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[mckmas8808]

It will run better on PC than on PS5.

It should, being that the best PCs to build cost $2,000.

 

[Rea]

LOL, he fooled us.

Bo, actually he's not fooling anyone. What he stated was a fact. He never said this Demo can't run on PC. You were wrong to assume that. Nanite performance is still depends on assets streaming. But UE5 is multi plat engine, it will scale accordingly.

 

[SLB1904]

Ooohhh the ban hammer in this thread..

Yeah why people getting banned. I haven't see anything nasty

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Well, next big jump comes with DDR5 next year.
But I guess we won't see decompression-blocks on GPUs or CPUs soon. Much to "complicated" for an open architecture. This is nothing the CPU or GPU can't handle with the resources it has. Just increase those resources (more IPC, frequency, caches, ....) and you are good to go. And does not have the problem, that you have wasted area on the chip once another more effective compression tech arises. This is one of the advantages of the PC architecture vs fixed function units. If something new coming you can use it (if you have the power to use it ^^).
Also zlib, kraken or whatever is not always optimal for all cases. E.g. a build pipeline could dynamically go through different algorithms and use the best for the data it compresses. On consoles you are more or less "forced" to use the hw-supported compression tech, else you would waste resources.
That is also the reason why we don't have hardware decompression in PC hardware today. The idea is not new but in the open environment it would just be wasted DIE area.

Good points. But ZLIB or Kraken decompressors could run any kind of compression. Meaning ZLIB decompression on PS4 and XSX work well with Kraken, and I think all other kinds of compression methods. I think with how expensive graphics cards are they can have that in and free up the CPU.

For now nVidia what's to mimic PS5 i/o by brute forcing it's generous TF to make 14GB/s, how much that takes or is it better than a dedicated decompressor we'll see in the future. If it's good enough means less RAM is needed, I think.

Bo, actually he's not fooling anyone. What he stated was a fact. He never said this Demo can't run on PC. You were wrong to assume that. Nanite performance is still depends on assets streaming. But UE5 is multi plat engine, it will scale accordingly.

Yes, you can adjust the frame budget which they seem not offering to us lately. It was 20M polygons per frame which was like more than 4 polygons per pixel for 1440p, and it was floating at around 40's fps to have locked 30fps.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

There are no games that need super fast SSD right now because Microsoft DirectStorage only just came out in 2021.

So how are they developing the games that need fast storage on PC, or even console for that matter? They do have to test things and debug it, am I correct? Please let me know if I'm wrong, as PC would need to run these things before they branch off to consoles with "fast storage".

Do you see where I'm going with this....? Direct storage will help things, but PC's WITHOUT direct storage, were used to create R&C and hellblade 2 for instance.

They are not new to consoles. For xbox maybe but not for Playstation. I would say you could use ssd on ps3 but not sure.

You could use a SSD on Xbox 360, but that doesn't mean it utilizes it's potential.



ANYWAYS, let's get back on topic y'all. It's pointless to argue about obvious things that you guys will either choose to ignore or finally come to terms with.

 

[VFXVeteran]

So right now it's at a point like the 9.2TFLOP shenanigans. Two people already banned for the consistent FUD about the UE5 demo. This should be a warning to everyone to just cut this shit out and let things be.

I'm not going to waste time explaining anything about this demo anymore. I'm done with the PS5 > PC in UE5 demo argument.

 

[99Luffy]

So how are they developing the games that need fast storage on PC, or even console for that matter? They do have to test things and debug it, am I correct? Please let me know if I'm wrong, as PC would need to run these things before they branch off to consoles with "fast storage".

Do you see where I'm going with this....? Direct storage will help things, but PC's WITHOUT direct storage, were used to create R&C and hellblade 2 for instance.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Oh my bad, I forgot the engines and assets, and all the preliminary things, were created on the dev kits, not PC. My bad you stand correct /s

 

[staticshock]

Only question would be is: Aside from it running with extra RAM, how many devs will actually code their games for 32-64GB RAM's + 10-24GB VRAM's? UE5 can scale up and down easily, but even with empty maps and no trees/NPC's/bare-minimum logic the big boys (3090/6900XT) aren't showing perfect performance. Indeed, when they figure out how to make Nanite work with dynamic objects like trees/NPC's/etc that would be insane.

Also could mesh shaders/primitive shaders work on those Nanite-non-compatible characters/assets for better middle-ground?

