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[Elios83]

I feel bad for John a bit. I don't think he's "biased" at all and he does great work, but whoever was working with him that time ...

Let's just say when they were talking about the Xbox doing better in the 60fps RT mode (which it clearly did), they pretty much just stated it. When the PS5 was winning in the 120 fps mode, the guy is making comments like "There is no clear reason why this would be the case", and pretty much downplaying the differences in that mode.

He didn't do the same for the 60fpsRT comparison. And that's where claims of bias keep on creeping in. It's such a weird way to approach things. Just say what the numbers are. Don't hem and haw for "reasons" when one side, and only one particular side, is losing.

Then you had John who was obviously trying to be fair and talk about how great they both were, almost trying to downplay his co-workers comments to be more even handed.

Maybe I was misreading it, but I just don't give a about the performance differences between platforms (in terms of wanting one to be better) and to me the difference in commentary from the other guy felt like it was slapping me in the face.

John is by far the best thing going at DF IMO. I hope he doesn't let the negativity burn him out.

Yep the other guy was clearly looking to oversell the brief moments where the XSX had the edge while John tried to put him down to earth LOL.

Btw XSX has not total visual parity with PS5 in 120Hz mode, there's obviously downgraded smoke effects on XSX.

 

[Greggy]

I feel bad for John a bit. I don't think he's "biased" at all and he does great work, but whoever was working with him that time ...

Let's just say when they were talking about the Xbox doing better in the 60fps RT mode (which it clearly did), they pretty much just stated it. When the PS5 was winning in the 120 fps mode, the guy is making comments like "There is no clear reason why this would be the case", and pretty much downplaying the differences in that mode.

He didn't do the same for the 60fpsRT comparison. And that's where claims of bias keep on creeping in. It's such a weird way to approach things. Just say what the numbers are. Don't hem and haw for "reasons" when one side, and only one particular side, is losing.

Then you had John who was obviously trying to be fair and talk about how great they both were, almost trying to downplay his co-workers comments to be more even handed.

Maybe I was misreading it, but I just don't give a about the performance differences between platforms (in terms of wanting one to be better) and to me the difference in commentary from the other guy felt like it was slapping me in the face.

John is by far the best thing going at DF IMO. I hope he doesn't let the negativity burn him out.

Those people are technically minded and they know that more GPU cores and a faster CPU means better performance. They've seen it countless of times in the hardware reviews they've done and its actually how graphic chips manufacturers increment their products. With core units and processor frequency. So they have a rational expectation of which hardware should perform better. If they lied that one platform was performing better that would be foul but I don't blame them for wondering why the higher specced platform isn't clearly outperforming the other. They're not just a frame rate monitor. Their job is also to provide context.

 

[assurdum]

Both consoles are good. Xbox holds a constant 60fps with ray-tracing enabled while PS5 drops to 40, and on 120 fps mode PS5 holds closer to 120 while Xbox is closer to 100-110. In either case the drops in both consoles only happens in select scenes and most of the time they reach their target framerate, and that's with visual and resolution parity. It's basically a tie and that's good.

I don't think the drops in raytracing mode on ps5 are exactly "regular". It seems something cause bottlenecks in the GPU in this mode on ps5. I noticed when GPU is more involved seems stuck in some situations.

 

[MasterCornholio]

When the next gen RT came knocking the small GPU got found out, knew it.

Do the drops last long? I don't have access to a good connection now.

 

[Chukhopops]

Might sound like a nitpick but would a human even notice a drop from 120fps to 110fps? We are talking about a 0.75 ms (not even a full millisecond) frame time difference.

 

[Patrick S.]

Ghosts in general was kind of underrated. Better than some of these recents.

Yes, definitely. I never undestood why people consider it the worst COD game. Maybe the multiplayer was broken? I wouldn't know, because I haven't really played the multiplayer content of it.

 

[Hendrick's]

And in the same reversal, all of a sudden Xbox fans don’t care about 120 and it’s all about that 60 yo!

Fun times!

Very few people in either camp truly give a shit about 120hz. And even fewer actually own a 120hz TV. I'm just happy we are getting mostly 60fps games now.

 

[Jigsaah]

I've been honest about all the games DF has avalyzed so far. This is a win for Xbox. Sony won Valhalla. I don't have 120hz display so if I were to buy this, It would be on the X.

Especially because I can't find a PS5.

 

[Mr Moose]

They should've shown the fps readings for longer.

 

[MrFunSocks]

Folks seem to talk about there TV's for VRR... Am I the only one that has for a long time, used a monitor for console gaming?
I seem to enjoy it more than what a TV ever did.

