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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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mejin

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Great Hair

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New Game+ Expo, a collaboration of video game publishers from around the world, will host its second digital showcase of upcoming titles, updates, and special guest appearances on March 4 at 8:00 a.m. PT / 11:00 a.m. ET. You will be able to watch it on Twitch.
 


This tweet has been shared for a few times now on this thread, I read some of it and it was certainly interesting, more specifically he uses the term "geometry throughput", I remember about a year ago RedGamingTech was talking about how the PS5 and Series X had very different design goals. Series X was focused on huge amounts of compute power where as the PS5 was focused more on "geometry throughput" and "low latency data access". I never considered the term an indicator of the overall performance but I was wrong. If anyone is wondering what exactly these terms means especially "geometry throughput", well the best example by far is the Unreal Engine 5 demo.

RGT also stated (based on what a source told him) that both consoles will form a "distinct look" early on in the generation based of their design choices, which makes me very curious as it could mean a lot of things.
 

jamwest24

Member


This tweet has been shared for a few times now on this thread, I read some of it and it was certainly interesting, more specifically he uses the term "geometry throughput", I remember about a year ago RedGamingTech was talking about how the PS5 and Series X had very different design goals. Series X was focused on huge amounts of compute power where as the PS5 was focused more on "geometry throughput" and "low latency data access". I never considered the term an indicator of the overall performance but I was wrong. If anyone is wondering what exactly these terms means especially "geometry throughput", well the best example by far is the Unreal Engine 5 demo.

RGT also stated (based on what a source told him) that both consoles will form a "distinct look" early on in the generation based of their design choices, which makes me very curious as it could mean a lot of things.

Could it be PS5 has crazy high poly counts and detail yet slightly lower resolution and XSX has similar looking graphics to current gen with higher resolution? Just speculating.
 
Could it be PS5 has crazy high poly counts and detail yet slightly lower resolution and XSX has similar looking graphics to current gen with higher resolution? Just speculating.
I don't beleive either console is bad at those. Like I don't think Series X is bad at geometry performance, likewise I don't think PS5 is bad at compute performance, both consoles should be capable enough but will have their "speciality".
 

jamwest24

Member
I don't beleive either console is bad at those. Like I don't think Series X is bad at geometry performance, likewise I don't think PS5 is bad at compute performance, both consoles should be capable enough but will have their "speciality".
I’m gonna agree to disagree on the geometry front. I don’t think XSX will be able to push the same polys ie data the PS5 will (and has), but should be interesting. I think the XSX is a more conventional design that will continue to show that. It might be better in some FPS comparisons of newer games (although current cross-gen has yet to show that).
 
I’m gonna agree to disagree on the geometry front. I don’t think XSX will be able to push the same polys ie data the PS5 will (and has), but should be interesting. I think the XSX is a more conventional design that will continue to show that. It might be better in some FPS comparisons of newer games (although current cross-gen has yet to show that).
I wouldn't rule Series X out although I'm confident PS5 will outperform it in geometry intense scenarios. Primitive and Mesh Shaders will also be a game changer for rendering geometry as they're ridiculously more efficient and programmable compared to the traditional graphics pipeline and allow higher levels of GPU utilisation, they also allow things like tessellation (increasing poly count of geometry by sub-dividing triangles/polygons) to become more easier and programmable.
 
I don't beleive either console is bad at those. Like I don't think Series X is bad at geometry performance, likewise I don't think PS5 is bad at compute performance, both consoles should be capable enough but will have their "speciality".
The ps5 was designed for data the series x was designed for traditional compute more horsepower to make the ol traditional games look better on screen raytracing shaders etc. The ps5 was designed 100gb of ram in mind it shows in the ssd silicon investment this means more polygons/textures and cold data per scene good example unreal 5. And sampler feedback or velocity isn't any where near to what ps5s architecture we've already seen the medium having popin. And it's a Xbox series only nextgen game using all features.
 

reksveks

Member
The ps5 was designed for data the series x was designed for traditional compute more horsepower to make the ol traditional games look better on screen raytracing shaders etc. The ps5 was designed 100gb of ram in mind it shows in the ssd silicon investment this means more polygons/textures and cold data per scene good example unreal 5. And sampler feedback or velocity isn't any where near to what ps5s architecture we've already seen the medium having popin. And it's a Xbox series only nextgen game using all features.

Source that it's using all the features?
 