I've discussed VFXVeteran before latest demo about how games designed around PS5 would just need extra 32-64GB (depending on storage speed) RAM to run, and I'm no expert at all. And seems it's the case here with UE5.

He just made himself a clown, really. Now even older hardware with enough RAM can run the demo, which is great news because that means multiplats won't be held back, or gaming in general. PS5 might be more efficient but that's only good for few years before PC's get ahead when 32-64GB RAM's are more common or when PCIe 5.0 hits. Also I think future graphics cards will have Kraken decompressors built in, if PS5DE at $400 can afford it, can't see it being an expensive thing, even if it's as powerful as 9x Zen2 cores.

Even with this latest admission. You are still spreading FUD though.

The demo doesn’t need 32-64 GB ram memory. This is one of the myths that Brian karis the creator of Nanite was trying to dispel.

1) The entire nanite data for the lumen in the land of nanite demo was 6.14 GB.

2) The entire nanite data for the Valley of the Ancient demo was a bit smaller than Land of Nanite demo.

3) However The entire texture data for Valley of the Ancient demo was a bit larger than Land of Nanite demo.

4) The compiled packaged demo of valley of the ancient is in the mid 20s GB compared to the 100 GB project file.

5) Valley of the ancient demo had more assets than Land of Nanite demo.

6) Valley of the ancient compiled version requires only 3 GB system ram and 7 GB VRAM.

This is basic math, logic and reason.
Land of the Nanite demo has similar requirements to Valley of the Ancient.

infact it will be less demanding because if you watched the entire stream Brian karis spent most of the time showing how unoptimized valley of the ancient was compared to Lumen in the land of Nanite.
Because of this Nanite will cost more.

Now this is the guy who created Nanite and have been working on this solo for like 20 or so (don’t remember).

All of you are saying he has no clue what he is talking about

 

[VFXVeteran]

Yeah why people getting banned. I haven't see anything nasty

Because they continue to push a false narrative.. mainly the PS5 SSD performance is greater than anything out there when it's been factually shown in a realworld scenario to mean nothing (GPU/CPU will ALWAYS be the limiting factor when all is in RAM). The narrative continues to get pushed in the SSD->VRAM = superior visuals and performance direction with a clear lack of knowledge in rendering and pipelines. The Sony warriors need to let it go and move on.

 

[Rea]

but PC's WITHOUT direct storage, were used to create R&C

R&C? Rachet and clank? Its not a PC game and the game engine is not multi platform engine like UE5.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Even with this latest admission. You are still spreading FUD though.

The demo doesn’t need 32-64 GB ram memory. This is one of the myths that Brian karis the creator of Nanite was trying to dispel.

The entire nanite data for the lumen in the land of nanite demo was 6.14 GB.

The entire nanite data for the Valley of the Ancient demo was a bit small than Land of Nanite demo.

The entire texture data for Valley of the Ancient demo was a bit larger than Land of Nanite demo.

The compiled packaged demo of valley of the ancient is in the mid 20s GB compared to the 100 GB project file.

Valley of the ancient demo had more assets than Land of Nanite demo.

Valley of the ancient required only 3 GB system ram and 7 GB VRAM.

This is basic math.
Land of the Nanite demo has similar requirements to Valley of the Ancient.

infact it will be less demanding because if you watched the entire stream Brian karis spent most of the time showing how unoptimized valley of the ancient was compared to Lumen in the land of Nanite.
Because of this Nanite will cost more.

Now this is the guy who created Nanite and have been working on this solo for like 20 or so (don’t remember).

All of you are saying he has no clue what he is talking about

I woke up with 80+ notifications, give me a break. I didn't watch the whole thing yet.

 

[Thedtrain]

So right now it's at a point like the 9.2TFLOP shenanigans. Two people already banned for the consistent FUD about the UE5 demo. This should be a warning to everyone to just cut this shit out and let things be.

I'm not going to waste time explaining anything about this demo anymore. I'm done with the PS5 > PC in UE5 demo argument.

guy... you're not a mod, IDK why you can't just ignore FUDers. If they have no platform they go away, simple as that. Once they get you mad they win.

 

[vpance]

That bicycle, damn

 

[IntentionalPun]

1) The entire nanite data for the lumen in the land of nanite demo was 6.14 GB.

2) The entire nanite data for the Valley of the Ancient demo was a bit smaller than Land of Nanite demo.

3) However The entire texture data for Valley of the Ancient demo was a bit larger than Land of Nanite demo.

