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[Aroll]

Just because it's not the "best" comparison, doesn't mean it's not a VALID comparison.

The problem is that multiplatform games by their very nature are never targeting ANY platform. Even when they move to "next-gen only" they will have to target tons of PC configurations. Many third parties have even moved on to supporting higher end PCs as their target and then just ensure that the last-gen consoles are sufficiently playable. I would surmise that next-gen versions of multiplats are based more on the PC versions than their last-gen predecessors.

So the best we have to go by is the results that speak for themselves, and so far the PS5 has shown to have better performance. That could change of course IF there are some dev or driver issues...or it may not. But that doesn't make this early assessment any less valid. In fact, it's all we have to go by at the moment and thus far Sony looks to have created a very competitive and compelling piece of hardware in spite of the whole drama surrounding teraflops.

I am not saying the comparisons aren't valid, I am saying using these sorts of comparisons SOLEY is not fair to either platform. The best comparisons are ones we can't even make right now. I do think the argument over API crap is a bit... reaching. Not that it isn't true but... how would he even know? PS5 right now has a slight edge in performance metrics. But does that mean it's more powerful or does it mean it's simply better optimized on the more popular platform?

See power arguments are basically non-starters in the first place. In other words, which system is "more powerful" is basically not really even a debate. It's just based on hardware performance metrics. It just so happens, that being more powerful doesn't always translate to better game performance. It's largely on the developers and how they make use of the tech, than it is the capabilities of the tech itself. Take some games that hit 120 fps on PS5 but only 60 on the series X - it's got nothing to do with the fact the series X CAN'T do it. It absolutely can. They just never really bothered to optimize for it.

Also, if anyone here thinks these console games that are on PC are usually made for PC first...

hahahahahaha. As a dev myself with multiple dev friends in the AAA industry... let's just say PC is often considered LAST. And PC gamers consistently get frustrated by it, because they always feel like their games are being held back by home consoles. Which is essentially a very true assumption. The games are made for the platform that they think will be the one it sells most on. PC is almost never that platform. Unless you are an indie studio.

AAA targets home console first, because that's where a majority of sales are. And if you want more insight, last-gen, PS4 was the target platforms for "first versions" of the games. It then got ported to everything else. As a dev, its far more likely right now PS5 is being targetted by devs more, because they suppose sales of their games will be higher. It is just the focus of the optimizations. They are then tossing that same version at Xbox, seeing it doesn't work right, so then being... not lazy... but just sort of quick patching it in to release the update.

This stuff is much more cobbled together than most realize. And there absolutely are platform specific focuses based on sales data in the dev environment. It's rare to see a AAA game focus on PC first, like Cyberpunk appears to have done.

 

[Aceofspades]

Looking at Flight Simulator on Series X they can run with the original marketing, looks like the first real next gen game to me.

I know it can happen to you when your last good game released on the 360 in 2009

 

[sircaw]

It's crazy, after a year of their fud and bullshit being discredited, we are back to square one it seems with the usual suspects starting up more fud as usual.

The amount of people that pretend to be something that they are not and have all this inside knowledge is just bullshit the majority of the time.

It is tiring.

 

[Bittermich]

I know it can happen to you when your last good game released on the 360 in 2009

and this game is the only true nextgen game so far, no other game on any platform comes even close to these kind of graphics. Crazy right?

 

[v_iHuGi]

VFXVeteran

1 - You tell people differences are bigger than expected in March / April.
2 - You tell Gaf to wait for the launch & how Ps5 is struggling.
3 - Launch arrives, SX is struggling even THOUGH YOU CLAIMED IT WAS PS5 Struggling.
4 - You tell people to wait for Tools because they weren't ready.

If tools aren't ready now how were they ready in March April when Series X was supposedly crushing Ps5?

Either you're a liar which is evident or something changed on SX HW wise which at that point there's a 0.01% chance.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Dude, stop trying to figure out my "fake" contacts and let it go. This really is a fruitless conversation.

For one year you told us that your source told u the gap is big and never once u mentioned the tools . Meaning that you and your source are fake. If he was real like the crytek guy he would talk about non mature tools and you would report that here but no u talked about staggering difference till 4 weeks ago.

U r a fraud who can't accept being wrong .

I m happy the sony that u hate so much is destroying ur joke of a reputation and exposing you as the fraud u really r .but we already knew u r fake since the day u got banned on the other site for talking too much and not being able to back it up .

 

[Three]

OK. Moving on....

So how comes your insider friends didn't tell you that the XSX "Api and drivers" were busted and we're only finding this out now?

