I don't think it is unless you believe it's going to impact game design but i don't
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Sony open up M2 SSD port to beta testers of system software
- Thread starter cormack12
- Start date
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
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Topher
Gold Member
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Hmmm, I hope this does not affect performance of games. I wouldnt want hitching or anything and Sony to just be like..."it's the drive you need to put it on the internal for it to work correctly"
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
I know I'm a bit slow, but I can't seem to find which would be the best heatsink that will fit over a drive like the SN850 and meet the requirements unless I buy some cheap super thin laptop size heat sink? I was going to buy https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B073RHHYCM/?tag=neogaf0e-20 , but, the dimensions for just the cooler are:
I'd be mounting this on an SN850 which, when I bought it, didn't have the built in heatsink option, and has L: 80.15mm W: 2.38mm X H: 22.15mm
I'm gathering, there's no way this will work out. If that's the case, I have no idea what heat sink to get.
I'd be mounting this on an SN850 which, when I bought it, didn't have the built in heatsink option, and has L: 80.15mm W: 2.38mm X H: 22.15mm
I'm gathering, there's no way this will work out. If that's the case, I have no idea what heat sink to get.
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Hey, I was one of those hoping for 5GB/s. I'll take it. While some are sitting in here 'concerned' as to why it isnt 7GB/s, I'm just excited it can be cheaper.
Just ordered this one this morning. Cant wait to test it.This WD SN850 (without/with heatsink) will fit inside just fine. 7 GB/s read.
$120/$140 for 500 GB
$200/$250 for 1TB
$400/$430 for 2TB
5 year warranty.
Can always just add a 3rd party heatsink for $10 off Amazon if buying the naked model.
Seems like the best option.
WD_BLACK™ SN850 NVMe™ SSD PCIe® Gen4 for PC or Laptop | Western Digital | Western Digital Store
Long load times are obsolete with next-gen PCIe® Gen4 technology. Arm your system with RGB lighting, an optional heatsink model, and up to 2TB1 capacity.shop.westerndigital.com
They are allowing off the shelf drives.......I know you cant possibly think its lazy. C'mon.
Look at how much info that gave for different size heat sinks....and many of us called it due to the depth of the internal slot that big heat sinks could be possible.
I just realized....this is all part of the beta tests. They might actually have a list after testing is done. We shall see.
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Topher
Gold Member
Why? The SSD functionality is in beta.
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DaGwaphics
Member
They would always have to put that disclaimer in there. There is always that chance that you buy a drive with specs listed on the package that aren't delivered in a real-world scenario (crap controller, etc.). It's normal for drives with near identical specs to have completely different performance profiles from each other under heavy load.
Sitting here, I was thinking are there any PCIe 4 drives thats 5GB/s? I just found one:
Not sure is someone posted this already but yeah......I'll take it. Easily.
Not sure is someone posted this already but yeah......I'll take it. Easily.
I just remembered these posts. I'll still leave mine here but yeah....I guess 5GB/s isnt all you will need to know.
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Justin9mm
Member
We will find out in due course
captainraincoat
Banned
I said it on the first teardown vid last year
Sony nail the specs of a console but fail on the design on many levels….I’m keen to hear the feedback on the noise of the ps5 with the drive in
kyliethicc
Member
This one would work fine. Easiest is the 1 sided heatsinks. Anything under 8mm thick can go on top of a naked M.2 SSD and fit.I know I'm a bit slow, but I can't seem to find which would be the best heatsink that will fit over a drive like the SN850 and meet the requirements unless I buy some cheap super thin laptop size heat sink? I was going to buy https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B073RHHYCM/?tag=neogaf0e-20 , but, the dimensions for just the cooler are:
I'd be mounting this on an SN850 which, when I bought it, didn't have the built in heatsink option, and has L: 80.15mm W: 2.38mm X H: 22.15mm
I'm gathering, there's no way this will work out. If that's the case, I have no idea what heat sink to get.
Amazon.com: icepc M.2 PCI-E NVME 2280 SSD Graphene Coating Copper Heatsink,High Performance SSD Radiator with Thermal Pad for Laptop PC 2280 NGFF Solid State Disk Cooler(70x20x4mm): Computers & Accessories
Buy icepc M.2 PCI-E NVME 2280 SSD Graphene Coating Copper Heatsink, High Performance SSD Radiator with Thermal Pad for Laptop PC 2280 NGFF Solid State Disk Cooler(70x20x4mm): Heatsinks - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
www.amazon.com
Honestly best to let others buy and try before we do. Wait and see what fits.
ZywyPL
Banned
It depends what Sony means by "performance" - if for example switching between the worlds in R&C takes a bit longer, who will really care? But if that means you can get into a scenario when you're rotating the camera and the textures or even entire assets aren't there, then that will be a serious issue.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
This is what I am thinking about, what happens if we get hitching and textures failing to load etc.