4) The compiled packaged demo of valley of the ancient is in the mid 20s GB compared to the 100 GB project file.

So theoretically the Land of Nanite demo overall was smaller, or at least roughly the same size?

Really want to see an I/O speed counter on that Land of Nanite demo... at what point was it needing to pull much data into memory if it's entire size was likely less than 2x's the PS5's RAM?

 

[Balducci30]

Ok there it is - can we stop with the nonsense now. Why are people so committed to saying a $500 machine can do something better than a top of the line PC - it’s okay guys.

 

[hlm666]

Now this is the guy who created Nanite

Was a little surprised reading through this thread the amount of people who seemed to think the guy who made it didn't know what he was saying.

 

[M1chl]

Only question would be is: Aside from it running with extra RAM, how many devs will actually code their games for 32-64GB RAM's + 10-24GB VRAM's? UE5 can scale up and down easily, but even with empty maps and no trees/NPC's/bare-minimum logic the big boys (3090/6900XT) aren't showing perfect performance. Indeed, when they figure out how to make Nanite work with dynamic objects like trees/NPC's/etc that would be insane.

Also could mesh shaders/primitive shaders work on those Nanite-non-compatible characters/assets for better middle-ground?

Isn't the performance largery influenced with Lumen? I don't think that I/O in this sense is that stressed. But I might obviously be wrong.

 

[Reindeer]

Bo Hazem: You'll need 1 000 000 terabytes to run this demo.

Demo: ...

 

[Darwinning]

Who's been saying this demo was only possible on PS5? Epic has said since the beginning that it's available for nearly all platforms, even mobile, and is scalable. So that debate is over.

I think the point of "Lumen in the land of Nanite" being showcased explicitly on PS5 back in May 2020 is that it is likely the best performing version owing to the Storage system.

"Sony's storage system is absolutely world class," Sweeney says. "Not only the best-in-class on console, but also the best on any platform. Better than high-end PCs. I think it's going to enable the types of immersion that we could only have dreamed of in the past. The world of loading screens is over. The days of pop-in, geometry pop-in as you're going through game environments, are ended."

Timestamped:

 

[Endless Fluff]

So theoretically the Land of Nanite demo overall was smaller, or at least roughly the same size?

Really want to see an I/O speed counter on that Land of Nanite demo... at what point was it needing to pull much data into memory if it's entire size was likely less than 2x's the PS5's RAM?

Only the Nanite data was around 6GB. That is without textures (which he said were a bit more than the Nanite data) and other things, I don't remember him going into more detail about the size but it would surprise me if it was more than 25GB. The point was that people like our Bo here were spreading this stuff about the Land of Nanite demo being hundreds of GB in size, because all of this data and the 8K textures and stuff.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Only the Nanite data was around 6GB. That is without textures (which he said were a bit more than the Nanite data) and other things, I don't remember him going into more detail about the size but it would surprise me if it was more than 25GB. The point was that people like our Bo here were spreading this stuff about the Land of Nanite demo being hundreds of GB in size, because all of this data and the 8K textures and stuff.

I'm aware?

Did you read the post I quoted?

It stated the Land of Nanite data overall had slightly more geometry data, but less texture data.

So I was proposing that the size of the actual demo overall was probably the same or smaller than Valley of the Ancients.

It is a bit more "dense" in that it seems smaller overall area wise.. but it's hard to imagine the demo ever really needing high I/O due to the overall size. And if it did, it was barely here or there.. and a small amount of system RAM cache would compensate.

This is all great news for gamers though... UE5 looks amazing and doesn't really need insane data rates.

 

[Papacheeks]

Because they continue to push a false narrative.. mainly the PS5 SSD performance is greater than anything out there when it's been factually shown in a realworld scenario to mean nothing (GPU/CPU will ALWAYS be the limiting factor when all is in RAM). The narrative continues to get pushed in the SSD->VRAM = superior visuals and performance direction with a clear lack of knowledge in rendering and pipelines. The Sony warriors need to let it go and move on.

Nothing you are saying makes sense to what is happening in developing hardware currently? CHiplet design is being used to literally put 200mb of cache on the same dye as the cpu. This also combined with infinity cache and possible chiplet being used going forward for gpu's are designs specific for mitigating this issue of needing insane amounts of vram.

