Neo Blaster
Member
Wasn't MS the one bragging about crossgen from the start?
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Neo Blaster
Member
Hoping you're having a blast playing in photo mode.Control photomode says ‘No’
ArcaneNLSC
Member
that 1 fph actionHoping you're having a blast playing in photo mode.
Lysandros
Member
And then what happens if a game's engine is raster or ROP bound? What if a specific game's code leads to more cache misses in XSX's GPU due to its lesser cache architecture? As to compute, did you add per CU efficiency or ASYNC compute to the equation? Do these machines have the exact same efficiency in compute, what's the median real world difference about the matter? What do we know about the specifics of PS5's ASYNC compute architecture besides the fact that HWS and ACE blocks run at 22% higher frequency compared to XSX's? What we do about the fact that PS5's GPU has the potential to discard its triangles upto 22% faster and earlier in the pipeline? Before completely ruling out XSX's GPU from the picture we should be a bit more informed about these 'small' matters i think...
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Riky
$MSFT
You've just added a load of stuff I didn't say
Where did I say PS5 was maxed out? Where did I say it would take five years?
We've already seen with Hitman 3 what the potential is.
FranXico
Member
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Anyone drawing long-term conclusions based on early cross-gen games is being daft (or a fanboy.)
The only conclusion we can draw is: early in the gen the PS5 has a slight lead, but both systems perform well and have great load times.
The only conclusion we can draw is: early in the gen the PS5 has a slight lead, but both systems perform well and have great load times.
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MasterCornholio
Member
You've just added a load of stuff I didn't say
Where did I say PS5 was maxed out? Where did I say it would take five years?
We've already seen with Hitman 3 what the potential is.
You mean this?
You just called the XSX a console that's difficult to develop for which is your explanation on why it's not vastly ahead of the PS5. As for the 5 years comment when do you think the XSX will pull far ahead of the PS5? If it's anything like the PS3 it will take around 5 years for developers to get used to. That's when I noticed multiplats getting a lot better on the PS3. Although I personally don't believe the XSX is that difficult to develop for. Pretty much developers will take a year or two to get used to each system. It will take longer than that for engines to be built for them.
Anyways the Control GPU benchmark proves that developers have access to those additional CUs. If it's not reflected in actual gameplay it's due to other reasons. If everything was perfect with the XSX it would have clearly won every single multiplat comparisons. That's taking the paper specifications seriously BTW.
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MasterCornholio
Member
FranXico
Member
Page was taken down.
Still, based on prior history with Demon's Souls, I'd guess it likely is being released around April/May.
Not really launch window any more then, right Ted?
MasterCornholio
Member
To fair Hitman 3 is better on the XSX. But I don't know if
Riky
is correct saying that all games can potentially have those differences. I read a comment that talked about engines and how they require different things from a GPU. I'm not sure if the Hitman 3 engine is representative of what other engines can be like. Take control for example. We have those differences in fotomode but the actual gameplay is almost identical between both systems and all modes. Sometimes the PS5 is ahead and other times the XSX is ahead. You could never predict that just by looking at fotomode and it certainly isn't another Hitman 3 case.
We have to wait for more comparisons to get the true story.
Riky
$MSFT
I didn't say it was difficult to develop for, I said moving code from the Pro and X1X versions to next gen would be simpler for PS5 based on the spec comparison. They are both AMD RDNA2 based machines so comparing to PS3/360 is redundant.
As for "vastly" ahead, I don't think an 18% GPU difference is going to make for vastly different results, it isn't going to mean doubling of framerates or huge resolution jumps. It will probably just mean with DRS holding a resolution better.
I'll hold judgement until we see next gen only games with all the features of the new consoles being used.
ethomaz
Banned
If we go with Cerny words.
“easy to work, hard to master.”
PS5 potential is really not being used yet.
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MasterCornholio
Member
I thought Control wasn't a rushed next gen patch like The Division 2 is. From what I've seen it certainly isn't a copy and paste of last gen ports. Massive differences should have been apparent by now is all I'm saying. But you don't believe they will even exist so I don't get this wait and see approach.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
When did Cerny say this about the PS5? Didn't he say this about the PS3? lol
The PS5's GPU setup was advertised as being easy to utilize than a wider setup.
I'm sure there are aspects of the PS5 that devs have yet to "master", but making any definitive statements about which console is going to get more/less optimization in the future is just silly.