Because it's a convenient excuse now.

 

[Agnostic2020]

So how comes your insider friends didn't tell you that the XSX "Api and drivers" were busted and we're only finding this out now?

Because it's a convenient excuse now.

Exactly . What a joke. He was hoping we forget

 

[rnlval]

Keep in mind I am not disputing any claims the PS5 is faster. I am merely saying that as a software developer, I don't see enough evidence to determine this.

It's like saying oh look we have NBA 2K21 with next-gen update and it favors PS5! WOO! Okay, so are we saying a true next-gen 2K game not made for old gen can't be better? That we have reached the pinnacle of these systems cross gen performance already? What happens if say, NBA 2K23 runs better on series x?

Better yet? Why does it better. Who cares...

Everyone should be pretty pleased with whatever platforms they own.

Unlike modern PC GPUs, XSX GPU can't trade unused compute resources for increase clock speed (boost mode). Boost mode clock speed has higher importance for wider shader array GPUs.

 

[Riky]

So I understand looking into this why some people are roasting a couple posters here. There was some clear... either misreporting or misrepresentation.

But I need to come in and be a voice of reason? Maybe?

Technically, there is not a single, AAA, multiplatform game on the market that is exclusive to next-gen. This is wildly important, because that means none of the current cross platform "next-gen" games are even truly next-gen. They are just patched PS4/Xbox One games. This is even true with Cyberpunk, which is why when DF came out and noted that for some reason the Xbox Series S "version" of the game runs better than the PS5 "version", people raged because "there isn't a PS5 version" - which sort of skirted around the point that Cyberpunk runs better on the Series S than it does the PS5, PS4, and PS4 pro. Consistently.

What does this mean? Piss all. Because the game favors the platform it was focused for. There is an official Cyberpunk Xbox One X. That means Microsoft partnered with CD Projekt Red. This likely means the lead platforms for the game were PC (obviously, given what we know today), followed by Xbox Series S/X (which explains why series S plays better than the PS5). Technically, we can argue the games were never made for those platforms, but we now know in post release interviews the games were being tested and ran on this hardware first, with patches and other fixes coming to PS4/Xbox One later. So clearly, they were focusing on next-gen, even if the "next-gen" update doesn't exist yet.

More over, any performance differences one way or the other that favor a specific console mean absolutely nothing right now. Remember when for years, Xbox 360 games ran and looked better than PS3 multiplatform games, even though PS3 was more powerful? That changed and flipped by the end of the generation. Right now, PS5 seems easier to convert older games to. That's really all we can determine right now. The way it boosts clocks and this and that is showing a present advantage to PS5 in general.

But again, how do we measure this? With last gen updated game performance. Which like Cyberpunk.... means piss all. We have yet to see 1, just 1, AAA multiplatform game that was made from the ground up for next-gen only. Hasn't happened. May not happen next year either. Until it does, we honestly do not know how it plays out.

On paper raw GPU output favors Xbox. We know this as a fact. We also know certain metrics on paper favor PS5. We also know that if we want to REALLY get down to brass tax... both systems are at their core... using the exact same technology beyond a controller change in the SSD on PS5. They are choosing to use this technology in slightly different ways - like PS5 choosing higher boost clocks but lower cuda cores, but the boost clocks are unsustainable over long periods of time. Meanwhile, Xbox chose a consistent clock with a higher overall output when utilized correctly.

Set aside which console you prefer. Which company you prefer. Every single comment on this thread can seemingly be boiled down to... are you a sony fan or a microsoft fan?

Very little fact based discussion. Fact remains, we don't know which console will consistently come out on top with next-gen (or shall we say current-gen) multiplatform AAA games because frankly... we don't have any. Both systems are, fundamentally, using the same core technology just in slightly different ways. To laugh and say "xbox sucks" is ironic when PS5 is using the same base tech. To say "sony sucks" is ironic too, when Xbox is using the same base tech. This is basically a giant dick measuring contest, except they both came from the same mother and one is slight longer, while the other is slightly girthier. There is no actual "winner" right now, and I am betting it will vary wildly game to game which system performs better based on which system was the primary focus of the console version. Because that's how game development works. It's made for ONE system, then ported to the rest. The primary system it's made for typically has the better performance.

So can we stop trying to measure ego's and actually look at the facts? On paper, xbox has better GPU performance. Cool. But we don't even know how this is going to translate. We have no information other than last gen crap.

Probably the best post since launch of the consoles. No reasonable person could dispute any of this.