The whole point of the decrompressor chip and I/O solution in PS5 is to mitigate the need for insane amounts of vram and dedicated core usage off of the cpu for decompressing of data as it gets streamed to vram. The customizations creates a environment where the ssd is looked at as a giant pool of virtual memory that can cull in an instant to the vram/gpu.
RDN3 and 4 are going to have those similar designs. You will possibly see a seperate chip on these cpu/gpu's that literally will be used for such in the near future. The V-CACHE is a peek into this concept that will evolve over time with direct storage.

If you can't follow that then you have no clue wtf you are talking about. VRAM is a issue currently. Which is the reason the 3080ti literally is within a close enough percentage of being same cuda core count, and rendering capabilities compared to the 3090 which has double the vram.
VRAM especially custom GDDR6X is expensive to put on a board. The larger of stacks you go the more real-estate you require or new stacking ability similar to how HBM works in stacks of 4gb now in 16gb.

You think we are going to keep going beyond 16gb of memory for VRAM? GPU' PCB is going to be enormous, making cards hotter, larger and wont be able to get efficiency's we've been seeing in power draw. You cant keep shrinking in dye size but increasing memory and not still have issues with power phases that require a good amount of power.
Memory efficiency's is why NVME usage have skyrocketed in such a short amount of time. Bandwidth is king. Soon NVME/DYE cache/vram will have this effect in how they are being used across the industry. PS5 shows what you can do with focusing on those efficiency's.
These changes are happening not because of gaming. Imagine renders for films, projects being done in half the time at 4k-8k? ANd thats because of streaming those projects that get cached will have better flow and alleviate the VRAM needing to be enormous in render cards.

 

[N1tr0sOx1d3]

I've discussed VFXVeteran before latest demo about how games designed around PS5 would just need extra 32-64GB (depending on storage speed) RAM to run, and I'm no expert at all. And seems it's the case here with UE5.

He just made himself a clown, really. Now even older hardware with enough RAM can run the demo, which is great news because that means multiplats won't be held back, or gaming in general. PS5 might be more efficient but that's only good for few years before PC's get ahead when 32-64GB RAM's are more common or when PCIe 5.0 hits. Also I think future graphics cards will have Kraken decompressors built in, if PS5DE at $400 can afford it, can't see it being an expensive thing, even if it's as powerful as 9x Zen2 cores.

Is that possible? I may be wrong but I thought Sony had bought the company entirely…I may be incorrect.

 

[Gordon Freeman]

I would really love if they released a tech demo for this on PS5 for us to play with.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Hopefully, this lets people worry less about games being 10 terabyte or something.
The models in this demo had more texture maps and denser ones than the more recent demo which was created to be shared and tested..

Here is a link to the full stream.

Now I just watched the whole thing, this stream is 100x more impressive than both demos shown before. And fuck Tim Swiney.

This is insane that all things in there were only 6.14GB. This could literally run on HDD with 8GB RAM, not to mention VRAM.

I'm 100x more impressed by this stream than anything, and fuck them for making the first demo sound like an Icarus dream. We could easily see many games look exactly like that in the future, even with foliage as the savings on rigid surfaces leave a lot of headroom.

Apologies to everyone here for the unintentional misinformation that I was fed from those clowns at Epic and now acting as if they didn't say some hyperbole shit.

Is that possible? I may be wrong but I thought Sony had bought the company entirely…I may be incorrect.

RAD TOOLS were bought by Epic Games recently, Sony only licensed it for PS5/4 devs to use them for free instead of paying that themselves.

 

[VFXVeteran]

The whole point of the decrompressor chip and I/O solution in PS5 is to mitigate the need for insane amounts of vram and dedicated core usage off of the cpu for decompressing of data as it gets streamed to vram. The customizations creates a environment where the ssd is looked at as a giant pool of virtual memory that can cull in an instant to the vram/gpu.
RDN3 and 4 are going to have those similar designs. You will possibly see a seperate chip on these cpu/gpu's that literally will be used for such in the near future. The V-CACHE is a peek into this concept that will evolve over time with direct storage.

No argument there. We just don't have the software to utilize it so why debate about it's merits when it's not used in current games.

If you can't follow that then you have no clue wtf you are talking about.

Dude, don't start this bullshit.

VRAM is a issue currently. Which is the reason the 3080ti literally is within a close enough percentage of being same cuda core count, and rendering capabilities compared to the 3090 which has double the vram.
VRAM especially custom GDDR6X is expensive to put on a board. The larger of stacks you go the more real-estate you require or new stacking ability similar to how HBM works in stacks of 4gb now in 16gb.

I agree that VRAM is a problem. But it will continue to increase from generation to generation. That's the natural cycle of evolution of tech.

