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[Astral Dog]

I hope ND prioritizes framerate this time as well, as Insomniac does right now.

It would be cool(Last of Us is lovely running at 60fps)but if Naughty Dog wants to push the limits as far as they can, they will need to go for that 30fps limit, these are early gen games still. Gamers will want to look at the visuals and say 'thats a Naughty Gods game! ' and not just that it looks very good.

 

[GymWolf]

oh don't u VoRRy vRr will fix those frame dROps when it arRIVes...

Spoiler

Lol what the shit are those?

 

[DeepEnigma]

It wont hurt you to read a dictionary from time to time.

 

[geordiemp]

One thing alex Didnt explain enough or say, its not using voxel solution for the fog its using a full fluid simulation on the fog not the cheap voxel solutions like the one in gears 5. Its well worth noting fluid simulations need alot pf processing power and with all the particles and whats going on screen it does all this at 60fps. ID like to know how this guys and insomniac manage tp throw so much stuff on screen without breaking a sweat.!

This is fully fluid not static voxels

Everything you need to know about PS5 sci-fi shooter Returnal - This Month on PlayStation | PlayStation

Fight to break the cycle of chaos on a hostile, alien planet.

www.playstation.com

Yup there is some superb effects here.

Unfortunately you are also attracting the village idiot sniggers - dont worry he will grow up one day, McDonalds will be proud.

 

[Zoro7]

Sorry for hoping Sony’s premier studio would do a better job with the PS5…

Why the concern?
You don’t have a Ps5 and you don’t like this genre of game. Why the concern?

 

[Kuranghi]

This game has tons of alpha and particle effects, got to sacrifice resolution if you want 60fps + all that.

I think anyone who complains about them dropping res or framerate to achieve these effects, hasn't actually ever tried playing a PC game at native 4K@locked 60fps. This is using a GPU that costs £800 pre-shortage.

Even in a "last gen" game like RE8 alpha and depth of field effects destroy the framerate if you try to render them at native 4K, hence the reconstruction in the console versions.

 

[Md Ray]

I said ages ago and was laughed at, but 1080p 60 is the actual sweetspot for this generation.

It's realistically achievable with all the bells and whistles.

Good 1080p sets don't even need to worry about shitty scaling.

4k isn't ready yet in the console gaming world.

I agree with this. A straight-up 1080p output would look ridiculous on a 1440p/4K screen. But nothing wrong with an image quality reconstructed FROM 1080p to something like 1440p or 4K output when prioritizing higher quality visuals + frame rate. IIRC, DLSS performance mode does exactly that. Reconstructs from 1080p. If you use quality mode, it's 1440p.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

They locked it at 30 fps but the average resolution was <1440p, so that means it wasn't stable 1440p 30fps. The reason I mentioned CU is because it scales better with resolution than sheer frequency and in order to properly utilise them without a lot of work that's what you do first. So XSX will have a resolution advantage, but that doesn't mean PS5 will be worse off, it will simply target something other than pixel count in order to max the hw. Again, this isn't an XSX > PS5 discussion. The differences are too small.

Nah it scales worse than frequency (I recomand computerbase 6700xt review), first time read that ur5 demo was dynamic res with resolution below 1440p, source ?

 

[Calverz]

 

[Rikkori]

I don't know how many times I'm gonna have to say this but the UE5 demo was outputting a clean 4K image that was indistinguishable from native 4K and Digital Foundry couldn't even tell if it was upsampled 4K or native 4K until Epic told them it was running at a dynamic 1440p resolution with TAA upsampling to 4K. The final resolution output from that demo is 4K, which is what matters in the end. And Epic has already stated the demo has enough frame time left on PS5 to run at 4K@60FPS without making any optimizations to the 30FPS demo.

