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Rea
Member
Can you try photo mode on PC for framerates? Compare with the same scene with actual gameplay, i want to know the photo mode and gameplay has the same framerates or not.
Sinthor
Gold Member
Ah, I see. Well some good points, for sure. I was just wondering if one or likely both machines were limited to 'non-RDNA2' when in BC mode or something. But I see that...that 18% difference IS fascinating in light of what the numbers are. At least we'll keep getting more clarity on this as more and more games get announced. Maybe we DON'T need the native games to really tell us the story...I don't know....
MatrixReloaded101
Member
Keep telling yourself that ....
After what happened with cyberpunk, you would think people would learn by now to stop having these high expectations.
When they released that trailer they didn’t even say it was going to be a cross gen game at the time .....
MasterCornholio
Member
Keep telling yourself that ....
After what happened with cyberpunk, you would think people would learn by now to stop having these high expectations.
When they released that trailer they didn’t even say it was going to be a cross gen game at the time .....
Are you saying that Horizon FW will be another Cyberpunk?
Neo Blaster
Member
Da tools is so 2020, 'optimization issues' is the new 'black'.
MatrixReloaded101
Member
Of course not, I am saying that it will not look as good as what they showed in the trailer because it’s a cross gen game.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
i dont know about power consumption, but i just ran some tests on PC's CPU and GPU usage and the actual usage is the same across both the photo mode and in game. The CPU usage fluctuates for whatever reason during photo mode but it does the same during gameplay. goes from 25 to 18 back to 25.
The GPU usage is basically maxed out at 99% most of the time during photo mode so this is indeed a good test for both the CPU and GPU. Now why the xbox is struggling during gameplay is beyond me.
MistBreeze
Member
we know from the beginning that xbox series x has more CUs and a 2 teraflops better gpu than ps5
but the question is why it struggles to best of ps5 in real gameplay
no one will play a game in photo mode
maybe ps5 is the better designed machine or that these machines are mostly on par on real case scenarios
but the question is why it struggles to best of ps5 in real gameplay
no one will play a game in photo mode
maybe ps5 is the better designed machine or that these machines are mostly on par on real case scenarios
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As it's been mentioned that the CPU usage is minuscule during photo mode and assuming that the XSX is truly showing it's GPU grunt over PS5 only in photo modes, then it says 1 of 2 things about the XSX architecture which ain't good. There's some serious memory bus contention going on in the XSX between the CPU and GPU, the gimped memory bus is probably to blame. Secondly it doesn't have the power budget to run both CPU and GPU flat out due to it's locked clocks, a feature MS bragged about to throw shade onto PS5's Smartshift, oh the irony! I would believe the XSX is afflicted with both issues, and the fact we been seeing better RT shown in the photo mode examples for the PS5 negates the XSX GPU advantage. Plus most likely Control just ain't been optimised on the PS5 the same as for the XSX
On the subject of potential CPU/GPU contentions on UMA shared memory bus designs, it's been reported by sources this is not an issue on PS5
On the subject of potential CPU/GPU contentions on UMA shared memory bus designs, it's been reported by sources this is not an issue on PS5
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Imtjnotu
Member
One machine is fixed the other is variablei dont know about power consumption, but i just ran some tests on PC's CPU and GPU usage and the actual usage is the same across both the photo mode and in game. The CPU usage fluctuates for whatever reason during photo mode but it does the same during gameplay. goes from 25 to 18 back to 25.
The GPU usage is basically maxed out at 99% most of the time during photo mode so this is indeed a good test for both the CPU and GPU. Now why the xbox is struggling during gameplay is beyond me.
Power consumption should be a good check to see power draw.
Sinthor
Gold Member
Keep telling yourself that ....
After what happened with cyberpunk, you would think people would learn by now to stop having these high expectations.
When they released that trailer they didn’t even say it was going to be a cross gen game at the time .....
Lol. Guerilla has such a better track record than CDPR it's not even funny. The original Horizon Zero Dawn didn't have that kind of issue and neither will this new title. Dream on! Way better developer and targeting far superior hardware. There won't be any comparison with something as shabby as Cyberpunk is right now, though I'm sure they'll have most of the bugs tamped down so that the game is actually decent by about July or August of this year.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
yep after that disastrous CG reveal of KZ2 which they didnt even know about, they have actually been one of the few devs who have improved the visuals after revealing the game. KZ2, KZ3, Shadowfall and Horizon all looked better than their initial reveal trailers.
that said, horizon looks too good to be a cross gen title. i am hopeful, but im mentally preparing myself for a downgrade.