Source that it's using all the features?
The developer said it time and time again https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/gamerant.com/medium-next-gen-exclusive-reason/amp/
XBLNU8o.jpg

So ask yourself why ps5 games like spider man demon souls load in a second ratchet switches worlds in 2 seconds and unreal engine 5 streams 100+Gb of data in realtime on ps5 only and nothing of sort hasn't been shown on Xbox series x besides promises and a lot of marketing campaigns yet nothing to show for.
 

reksveks

Member
The developer said it time and time again https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/gamerant.com/medium-next-gen-exclusive-reason/amp/
XBLNU8o.jpg

So ask yourself why ps5 games like spider man demon souls load in a second ratchet switches worlds in 2 seconds and unreal engine 5 streams 100+Gb of data in realtime on ps5 only and nothing of sort hasn't been shown on Xbox series x besides promises and a lot of marketing campaigns yet nothing to show for.
'But the gameplay mechanic built around those two worlds couldn't be fully realized on current-gen hardware'

Isn't the same as take advantage of all next gen features, it just means that they don't have the ability to run the game on older consoles cause its using something integral to next gen.

I am just talking about your comment stating that The Medium is using all the feature of xsx. I am not interested in involving ps5 into my conversation as it quickly descends to console war crap.

Do we know if the game engine uses direct io on pc?
 
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'But the gameplay mechanic built around those two worlds couldn't be fully realized on current-gen hardware'

Isn't the same as take advantage of all next gen features, it just means that they don't have the ability to run the game on older consoles cause its using something integral to next gen.

I am just talking about your comment stating that The Medium is using all the feature of xsx. I am not interested in involving ps5 into my conversation as it quickly descends to console war crap.

Do we know if the game engine uses direct io on pc?
They did say they use velocity architecture and the ssd on series x yet we saw popin and the two world series are actually both in ram and the game could run on hdd pc
 

Lunatic_Gamer

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A Bold Move For Battlefield


The project is tracking towards the franchise’s earliest Alpha, the gameplay is at an unprecedented scale, and we are taking full advantage of the technology in the next-gen consoles.
We’ve recently seen the first version of the reveal trailer for Battlefield and it’s shaping up to be a truly amazing first look at this groundbreaking game. I think fans are going to love it!

 

reksveks

Member
They did say they use velocity architecture and the ssd on series x yet we saw popin and the two world series are actually both in ram and the game could run on hdd pc

Part of the issue of Microsoft using velocity architecture as a branding term, especially when it contains a number of hardware and software features and then publishers are able to use that word when they use a single feature. Using The Medium as an example of the xsx capabilities is a bit of a bad choice given how badly it performs on stupidly high end PC gpu's.
 
Part of the issue of Microsoft using velocity architecture as a branding term, especially when it contains a number of hardware and software features and then publishers are able to use that word when they use a single feature. Using The Medium as an example of the xsx capabilities is a bit of a bad choice given how badly it performs on stupidly high end PC gpu's.
Mate the ssd on series x is simply a big marketing term the only hardware is the decompression silicon everything else is marketing we've seen This time and time again the medium has popin dirt 5 has popin control drops fps when streaming cyberpunk freezes and stutters when streaming all on series x you can say they aren't optimised but then again this games don't freeze stutter or drop fps whenever streaming on ps5, that ssd on series x has nothing out of the ordinary that pcs couldnt do, it's just the direct storage api that's missing on pc.

Microsoft know this and it's why they keep trying to save Face by talking about sampler feedback as a ram multiplier they just gave partial resident textures and virtual texturing a new name something that has existed since Xbox 360 rage. And even id software used on doom 2016 and removed it from doom eternal and also extensively used in almost all open world games... they knew they don't have the technology that's on the ps5 and all they could do was go on a marketing campaign to try and save their faces you see them shouting everyday about rdna 12 teraflops and velocity in every silicon show that's out there and not a single game to show for it. If that ssd was anything special you would have seen something. People are being fooled yet again by Microsoft

It's dejavu ive heard this before, when PS4 specs came out and showed to Be better than xbone they came out with another marketing campaign exact carbon copy to the current one back in 2014 they talked all year long about direct x 12 and tiled resources aka sampler feedback aka virtual texturing aka partial resident textures Jesus this demon has many names. Would shorten the gap with PS4 and oh my god it's 2021 and it never happened.
 

reksveks

Member
Mate the ssd on series x is simply a big marketing term the only hardware is the decompression silicon everything else is marketing we've seen This time and time again the medium has popin dirt 5 has popin control drops fps when streaming cyberpunk freezes and stutters when streaming all on series x you can say they aren't optimised but then again this games don't freeze stutter or drop fps whenever streaming on ps5, that ssd on series x has nothing out of the ordinary that pcs couldnt do, it's just the direct storage api that's missing on pc.