You are all such silly gooses.
Riky
$MSFT
We haven't seen any next gen games yet, we'll see what advantages PS5 has with its SSD structure and Xbox with its bigger GPU and RDNA2 hardware support.
Until we see those things in action the jury's out still.
ethomaz
Banned
He did not work on PS3 lol
He probably said something similar for PS4.
BTW a quote DF interview:
“ PS5 design is easy for PlayStation 4 developers to get to grips with, but digging deeper into the new system's capabilities, there are many aspects of the PS5 design that PCs will be hard-pressed to match”
PlayStation 5 uncovered: the Mark Cerny tech deep dive
On March 18th, Sony finally broke cover with in-depth information on the technical make-up of PlayStation 5. Expanding …
www.eurogamer.net
I believe the PS5 SDKs, tools and APIs are an upgrade to PS4’s ones so very similar... that makes everything easy to developers. From PS3 to PS4 Sony had a big change in SDK, Tools and APIs.
But it seems that to get most of the hardware potential is probably way hard than PS4 because there are things even PC developers deísmo get touch yet.
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MasterCornholio
Member
So what made you change your mind?
I remember you saying the XSS would be pushing the PS5 hard but then the XSX is on par with it.
Did the comparisons have something to do with it?
If they did then you do have a general idea on what you think the performance differences will be like and that's before we even see next gen games.
Also what makes the label RDNA2 so special?
Finem Orientis
Member
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart
Standard EditionDigital Deluxe Edition
Rating: Parental Guidance 12 (PG 12)
遊戲軟體分級資料下載.csv
https://www.gamerating.org.tw/Search/GameList
Rating: Parental Guidance 12 (PG 12)
Only persons of age 12 and above may use such software.
Suggestive themes.
No bloody fights and horrifying scenes.
Scenes with general obscene speech but no crude language.
Game design that promotes virtual love and marriage.
Use of virtual currency or game results do not directly affect the increase or decrease of virtual currency in card and puzzle entertainment games.
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LiquidRex
Member
GE is one aspect that is difficult to master, RGT has mentioned this a few times.
Cerny is a strong believer of the philosophy "Easy to learn, Hard to master."
I believe he did say the GE can run automatically, but to get the most out of it, you need to invest time in coding for it.
“It feels like we’re just scratching the surface of what you can do with hardware like [the PS5],” says Fitzgerald. “That we sort of can take a game model like Spider-Man and make everything really fast. Even the Ratchet and Clank game we’re working on is leaning into that, a lot.” Mike Fitzgerald, Insomniac.
MLID is continues to double down that RDNA 3 features are present in the PS5. RGT has been saying for the second half of last year that there are or RDNA 3 features or features that will contribute to RDNA 3 feature set.
I want to know just how custom the ZEN 2 CPU is.
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Because the EU has never once ever ruled any sort of "Walled garden" illegal. They investigated Apple and all they did was rule on their pre-installed apps, and self-serving practices with the App Store. They have never ruled Sony or MS buying a company w/ the obvious addition of games that will be more-exclusive as illegal..
Find me one time in the EU made any ruling against a walled garden, or someone owning a walled garden growing their own production of software? Sony has done it, MS has done it.. particularly when it involves the purchase of another company.
Growing larger as a company by buying is not anti-competitive in any sort of legal sense, unless you are in a dominant market position.
It's not a straw man, it's the literal situation at hand.. a company being bought to grow it's own market share.. almost every company purchase involves making products exclusively sold by that company in some sense, as they become the only distributor, no matter what other kinds of exclusivity happens down the road.
How in the world are you LOL-whating this? The only issue you are bringing to the table is that this will likely involve removing some products from some consoles, that's it. Zenimax products will not be exclusively available on only Xbox. They will not be exclusively sold by Microsoft even if they are only available on Xbox (which there is no real chance of), same with on PC... some products like their mobile gaming studios likely will have no change.
And MS can say they will gladly make these products available on playstation or Switch via xCloud or GamePass, and point out that it is Sony/Nintendo who will try to block that.
So the only real issue here is the size of the purchase being a publisher.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I'm aware, but he talked about PS3 and how difficult it was for devs when he talked about PS4, and he talked about.. changing that dramatically for PS4.
Oh.. probably..
BTW a quote DF interview:
Ok.. so no answer to my question? lol
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HoofHearted
Member
Eh - perhaps?