Inside Unreal Engine 5: how Epic delivers its generational leap

Epic's reveal of Unreal Engine 5 running in real-time on PlayStation 5 delivered one of the seismic news events of the …

www.eurogamer.net

This is next-gen: see Unreal Engine 5 running on PlayStation 5

We've seen the specs, we've heard the pitches - but what we haven't experienced is any demonstration of a genuine next-…

www.eurogamer.net

It doesn't matter how much you want it to be 'it's totally just like native 4k'. It isn't, it's

1440p most of the time

And tbh it was immediately obvious to me because it has the tell-tale signs of so many UE games with very blocky and pixelated particles when the res is below fixed 4K (and even then it isn't perfect). If the DF guys can't see it (or don't want to) I can only recommend they visit Specsavers next time they visit Richie. People who've played Gears 5 particularly can tell too, because it was a giant problem for that game too visually.

 

[DenchDeckard]

All this concern and negativity that people are spewing is actually making me want to buy the game. Some of my most favorite games were seen as low res and ragged for not being the "correct resolution" "last gen resolution" etc.

Heading home from work to watch the video. looking forward to it.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

This isn't a traditional CB method. This is closer to what other paradigms coming out in FFX, etc., than it is to the CB on the Pro.

But sure, for arguments sake, let's just call it CB, because we are going to split hairs and gosh forbit it ever encroaches on our bastion tech.

My original point still stands. It's funny to see those tripping over themselves for methods that produce a perceived and discernable clean as fuck 4K image, but not having to be native to do so, when they gloat about DLSS/FFX which is also taking an image that is not native, and cleaning it up to look native (Laymen's terms) to save on resources. Insecure mental gymnastics and all that gravy train.

What's interesting about that is: it was the console warriors/AMD fanboys constantly trying to downplay DLSS in NVIDIA threads. You won't really see PC gamers do that to console guys. We just know DLSS >>>>>>> all forms of CB.

I don't think there's really anyone against these techniques, unless your name is llien or Ascend.

But they definitely have different end results. Which is why DF then brought up the biggest gripe with the game, which is the visual quality.

 

[Dr Bass]

Nah it scales worse than frequency (I recomand computerbase 6700xt review), first time read that ur5 demo was dynamic res with resolution below 1440p, source ?

I remember reading that the UE5 demo actually used a fraction of the PS5's GPU power so ... not sure where it was ever said to be below 1440. I've never seen that either.

And even if it was are we now discounting how incredible that demo looked? Like would people actually think it sucks because it doesn't hit some specific number? What in the world is going on with gamers?

 

[Md Ray]

Lol what the shit are those?

It's from one of Alex Meyers's animations. Kinda going off-topic here, but I've been binge-watching all of his vids on YT lately, lol.

https://www.youtube.com/c/AlexMeyersVids/videos

 

[Astral Dog]

The visuals on screen in this game don't look all that next gen, I mean Ratchet looks a whole generation ahead of this.

Isn't this a rather small team compared to Insomniac? it looks great for what it is.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Resolution doesn't matter
Nobody can tell the difference
Good upscale better than native

I am doing it right folks?

 

[Reindeer]

Isn't this a rather small team compared to Insomniac? it looks great for what it is.

My point was about the game not really looking like a next gen game, but I would imagine the team is a lot smaller, plus they had no experience working on AAA project prior to this.

 

[SkylineRKR]

It would be cool(Last of Us is lovely running at 60fps)but if Naughty Dog wants to push the limits as far as they can, they will need to go for that 30fps limit, these are early gen games still. Gamers will want to look at the visuals and say 'thats a Naughty Gods game! ' and not just that it looks very good.

Its fine as long as they add a performance mode like Insomniac did with its PS5 games so far. On PS4 Pro games like Spider man didn't have that choice at all.

 

[DeepEnigma]

What's interesting about that is: it was the console warriors/AMD fanboys constantly trying to downplay DLSS in NVIDIA threads. You won't really see PC gamers do that to console guys. We just know DLSS >>>>>>> all forms of CB.