You think we are going to keep going beyond 16gb of memory for VRAM?

Yes, I do.

GPU' PCB is going to be enormous, making cards hotter, larger and wont be able to get efficiency's we've been seeing in power draw. You cant keep shrinking in dye size but increasing memory and not still have issues with power phases that require a good amount of power.
Memory efficiency's is why NVME usage have skyrocketed in such a short amount of time. Bandwidth is king. Soon NVME/DYE cache/vram will have this effect in how they are being used across the industry. PS5 shows what you can do with focusing on those efficiency's.
These changes are happening not because of gaming. Imagine renders for films, projects being done in half the time at 4k-8k? ANd thats because of streaming those projects that get cached will have better flow and alleviate the VRAM needing to be enormous in render cards.

You are losing sight of the grand picture. I've said this over and over and over again.

1) Data in RAM negates the need for SSD->VRAM. Even if it's DDR4 RAM->VRAM. But that doesn't mean devs will opt to ignore that problem at all. So I'm saying SSD->VRAM is absolutely wonderful! And it gets around the bottleneck of conventional I/O. We don't need to discuss that to death anymore.

2) SSD->VRAM will be awesome and will be utilitized for sure. But it's NEVER going to add performance to the GPU. ONCE the data is in RAM, we will still have rendering triangles as our main concern long after this DirectStorage and SSD->VRAM pipeline is put in place.


Lastly, I'm honestly very tired of this discussion.

The hardware innovations will come but the software development will lag behind it. We've had RT for a couple of years now and we can count how many games utilize it with our fingers.

I don't care about the amount of work that went into the PS5/XSX/RTX hardware. What I care about is what the developers can do with it. And right now, all the theoretical stuff just makes for a good argument which I no longer want to be apart of.

 

[VFXVeteran]

I'm 100x more impressed by this stream than anything, and fuck them for making the first demo sound like an Icarus dream. We could easily see many games look exactly like that in the future, even with foliage as the savings on rigid surfaces leave a lot of headroom.

Apologies to everyone here for the unintentional misinformation that I was fed from those clowns at Epic and now acting as if they didn't say some hyperbole shit.

Bo, you are the one looking like a fool man. You literally KNOW how this shit works (marketing)! Devs did the same shit last gen! Haven't you learned from that???

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Bo, you are the one looking like a fool man. You literally KNOW how this shit works (marketing)! Devs did the same shit last gen! Haven't you learned from that???

You're really overestimating my knowledge/experience. I'm just a simple gamer. Never followed anything about tech in gaming until I signed up here last year.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

You're really overestimating my knowledge/experience. I'm just a simple gamer. Never followed anything about tech-related in gaming until I signed up here last year.

The lesson is
If someone is selling you something, never take their information at face value.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Now, how the fuck is this any different from the nvidia mesh shading demo? Could someone explain? From what I understood here that they made "Nanite" versions of those so-called "billions" of triangles. So in theory they're already pre-meshed to make a 6GB file, right?

 

[harmny]

Now I just watched the whole thing, this stream is 100x more impressive than both demos shown before. And fuck Tim Swiney.

This is insane that all things in there were only 6.14GB. This could literally run on HDD with 8GB RAM, not to mention VRAM.

I'm 100x more impressed by this stream than anything, and fuck them for making the first demo sound like an Icarus dream. We could easily see many games look exactly like that in the future, even with foliage as the savings on rigid surfaces leave a lot of headroom.

Apologies to everyone here for the unintentional misinformation that I was fed from those clowns at Epic and now acting as if they didn't say some hyperbole shit.



RAD TOOLS were bought by Epic Games recently, Sony only licensed it for PS5/4 devs to use them for free instead of paying that themselves.

Look. I appreciate what you are doing but If you are going to apologize just sincerely apologize and move on.

What you are doing right now is deflecting and blaming epic. "I apologize for being a victim of the misinformation I got from these clowns at epic" what is that? You were the one acting blind not epic.

I saw the same videos. Read the same articles. And never once I got all that as "only ps5 can run this demo". Epic didn't lie or mislead anyone.

There is a difference between

"I'm sorry I was wrong"
And
"I'm sorry I was wrong because these clowns lied to me. I'm just a victim"

 

[SLB1904]

So how are they developing the games that need fast storage on PC, or even console for that matter? They do have to test things and debug it, am I correct? Please let me know if I'm wrong, as PC would need to run these things before they branch off to consoles with "fast storage".