If you're talking about the fixed power consumption of the PS5, that's only true when Smartshift kicks in when the system is being pushed
Mr. PlayStation
Member
Are you literally trying to shift the goal post? I replied to his other comment to back up the claims that miles morales despite being cross gen actually feels like early next gen game in several aspects when played on PS5(PS5 version). Same would be the case with Horizon Forbidden West.Keep telling yourself that ....
After what happened with cyberpunk, you would think people would learn by now to stop having these high expectations.
When they released that trailer they didn’t even say it was going to be a cross gen game at the time .....
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Do you have a link to the bolded?
Without having seen the APU die shot, I can't imagine how it wouldn't have the same issue. It's still fundamentally a UMA system design with single common pool of memory. Perhaps a clever memory bus arrangement? But even then, both CPU and GPU will still access the individual memory chips across the the same common lanes.
Don Carlo
Member
Slice of Life Project under development, wew. The game is being called Lost and Found, we have a new franchise!!
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Don Carlo
Member
Not sure if that matters a lot, we have seen the gameplay comparisons, they are identical
Lunatic_Gamer
Gold Member
Resident Evil Village Is Longer Than VII, Has 3D Audio and No Load Times For Immersion
Resident Evil Village Is Longer Than VII, Has 3D Audio and No Load Times For Immersion
Resident Evil Village won't have any load times and support 3D Audio on PS5. The game is also going to be longer than Resident Evil VII.
gameinfinitus.com
Bo_Hazem
Banned
We all know about the 16% GPU advantage of XSX, but it's just like the advantage of muscle car on a dyno vs a Nissan GT-R speed on asphalt. And of course, I'm talking about starting from zero, not the retarded roll racing to mitigate how shitty muscle cars and outside the exaggeratedly sticky drag strips vs your everyday street. Funnily even Demon with 840HP is struggling with Nismo GT-R 600HP in a sticky circuit even with slicks vs stock tires:
Bragging about your dyno performance is always laughable.
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assurdum
Banned
To be fair Xbox series is the only console who have the same FPS issue seen in the past generation.
FranXico
Member
That's the power of authority for you. People will even ignore their own eyes in the correct circumstances.
Lysandros
Member
Nice car analogy.
Just to remind XSX has only a 18% advantage in two main GPU metrics; vector ALU and texel fillrate. PS5 also has an advantage over XSX in two main GPU metrics; polygons per second throughput (or triangle rasterization) and pixel fill rate by around 22%. Not even considering other metrics such as culling rate, cache speed/architecture, async etc. which all favor PS5. Now by which otherworldly logic we can say that XSX has a 18% (whole) GPU advantage over PS5 again and again as an objective truth? I just can't comprehend it.
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Lysandros
Member
The name is quite fitting in that case i guess.
Superayate
Member
Nice car analogy.
Don't forget also, on paper, the RT and memory bandwidth advantages, for the XsX. That's not totally negligible.... on paper.
The problem is that most of the game runs at locked 30 or 60 fps, and like hitman 3 or control, we don't really know how these consoles can really go over these caps.
For control, it is possible that most of the time the XsX has higher framerate than PS5, but for some reasons, can drop clearly higher than PS5, more often below the caps. I remember some games that was running with higher fps average with one GPU/system than another but with clearly worst 1% or 5% low fps.
That give a system with better overall level of performances with the game but a worst gaming experiences when these drops appeared too much.
Another thing that clearly surprises me with XsX are those drops that appeared with some text, alpha effects etc... That's the case with Hitman 3, Control, Destiny 2, ACV for example. I was watching the video about The division 2 and for example, we have a drop with such effect when level up:
That's really curious.
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MasterCornholio
Member
That definitely can happen but unlike Cyberpunk I don't believe it will be broken.
kyliethicc
Member
This is the first game, captured on my PS4. I'm not worried about the next one. It'll look beautiful.
More
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Lysandros
Member
In matter of RT, yes XSX can theoretically cast 18% more rays at any given scene/time but PS5 can generate 22% more (again theoretically) bounces per ray cast or processe any given bounce 22% faster since this is tied to CU frequency. Some implementations of RT can also heavily depend on cache performance and PS5 has an advantage there. So i can't see a clear-cut advantage in this area for XSX, specific implementations can slightly favor either machine.Don't forget also, on paper, the RT and memory bandwidth advantages, for the XsX. That's not totally negligible.... on paper.