Ironically - History may be repeating itself (Bizarro world?) here in similar fashion to what was previously experienced with the PS3 vs X360...
Granted the architecture between those 2 particular platforms were vastly different compared to what these next-gen platforms have delivered.. however, it's becoming somewhat apparent that , in some instances, significant additional time, effort, and tuning is required on the XSX versus PS5.
All of this chatter and arguing around these game comparisons (800% zoom!?!?!) and minor glitches in FPS performance indicators on current cross-gen game architectures (which is, let's be honest, where ALL of these games are currently) will be completely irrelevant 3-5 years from now... and only then will we have relevant information on true actual differences in overall performance between these new platforms..
PaintTinJr
Member
With respect to control photomode conclusions, do we know if the settings in photomode were explicitly matched before conclusions were drawn? Only reason I ask, is that when I started Control UE(PS5) the other night - only 10mins in - I was curious as to why the photomode has a Camera Speed, and why it was set to 50 by default on my system,. I then wondered if this is identical on XsX, and if the camera speed has any link to a frame-rate cap, because the game in gameplay with RT on feels like it is operating well within the hardware's capability, as though it is waiting for me, rather than the old AC 30fps in the 360/PS3 gen of feeling like I'm preloading inputs and waiting for them to playout.
kyliethicc
Member
good that means its gotta be coming in a few months. Probably April-June.
ethomaz
Banned
I’m confused now... you asked only two questions.
“When did Cerny say this about the PS5? Didn't he say this about the PS3? lol”
On EG article I posted.
He did not work on PS3.
I simple reply to them.
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I asked you where he said this about the PS5. That was my main question, which you have not answered.
And Cerny has talked extensively about the PS3.. no-one said he designed it. My point was he talked about a system he DIDNT design being difficult.
My main point being nobody can say remotely conclusively which system will see greater improvement over time, particularly for 3rd parties.
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kyliethicc
Member
Ehh November + 6 months is probably what they meant when they said they're "aiming for launch window"
So yeah April or May seems most likely. Probably May cause Returnal is April.
MasterCornholio
Member
It's not like games are broken on the XSX. I remember playing multiplatforms that had a ton of issues on PS3 and not the X360. Plus there were those developers that said the Cell was horrible to deal with. Definitely not where the same as the XSX.
It could be true the XSX is harder to make games for but I don't think it's anything significant. It's not like half the performance is locked away because the console is difficult to make games for.
As time goes on developers will become more familiar with each systems hardware and games will get better on both. Neither one is maxed out at launch despite one system (in theory) being easier to make games for.
ethomaz
Banned
Of course I have... I even linked lol
“ PS5 design is easy for PlayStation 4 developers to get to grips with, but digging deeper into the new system's capabilities, there are many aspects of the PS5 design that PCs will be hard-pressed to match”
PlayStation 5 uncovered: the Mark Cerny tech deep dive
On March 18th, Sony finally broke cover with in-depth information on the technical make-up of PlayStation 5. Expanding …
www.eurogamer.net
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
No you didn't... that's.. not a quote from Cerny. Nor does it even imply what you are claiming Cerny said. PC will be hard-pressed to match PS5... that's.. not anything about how hard those things will be to master. Nor again.. is it a Cerny statement.
ethomaz
Banned
You are really crazy lol
It is the same thing.
saintjules
Member
Zheph
Member
11th june it is official
Finem Orientis
Member
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart arrives exclusively to PS5 on June 11, 2021.
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ethomaz
Banned
Longer wait that expected but a good date.
We we need to know what Sony will launch for holidays.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
saintjules
Member
I don't know actually. Some of it would make sense, but I think they could have ridden off what Navtra was saying from Era. That's who I'd recommend following for any news related to FFVIIR.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
June is too late. Was hoping for some new footage.
Man this has been a rough start to the year. So basically no AAA games from any first or third party studio until June 11th.
ethomaz
Banned
You are becoming even more crazy lol
“Cerny shared little, except to say that PS5 design...”
lol
Well if you want to call what Richard wrote a lie it is up for you... just say “I don’t believe in what Richard wrote about what Cerny said”.
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MasterCornholio
Member
It would have been nice if it was sooner but at least we are getting it this year. Seriously wondering if I will have a PS5 by then.