Microsoft know this and it's why they keep trying to save Face by talking about sampler feedback as a ram multiplier they just gave partial resident textures and virtual texturing a new name something that has existed since Xbox 360 rage. And even id software used on doom 2016 and removed it from doom eternal and also extensively used in almost all open world games... they knew they don't have the technology that's on the ps5 and all they could do was go on a marketing campaign to try and save their faces you see them shouting everyday about rdna 12 teraflops and velocity in every silicon show that's out there and not a single game to show for it. If that ssd was anything special you would have seen something. People are being fooled yet again by Microsoft

It's dejavu ive heard this before, when PS4 specs came out and showed to Be better than xbone they came out with another marketing campaign exact carbon copy to the current one back in 2014 they talked all year long about direct x 12 and tiled resources aka sampler feedback aka virtual texturing aka partial resident textures Jesus this demon has many names. Would shorten the gap with PS4 and oh my god it's 2021 and it never happened.
I didn't argue that the ssd is anything special, I just stated that the Medium isn't confirmed to be using all the features. If no engine is using direct io at the moment on the PC, then I am assuming it won't be on the xbox series consoles.
 
I didn't argue that the ssd is anything special, I just stated that the Medium isn't confirmed to be using all the features. If no engine is using direct io at the moment on the PC, then I am assuming it won't be on the xbox series consoles.
Direct storage isnt on pc yet and no that's not the reason it simply means that ssd on series x isn't special and basically any pc with a ssd can do what it's doing. And yes they said that the medium uses velocity architecture time and time again. https://www.onmsft.com/news/xbox-series-x-exclusive-game-the-medium-has-been-delayed-to-january-2021
tfa57AQ.jpg
 

reksveks

Member
Direct storage isnt on pc yet and no that's not the reason it simply means that ssd on series x isn't special and basically any pc with a ssd can do what it's doing. And yes they said that the medium uses velocity architecture time and time again. https://www.onmsft.com/news/xbox-series-x-exclusive-game-the-medium-has-been-delayed-to-january-2021
tfa57AQ.jpg
It's like you don't read my post. I already said that Microsoft making Velocity Architecture so vague is a bad idea. DirectIO is limited in terms of the GPU's that supports it.
 

Allandor

Member
Part of the issue of Microsoft using velocity architecture as a branding term, especially when it contains a number of hardware and software features and then publishers are able to use that word when they use a single feature. Using The Medium as an example of the xsx capabilities is a bit of a bad choice given how badly it performs on stupidly high end PC gpu's.
People just forget, that most games are not performing bad because of the hardware features. They are performing bad, because developers in small teams normally don't have the time (and maybe even knowledge) to optimize everything. If the game works on the hardware, it is good enough.
And it seems this team needed at least the series s as console to get the game working in their time window.
Companies want to make money and normally as much as possible in a short time. This leads to decisions that games get released even if developers still might want to optimize them here and there. Or they get even released when they are full of bugs (e.g. cyberpunk). Most times it games just have to be "good enough" to get released. The better the hardware it runs on, the easier it is to achieve that goal with minimal time on code optimization.

I also see that often when developing cloud services. If it is good enough, it gets released. Scaling is most times easily possible by more containers, db-scaling .... (in short, more hardware) up to a certain point. But when the costs get to high, than (and only than) someone asks if we could not optimize the service a bit more, so the costs are reduced. Optimization and refactoring are essential parts of a development process, but are often suspended until there is no other way.
 
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It's like you don't read my post. I already said that Microsoft making Velocity Architecture so vague is a bad idea. DirectIO is limited in terms of the GPU's that supports it.
Yes but it's an api it's not silicon the ps5s io is actuall hardware immitating ram. The only hardware is the decompression block whether is the nvidia gpus or series x, they still suffer from latencies that ps5 doesn't mark cerny and epic games explained this. It's not just about having a ssd with a lot of bandwidth and a decompression block there's a lot of latencies in hardware that you have to remove. Until I see anything on series x similar to what I've seen on ps5 then I'll hang myself but until now all I've seen is a load of bullcrap nonestop fantastic marketing from Xbox.
 