I don't think there's really anyone against these techniques, unless your name is llien or Ascend.

But they definitely have different end results. Which is why DF then brought up the biggest gripe with the game, which is the visual quality.

Yeah, fuck that shit too. I have always been on the CB Reconstruction/FFX/DLSS gravy train after seeing the end results. I even admitted several times on here before CB was shown, that I was a native purist from the PC gaming days, that non even integer scalers just don't cut it and provide a Vaseline like image.

After seeing all of these techniques in practice with games CB in HZD, UE5 demo where even DF and every other pixel counter could not tell the difference from native 4K or not, then games like Doom Eternal and the like with DLSS, I have been balls deep on the tech.

These techniques are the future for high fidelity "movie like" quality in gaming, especially if GI RT self shadowing AO everything is going to be thrown in the mix.

 

[Fbh]

DF thread.
About an exclusive
4 Pages in like 2 hours

Oh boy this will be good

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

There is no upscaling. It uses temporal reconstruction to 1440p, from there it's checkerboarded to 4K

There did not use any upscale from what DF says.
Temporal reconstruction created a full native 1440p image... not a upscalled one... the issues in most cases are the artifacts.

Upscaled and reconstructed are very often used interchangeably like in this case. It uses a taa upscale just like dlss is a taa upscale.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Yeah, fuck that shit too. I have always been on the CB Reconstruction/FFX/DLSS gravy train after seeing the end results. I even admitted several times on here before CB was shown, that I was a native purist from the PC gaming days, that non even integer scalers just don't cut it and provide a Vaseline like image.

After seeing all of these tequniques in practice with games CB in HZD, UE5 demo where even DF and every other pixel counter could not tell the difference from native 4K or not, then games like Doom Eternal and the like with DLSS, I have been all in balls deep on the tech.

These techniques are the future for high fidelity "movie like" quality in gaming, especially if GI RT self shadowing AO everything is going to be thrown in the mix.

That's why I've never understood the few people who hate the tech. I'll still take better performance with a miniscule, if not unnoticeable hit to visual quality, to maintain smooth buttery performance. VRR can only do so much for framedrops, and I would prefer to get the max performance, especially in games like this.

 

[Denton]

1080p upscaled, no image visible raytracing, and it drops framerate, all the while developed for single SKU..

This is surprising. Considering how pedestrian the game looks I genuinely thought it would be running in native 4K.

 

[itsjustJEFF]

Wait what? the only thing some of you took from that video was "1080p" Damn some you are real Warriors put the fanboy away. If these Graphics whores at DF love the way it looks you should be find with this as well.

If this game is 1080p "scaled up" to 4K and it looks this clean... fuck I'll take it.

Edit: I love the level of salt and bitterness I see on these forums LOL you guys really don't play video games huh some of you really just play the numbers

 

[abel empire]

This game has tons of alpha and particle effects, got to sacrifice resolution if you want 60fps + all that.

I think anyone who complains about them dropping res or framerate to achieve these effects, hasn't actually ever tried playing a PC game at native 4K@locked 60fps. This is using a GPU that costs £800 pre-shortage.

Even in a "last gen" game like RE8 alpha and depth of field effects destroy the framerate if you try to render them at native 4K, hence the reconstruction in the console versions.

They are just finding ways to hate on consoles as if they have infinite processing power on pc. 90 percent pf these guys on forums cusing about consoles have pcs that cant run half the games at 4k 30 they are always in forums cursing comsoles for running games at reconstructed 4k 60 jist for the sake of it. Its a cultural thing. Theyve done this so much wasted years and invested their careers on hating consoles that its too late now they are too old and u cant teach an old dog a new trick. Its too late to help them.

 

[DeepEnigma]

That's why I've never understood the few people who hate the tech. I'll still take better performance with a miniscule, if not unnoticeable hit to visual quality, to maintain smooth buttery performance. VRR can only do so much for framedrops, and I would prefer to get the max performance, especially in games like this.

