very good game made by Nintendo.
I genuinely wonder if Xbox leaders really didn't know how bad Infinite looked, or that they were so out of touch with the community expectations that they themselves hyped that they didn't know they missed the mark?
All this stem from the first promo 2019 trailer. The entirely faked CGI Halo Infinite that contained no assets usable in the actual game, and was in fact outsourced to other people outside Microsoft. If they had made their own trailer, they would at least know what graphic target to aim for.
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MastaKiiLA
Member
That might go to Godfall or maybe Falconeer.
Halo was the first next-gen gameplay shown for the XSX. Its problem is related more to the XSX dev kits than 343i, IMO. I still don't know why it gets bashed when the team was probably forced to show it, regardless of its readiness. They did a good enough job cobbling together a demo that wasn't rife with bugs and constantly crashing, considering all the other teams settled for CG or the PC versions. That plus the pandemic meant they were working at a strong disadvantage. The demo should never have been shown. It wasn't ready yet. I blame the suits.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
Still, the 2019 trailer looked too good, and people expected that to be in the final game.
Look at it another way; Square Enix released their FFXVI trailer with actual, genuine rough game footage rather than a flashy CGI trailer like they used to do. Why? Because they finally realised it is important to control expectations.
If what you are making is NOT the best thing since sliced bread, then don't pretend otherwise.
the_master
Member
Exactly, the 2018 and 2019 trailers where too good.
The 2018 one especially. That ended with a wonderfull shot of the warthog riding on the ring. That was supposed to be in game... That should be in game, dammit! The colors, art direction, quality and environment where perfect.
The 2018 one especially. That ended with a wonderfull shot of the warthog riding on the ring. That was supposed to be in game... That should be in game, dammit! The colors, art direction, quality and environment where perfect.
CrysisFreak
Banned
I guess it was all lies.
Maybe they got some tips from Todd Howard? Big mistake.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
It's worse than lies; they hired a third party studio to make a Halo video. it was never a game, it might as well be the same as that standalone FFXV CGI movie. The fact that Xbox claimed that "it was all in-game" back then, is just another lie to throw on the pyre. At this post you had to assume everything Xbox said to be a lie until proven otherwise.
Halo is Back
Member
Anyone else remember when MS said they would release some MP footage "real soon"? I guess with the game being delayed until next year we wont see that huh?
Man if that is true, then they must of had clear intentions to release the game this year but I think the blow back was so intense they realized they fucked up. Now with the news of a Bungie OG back at the helm it really makes you wonder how screwed up this game really is. It took them so long just to finally release gameplay I think this game has been through multiple revisions.
Man if that is true, then they must of had clear intentions to release the game this year but I think the blow back was so intense they realized they fucked up. Now with the news of a Bungie OG back at the helm it really makes you wonder how screwed up this game really is. It took them so long just to finally release gameplay I think this game has been through multiple revisions.
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Halo is Back
Member
They never claimed it was "all in game". The text in the trailer said it was "in-engine" footage. I told everyone that was not how the game was going to look long ago.
Andodalf
Banned
Their marketing has a heavy Halo focus despite the game being delayed, they clearly wanted it at launch.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Bet you we get another look at The Game Awards on December 10th.
Halo is Back
Member
Hopefully
Explosive Zombie
Banned
People keep saying this but there's no proof of that anywhere. They've never actually said it's 60FPS on the Xbox One. When you look it up on their official site they claim the Series X version has bonuses including 60FPS, lol.
Dick Jones
Gold Member
I thought it was only multiplayer that was mentioned to run 60fps on current gen.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
Ghost of Tsushima is more next gen for sure.
ruvikx
Banned
Halo 5 is 60 fps on the Xbox One ergo anything less for Infinite would be surprising.
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
They have said it in interviews(even Phil) that it will be 60 fps. I am talking about the original 2018 announcement when no Scarlett version was announced.
Yselacrey00
Banned
Exactly this. I actually thought we were looking at footage of Halo CE, seriously.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
Seems building a new engine and a game at the same time was a pretty piss poor idea. Compared to engines such as Unreal you have to wonder where is the engine innovation from 343's Slipspace engine? I'd actually be very happy and comforted if 343 showed off reasons why Slipspace is going to push Halo Infinite on PC and Series X beyond what other engines could have offered. If they had some ViDocs about the engine itself and the challenges of old Halo engines to birthing new in game results we would actually understand why things are delayed or waiting for polish etc.