RaySoft
Member
Maybe the adoptionrate for qualified M2's is under par than Sony had hoped, and since storage capacity is getting more urgent by the minute, they landed on a solution that splits the internal SSD from the M2 and treats them as separate drives. The M2 will handle most games, but for some firstparty games (in a few years time) may require to be installed on the internal SSD to run, since they can always guarantee the throughput on that drive, but not for the M2 one.Yeah Cerny said we needed >5.5GB/s ones, and it seems Sony have backtracked on this requirement. I wonder what could be the reasons now?
This is the only reason I can se for them to recommend a minimum sequential read speed, rather than require it.
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
Thanks! I saw that one and was debating whether to get it. Not sure whether to get the 2mm or 4mm pad version. I would guess the 2mm, but, not sure if both fit regardless. I'm assuming that either would fit based on the small dimensions.
I also agree about the try before buy. I'll wait and see if some beta tester information on it becomes available.
Blond
Banned
Yeah, games that have 0 loading like Miles, Returnal or RE8 that has an actual screen and wait time on SX is no difference.
that’s a bad thing how? It’s not a raid setup.
Andodalf
Banned
Of course there isn’t. Only rabbid fanboys tried to convince themselves that there was any effective cooling getting there
I bet you are save with the minimum spec provided .. it streams to ram first before a game needs it.
Jibran#one
Member
If the faq mentioned heatsink ,I think ur going to need one .
Unlike the rabid fanboys thinking it ....needs..... a heat sink.
I have yet to see anywhere that states it....needs....a heatsink.
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They should have made the cover on the ssd slot the heatsink like some pc motherboards do, put your bare ssd in peel the plastic off the pre mounted thermal pad on the cover/heatsink plug it on and off to the races you go. Its harder for people to screw up that way.
kyliethicc
Member
I think the 4 mm would work fine. A M.2 drive is less than 1 mm thick. Total space inside is over 11 mm, with 8 mm above the drive.
As Sony shows here, a M.2 drive naked is 0.8 mm thick. Then you can add up to 8 mm on top for a heatsink and it'll fit.
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What other "cooling structure" are people going to use? Sony says you require one, like a heatsink. So sure they say you need a cooling structure and not a heatsink but I mean holy fucking semantics batman.
I forsee many PS5s dying because people "don't need" heatsinks.
This was far messier than I expected.
This has potential for lulz.
ALSO if you're one of those sick fucks that like the kink by jamming your PS5 into a tight box with a closed side FRONT OR BACK now is the time to not fuck around with the fact that sony states you need ONE INCH ALL AROUND clearance for you PS5 to operate optimally without fucking itself thermally. Now isn't the time to be stupid and to realize that if you're jamming the PS5 into a close front environment the AMBIENT AIR that is being sucked into the FRONT is going to STILL BE WARM AIR and not fresh cool air the machine requires. Also in a closed box, the AMBIENT AIR that is coming up off the CPU is still being ventilated into the machine, there have already been a few "why is my PS5 showing artifacts and locking up threads" around, there'll be more to come. It's an expensive machine, treat it right.
Just listen to that advice...
But I think I'll just sit back and watch all the rage when people tell me that the PS5 is "better at cooling" so it doesn't need to be placed in an area that Sony itself tells you to place it.
This was far messier than I expected.
This has potential for lulz.
ALSO if you're one of those sick fucks that like the kink by jamming your PS5 into a tight box with a closed side FRONT OR BACK now is the time to not fuck around with the fact that sony states you need ONE INCH ALL AROUND clearance for you PS5 to operate optimally without fucking itself thermally. Now isn't the time to be stupid and to realize that if you're jamming the PS5 into a close front environment the AMBIENT AIR that is being sucked into the FRONT is going to STILL BE WARM AIR and not fresh cool air the machine requires. Also in a closed box, the AMBIENT AIR that is coming up off the CPU is still being ventilated into the machine, there have already been a few "why is my PS5 showing artifacts and locking up threads" around, there'll be more to come. It's an expensive machine, treat it right.
Just listen to that advice...
But I think I'll just sit back and watch all the rage when people tell me that the PS5 is "better at cooling" so it doesn't need to be placed in an area that Sony itself tells you to place it.
I'm sure digital foundry will have this video up super quick.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
I can get the 1tb 980 Pro for 199 off shop Samsung so that seems like a much better deal than the Western Digital.
Aenima
Member
Unless the game sizes start balloning like malware called COD. I will probably not even buy a expansion SSD. My habit of deleting games after i finish them has keep my PS5 storage with more than half of storage space available.
But will be interesting to see what option will i have in a few years. Right now 200$ for a expansion is way too much for me. Good thing they using 3rd party PC parts so hopefully the prices will lower faster.