I don't play my game consoles at a desk with a little monitor. Big TV with surround sound is much better.

Maybe I'll just put you on ignore instead.

Since I can't see the post you replied to, it's a good idea to put them on ignore.

 

[papeipa]

If you dont have a VRR TV the PS5 is better for 120hz gameplay.

There is no TV or monitor that supports 120hz without vrr, they go together.

 

[M1chl]

Biggest franchise played best on world's most powerfull console

Sorry

 

[DeadOblivion78]

Vgtech analysis:

There was an issue on PS5 where the frame rate could randomly drop below 60fps during scenes that it previously ran at a solid 60fps. This issue wasn't encountered on Xbox Series X.

Digital Foundry:

Series X is more stable in RT because it's more powerful and lead to a better experience


But impartial and genuine.

This is why you use multiple sources and not just rely on one source. Can't trust one group when another says something different.

 

[Exanthus]

And in the same reversal, all of a sudden Xbox fans don’t care about 120 and it’s all about that 60 yo!

Fun times!

Personally, I am for 60fps. I don't have anything that supports 120fps at the moment. As an owner of the XsX I'm happy with this.
But I'm not on board with X hardware being better than X. Eventually I'll have a PS5 to try out those nice looking exclusives.

 

[MCplayer]

I feel bad for John a bit. I don't think he's "biased" at all and he does great work, but whoever was working with him that time ...

Let's just say when they were talking about the Xbox doing better in the 60fps RT mode (which it clearly did), they pretty much just stated it. When the PS5 was winning in the 120 fps mode, the guy is making comments like "There is no clear reason why this would be the case", and pretty much downplaying the differences in that mode.

He didn't do the same for the 60fpsRT comparison. And that's where claims of bias keep on creeping in. It's such a weird way to approach things. Just say what the numbers are. Don't hem and haw for "reasons" when one side, and only one particular side, is losing.

Then you had John who was obviously trying to be fair and talk about how great they both were, almost trying to downplay his co-workers comments to be more even handed.

Maybe I was misreading it, but I just don't give a about the performance differences between platforms (in terms of wanting one to be better) and to me the difference in commentary from the other guy felt like it was slapping me in the face.

John is by far the best thing going at DF IMO. I hope he doesn't let the negativity burn him out.

You must be blind if you havent noticed that john is playstation 5 biased at least a bit, go check the other comparisons and noticed how he talks to richard, richard has john under his radar, I noticed that and its hilarious hearing them talking lol

 

[TheAmazingSpiderMan]

The XSX raw power stretching its legs here at 4k RT. Expect more of this.

What happened? Tools have matured overnight?

 

[AllBizness]

They should've shown the fps readings for longer.

Someone on Era said the drops in the two scenes on PS5vare random and dont happen all the time. VG tech showed no drops on PS5 in those same scenes apparently.

 

[LeftThumbstick]

Did DF just describe a two second frame rate drop in a non interactive set piece cutscene as "chugging"?

And then go on to say the frame rate differences in the 120 FPS mode are not a big deal?

And they wonder why they cop flack

They said that because it's gameplay, calling a set piece doesn't change it from gameplay, you're still controlling a character. About those 120fps drops too, they both start chugging at the exact same scene with the XSX dropping maybe 10 frames lower for a split second, also that VRR negates that difference and actually makes it smoother than the PS5 dips. Controlling that RC car is interactive, not non-interactive.

An you do realize the PS5 on dropped frames in 1 gameplay scene with RT turned on?

More than one, watch again.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Very few people in either camp truly give a shit about 120hz. And even fewer actually own a 120hz TV. I'm just happy we are getting mostly 60fps games now.

Oh I agree, it’s lame warrior fodder. I have a 120hz panel and still find 60hz an optimal experience. Don’t care about wasted overhead resources on native 4K or 120Hz, personally.

 

[Valued Gamer]

In the 120 mode in a couple of games, there seems to be a hitch where the XSX version drops down for no apparent reason. Saw it in DMCV as well. It doesn't appear to be hardware related, so it must be something in the API or tools.
New console, new tools = teething problems.
Interesting to see how it pans out.

 

[JLB]

Jesus, the DF guys having to support trollboys all over the place, one way or the other. Not a healthy job for sure.

 

[Jigsaah]

Biggest franchise played best on world's most powerfull console

Sorry

My dumbass tried to click that "link"

 

[ethomaz]

Summary from nin95.

