Die Namek Ability
Member
We all know this, its not to highlight that but to correct misinformation
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[DF] Hitman 3 PS5 vs Xbox Series X|S Comparison
- Thread starter Tickle My Tendies
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skit_data
Member
Yes, and i know the PS5 drops to 37 in said cutscene. Series X version is clearly superior, i just wanted to help!
HoofHearted
Member
Shorter answer - this thread is rife with “misinformation” regardless of which side of the fence you sit on.
You simply can’t deduce anything from the frame rate numbers presented (so far).
Your comparison point on frame rate drops above is immediately invalid purely because the XSX is running at a higher resolution than the PS5 - of COURSE the PS5 is going to run at a higher (locked/capped) frame rate than the XSX in those few areas of the game.
The only real data point that is available is the fact that the XSX runs this game at a higher resolution and shadow detail than the PS5.
Unless IOI provides the capability in this particular game to allow an unlocked frame rate like some other games, or updates the PS5 version to the EXACT same level of rendered output as the XSX - nitpicking and arguing over the very few spots in the game with frame rate drops is like trying to nail Jell-O to a tree.
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HoofHearted
Member
XSX runs game at higher resolution and higher shadow details with some frame rate drops in one level of the game. One cutscene has a frame rate drop across all consoles.
Insanity begins (29.9+ pages) ....
you’re now caught up -
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Alex has been using cutscenes to measure performance of the GPUs for weeks now. He started with AC Valhalla then COD and now Hitman. if the GPU is struggling to render something on every console and PC GPU then as a stress test it is a valid point of comparison.
Not indicative of the final performance but thats not what that test is supposed to be anyway.
Die Namek Ability
Member
So because everyone wasnt corrected than no one should be? Thats a strange way to look at it.
Im not following your point of the XsX running higher res so it invalidates the FPS comparison. That is the exact reason a comparison and speculation that the PS5 could run at a higher res is valid. Im in no way shape or form suggesting that the PS5 would be more performant then the XsX at the same res. I am using the data points i have listed as justification as to why i believe the PS5 could run at a higher res than it is currently. The three data points i listed are facts as well but you choose to ignore them.
Fact XsX runs at 2160p
Fact PS5 runs at 1800p
Fact durring like for like taxing scenes PS5 holds higher framerate
Fact both consoles are capped at 60fps
You are assuming PS5 is running at exactly 60 fps im assuming based on the facts above that when XsX is at 60fps the PS5 (if unlocked) is running higher fps or at least has more head room to raise the res.
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Die Namek Ability
Member
Because its a drop under the cap of 60 fps and it happens on all systems in the same exact spot, where else would you recommend as a data point to determine the gpu limitations?
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Series X also has better shadows.
Die Namek Ability
Member
Good point, and one that im really at a loss for. Alex showed that at 4k it only had a 1fps diff from medium to high on pc. I wonder if it has something to do with the CPU?
Die Namek Ability
Member
Availability aside, personally i would go PS5 DE instead of XSS. I wish MS would have just made a DE XSX for $399
HoofHearted
Member
Who said I was assuming that PS5 is running at exactly 60fps?
Read my post again - we don’t have enough DATA for a valid FPS comparison.
To provide an actual and factual comparison would require the ability to run the game on both consoles at the EXACT same resolution and with the EXACT same settings enabled or disabled.
You’re making a lot of assumptions in your comparison above.
We don’t know what other settings were adjusted between the consoles outside of resolution and shadow details (which is the point of the PC comparisons trying to reverse engineer the other relevant settings that would potentially impact final frame rate).
We also don’t know if the frame rate drops in the one area on XSX is due to a bug, or indicative of hitting a bottleneck... only time will tell.
If anything - you could take the lowest frame rates reported in the cutscene for the consoles and use those to extrapolate an estimated “comparable” frame rate at a targeted 4K resolution for the PS5.
But even this approach would be very suspect due to the differences in shadow details as well as other potential differences noted above.
EDIT:
Your comment:
“Fact durring like for like taxing scenes PS5 holds higher framerate”
This isn’t valid nor should be construed as fact - The PS5 is never running the same taxing scenes “like for like” because the PS5 is running at a much lower resolution with lower shadow details.
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Old Empire.
Member
The reason PS fans are upset, they literally believed Sony had developed a stronger performing console, and that MS got found out late this year. This reality was make belief and they set themselves up for disappointment.
MS went with a more powerful GPU, and Sony a better SSD, and now the developers are figuring out what works and doesn’t work and the X power is showing. This should be case always Series ahead.
Rare to see PS5 winning if that happens a dev team decided to give priority to one console over another.