The funny part is, 100% of the people would not notice the microscopic differences between native and non native from gaming distance whether it be PC monitor or couch gaming. They need the 300x zoom stills to see it. What a weird way to live life in gaming.

Agreed 100% about performance as well.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Doesn't change the fact that it doesn't look next gen. To me it looks like something that can easily be done on PS4Pro at 30fps or maybe upscaled 1080p60.

That doesn’t make any sense. Sure if you cut down do the point where it becomes an ugly version of what you have, affects the gameplay (30), and has half the stuff going on then yeah. Don’t forget the cpu...

And holding every game from every genre to the same type of standard is pretty unfair. By that token 95% games last gen could’ve run on a PS3 at 540p.

 

[abel empire]

1080p upscaled, no image visible raytracing, and it drops framerate, all the while developed for single SKU..

This is surprising. Considering how pedestrian the game looks I genuinely thought it was running in native 4K.

Is knowing the resolution whats irritating you or actually visibly seeing it as 4k cause i dont get the point here.? Does the final result matter or the way you get there. Of the image quality is 4k i couldnt give a monkeys ass if it was revonstructed from 100p or 0.1p to 4k. Resolutions dont matter anymore reconstruction is king on whatever platform.

 

[iHaunter]

Like I've said since the UE5 demo, PS5 is a 1080p 60 fps console, with rare exceptions in limited scenarios (like linear/semi-linear AAAA games).

ALL of the next-gen consoles are 1080p consoles. Do you think the 8% GPU increase on the XSX is going to change that?

Also isn't The Medium 756p?

 

[scydrex]

It doesn't matter how much you want it to be 'it's totally just like native 4k'. It isn't, it's

And tbh it was immediately obvious to me because it has the tell-tale signs of so many UE games with very blocky and pixelated particles when the res is below fixed 4K (and even then it isn't perfect). If the DF guys can't see it (or don't want to) I can only recommend they visit Specsavers next time they visit Richie. People who've played Gears 5 particularly can tell too, because it was a giant problem for that game too visually.

Is 4K native so important to some of you guys? If a 1440p DLSS 2.0 or 2.1 for example looks better than native 4k and better performance? Jesus... You make a conclusion on a engine that isn´t finish or anything. Epic said they will continue to optimize that engine. Are you a dev or something? 1080p 60fps RT with upscaling fine... does the game look bad on a 4k TV? From what i see and read no. Why do you continue with this pointless discussion? Who care what res is if it´s looks good on a 4k tv? Are you trolling or an Xbox fanboy?

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Game looks amazing and I think they made all the right decisions for this game's visual look and style. Based on the analysis, they found an Internal resolution of 1080p, but then the dev uses temporal reconstruction to bring it to 1440p, and then from there they checkerboard to get it up to 4K. The resolution matters much less compared to the final result on screen, which is damn impressive no matter how you slice it.

I don't have a single criticism of the game's visual appearance, and what was pointed out are things I wouldn't have noticed anyway. Even if by some chance I did, I wouldn't view them as flaws if that makes sense. I'm an oldschool gamer who recognized tricks or visual behaviors based of the various techniques used as important parts of a game's visual identity. Take, for example, the pre-rendered backgrounds in old ps1 final fantasy titles. I don't care how they did it, but it looked great. The same holds true here for me. You're on a weird and creepy ass planet with creatures with all kinds of tentacle like creatures coming at you. Who is going to stop to be like "hmm, that swaying grass in the fog there doesn't quite look 4K or very high res?" DF because of what they do must, but I as a gamer will not. I see that blur and would probably see it as an intentional visual element to play into the game's style and mood. Kinda like when you open doors you see ever so slightly see dust or fog spreading aside as if the door hadn't been opened in forever, or it's some kind of pressure seal.