Do you see where I'm going with this....? Direct storage will help things, but PC's WITHOUT direct storage, were used to create R&C and hellblade 2 for instance.


You could use a SSD on Xbox 360, but that doesn't mean it utilizes it's potential.



ANYWAYS, let's get back on topic y'all. It's pointless to argue about obvious things that you guys will either choose to ignore or finally come to terms with.

the things you say really blow my mind.

you know very well that im not talking about external SSD. which was limited by the USB 2.0 on xbox360. oh will you look at that, the usb 2.0 is a bottleneck for external ssds on Xbox 360.
who would've thought

 

[CrustyBritches]

I ran the Valley of the Ancients demo a few times with Windows Resource Manager open on Disk I/O. The highest I saw it was during the initial run was 190MB/s, then it seemed like every time I closed it and ran it again it had less and less disk i/o. The frame rate and loading sequences get smoother each pass, as well.

Gonna try a more specialized program for measuring active disk i/o and confirm the results later.

 

[MonarchJT]

OK guys. At this point, I would ask the mods to shut you up. It's THAT ridiculous.

Not only did you ignore the author of the technique about this demo and explanations about the hardware and it's limits, you are continuously trying to push an agenda even AFTER the author of the technique tells you otherwise. First it was a demo only made for PS5 because of it's sole piece of SSD->VRAM pipeline and no other hardware could render the demo. Then when the recent demo comes out, it's "well that demo was scaled down to work on PC/XSX". Now it's "well the author doesn't play the entire compiled out demo with FX in the video so he hasn't proven anything".

To the non-Sony warriors, it's not worth arguing page after page after page with these guys' PS5 superiority train. They will spin anything and everything to not admit they were being too fanboyish and needed to come back to earth in 2021.

the i/o SSD spin was done because it was the only way to make the console somehow special in the eyes of fanboys.

the denial of reality should make us understand how much marketing works and above all this show how indoctrinated a certain subset of users is.

 

[Papacheeks]

No argument there. We just don't have the software to utilize it so why debate about it's merits when it's not used in current games.


Dude, don't start this bullshit.


I agree that VRAM is a problem. But it will continue to increase from generation to generation. That's the natural cycle of evolution of tech.


Yes, I do.


You are losing sight of the grand picture. I've said this over and over and over again.

1) Data in RAM negates the need for SSD->VRAM. Even if it's DDR4 RAM->VRAM. But that doesn't mean devs will opt to ignore that problem at all. So I'm saying SSD->VRAM is absolutely wonderful! And it gets around the bottleneck of conventional I/O. We don't need to discuss that to death anymore.

2) SSD->VRAM will be awesome and will be utilitized for sure. But it's NEVER going to add performance to the GPU. ONCE the data is in RAM, we will still have rendering triangles as our main concern long after this DirectStorage and SSD->VRAM pipeline is put in place.


Lastly, I'm honestly very tired of this discussion.

The hardware innovations will come but the software development will lag behind it. We've had RT for a couple of years now and we can count how many games utilize it with our fingers.

I don't care about the amount of work that went into the PS5/XSX/RTX hardware. What I care about is what the developers can do with it. And right now, all the theoretical stuff just makes for a good argument which I no longer want to be apart of.

Well right now Sony has uses of this as seen with how assets load in Ratchet. This will continue later on as projects from other studios get larger and more ambitious. Right now it's PC that lags in hardware to do the same thing Sony's customizations are doing.

If a production studio could have these types of workflows in something like NVIDIA'S GRID servers I can tell you productin houses i use to intern for that were under Paramount contracts would not have been as crazy in what they were using and would negate needing large NAS storage for alot of raw video/graphics being used.

I can tell you with a certain company I work with that these things are being talked about in what they build for Broadcast because of ATSC 3.0 standards being crazy. Company we work with is a large company that makes Broadcast equipment for all in one solutions in NEWS VIDEO management systems, Master Control, and News graphic systems.

I talk with their engineers on a weekly basis just to chit chat, and they all agree that the future is not the amount of VRAM, or memory. These customizations and speeds of I/O solutions with chips dedicated on the chiplet design will be the future for workflows.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

I saw the same videos. Read the same articles. And never once I got all that as "only ps5 can run this demo". Epic didn't lie or mislead anyone.

Agreed. I'm a massive Sony fan but even I saw this and said it at the time and I was jumped on. A lot of people were.