Honestly if you're building an engine you're looking for at least 4-5 years out of it, if not iteratively speaking 5-10 years. So why didn't they push the limits with Halo Infinite in terms of PC release? Xbox and 343 have known for years about PC support, prior to the Series X too I'd imagine. How are they not equipped as a studio and developing their in-house engine? Honestly when they show off Infinite again it really needs to push the PC limits too, not just the Series X. I think I find this a very mixed message from Xbox. The Gamepass push is all about play anywhere but 343's engine appears firmly stuck in console land, as does Infinite. Why would they not show off a beast of a PC gaming, it's totally correct marketing to show the most impressive version. I guess they want to push more consoles after all?
Honestly if you're building an engine you're looking for at least 4-5 years out of it, if not iteratively speaking 5-10 years. So why didn't they push the limits with Halo Infinite in terms of PC release? Xbox and 343 have known for years about PC support, prior to the Series X too I'd imagine. How are they not equipped as a studio and developing their in-house engine? Honestly when they show off Infinite again it really needs to push the PC limits too, not just the Series X. I think I find this a very mixed message from Xbox. The Gamepass push is all about play anywhere but 343's engine appears firmly stuck in console land, as does Infinite. Why would they not show off a beast of a PC gaming, it's totally correct marketing to show the most impressive version. I guess they want to push more consoles after all?
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
Since MCC reveal they have always taunted 60fps halo experience. Its safe to say Infinite will also be 60fps across the board. Gameplay is king for FPS
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ResilientBanana
Member
H2A looks better.
SafeOrAlone
Banned
I'm very curious to see how they attempt to turn this around.
I was out of the loop and just recently realized this was always intended to run on current gen systems. It feels like it has been touted as a next gen game. I understand the line between generations has never been blurrier on consoles, but still, it really feels like an uphill battle.
I was out of the loop and just recently realized this was always intended to run on current gen systems. It feels like it has been touted as a next gen game. I understand the line between generations has never been blurrier on consoles, but still, it really feels like an uphill battle.
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
DeltaPolarBear
Member
"The engine is a massive compromise" just sounds like "cross gen" to me. As in, it needs to run on a Xbox One and that is the end of it. And no matter how many people tried to pretend you can scale graphics infinitely and to build games on the strongest machine and cut back from there, this is not how it was done.
the_master
Member
It is not necessarily the engine what would limit the game because it runs in an older generation. It would be more about the game design, about how big, how many ennemies, how many loading sections, how many interactions, etc...
Porting an engine to a next gen now a days, should not be limiting.
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DeltaPolarBear
Member
Tell that to Bethesda.
Slings and Arrows
Banned
"rendered in engine"
Does "rendered" mean that this wasn't a 'playable' trailer? Cause if so...
Does "rendered" mean that this wasn't a 'playable' trailer? Cause if so...
TBiddy
Member
"rendered in engine"
Does "rendered" mean that this wasn't a 'playable' trailer? Cause if so...
He's talking about the trailer, not the gameplay snippet. Come on.
This, to be exact:
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KnightStorm
Neo Member
Imagine being in the meeting room with the execs raging with a picture of craig being part of a slideshow. LOL.
Slings and Arrows
Banned
Then it's poorly worded. He talks about the 2018 trailer, then talks about the game being put together and the engine being a compromise and finishes it off with "the engine is now beefier"
oldergamer
Member
I dont think it had anything to do with cross gen. They switched from using the unreal engine early on and took a step back to use the slipstream engine that lacked "beef". I think that is what was meant by a compromise.
People need to drop the narrative that you cant have really good looking games (visuals seems to be how people consider a game as next gen, not gameplay unfortunately. example being demon souls) simply due to cross gen. Perhaps, you were fooled by a bunch of sony titles where they made this a thing.
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oldergamer
Member
Also, No shock that they would feel pressure to release. Its been 5 years, they should have been in a better spot to release then getting under way in 2018. That is on the people leading development.
No publisher would have been happy about craig. Except they did a good job not making that show externally and joined in on the joke.
No publisher would have been happy about craig. Except they did a good job not making that show externally and joined in on the joke.