• RT shadows only (not reflections or lighting)
• RT mode on PS5/XSX up to 4K, drops to 1800p
• 120hz mode on PS5/XSX around 1200p on average with drops to 1080p
• PS5/XSX mostly same settings
• No RT on Series S, but resolution is 1440p with drops to 1200p
• Series S also has cutbacks in detail and motion blur
• 120fps mode mostly consistent frame rate on both, with slightly higher drops on XSX, especially in set pieces
• 60fps RT mode mostly consistent frame rate on both, but select set piece moments have momentary drops on PS5
• Series S mode mostly consistent frame rate with only minor dips
• DualSense functionality is really cool, ended up missing it on XSX
• Great looking game overall

 

[captainraincoat]

If people are pinning their assumptions on launch hardware with launch patches then it’s gonna be a very long generation for some

 

[funking giblet]

Good on the Series X showing it's 42% CU advantage!

 

[Exanthus]

I don't play my game consoles at a desk with a little monitor. Big TV with surround sound is much better.

Fair enough . When I was younger my Dad had the set up on the TV with the surround sound. So I see the appeal. Unfortunately I don't have that luxury

 

[Handy Fake]

Someone on Era said the drops in the two scenes on PS5vare random and dont happen all the time. VG tech showed no drops on PS5 in those same scenes apparently.

It's a funny one. If it's not accurately repeatable I'd bet, as I said, it'll be a network bug or some background process glitching.

 

[vpance]

And you do realize the PS5 dropped in frames in 1 gameplay scene with RT turned on? Also more graphical effects such as gun smoke appear on PS5 at 120hz but not the X.

The gun smoke is also missing on X in RT mode.

 

[Raploz]

I don't think the drops in raytracing mode on ps5 are exactly "regular". It seems something cause bottlenecks in the GPU in this mode on ps5.

I believe what's causing the GPU bottleneck is ray-tracing, however we will need to see more games with ray-tracing to know for sure if it's something specific to this game or if PS5's ray-tracing capabilities are worse than Xbox's.

It makes sense for PS5 to be slower in ray-tracing since it has less CUs, but maybe the clockspeeds make up for the lower amount of CUs. We can't know for sure for now. Only time will tell.

 

[Stilton Disco]

Another good showing from both systems! Hopefully the 60fps mode can be patched to drop effects or resolution bit on the PS5 and the same at 120fps on XSX.

Overall, a slight win for MS here as 60fps will be the more used mode, but once again, we're pretty much seeing parity, which is nice.

 

[Mr Moose]

The real issue DF needs to address is... What happened to #BirdGate?

 

[M1chl]

My dumbass tried to click that "link"

Holly shit it worked : D

 

[Yoboman]

They said that because it's gameplay, calling a set piece doesn't change it from gameplay, you're still controlling a character. About those 120fps drops too, they both start chugging at the exact same scene with the XSX dropping maybe 10 frames lower for a split second, also that VRR negates that difference and actually makes it smoother than the PS5 dips. Controlling that RC car is interactive, not non-interactive.



More than one, watch again.

The frame drops were after the RC car moment where it switches back to a non interactive set piece explosion. And its from the scene VGTech pointed out was flawless before a patch, so I expect some issue crept in there that will be remedied

The most intensive scenes in the game 120hz and Xbox is struggling to keep up with PS5 yet again. MS looking foolish now

 

[assurdum]

This is why you use multiple sources and not just rely on one source. Can't trust one group when another says something different.

But frankly it's annoying how superficial is DF when Sony hardware has perfomance issue. They are so worried to give the lead to the Xbox to ignore whatever implication of different performance in the other hardware. It's really, really annoying. COD typical runs better on playstation platform, this isn't bizzarre it's not the case this time? DMC used raytracing too but it hasn't such massive drops on ps5. I understood are not frequent but this definitely something if wrong. You can scale back details or resolution to improve performance.

 

[Esppiral]

So just going to ignore how the PS5 drops to near 30 fps in raytracing, 60fps mode but the XsX has zero issues?

Yes, that's how it works, sorry man.

 

[MrFunSocks]

My bet is that when just the CPU or the GPU are 100% stressed, PS5 wins due to smartshift, but when the game requires both to give all they got, SEX may punch above.

Smart Shift only goes 1 way. The CPU can give power to the GPU, but not the reverse. If the CPU is stressed the GPU can't help it out.

 

[LostDonkey]

What's going on with PS5 in RT mode.

Biggest difference between the systems yet I've seen in a comparison, Xbox steams on through.

 

[ethomaz]

It weird that DF praising Xbox when the framerate is better (“expected, Xbox more powerful”) but downplay PS5 when the same happened (“PS5 has the lead again, that is not possible”)... the contrast is pretty clear.