 

[Heisenberg007]

and this game is the only true nextgen game so far, no other game on any platform comes even close to these kind of graphics. Crazy right?

Plenty of games with better graphics, man. It is very pretty, but definitely not the best.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Exactly . What a joke. He was hoping we forget

Yeah. I've noticed that the guy will just become all rude and high on his horse when confronted. That's not a good sign and doesn't instill much confidence in his "credibility".

 

[Agnostic2020]

Yeah. I've noticed that the guy will just become all rude and high on his horse when confronted. That's not a good sign and doesn't instill much confidence in his "credibility".

Yea he has been called out many times on his fake info . Not just this ,many many instances. He was perma banned on era for doing the same and not being able to back it up.

 

[Heisenberg007]

So how comes your insider friends didn't tell you that the XSX "Api and drivers" were busted and we're only finding this out now?

Because it's a convenient excuse now.

lol yes. Also, to be fair though, NO ONE brought it up before launch, because really there isn't much to it. It's just an excuse.

Before launch, the narrative was "MS has surprised Sony. Sony is rushing to launch the PS5. Sony wasn't even prepared. Sony isn't showing anything because they weren't even preparing to launch in 2020."

Now after launch, it is a very different story that "Sony was just ahead in software. XSX is still the most powerful console." lol.

 

[Agnostic2020]

lol yes. Also, to be fair though, NO ONE brought it up before launch, because really there isn't much to it. It's just an excuse.

Before launch, the narrative was "MS has surprised Sony. Sony is rushing to launch the PS5. Sony wasn't even prepared. Sony isn't showing anything because they weren't even preparing to launch in 2020."

Now after launch, it is a very different story that "Sony was just ahead in software. XSX is still the most powerful console." lol.

That's not true. Ali salehi of crytek manetioned the api for gdk in general is not great in his interview in March 2020. Have u read that interview ?ne mentions there are other issues with xsx but thats not related to this .

 

[Calverz]

Dude, if it was on ps5 it would look better with more stable frame rate. lololol

But its not. So the framerate is zero im afraid.

 

[Three]

But its not. So the framerate is zero im afraid.

I understand that this already released game is now coming to Xbox but nobody cares about your marketing of it in an unrelated thread.

 

[Shmunter]

We should perhaps revisit the Crytec dev thread for maybe some positivity instead. Guy was speaking unbridled truth and now it’s confirmed

 

[Clarissa]

For one year you told us that your source told u the gap is big and never once u mentioned the tools . Meaning that you and your source are fake. If he was real like the crytek guy he would talk about non mature tools and you would report that here but no u talked about staggering difference till 4 weeks ago.

U r a fraud who can't accept being wrong .

I m happy the sony that u hate so much is destroying ur joke of a reputation and exposing you as the fraud u really r .but we already knew u r fake since the day u got banned on the other site for talking too much and not being able to back it up .

I read your post in Deacon St John's voice.

 

[Heisenberg007]

That's not true. Ali salehi of crytek manetioned the api for gdk in general is not great in his interview in March 2020. Have u read that interview ?ne mentions there are other issues with xsx but thats not related to this .

True. Also, NXGamer and MLID also mentioned that the APIs weren't as good as PS5's (that was't surprising tbh because that has always been the case, and any sane person can see that GDK won't be able to compete with Sony's low-level customized APIs).

By NO ONE, I meant no Xbox fanboy, XGaffer, or Xbox Influencer who were sharing the aforementioned FUDs against PS5 and Sony.

 

[Agnostic2020]

True. Also, NXGamer and MLID also mentioned that the APIs weren't as good as PS5's (that was't surprising tbh because that has always been the case, and any sane person can see that GDK won't be able to compete with Sony's low-level customized APIs).

By NO ONE, I meant no Xbox fanboy, XGaffer, or Xbox Influencer who were sharing the aforementioned FUDs against PS5 and Sony.

Yea and they all called it fud and fake thread is now on first page you can go and read their responses . Most of them asked for permanent ban though after ps5 came put on top imagine taking that shit this seriously.

 

[SaucyJack]

You missed the bit where DF just said the Series S version of Cyberpunk is ranked better than PS5 then. It runs at a peak higher resolution and has higher NPC levels and graphical settings ☺

This isn't hard.

There is no Series S version of Cyberpunk.

There isn’t a Series X or PS5 version either.

The Series S|X is running the Xbox One X version in BC mode.

The PS5 is running the PS4 Pro version in BC mode.

Unsurprisingly the Xbox One X version > PS4 Pro version.