Every decision works for the game's atmosphere. The game is an amazing technical showpiece for the PS5, so there's no wrong or inferior way to achieve what they achieved is how I see it. They got it done, and the results are fantastic. The primary reason these analysis exist should be to better educate us on how games did what they did, but more often than not they're for console wars and trolling. Everything they learned from this release about the console can now be applied to any future work they do, such as a sequel if it gets approved, and I'd be surprised if it doesn't. Even a spiritual successor of sorts with the same elements can work wonders. Can you guys imagine these dudes making an open world RPG that plays the way this one does? Either way, Housemarque now joins the big boys because that's what Returnal represents.

 

[XXL]

 

[VolticArchangel]

 

[Astral Dog]

Its fine as long as they add a performance mode like Insomniac did with its PS5 games so far. On PS4 Pro games like Spider man didn't have that choice at all.

I don't expect a performance mode (only Ray Tracing mode with lower resolution) because again Naughty Dog are known for pushing consoles to their limits even if its a PS5, but i may be wrong in the end just an assumption.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Resolution doesn't matter
Nobody can tell the difference
Good upscale better than native

I am doing it right folks?

Yup. That's the current language around these parts.

 

[Reindeer]

If these Graphics whores at DF love the way it looks you should be find with this as well.

.

 

[Freeman76]

The game is superb, they done good

 

[Neo_game]

This just proves people simply cannot tell resolution if the game has decent gfx. As some said quality of pixel matter more than number of pixels. Anyways they are small studio so you cannot expect them to compete against the best ones.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Well they need that because after the reviews the salty is real because they don't have anything to look or play in the near future.

I wouldn't believe what he said honestly. Xbox content creators or youtube pages have been praising the shit out of returnal. And where are you getting this idea from Xbox gamers have nothing to look forward to or play? Hyperbole my friend! Xbox is stacked for the next few months and coming years. It doesn't matter if some big releases are further out. We have many big releases that are coming this year and Game Pass keeps dropping more and more amazing stuff for us to play.

 

[Rikkori]

You should to a channel. Is 4K native so important to some of you guys? If a 1440p DLSS 2.0 or 2.1 for example looks better than native 4k and better performance? Jesus... You make a conclusion on a engine that isn´t finish or anything. Epic said they will continue to optimize that engine. Are you a dev or something?

Why y'all so mad about it tho? I said even 1080p looks good - but that doesn't make it 4K. Resolution alone doesn't dictate image quality.

 

[ethomaz]

I wouldn't believe what he said honestly. Xbox content creators or youtube pages have been praising the shit out of returnal. And where are you getting this idea from Xbox gamers have nothing to look forward to or play? Hyperbole my friend! Xbox is stacked for the next few months and coming years. It doesn't matter if some big releases are further out. We have many big releases that are coming this year and Game Pass keeps dropping more and more amazing stuff for us to play.

The forever waiting game lol

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

They are just finding ways to hate on consoles as if they have infinite processing power on pc. 90 percent pf these guys on forums cusing about consoles have pcs that cant run half the games at 4k 30 they are always in forums cursing comsoles for running games at reconstructed 4k 60 jist for the sake of it. Its a cultural thing. Theyve done this so much wasted years and invested their careers on hating consoles that its too late now they are too old and u cant teach an old dog a new trick. Its too late to help them.

Can you please explain in fine detail, where did Bill Gates, Steve Jobs,(what is a computer?), Or Gabe Newell touch you? You seem to roam around the forms with a constant anti PC attitude, and I'm really worried if it's PTSD. I just pray they didn't touch you with a SSD from over 10 years ago, and you just never recovered/seeked counseling.

 

[itsjustJEFF]

It's literally their job to analyse technical side of the game, it's what their channel is about. What kind of stupid comment is this? Or are you hurt that they pointed that out?

What? WTF are you talking about? Are you mad that they like the game? Cause I'm saying they liked the game.