They were ran out of threads by a group of Sony fans who DIDN'T UNDERSTAND but tried to talk down to people like they did understand. geordie, etc.

Now is the time to move on but that group were exhibiting the Dunning-Kruger effect and thinking they were geniuses. They also disappeared now. Except Bo who MANNED up and admitted his misunderstanding.

This coming gen is going to be fucking AWESOME and what Bo said is so true. If this is what we can see with 6gb of assets, this gen is going to be fucking FIRE. Great gaming days ahead.

 

[martino]

the i/o SSD spin was done because it was the only way to make the console somehow special in the eyes of fanboys.

this should show how indoctrinated a certain subset of users is.

they are indoctriment on all side
depends on the ending you want red, green or blue !

 

[MonarchJT]

I ran the Valley of the Ancients demo a few times with Windows Resource Manager open on Disk I/O. The highest I saw it was during the initial run was 190MB/s, then it seemed like every time I closed it and ran it again it had less and less disk i/o. The frame rate and loading sequences get smoother each pass, as well.

Gonna try a more specialized program for measuring active disk i/o and confirm the results later.

now just imagine to triple the quality of assets and everything else and need 3 times that I / O and we are still well below the maximum performance peak of a mediocre SSD .... this is to understand the level of idiocy reached by some. But but but the quality of assets ...my ass ))

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Look. I appreciate what you are doing but If you are going to apologize just sincerely apologize and move on.

What you are doing right now is deflecting and blaming epic. "I apologize for being a victim of the misinformation I got from these clowns at epic" what is that? You were the one acting blind not epic.

I saw the same videos. Read the same articles. And never once I got all that as "only ps5 can run this demo". Epic didn't lie or mislead anyone.

There is a difference between

"I'm sorry I was wrong"
And
"I'm sorry I was wrong because these clowns lied to me. I'm just a victim"

Epic CEO Tim Sweeney says the PS5 is so impressive it’s ‘going to help drive future PCs’

Epic and Sony have been working closely together, and Sweeney is impressed.

www.theverge.com

PS5 Storage Speed 'Overall Performance Much Higher Than PC,' Says Tim Sweeney - PlayStation Universe

Epic's Tim Sweeney has offered further insight as to why the PS5 storage speed is superior to tech available on PC.

www.psu.com

PS5 Storage Outclasses Anything Available on PC: Tim Sweeney - ExtremeTech

The PlayStation 5's storage solution is supposedly better than anything on the PC market. Even if true, that's a great thing for PC gaming.

www.extremetech.com

PS5’s SSD Ahead Of Even “Best” Current High-End PCs, Says Tim Sweeney

gamingbolt.com

Yes, I'm to blame now, right?

 

[IntentionalPun]

Look. I appreciate what you are doing but If you are going to apologize just sincerely apologize and move on.

What you are doing right now is deflecting and blaming epic. "I apologize for being a victim of the misinformation I got from these clowns at epic" what is that? You were the one acting blind not epic.

I saw the same videos. Read the same articles. And never once I got all that as "only ps5 can run this demo". Epic didn't lie or mislead anyone.

There is a difference between

"I'm sorry I was wrong"
And
"I'm sorry I was wrong because these clowns lied to me. I'm just a victim"

Sweeney specifically went out of his way to exaggerate though; and really he outright lied.

But people who know of him know he's a shady asshole, so it's not surprising lol.. he absolutely does despise MS, and has always praised Sony.. and was selling part of his company to them.

The actual info out about UE5 was contradictory to his exaggerations though.. the devs focused on how efficient and scalable it all was, while Sweeney tried to stress the need for high I/O.

Also just the basic logic of "you can't really utilize 5.5GB/second often w/o using way too much drive space" never really had me fully believing the BS myself.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Sweeney specifically went out of his way to exaggerate though; and really he outright lied.

But people who know of him know he's a shady asshole, so it's not surprising lol.. he absolutely does despise MS, and has always praised Sony.. and was selling part of his company to them.

The actual info out about UE5 was contradictory to his exaggerations though.. the devs focused on how efficient and scalable it all was, while Sweeney tried to stress the need for high I/O.

Also just the basic logic of "you can't really utilize 5.5GB/second often w/o using way too much drive space" never really had me fully believing the BS myself.

Faster I/O throughput would still be beneficial, just like faster RAM, faster bandwidth, faster VRAM. But the mofo made it sound impossible outside PS5, which actually was worrisome for multiplats and how many games would take full advantage of PS5 outside 1st party.