But will be interesting to see what option will i have in a few years. Right now 200$ for a expansion is way too much for me. Good thing they using 3rd party PC parts so hopefully the prices will lower faster.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Uh, didn't they say you needed a 7 GB/s drive in order to make up for overhead? Why are they now saying the minimum is 5.5 GB/s instead?
Anyway it's been a long-ass time for them to get around to this, guessing it'll be available for the all owners by early Fall, like mid-late September or maybe a bit earlier.
That's probably because they're taking other factors into account that could vary negatively for 3P drives: access latency, random 4KB block read, random 4KB write, even sequential write speed, etc. You can have a way faster drive at sequential reads but worst statistics in those and other areas.
Even so, knowing those possible variances I'm a bit surprised Sony are allowing PS5 owners to kind of fend for themselves with expanding their internal storage. Feels like they did enough testing and realized it's impossible to ensure probably even a handful of 3P SSDs fit the exact performance metrics of their internal one.
There was some rumor about them manufacturing their own expansion SSD drive for the PS5, it's something they'll probably have to do down the line. At least that will also allow them to sell those to PC and laptop gamers, they can advertise them as the best way to play PS5 ports on PC, or something like that.
Anyway it's been a long-ass time for them to get around to this, guessing it'll be available for the all owners by early Fall, like mid-late September or maybe a bit earlier.
Yeah, back when they were first talking about this they said it needed to be 7 GB/s to make up for processing overhead. Was that an actual requirement and they've somehow found a way to utilize 3P drives the same speed as PS5's internal one with no performance penalty, or....?
That's probably because they're taking other factors into account that could vary negatively for 3P drives: access latency, random 4KB block read, random 4KB write, even sequential write speed, etc. You can have a way faster drive at sequential reads but worst statistics in those and other areas.
Even so, knowing those possible variances I'm a bit surprised Sony are allowing PS5 owners to kind of fend for themselves with expanding their internal storage. Feels like they did enough testing and realized it's impossible to ensure probably even a handful of 3P SSDs fit the exact performance metrics of their internal one.
There was some rumor about them manufacturing their own expansion SSD drive for the PS5, it's something they'll probably have to do down the line. At least that will also allow them to sell those to PC and laptop gamers, they can advertise them as the best way to play PS5 ports on PC, or something like that.
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Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
I think the 4 mm would work fine. A M.2 drive is less than 1 mm thick. Total space inside is over 11 mm, with 8 mm above the drive.
As Sony shows here, a M.2 drive naked is 0.8 mm thick. Then you can add up to 8 mm on top for a heatsink and it'll fit.
Thanks! I'm obviously mathematically challenged (and/or lazy .. maybe). Being it's below $20, I ordered it just so it's not out of stock come time to use it. I'm also "that guy" who can't wait patiently for things.
Speedwagon
Michelangelo painted the Sistine Chapel. Yabuki turned off voice chat in Mario Kart races. True artists of their time.
My SN850 2TB is ready. Now I just need a PS5.
vpance
Member
Kinda sucks that they couldn't find some way to mitigate that scenario from happening.
Doesn't it also mean no dev can expect to go ham on internal SSD speeds, because they have to take into account lower perf of M.2s?
Maybe it's one of those things that no one will ever know what they missed. So whatever I guess.
BLAUcopter
Gold Member
Any reason why this has taken so long?
TheDreadLord
Member
Is Sony going release their own SSD? It would be nice to have a reference product on the market in term of compatibility and speed. This expansion should work as the internal storage otherwise the cost/benefit will be quite limited.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
With Sony now porting everything to PCs, it's imperative that they dont push the SSD requirements too much.
Yup
MrTroubleMaker
Member
yup
FranXico
Member
Yes, there was even a thread about this recently.
I suspect that was the main reason for the hold up.
Tripolygon
Banned
Thanks for the refresher. People do not pay attention or have selective amnesia. Everything was said in that presentation, the SSD must be at least as fast as ours meaning 5.5GB/s and higher. People ran with the 7GB/s SSD for their narrative.
LordCBH
Member
Screw you guys I’m building a custom loop with hardline tubing to cool my SSD
small_law
Member
I have two Samsung 980 Pro 1TB drives in my PC running at PCIe 4.0. Here's a quick and dirty bench:
Take Sony's heatsink requirement seriously. NVMe SSD's running at PCIe 4.0 speeds get thermonuclear hot if there's no cooling solution. It doesn't look like the PS5 channels air to the M.2 slot, so buy a good heatsink. I'd even consider using premium thermal pads instead of any pack-ins.
Take Sony's heatsink requirement seriously. NVMe SSD's running at PCIe 4.0 speeds get thermonuclear hot if there's no cooling solution. It doesn't look like the PS5 channels air to the M.2 slot, so buy a good heatsink. I'd even consider using premium thermal pads instead of any pack-ins.