The problem is that most of the game runs at locked 30 or 60 fps, and like hitman 3 or control, we don't really know how these consoles can really go over these caps.
For control, it is possible that most of the time the XsX has higher framerate than PS5, but for some reasons, can drop clearly higher than PS5, more often below the caps. I remember some games that was running with higher fps average with one GPU/system than another but with clearly worst 1% or 5% low fps.
That give a system with better overall level of performances with the game but a worst gaming experiences when these drops appeared too much.
Another thing that clearly surprises me with XsX are those drops that appeared with some text, alpha effects etc... That's the case with Hitman 3, Control, Destiny 2, ACV for example. I was watching the video about The division 2 and for example, we have a drop with such effect when level up:
That's really curious.
As to memory bandwidth XSX's split bandwidth (with only one part being 25% faster and the other around 30% slower compared to PS5's) solution sharing the same adress space is far from ideal. Which is important is the real world whole system bandwidth, which system has more data readily available to be processed in the caches by the CUs, with as less interruptions/cache misses in the data flow as possible. In this, cache speed/bandwidth, architectural differences in cache subsystem (eg. cache scrubbers) also play a very important role. In game examples like the one you provided PS5 often fares slightly better in alpha heavy situations and i don't think this is due to higher pixel fill rate of PS5 only since often fill rate and bandwidth have to work together in alpha heavy scenarios.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
This is the first game, captured on my PS4. I'm not worried about the next one. It'll look beautiful.
More
Can't see Xbox studios reaching PS4 in that case. How this game aged well is crazy.
MasterCornholio
Member
Probably explains why they didn't crank up the RT settings for the XSX version of Control. It does have an advantage but not so much that they can increase the settings.
What about where EA snaked Codemasters from TakeTwo recently, if I remember the details correctly. Wasnt that announced as happening, and then changed?
mejin
Member
Sony WWS is league above MGS.
assurdum
Banned
If they weren't negligible you already seen it in all the multiplat released until now. From what we have seen the bandwidth seems have more bottlenecks in series X than the ps5, in many circumstances. Maybe things could change later but expects a huge countertrend in favour for the series X, would be the first time in a console generation.Don't forget also, on paper, the RT and memory bandwidth advantages, for the XsX. That's not totally negligible.... on paper.
The problem is that most of the game runs at locked 30 or 60 fps, and like hitman 3 or control, we don't really know how these consoles can really go over these caps.
For control, it is possible that most of the time the XsX has higher framerate than PS5, but for some reasons, can drop clearly higher than PS5, more often below the caps. I remember some games that was running with higher fps average with one GPU/system than another but with clearly worst 1% or 5% low fps.
That give a system with better overall level of performances with the game but a worst gaming experiences when these drops appeared too much.
Another thing that clearly surprises me with XsX are those drops that appeared with some text, alpha effects etc... That's the case with Hitman 3, Control, Destiny 2, ACV for example. I was watching the video about The division 2 and for example, we have a drop with such effect when level up:
That's really curious.
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Bernd Lauert
Banned
Good looking but ultimately dead scenery. I hope next gen delivers more interactivity.This is the first game, captured on my PS4. I'm not worried about the next one. It'll look beautiful.
More
Thirty7ven
Banned
Don’t worry, it will never be good enough for you unless it’s on your platform of choice. Misery is like that, a soft pillow with a death touch.
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
Dead scenery because it is a picture maybe?
Otherwise those torches will have the flame dancing the tall grass moving slowly with the wind, an occasionnal Tallneck.
But yeah Horizon is not beautiful enough to make a picture look like it is moving.But considering what they achieve on a simple Ps4 I don't think what they showed for Forbidden west is out of their reach.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Glad it's not as interactive as Halo.
Speaking of interactivity, Control deserves a pass in graphics because of how dynamic it is.
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MasterCornholio
Member
Can't you interact with the foliage though plus there's those little details like the tree ants.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
If your talking about the world itself it's supposed to be a post apocalyptic environment. Cities are supposed to be devoid of life instead of bustling with humans. I'm just talking about the cities overrun by bots and not the place where the tribes live BTW.
Handy Fake
Member
kyliethicc
Member
Some of it had collision and wind sway, etc. Not as much as Naughty Dog's games or RDR2, but more than in games like Days Gone and Gears.