A 36 CU GPU even with higher clock frequency can’t match a 52 CU GPU,;
What's forgotten here is PS5 higher price is got lot to do with the SSD, not beating the series power. The first party devs will use it more than third party.
If you not got a 4K tv it does matter at all if Xbox wins here. You not playing at 4K. I remember people before this gen were saying 60fps and 120fps was a pipe dream and here we are and standard in a lot of titles. Whatever console you get, definitely an improvement over Pro and X
Pedro Motta
Member
Bro, we are never going to win with these fellas here, just keep doing your awesome work and let it speak for itself.
DonJuanSchlong
Banned
To be fair, DF are definitely non biased. They have just as much ps5 coverage compared to Xbox coverage, if not more. They don't just cater to the console with the better performance, but include both sides, and don't try to only show a downfall of one, while painting the other in a better light. I personally think they are great for both consoles and PC testing and bechmarks.
Die Namek Ability
Member
I thought i made it pretty clear this was my opinion and was based of the data points i identified. If you dont agree thats fine. But let me ask you this, knowing what you know with the XsX runing at 2160p and hitting 32 fps in the miami scene and PS5 being at 1800p and 37 fps in that same scene, if i told you there was a patch that released tonight for PS5 and tomorrow that same scene the PS5 was hitting only 32 fps would you assume the resolution went up in the patch, stayed the same or went down?
Edit: when i say like for like i am referring to them being at the same point, not that the settings are like for like. Also you can measure FPS and Resolution complete unattached from one another as long as you clearly understand the interaction between the two i.e. when res goes up fps goes down... kinda the premise of my speculation.
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Die Namek Ability
Member
I dont think many sane Sony fans believed Sony built a stronger console but merely that the Xbox fans were over exaggerating the performance gap. I am a sane Sony fan and that was my experience for the record.
DonJuanSchlong
Banned
I honestly believe most Sony fans on here believed they were getting at least 2070s performance, if not above 3090 performance in next gen games. In the speculation thread and several other threads, people were claiming the geometry engine and cache scrubbers would put it in a whole different level compared to everyone else, including PC. I've even heard of RDNA 3 performance from ps5, which is absolutely ludicrous to think it would have features before PC and everyone else.
Old Empire.
Member
It’s way too early to tell what the real differential is between them. Since we haven’t really got any true next gen titles yet developed, out., and sold specifically for PS5 and series X
There no doubt Playstation first party titles will still look phenomenal, even with a gap in power, however small or large, it truly turns out to be. This debate is fun and entertainment since both fans tend to lose their minds and have engaged in the madness myself.
Reality is were not getting 8k resolution games. It going to be 4k 60fps. So they're going to be fairly close in resolution either way. This is not last gen situation with 720p and 1080p and Xbox version looking blurry compared to PS version
. If you gaming enthusiast and hardcore PS and Xbox fan then 4K will matter of course, especially if you side losing a battle, but most gamers don’t care about resolution affects. The end up were friends and people they know play and good press about a console matters. Lot of people just heard 12 teraflops and said that lot of power for 500 Euros ( I live in Europe) and not wasting money here. The Xbox One was a hard sell because most gamers couldn’t care less about Kinect. and paying more for a more obvious inferior console.
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Die Namek Ability
Member
I think 2070s is pretty accurate.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
PS4 Pro had features before PC and everyone else
It's not some wild theory that PS5 could have exclusive features that will only appear in RDNA3. We have precedence and it's something Cerny has litterally talked about
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IDappa
Member
The relationship Sony fanboys have with DF is rather interesting. They are always credible until there's a Xbox positive comparison. The double standards you blokes have is so apparant it's not funny, I find it hard to take anyone serious with a hard bias some people show on here.
DonJuanSchlong
Banned
Depending on the bechmarks of course. There have been 2060 performance as well in other games.
Which one of those features are still used today's in PC world, especially compared to raytracing, DLSS, etc which has been out for at least 2 years now. Same thing with ssao, ambient occlusion, etc.
HoofHearted
Member
Yes - you made it clear it's your opinion.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with the core premise of what you're presenting as a point of discussion. I'm simply challenging the approach of incorporating assumptions into your data points that will ultimately yield inconsistent and wildly varying speculative results.
Also - framerate/FPS is simply the final metric of performance. It's the (unlocked) output variable that PC GPU comparisons utilize with all other game settings and configuration/variables set to be the same. For consoles - that comparison is extremely difficult due to the unknown configuration of the settings per console to truly and effectively provide an exact "like for like" comparison.