This tells us NOTHING about the relative capability of PS5 and Series S|X

 

[anothertech]

You missed the bit where DF just said the Series S version of Cyberpunk is ranked better than PS5 then. It runs at a peak higher resolution and has higher NPC levels and graphical settings ☺

At less than half the frame rate... without any ps5 version to speak of.

Honestly you prove their points for them.

 

[anothertech]

But its not. So the framerate is zero im afraid.

Same framerate as every series x launch exclusive...

 

[kyoji]

This isn't hard.

There is no Series S version of Cyberpunk.

There isn’t a Series X or PS5 version either.

The Series S|X is running the Xbox One X version in BC mode.

The PS5 is running the PS4 Pro version in BC mode.

Unsurprisingly the Xbox One X version > PS4 Pro version.

This tells us NOTHING about the relative capability of PS5 and Series S|X

No sense trying to reason with riky when he doesnt even make sense to himself, this the same person who says to wait for next gen only multiplats, yet uses cyberpunk running off the old gen pro models for his bullet points. This is the same guy who thought series S would push ps5 LOL. Cant take this guy seriously. I laugh at all of his posts, him and calverz ensure i get enough laughs for the day. I swear they work at Barnum & Bailey Ringling Bros.

 

[Heisenberg007]

No sense trying to reason with riky when he doesnt even make sense to himself, this the same person who says to wait for next gen only multiplats, yet uses cyberpunk running off the old gen pro models for his bullet points. This is the same guy who thought series S would push ps5 LOL. Cant take this guy seriously. I laugh at all of his posts, him and calverz ensure i get enough laughs for the day. I swear they work at Barnum & Bailey Ringling Bros.

Yeah. I'm actually content to let some of these people go on a wild victory lap because CP2077 has slightly higher graphical settings on XSX because of XOneX mode. If CP2077 next-gen version runs better on PS5, it will be even sweeter to see their meltdown. It'll be like when the first DF comparison video dropped part 2.0

 

[Riky]

Yeah. I'm actually content to let some of these people go on a wild victory lap because CP2077 has slightly higher graphical settings on XSX because of XOneX mode. If CP2077 next-gen version runs better on PS5, it will be even sweeter to see their meltdown. It'll be like when the first DF comparison video dropped part 2.0

Probably , the first DF video was DMC5 where Xbox was better in 3 out of the four modes and the average framerate was the same in the other one.

 

[sircaw]

Probably , the first DF video was DMC5 where Xbox was better in 3 out of the four modes and the average framerate was the same in the other one.

You backed the wrong Cart horse Riky.

 

[SaucyJack]

Probably , the first DF video was DMC5 where Xbox was better in 3 out of the four modes and the average framerate was the same in the other one.

Not correct. What DF actually says about DmC 5 .....

Normal Mode - visually identical, single digit frame rate advantage on Series X

High Frame Rate Mode - significant frame rate improvement on PS5

Ray Tracing Perfromance Mode - identical

Ray Tracing Quality Mode - almost identical but with possible “vanishing small” XSX advantage, but it’s hard to tell due to difficulty in matching like for like gameplay.

So your 3-1 is more reasonably 1-1 with two ties.

XSX is meant to have an 18% power advantage.

 

[danielJackson]

Yea he has been called out many times on his fake info . Not just this ,many many instances. He was perma banned on era for doing the same and not being able to back it up.

He sounds one of those "old timer" guys whom maybe have skills for one thing, and they arent wise enough to understand that being expert in one area doesnt make them experts in another which is loosely connected to it.

And then they think or act like experts, like knowing how to build 80's car engine would make then experts of programming 2020's car computers etc.

Dude just openly hates consoles, but because xbox is part of pc ecosystem, he must defend it.

It is too much to many to handle, that Playstation is the global gaming brand, and xbox isnt.

And while PC can brute force non-optimal code and output 8k/144hz, it doesnt make it best platform.

Games do.

 

[Riky]

Not correct. What DF actually says about DmC 5 .....

Normal Mode - visually identical, single digit frame rate advantage on Series X

High Frame Rate Mode - significant frame rate improvement on PS5

Ray Tracing Perfromance Mode - identical

Ray Tracing Quality Mode - almost identical but with possible “vanishing small” XSX advantage, but it’s hard to tell due to difficulty in matching like for like gameplay.

So your 3-1 is more reasonably 1-1 with two ties.

XSX is meant to have an 18% power advantage.