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Finem Orientis
Member
Shelookdlvl18
Banned
I think that's a pretty far fetched scenario. I mean, I can sometimes go along with false narrative/alternate reality that occupies GAF, but extrapolating it out that far is a bit too much. You're checking hardware components off like a checkbox here like, yep GPU isn't better on XBSX. I also read that I/O, Ram, APIs, and CPU are all better on PS5 as well. Your assertion is silly enough as it is, but then you go on to post this...
Which completely goes against your previous claim only minutes earlier.
So on one hand you're claiming that all sorts of things on the XBSX could likely be maxed out, but that we know for sure that the PS5 isn't maxed out yet. What?
Jeez, how absolutely pitiful it must be to go to such lengths in order to paint the picture you're trying to paint. You've reached the the pinnacle of console warring. There's fanboys of all sorts, but that's really some next level/prestige type fanboying type stuff. I'm actually kind of impressed.
It's bad enough to actually believe the forced narrative that is presented here where the PS5 is outperforming the XBSX in every comparison except for the odd cases when it's obviously due to a glitch, or it's surely a cross gen issue... But to actually believe that to such an extent that you're now attempting to relate it to actual hardware components or APIs is going off the deep end.
I had no idea the rabbit hole was anywhere near that deep.
MasterCornholio
Member
And that is how the Lombax race will save themselves from extinction.
carloseduardocd
Member
Oh yes, sure. The're not even using Ray Tracing dedicated chip yet. Only Ray Tracing in shader-core brute forte to have the same PS5 weak performance.
They're no even using GDK. .
DirectML is even 3x faster than DLSS. And has dedicated chip only on Xbox Series. Even 6800XT doesnt have. The super resolution in Xbox will be from 1080p to 4k easy. Better than DLSS and their weak Tensor Cores.
kyliethicc
Member
Cool cool now make more PS5s Jim
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
He basically said you don't have to do anything as a developer and the system will take care of it for you at great performance, but, he also said if they wanted to dig deeper and over the years as they learn more tricks, they can exploit it much further than "out of the box" configs.Maybe that 1/10th is only for one I/O function the CPU does?
I hate to post this hear but I believe Cerny explains quite well the steps that you have to take to pull something from the I/O.
The PS5 has custom hardware that handles every step of the I/O so that the CPU doesn't have to do anything. From my understanding while the XSX does have some hardware to relieve the CPU of I/O work it doesn't take care of everything.
That's all that I can think of really for any I/O related issues on the XSX.
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MasterCornholio
Member
I think that's a pretty far fetched scenario. I mean, I can sometimes go along with false narrative/alternate reality that occupies GAF, but extrapolating it out that far is a bit too much. You're checking hardware components off like a checkbox here like, yep GPU isn't better on XBSX. I also read that I/O, Ram, APIs, and CPU are all better on PS5 as well. Your assertion is silly enough as it is, but then you go on to post this...
Which completely goes against your previous claim only minutes earlier.
So on one hand you're claiming that all sorts of things on the XBSX could likely be maxed out, but that we know for sure that the PS5 isn't maxed out yet. What?
Jeez, how absolutely pitiful it must be to go to such lengths in order to paint the picture you're trying to paint. You've reached the the pinnacle of console warring. There's fanboys of all sorts, but that's really some next level/prestige type fanboying type stuff. I'm actually kind of impressed.
It's bad enough to actually believe the forced narrative that is presented here where the PS5 is outperforming the XBSX in every comparison except for the odd cases when it's obviously due to a glitch, or it's surely a cross gen issue... But to actually believe that to such an extent that you're now attempting to relate it to actual hardware components or APIs is going off the deep end.
I had no idea the rabbit hole was anywhere near that deep.
I didn't say either are maxed out at launch. But each system does have its limitations when it comes to the games.
I know there's a theory that developers won't squeeze out alot more from the PS5 but they will from the XSX. There's still a lot they can do with both systems.
What I'm not expecting is the XSX to all of a sudden become twice as powerful as the PS5 due to developers getting used to the hardware. Neither will the same happen with the PS5.
If there's anything we can take from the comparisons is that both systems are on par with each other. Of course each one has their own strengths or weaknesses.
For example in games that require more compute the XSX will have an advantage. In games that favor a better I/O the PS5 will do better there.
Hopefully they helps.
Btw im not insulting you with this comment nor am I calling you a mentally insane console warrior. I would prefer I'd you would not call me that in the future.
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