I guess they are in Denial phase yet.

 

[Dr Bass]

Those people are technically minded and they know that more GPU cores and a faster CPU means better performance. They've seen it countless of times in the hardware reviews they've done and its actually how graphic chips manufacturers increment their products. With core units and processor frequency. So they have a rational expectation of which hardware should perform better. If they lied that one platform was performing better that would be foul but I don't blame them for wondering why the higher specced platform isn't clearly outperforming the other. They're not just a frame rate monitor. Their job is also to provide context.

I'm a software engineer with 20 years experience and a director at my work. I love the work they do but they are hardly "technically minded" in a true sense. I don't mean that with disrespect, but they are more akin to movie critics than engineers. Again, no disrespect. But doing the work is two orders of magnitude more difficult than knowing buzzwords and measuring frame rates.

That sounded way worse than I meant it.

 

[Jigsaah]

I'll take 4k dynamic RT solid 60fps over 1080p - 1200p no raytracing at 120fps on console any day of the week.

Now if this was my PC, somebody's getting a phone call and a nasty letter.

 

[Handy Fake]

The frame drops were after the RC car moment where it switches back to a non interactive set piece explosion. And its from the scene VGTech pointed out was flawless before a patch, so I expect some issue crept in there that will be remedied

The most intensive scenes in the game 120hz and Xbox is struggling to keep up with PS5 yet again. MS looking foolish now

That's interesting. It seems a really strange one.

 

[AGeraltFellFromRoof]

This is a win for Series X. As long as PS5 does not support 1440p and VRR, these type of results will favour Xbox as 10 percent FPS drop will easily be ironed out by Freesync on Xbox whereas you will have to feel every hiccup on PS5. Additionally, in order to play at 120, you will have to set your console resolution to 1080p on PS5 if you don't have a HDMI 2.1 TV, whereas you can play at 1440p@120 on Xbox.

Not even mentioning Series X does a significantly better job at 4K@60wRT. I don't understand how some people can be so ignorant and say COD is better on PS5, it is ridiculous.

 

[Captain Hero]

 

[assurdum]

This is a win for Series X. As long as PS5 does not support 1440p and VRR, these type of results will favour Xbox as 10 percent FPS drop will easily be ironed out by Freesync on Xbox whereas you will have to feel every hiccup on PS5. Additionally, in order to play at 120, you will have to set your console resolution to 1080p on PS5 if you don't have a HDMI 2.1 TV, whereas you can play at 1440p@120 on Xbox.

Not even mentioning Series X does a significantly better job at 4K@60wRT. I don't understand how some people can be so ignorant and say COD is better on PS5, it is ridiculous.

Sponsored by Microsoft.

 

[Riky]

The frame drops were after the RC car moment where it switches back to a non interactive set piece explosion. And its from the scene VGTech pointed out was flawless before a patch, so I expect some issue crept in there that will be remedied

The most intensive scenes in the game 120hz and Xbox is struggling to keep up with PS5 yet again. MS looking foolish now

Nope,

Ray tracing tanked the PS5 in several scenes.

 

[intbal]

Don't really want to read all six pages, so forgive me if somebody made this complaint already.

Series S should really be capped at 1080p in all its games.

It's the "budget" model. Budget buyers typically don't seek out 1440p PC monitors to pair up with their consoles. These people, on average, are much more likely to have decent 1080p TVs. And Series S would clearly be a monster at 1080p for most games.

 

[assurdum]

What's going on with PS5 in RT mode.

Biggest difference between the systems yet I've seen in a comparison, Xbox steams on through.

You missed the 120 fps mode of Dirt 5 on series X if you think it's the biggest difference you see between the 2 platform.

 

[cebri.one]

RT shadows I believe is probably one things were the additional CUs is going to matter. RT reflections do put a lot of more pressure on the caches so it's going to be an interesting gen. Very close, the 20% + VRS + Mesh shaders + Jesus Christ difference in performance promised still nowhere to be seen.

Nope,

Ray tracing tanked the PS5 in several scenes.

Nope. DF mentioned it was on a couple of scenes.

 

[jose4gg]

Nope,

Ray tracing tanked the PS5 in several scenes.

VGtech said these scenes run without these issues before a patch, it's very interesting that this screen is all in-game cutscenes, meaning, "the user has control" but in reality, you always move the exact same way no matter what you try to do.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Nope,

Ray tracing tanked the PS5 in several scenes.

Shouldn't the drops be more severe given the differences between the two systems?