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Mate the ssd on series x is simply a big marketing term the only hardware is the decompression silicon everything else is marketing we've seen This time and time again the medium has popin dirt 5 has popin control drops fps when streaming cyberpunk freezes and stutters when streaming all on series x you can say they aren't optimised but then again this games don't freeze stutter or drop fps whenever streaming on ps5, that ssd on series x has nothing out of the ordinary that pcs couldnt do, it's just the direct storage api that's missing on pc.

Microsoft know this and it's why they keep trying to save Face by talking about sampler feedback as a ram multiplier they just gave partial resident textures and virtual texturing a new name something that has existed since Xbox 360 rage. And even id software used on doom 2016 and removed it from doom eternal and also extensively used in almost all open world games... they knew they don't have the technology that's on the ps5 and all they could do was go on a marketing campaign to try and save their faces you see them shouting everyday about rdna 12 teraflops and velocity in every silicon show that's out there and not a single game to show for it. If that ssd was anything special you would have seen something. People are being fooled yet again by Microsoft

It's dejavu ive heard this before, when PS4 specs came out and showed to Be better than xbone they came out with another marketing campaign exact carbon copy to the current one back in 2014 they talked all year long about direct x 12 and tiled resources aka sampler feedback aka virtual texturing aka partial resident textures Jesus this demon has many names. Would shorten the gap with PS4 and oh my god it's 2021 and it never happened.
That's a perfect summary, thank you.
 

mejin

Member
It's dejavu ive heard this before, when PS4 specs came out and showed to Be better than xbone they came out with another marketing campaign exact carbon copy to the current one back in 2014 they talked all year long about direct x 12 and tiled resources aka sampler feedback aka virtual texturing aka partial resident textures Jesus this demon has many names. Would shorten the gap with PS4 and oh my god it's 2021 and it never happened.

This is so true I think they started to talk about the power of the cloud once again LMAO
 
People quickly forget things but I never forget microsofts marketing campaigns ever since the whole xbone marketing bollocks started in 2014 here's 2013 marketing talk about sfs, tiled resources, prt, virtual texturing, mega textures 🤣🤣🤣 microsofts best card whenever all else fails. It's the same stuff about 2.5x ram and bandwidth multiplier chatter

RIkVbVk.jpg


And here's 2021 sampler feedback campaign the same wolf in sheep skin the ol reliable Microsoft card
htsZpCt.jpg

gm9SV2H.jpg

I'll make sure to remind you again when ps6 and xboxxxxx come out in 5 years time god knows they'll have another branding name for virtual texturing whenever mark cerny makes anything alien with ps6.
 
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Allandor

Member
People quickly forget things but I never forget microsofts marketing campaigns ever since the whole xbone marketing bollocks started in 2014 here's 2013 marketing talk about sfs, tiled resources, prt, virtual texturing, mega textures 🤣🤣🤣 microsofts best card whenever all else fails. It's the same stuff about 2.5x ram and bandwidth multiplier chatter

RIkVbVk.jpg


And here's 2021 sampler feedback campaign the same wolf in sheep skin the ol reliable Microsoft card
htsZpCt.jpg

gm9SV2H.jpg

I'll make sure to remind you again when ps6 and xboxxxxx come out in 5 years time god knows they'll have another branding name for virtual texturing whenever mark cerny makes anything alien with ps6.


Tiled Resources (PRT in the first case) was a good tech, but not so good with HDDs. You had to package everything because else you would cripple the HDD bandwidth with it's really, really high latencies. PRT is all around loading just as much as you need, which leads to many small reads. Now with SSDs PRT is finally ready to be used, but SFS also takes care about some of the problems the original PRT had.

It is not like this technology is crap, it just wasn't so useful with HDDs. It is like with any new tech in GPUs, at first it is just more or less a case-study and with it's successors it get's useful.
 
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Tiled Resources (PRT in the first case) was a good tech, but not so good with HDDs. You had to package everything because else you would cripple the HDD bandwidth with it's really, really high latencies. PRT is all around loading just as much as you need, which leads to many small reads. Now with SSDs PRT is finally ready to be used, but SFS also takes care about some of the problems the original PRT had.

It is not like this technology is crap, it just wasn't so useful with HDDs. It is like with any new tech in GPUs, at first it is just more or less a case-study and with it's successors it get's useful.
I didn't say it's crap i said it's no where near to what ps5 is doing and microsofts are fooling people like idiots making them believe that it's some sort of secret sauce that's will close the gap to ps5. What's even more retarded is the fact that not only does ps5 have state of the art io architecture and the fastest bandwidths it also uses sampler feedback or prt. This even makes Microsoft look stupider.
 
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