Decima is a top tier engine. HZD and Death Stranding are stunning technical achievements.
And no game has more crazy interactive environments than Control. That's what makes that game so cool to me.
Physiognomonics
Member
So now we know some scenes not during gameplay (in 2 games) are running a bit better on XSX (from 2% to 20%). But what about the gameplay now? Well, we have plenty of data of gameplay scenes and the outcome is quite different: PS5 is often winning those comparisons.
Destiny 2, same res, same effects and running better on PS5 in 60fps and 120fps modes. It's usually locked 60fps on PS5 while it frequently drops to the mid-fifties on XSX. And that game was already very optimized on XB1 as it was running in the same res as on PS4:
NBA 2K21. Sames res, same effets. This game is interesting as it can be considered a true next-gen game with next-gen assets, the game can drop again in the mid-fifties on XSX during gameplay using the widest camera (while it's 100% locked 60fps on PS5).
Now what about the 2 games where the XSX is running better during non gameplay scenes? What about the gameplay now?
Control. As far as we know (and using DF footage) it can drop in the fifties on PS5 and in the forties on XSX during gameplay.
We know about the mid-forties on XSX I think by accident. Cause they clearly didn't want to show us how low it could drop, while the PS5 game was stress tested by Dictator very thoroughly for his previous video.
But sure, what about Hitman 3? Isn't a game that show how superior the XSX is with a constant 44% higher resolution? well, remember that we want to compare the hardware capacities of both machines so we need to take into account the performance (like we did in the others games), not only the resolution. On XSX the gameplay is running at 2160p and can drop to 39fps. The game is almost always dropping in those sniper scenes and is also dropping in a specific level in the mid fifties (the level with plenty of grass).
PS5 is 1800p 60fps locked during the same scenes (the game is locked during 100% of the gameplay on PS5 anyways).
Well, well well, if you count how many pixel both machines render (the same way Dictator did it in the cutscenes in his PC vs consoles comparisons BTW), PS5 is actually winning this comparison as it outputs around 6% more pixels than XSX. And that's the minimum as the PS5 is locked and we have no idea how higher the framerate actually is.
Destiny 2, same res, same effects and running better on PS5 in 60fps and 120fps modes. It's usually locked 60fps on PS5 while it frequently drops to the mid-fifties on XSX. And that game was already very optimized on XB1 as it was running in the same res as on PS4:
NBA 2K21. Sames res, same effets. This game is interesting as it can be considered a true next-gen game with next-gen assets, the game can drop again in the mid-fifties on XSX during gameplay using the widest camera (while it's 100% locked 60fps on PS5).
Now what about the 2 games where the XSX is running better during non gameplay scenes? What about the gameplay now?
Control. As far as we know (and using DF footage) it can drop in the fifties on PS5 and in the forties on XSX during gameplay.
We know about the mid-forties on XSX I think by accident. Cause they clearly didn't want to show us how low it could drop, while the PS5 game was stress tested by Dictator very thoroughly for his previous video.
But sure, what about Hitman 3? Isn't a game that show how superior the XSX is with a constant 44% higher resolution? well, remember that we want to compare the hardware capacities of both machines so we need to take into account the performance (like we did in the others games), not only the resolution. On XSX the gameplay is running at 2160p and can drop to 39fps. The game is almost always dropping in those sniper scenes and is also dropping in a specific level in the mid fifties (the level with plenty of grass).
PS5 is 1800p 60fps locked during the same scenes (the game is locked during 100% of the gameplay on PS5 anyways).
Well, well well, if you count how many pixel both machines render (the same way Dictator did it in the cutscenes in his PC vs consoles comparisons BTW), PS5 is actually winning this comparison as it outputs around 6% more pixels than XSX. And that's the minimum as the PS5 is locked and we have no idea how higher the framerate actually is.
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Kamina
Golden Boy
Control has lost any right for a pass because of The Chin alone.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
That's why I said next gen in general. I don't view things through the lense of a pathetic platform warrior.
Also truth hurts apparently. Fun thread.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
So now we know some scenes not during gameplay (in 2 games) are running a bit better on XSX (from 2% to 20%). But what about the gameplay now? Well, we have plenty of data of gameplay scenes and the outcome is quite different: PS5 is often winning those comparisons.