Are you offended by the term "graphics whore" They love graphics, no shit it's their job, but they love graphics... and they loved the way the game looks. If these guys with high standards and a job specific to graphics loved the way it looked... then you a normal person should be pretty happy about this games looks. Bro, ease up. I'm still very confused at how you took my comment

 

[GymWolf]

I love how we’re so quick to judge a console’s future (6-8 years) only 5 months into the generation because a developer making their first AAA game’s (which looks amazing regardless) using a 1080p internal resolution base to output a dynamic 4K image, like any of you would’ve been able to tell the difference.

June can’t come soon enough lol.

You don't need a crystal ball to know that a 500 dollars machine with barely 10 tf can't sustain 4k60 for 6-8 years when a faaaar more powerfull 5000 pc can't run cyberpunk at 4k60, an "old gen" game...and if you don't like cyberpunk example, you have several older games that can't do that.

No amount of ssd secret sauce or good intentions is gonna change that, 4k60 is heavy AF.
And it is the same with Sex, this is not some console war bullshit, just the reality of facts.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Can you please explain in fine detail, where did Bill Gates, Steve Jobs,(what is a computer?), Or Gabe Newell touch you? You seem to roam around the forms with a constant anti PC attitude, and I'm really worried if it's PCSD. I just pray they didn't touch you with a SSD from over 10 years ago, and you just never recovered/seeked counseling.

FTFY

 

[SenjutsuSage]

This just proves people simply cannot tell resolution if the game has decent gfx. As some said quality of pixel matter more than number of pixels. Anyways they are small studio so you cannot expect them to compete against the best ones.

It has nothing to do with the size of their studio. Any other studio, to achieve this, would need to likely make the exact same decisions. They now know even more about the system and can find areas of opportunity to exploit to do even better next time. Small Studio, but the entire particle system used for the game isn't Unreal Engine based. They literally made that impressive shit themselves, so they are QUITE capable. There are some big studios that wouldn't have been able to make that particle system that they implemented in this game. They are officially right up there with the best studios due to this game in my view. In fact, they were already there, they just had smaller ambitions in terms of scale and scope. They've now risen those ambitions.

 

[Punished Miku]

Expect internal resolutions on both consoles to keep dropping as we get into next-gen games. But it's not really a problem if the devs can get good upscaling techniques in place. I would rather them cheat on resolution and provide us with more effects and better frame rate.

Me too, every time.

 

[Astral Dog]

Yeah, fuck that shit too. I have always been on the CB Reconstruction/FFX/DLSS gravy train after seeing the end results. I even admitted several times on here before CB was shown, that I was a native purist from the PC gaming days, that non even integer scalers just don't cut it and provide a Vaseline like image.

After seeing all of these techniques in practice with games CB in HZD, UE5 demo where even DF and every other pixel counter could not tell the difference from native 4K or not, then games like Doom Eternal and the like with DLSS, I have been balls deep on the tech.

These techniques are the future for high fidelity "movie like" quality in gaming, especially if GI RT self shadowing AO everything is going to be thrown in the mix.

And its gonna make a world of difference to the Switch, specially since it requires less resources for the low energy consumption tablet.

Really, Nintendo's low image quality issues finally erased with DLSS(and more processing power!) exciting times.

 

[Reindeer]

What? WTF are you talking about? Are you mad that they like the game? Cause I'm saying they liked the game.

Are you offended by the term "graphics whore" They love graphics, no shit it's their job, but they love graphics... and they loved the way the game looks. If these guys with high standards and a job specific to graphics loved the way it looked... then you a normal person should be pretty happy about this games looks. Bro, ease up. I'm still very confused at how you took my comment

My bad. I thought you were taking a swipe at DF for simply pointing out resolution of the game, which is their job.

 

[Epic Sax CEO]

This tittle makes no sense.
It's low resolution reconstructed and barely uses any RT.
Oh, the particles? Not really impressive when we know that this same studio was able to show almost as many particles in the PS4.
There's nothing here really "pushing" the PS5.