Now I'm actually much more happy with this new stream, as it's clearing shit out, and photorealism in gaming is more than just "possible" but would be the norm in the next few years for games that are using realistic setups. Of course it'll work great with art style and other stuff.

 

[MonarchJT]

Epic CEO Tim Sweeney says the PS5 is so impressive it’s ‘going to help drive future PCs’

Epic and Sony have been working closely together, and Sweeney is impressed.

www.theverge.com

PS5 Storage Speed 'Overall Performance Much Higher Than PC,' Says Tim Sweeney - PlayStation Universe

Epic's Tim Sweeney has offered further insight as to why the PS5 storage speed is superior to tech available on PC.

www.psu.com

PS5 Storage Outclasses Anything Available on PC: Tim Sweeney - ExtremeTech

The PlayStation 5's storage solution is supposedly better than anything on the PC market. Even if true, that's a great thing for PC gaming.

www.extremetech.com

PS5’s SSD Ahead Of Even “Best” Current High-End PCs, Says Tim Sweeney

gamingbolt.com

Yes, I'm to blame now, right?

we all did read Tim....just you was trusting his lie

 

[IntentionalPun]

Faster I/O throughput would still be beneficial, just like faster RAM, faster bandwidth, faster VRAM. But the mofo made it sound impossible outside PS5, which actually was worrisome for multiplats and how many games would take ful advantage of PS5 outside 1st party.

Now I'm actually much more happy with this new stream, as it's clearing shit out, and photorealism in gaming is more than just "possible" but would be the norm in the next few years for games that are using realistic setups. Of course it'll work great with art style and other stuff.

For sure; the insane I/O will provide a ton of flexibility for devs.

They won't have to do anywhere near the amount of optimization of scenes, can just sort of do what they want..

... within the reasonable space they can use on the drive itself lol

 

[Bo_Hazem]

we all did read Tim....just you was trusting his lie

Didn't know his hobby is being a clown aside from being a professional CEO and founder of Epic Games and Unreal Engine. Extremely unprofessional and disgusting.

 

[sinnergy]

It’s pretty smart all, they basically benchmark what a gpu can draw , triangle wise and max that out(all the time ) per Frame/view . To add , old quadro cards could reach these numbers, so It should run on a bit older cards also.

 

[ABnormal]

It will run better on PC than on PS5.

It will render the image better on pc proportionally to the power of the gpu, and when large assets are streamed like in the diving session of the old demo, it will load them at full detail better on ps5 proportionally to the capacity of the I/O interface. When there will be SSDs speedy enough to overcame the bottleneck-free I/O of ps5 (or when a pc gamer will use tons of ram to load the game entirely in it), PCs will have the edge in that also.
It's just mathematics. As of now, if you don't use huge quantities of ram, I/Os on pc are not able to reach the same speed (which is not the simple speed of the ssd, but the whole speed made possible by eliminating I/O bottlenecks).
Obviously, rendering is always on sceen, while intensive use of I/O is used only when needed and only if a developer creates something that requires it.

 

[SLB1904]

the i/o SSD spin was done because it was the only way to make the console somehow special in the eyes of fanboys.

the denial of reality should make us understand how much marketing works and above all this show how indoctrinated a certain subset of users is.

dude. how can you downplay the ps5 i/o SSD? are you for real? seriously can you stop and think ps5 SSD speed is not a big deal. and you have the nerve to call the others fanboy. when everything you are doing is downplay this:

compare to this:
i would post gif but it wont fit



i mean you get it. remember bloodborne?

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

Didn't know his hobby is being a clown aside from being a professional CEO and founder of Epic Games and Unreal Engine. Extremely unprofessional and disgusting.

This was yesterday. Tim Sweeny is a long time liar/hype man.

ps. Calling people like Cerny, Sweeney and the Epic's team liars about the PS5's UE5 demo used to be not the done thing here around the time of launch. Surely they are entitled to professional respect, and to be trusted unless you have proof, no?

Hahahaha Tim Sweeny is entitled to eat my ass and that's about it. I'm indifferent about Cerny, I believe him as much as anyone who is selling me a product.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

This was yesterday. Tim Sweeny is a long time liar/hype man.

Won't put him in the same page as Mark Cerny, far from that. The I/O throughput is still great and important, but for UE5 it's not as critical as they made it sound like.

Anyone downplaying I/O throughput should also downplay bandwidth, RAM speeds, VRAM speeds. It's currently more important with other engines, but it'll get less critical when other engines catch up.