Destiny 2, same res, same effects and running better on PS5 in 60fps and 120fps modes. It's usually locked 60fps on PS5 while it frequently drops to the mid-fifties on XSX. And that game was already very optimized on XB1 as it was running in the same res as on PS4:
NBA 2K21. Sames res, same effets. This game is interesting as it can be considered a true next-gen game with next-gen assets, the game can drop again in the mid-fifties on XSX during gameplay using the widest camera (while it's 100% locked 60fps on PS5).
Now what about the 2 games where the XSX is running better during non gameplay scenes? What about the gameplay now?
Control. As far as we know (and using DF footage) it can drop in the fifties on PS5 and in the forties on XSX during gameplay.
We know about the mid-forties on XSX I think by accident. Cause they clearly didn't want to show us how low it could drop, while the PS5 game was stress tested by Dictator very thoroughly for his previous video.
But sure, what about Hitman 3? Isn't a game that show how superior the XSX is with a constant 44% higher resolution? well, remember that we want to compare the hardware capacities of both machines so we need to take into account the performance (like we did in the others games), not only the resolution. On XSX the gameplay is running at 2160p and can drop to 39fps. The game is almost always droping in those sniper scenes and is also dropping in a specific level in the mid fifties (the level with plenty of grass).
PS5 is 1800p 60fps locked during the same scenes (the game is locked during 100% of the gameplay on PS5 anyways).
Well, well well, if you count how many pixel both machines render (the same way Dictator did it in the cutscenes in his PC vs consoles comparisons BTW), PS5 is actually winning this comparison as it outputs around 6% more pixels than XSX. And that's the minimum as the PS5 is locked and we have no idea how higher the framerate actually is.
PS5 has been smashing XSX on every game because it's a well-thought device by Cerny and Sony design team.
Funnily, XSX has gimped graphics and RT on Control according to solid side by side evidence and yet it performance worse.
Thirty7ven
Banned
“Smashing” come on Bro_Hem...
MasterCornholio
Member
So now we know some scenes not during gameplay (in 2 games) are running a bit better on XSX (from 2% to 20%). But what about the gameplay now? Well, we have plenty of data of gameplay scenes and the outcome is quite different: PS5 is often winning those comparisons.
Destiny 2, same res, same effects and running better on PS5 in 60fps and 120fps modes. It's usually locked 60fps on PS5 while it frequently drops to the mid-fifties on XSX. And that game was already very optimized on XB1 as it was running in the same res as on PS4:
NBA 2K21. Sames res, same effets. This game is interesting as it can be considered a true next-gen game with next-gen assets, the game can drop again in the mid-fifties on XSX during gameplay using the widest camera (while it's 100% locked 60fps on PS5).
Now what about the 2 games where the XSX is running better during non gameplay scenes? What about the gameplay now?
Control. As far as we know (and using DF footage) it can drop in the fifties on PS5 and in the forties on XSX during gameplay.
We know about the mid-forties on XSX I think by accident. Cause they clearly didn't want to show us how low it could drop, while the PS5 game was stress tested by Dictator very thoroughly for his previous video.
But sure, what about Hitman 3? Isn't a game that show how superior the XSX is with a constant 44% higher resolution? well, remember that we want to compare the hardware capacities of both machines so we need to take into account the performance (like we did in the others games), not only the resolution. On XSX the gameplay is running at 2160p and can drop to 39fps. The game is almost always dropping in those sniper scenes and is also dropping in a specific level in the mid fifties (the level with plenty of grass).
PS5 is 1800p 60fps locked during the same scenes (the game is locked during 100% of the gameplay on PS5 anyways).
Well, well well, if you count how many pixel both machines render (the same way Dictator did it in the cutscenes in his PC vs consoles comparisons BTW), PS5 is actually winning this comparison as it outputs around 6% more pixels than XSX. And that's the minimum as the PS5 is locked and we have no idea how higher the framerate actually is.
I would say the data is handled differently during gameplay than photomode. Some things just don't need to be calculated during actual gameplay. It's all that I can think of that would explain the differences between the two modes.
ethomaz
Banned
Codemaster was a public company?
I just checked and yes... public companies requires any bid to be made public before the deal happen so others companies can make a counter bid if they wish.
It is a intention to buy... you make your public intention to buy public and Codemaster can accept or not... others companies can make their own public intention to buy too.
Public companies purchase works more like an Auction house.
Non-public companies the deals are made in private and just announced to public after it is signed.
Can you have two companies fighting to buy a private company? Yes, but it is private and just the company to be purchased knows it (they can tell the other company to try to increase the bid creating somehow a private Auction).
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