I'd watch the video again, they go over like for like scenes with identical resolution and effects on the Ray Tracing modes, XSX wins out in all of them comparisons.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Your tv is irrelevant when xsx renders games at lower dynamic resolution (forget about the lower average FPS)than ps5 .but that doesn't mean u can not enjoy it .enjoy it bud

It would only be irrelevant if I had a frame tearing PS5. With the XSX I have a silky smooth image, so of course I'm enjoying it, bud.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Probably the best post since launch of the consoles. No reasonable person could dispute any of this.

B-but muh cache scrubbers. Muh Cerny sauce.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

It would only be irrelevant if I had a frame tearing PS5. With the XSX I have a silky smooth image, so of course I'm enjoying it, bud.

When your crippled console needs help

 

[Heisenberg007]

B-but muh cache scrubbers. Muh Cerny sauce.

There there ...

 

[Bernd Lauert]

When your crippled console needs help

Yours does too, otherwise it wouldn't tear frames all the time.

 

[demigod]

I already went down that road.. I'm out of this thread. It's stupid to bring up shit just to have a day making fun of "VFXVeteran". As I said before, I'll never disclose any info I get from my peeps every again. So that's that.

My insider worked at a major 1st part Sony studio. He *is* an insider whether he was right/wrong/blue/green or indifferent. That will never change.



The PS5's performance was indeed between a 1080-1080Ti which was told to me over a year ago while everyone was pleading for me to be banned for such a "low end" spec. Perhaps if people stop wishing for the best piece of hardware for $300, we wouldn't be having so many arguments over hardware specs.

I don't give a shit about the 2 SKUs not being an actual PS5 Pro (although he did say that the "Pro" was the version you guys have now).

TLOU will be true so you'll have to wait long and hard for that.

In any case, I don't give a shit about this trolling me over this stuff. I already had multiple pages of arguments over this at the time those things were revealed.. I have no earthly idea why this is coming up YET AGAIN. I'm damn sure not going to spend pages talking about this shit again. That's one of the reason why so many people hate the Sony guys here on GAF. It's like you guys have nothing better to do but to bash people over the XSX. It's pathetic.

Oh man not even a day and he's already lying. You always said the PS5 was a 1080 and then you changed it to between 1080 to 1080Ti. Face it, you're a fraud.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Yours does too, otherwise it wouldn't tear frames all the time.

 

[MasterCornholio]

The one with more power.

What do you think the average consumer thinks power means?

It's not just a word with no meaning like your suggesting.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Yours does too, otherwise it wouldn't tear frames all the time.

Are u talking about ps5 or xsx aka undisputed frame tearing King . Its a rhetorical question i have seen enough to know the answer .

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Are u talking about ps5 or xsx aka undisputed frame tearing King . Its a rhetorical question i have seen enough to know the answer .

There's no frame tearing on the XSX if you have a semi-decent TV

 

[Mr Moose]

My insider worked at a major 1st part Sony studio. He *is* an insider whether he was right/wrong/blue/green or indifferent. That will never change.

How's Chris Grannell doing these days?

There's no frame tearing on the XSX if you have a semi-decent TV

You do know it's still there, right? It doesn't magically change the games code.

 

[Heisenberg007]

There's no frame tearing on the XSX if you have a semi-decent TV

So there is if you don't have a VRR TV? Got it.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

You do know it's still there, right? It doesn't magically change the games code.

No it's literally not, that's why you can't see it.

 

[mejin]

Do you know what the term "generally" means?

Xbox One did have some advantages in terms of CPU performance. There will be games that take advantage of some of the XSX strengths too, I'm sure. But the pattern we are seeing here is that for most game scenarios, PS5 simply runs better.

It is just the opposite people expected. More 7 years of suffering incoming.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

So there is if you don't have a VRR TV? Got it.

And there is on the PS5 even if you have a VRR TV. I guess there wasn't enough Cerny sauce left over to fix an actual problem after it was all spent on cache scrubbers

 

[Mr Moose]

No it's literally not, that's why you can't see it.

It is still happening though on the game and its being output to your TV like that so it literally is.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

It is still happening though on the game and its being output to your TV like that so it literally is.

You don't seem to know how VRR works. It ties refresh rate and frame rate together so that there literally can't be any frame tearing.

 

[Mr Moose]

You don't seem to know how VRR works. It ties refresh rate and frame rate together so that there literally can't be any frame tearing.

 

[Riky]

It is still happening though on the game and its being output to your TV like that so it literally is.

Frame tearing is totally illiminated, the game is still dropping the frames but tearing is the GPU output and the TV refresh being different, that doesn't happen with VRR.