Up until this particular game - cross-gen games have generally yielded close/similar results in performance between XSX and PS5.
The more important question to answer is why is this game different? The game engine? Lazy Devs? Rushed timelines? Hardware?
There was a conscious choice by the development team to not target 2160p for PS5. It'll be interesting to see if the developers offer a patch to align the PS5 with similar target performance (as other games have previously done with the XSX) or provide further details as to the reasons behind that choice.
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Tchu-Espresso
likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
I pointed it out in the other thread shortly after the video was posted.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
But the benchmarks done by DF show that the PS5 was actually performing better the the 2070s so I dont blame Sony fans for believing they would get at least 2070 super performance.
There is clear visual and scientific evidence here that the PS5 was performing like a 2080 super in AC valhalla and CoD Cold War. Its ray tracing capabilities are somewhere around the 2060 according to the Watch Dogs DF comparison. There is also clear visual and scientific evidence that the PS5 is only 9% better than the 5700 and 7% worse than the 5700xt.
So I would say everyone needs to take a step back or deep breathe and watch for more comparisons to come out. It's possible that the Hitman engine is performs worse on AMD cards since the XSX GPU is only offering 3% better performance than the 5700xt which is only 9.6 tflops. It should offer 25% more performance based on the tflops difference alone. The XSX is being outperformed by the 2070 super which is 10% slower than the 2080 which is actually what the XSX is supposed to match according to MS themselves. (In gears 5 anyway)
So clearly, this game or rather more importantly this test is underperforming on AMD cards. Both the consoles and the PC GPUs. The PS5 is acting like a 8.6 tflops gpu and the XSX is performing like a 10 tflops GPU. Neither GPU is scaling performance like they should despite their extra tflops.
What IS clear is that the XSX has a distinct advantage over the PS5 here. But one that all the sane people expected. What i am trying to figure out is if we can use these results to ascertain the performance differential between the xsx and the ps5.
If the XSX is performing 23% better than the 5700 and the PS5 is 9% better than the 5700, can we assume that the xsx is offering 14% more performance than the PS5? I am asking because its midnight here and I struggle with percentages. But this would line up with the 18% tflops difference between the two consoles. It would also make much more sense than the 44% difference in the pixels we see in the final version.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
So I see that they confirmed RT support coming for Xbox Series, have they confirmed it for PS5 as well?
Neo_game
Member
Not sure about SS good for 300$ but I think SS is scaling for last gen S and SX from the X. Once the last gen console is dropped we will know but I think deamding games with have DRS or something around 1440P and SS will do around 900P
DonJuanSchlong
Banned
The 6800 xt is beating the 3080 by almost 20%. It's an AMD optimized title, so it should be performing well on xbox sx and ps5. But this just shows you limitations on hardware. I think XSX will flex it's muscles through it's tools from here on out, if devs harness it's power.But the benchmarks done by DF show that the PS5 was actually performing better the the 2070s so I dont blame Sony fans for believing they would get at least 2070 super performance.
There is clear visual and scientific evidence here that the PS5 was performing like a 2080 super in AC valhalla and CoD Cold War. Its ray tracing capabilities are somewhere around the 2060 according to the Watch Dogs DF comparison. There is also clear visual and scientific evidence that the PS5 is only 9% better than the 5700 and 7% worse than the 5700xt.
So I would say everyone needs to take a step back or deep breathe and watch for more comparisons to come out. It's possible that the Hitman engine is performs worse on AMD cards since the XSX GPU is only offering 3% better performance than the 5700xt which is only 9.6 tflops. It should offer 25% more performance based on the tflops difference alone. The XSX is being outperformed by the 2070 super which is 10% slower than the 2080 which is actually what the XSX is supposed to match according to MS themselves. (In gears 5 anyway)
So clearly, this game or rather more importantly this test is underperforming on AMD cards. Both the consoles and the PC GPUs. The PS5 is acting like a 8.6 tflops gpu and the XSX is performing like a 10 tflops GPU. Neither GPU is scaling performance like they should despite their extra tflops.
What IS clear is that the XSX has a distinct advantage over the PS5 here. But one that all the sane people expected. What i am trying to figure out is if we can use these results to ascertain the performance differential between the xsx and the ps5.
If the XSX is performing 23% better than the 5700 and the PS5 is 9% better than the 5700, can we assume that the xsx is offering 14% more performance than the PS5? I am asking because its midnight here and I struggle with percentages. But this would line up with the 18% tflops difference between the two consoles. It would also make much more sense than the 44% difference in the pixels we see in the final version.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Yep, it begs the question; what is Series X running at if framerate were uncapped in 99% of other game situations where the performance is a flawless 60fps at native 4K with high shadows? It's clear Series X is beasting in this game. Best part is Tier 2 VRS isn't in use, and neither is sampler feedback streaming. I suspect the FPS drop we do see is due to Series X running over into the slow RAM. SFS in later titles will fix this.
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DonJuanSchlong
Banned
VFXVeteran
literally claimed bandwith limitations and so forth, several months ago, even prior to release. Games would look similar to PC's, which were pushing these visuals from years ago. You gotta pay to play. You can't expect 4k, fully raytraced, high framerate, resolution, etc, unless you go PC. These things will trickle down to consoles in only a matter of time. But till then, you are at the mercy of ms/sony as well as the devs of the games.
Md Ray
Member
Not really ludicrous to think because both PS4 and PS4 Pro actually had some features/customizations before PC. PS4 GPU had 8 async compute engines (ACEs), a feature from GCN 2.0 despite PS4's GPU being a GCN 1.0 Pitcairn variant. PS4 Pro's GPU was based on GCN 4.0 Polaris but it had GCN 5.0 Vega features like the work distributor that distributes and load-balances geometry rendering, vertex work, etc. And the second feature is the ability to perform half-precision FP16 calculations aka rapid packed math which isn't present in Polaris on PC.
And Vega GPUs were released nearly a year after PS4 Pro came to the market.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yup. The Xbox 360 gpu is also another similar example.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Totally.
PC user 1 with $1,000 system: Hey look, I'm playing at 4k and high visual effects, getting 60 fps. And a few scenes where it dips.
PC user 2 with $1,000 system: Hey look, I'm playing the same game. I'm playing at 1800p and lower visual settings, getting 60 fps. I'm getting dips too, but not as often.
PC user 2: I win! My system is better!
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Really? Was 360 gpu that great at the time?
I thought 360's big advantage was it had 10 extra megs of side ram (or whatever) and that was the key difference.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
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Krappadizzle
Member
Love the grasping at straws for such superficial wins on whatever side of plastic ya' little hears are attached to.
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Halo is Back
Member
Because Sony fans have been acting smug for every port released which all had very minor advantages and now Xbox fans see blood in the water and want revenge now Hitman 3 objectively runs at a higher resolution. Same old console waring bullshit.
BLAUcopter
Gold Member
The 2021 version of the same old console waring bullshit.
People way nastier this time round.
Bogroll
Likes moldy games
Its funny how he used this footage of Dirt 5 comparison XSX V PS5 120hrz mode but let this footage slip through in hid latency video. Notice the average framerate in each video.Why is it people like you and @Concern like to throw out accusations of bias against @NXGamer yet when asked for any sort of proof I imagine this is the reaction.
Followed by..
I have always seen his results factually explained and laid out no matter which way they go.
So I dont think its fair to throw accusations with no proof to back it up. If you have something lets see it, I won't hold my breath for anything of substance back from you, as you lot are all hot air.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
It is downright incredible how emotional some of you get over what are basically minimal and mostly inconsequential differences between these two consoles.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Why the thread title change.
MacReady13
Member
I purchased today on Series X over PS5. No complaints here. Game looks absolutely phenomenal as I’m sure it would on PS5.
Knitted Knight
Banned
Because face offs of games where the PS5 has had clear and significant advantages like COD, Dirt 5, and AC Valhalla, the "PS Advantage" moniker wasn't included in the title (whether by OP or source discretion). To avoid more flame war, although it can't be helped for this thread.
Any sane observer understands the narrative of such language relative to previous inconsistency. If you don't stop the buck, you're setting a precedent.
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It's something I've never understood, are gamers actually playing a game and thinking " ooh I'm enjoying this game but I wish I bought it on the other plastic box because it has more fps/resolution/colour..."
or enjoying it more because of some youtuber telling them its .05% better than the other box? Does it genuinely affect their enjoyment of a game?
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Caio
Member
making a purchase based on a single Game is not the smartest thing to do. PS5 runs circles around XSS, come on, be serious, and overall performed better than XSX as well, since Launch
Edited : I cannot wait for games like GT7, Horizon, God of War, and the first Naughty dog Game on PS5, because all these silly threads will be like a funny memory, and comments like yours will sound like a 1st April fish.
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sunnysideup
Banned
One is 60fps, one is not.
Telling...
Telling...
skit_data
Member
The avg. FPS counter keeps steadily going up on PS5 in the second clip, it might be taken from that track where it has a low drop. It could be in the start of the race, whereas the Series X couldve run for a couple of laps driving up the avg. FPS.
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