• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Digital Foundry impressions on Forza Horizon 5

Riky

Riky

$MSFT
I'm sure DF had developer comments about what the X1 version is like, it features DRS, aggressive LOD transitions etc.
It will be 30fps with DRS values below 1080p and more obvious cutbacks than the performance mode on Series consoles.
 
SkylineRKR

SkylineRKR

Member
I play both systems.

Demon's Souls looks good, but its animation is PS3 gen. This is deliberately so as the experience is unchanged for better or worse. Past the fast loading I wouldn't say its true next-gen or whatever the fuck that means. As for true next-gen or whatever, Its not like I think Demon's Souls, Returnal, Flight Sim which I all played set a new benchmark. They do some specific things but lose out on others. GoW 2018 and Ghost of Tsushima impressed me just as much on PS5. Perhaps even more. Gears 5 is kind of impressive as well (I only started playing it late last year).And even Days Gone, though still hampered by some loading times and pop in, was amazing when booted on PS5.

Forza Horizon 5 looks really solid. And the 30fps is never the ideal choice but on the footage it doesn't look as choppy as some other 30fps mode do in direct comparison. I get what they mean.
 
CamHostage

CamHostage

Member
reksveks said:
For Microsoft, definitely. For Sony, probably not. Some 'small' company is doing the GoW port whilst it won't be the biggest amount of work to get it working on pc, it still is a branching of the engine .
Click to expand...

It's still the same game, though. Back in the 360 days, they'd sometimes hire a studio to do a total production for each platform, re-creating the concept on a variation or sometimes even a different engine, often times without major components of the gameplay (see the 360/PS3 ports of Shadow of Mordor.) Now, you hire an external studio to essentially help optimize for the hardware and shepherd the version through QA. It's a new build of the game, you could get technical as far as how forked the fork is, but if you're comparing to say the Xbox 360 version of Titanfall or especially the 360 Forza Horizon 2, those products were not just a branch, they were custom works made to create as best as possible a facsimile of the main product.



Also, single-player games are a different case from multiplayer games in the current market, because of cross-play. The team porting God of War can rip out and rebuild anything they want in their project, because there's no dependencies for it to interoperate with the old PS4 version. Change the lighting, modify the renderer, rework weapon balance, what have you for changes, they'd be free to do that if asked. For Forza Horizon 5 and Halo Infinite, the different versions have to speak with each other and stay in sync online. You can change what is displayed to the user with customized assets and effects or other elements of the video/audio, but the games have to play the same content.
 
R

reksveks

Member
CamHostage said:
single-player games are a different case from multiplayer games in the current market, because of cross-play.
Click to expand...
Definitely agree with everything that you say and it's kinda why I was interested in the Predator hunting grounds pc game (although that's a 3rd party dev, no?) and its cross-platform play.

I am also interested to see what the next set of Sony MP games that come from the likes of Firewall and Deviation look like.
 
sncvsrtoip

sncvsrtoip

Member
SlimySnake said:
No idea why things are so hostile in here. The concept of next Gen graphics is so alien this Gen because of this bizarre fascination with cross gen games, native 4K resolutions and in demon souls case 60 FPS. Yes ratchet and ds look great but they have wasted half of the gpu power on hitting native 4K at 30 FPS. Next Gen games will target 1440p 30 FPS like the ue5 demo.

As good as forza looks, I can promise everyone their next game will look way better. Especially if they leave this nonsense native 4k resolution behind.

Forza’s biggest upgrade are its environments. The detail is simply unlike anything that’s come before it. We can compare it to gt7 which is closed circuit and is still being beaten by an open world game. The difference in environmental detail is simply generational.

However, the lighting still looks off to me. It doesn’t look Photorealistic like flight simulator which should be very doable for racing games this Gen. other more traditional games like fable and hell blade 2, maybe at 1440p 30 FPS but racing games will always target 1440p 60 FPS limiting their graphics budget.

And lastly, next Gen means cpu can finally allow them to do things they couldn’t do before. Destruction, detailed weather systems, other simulations, far higher number of cars. We are simply not getting those upgrades with 5 because it’s still a cross gen title.

I suspect next year with forza being next Gen only and gt7 being cross gen is going to be a real bloodbath. Especially if they can get the lightning right, use Horizon quality trackside detail and add destruction that has been missing from these so called sims for so long.

As it stands, forza horizon is a great cross gen effort just like horizon forbidden West but both games will show their age as soon as next Gen games like avatar, forza Motorsport 8 and other ue5 games roll around.
Click to expand...
As far as I know there is no circuit that takes place in the middle of a jungle so hard to expect environment as nice as in fh in gt7 ;)
 
CamHostage

CamHostage

Member
MrFunSocks said:
We're also 12 days away from launch and we haven't seen a single screenshot of the Xbox One version.
Click to expand...

They rarely show the past-gen version if they don't have to (and somehow they get away with that in the marketing, I guess so long as the images on the back of the box or online store are accurate before you buy the game... these days, they don't even do that anymore, they just let you assume that buyers understand scaling and that the game will look different on a good PC, on a bad PC, on a Series X, on a Series S, on a beat-up Xbox One, etc.) I don't think anybody is surprised that MS didn't give out the Xbox One version as part of these preview plays, even though it sucks that they played that card.

But they can't really sell a version of the product that does not include the feature list advertised. They can't list all the available modes and cars in the game purchase without an asterisk on features not being delivered on an old platform. They can't promise you online interactivity with your friends and then let you find out that the past-gen version is a walled garden. They can get away with a lot right up until you pick up the product disc or download, (and the feature list for FH5 has been unusually skimpy on the details, instead all the details have been in the video previews,) but they've still got to tell you what you will be paying for.

MrFunSocks said:
I would not be at all surprised to see it being a Forza Horizon 4 engine downport on the XB1. There's plenty of room for it to be.
Click to expand...

We'll see, I guess. I see no reason why FH5 would be an independent, non-cross-gen downport on Xbox One. They'll scale the engine and make cuts/compromises, same as every other cross-gen game so far on either past-gen platform.

As far as the "cross-gen 'in name only'" concept, we can talk about how far cross-gen can be stretched, potentially beyond recognition, but if you're saying you believe the Xbox Series version will be so radically different in how it's built for next-gen that it would not actually be cross-gen anymore, then we're probably going to have to redefine what we call "cross-gen". Apex Legends on Switch is cross-gen... it's got a 70FOV and runs at 30 and textures look like mud, but it's cross-gen.

MrFunSocks said:
Calling Forza Horizon 2 on the Xbox One and the 360 "the same game" is completely wrong btw.
Click to expand...

I absolutely said the opposite of that. Sumo built a different game, on the previous version of the FH engine, with its own campaign structure, and its own online servers.

They don't really do things that way anymore for console releases.
 
Last edited:
DeepSpace5D

DeepSpace5D

Member
SlimySnake said:
Yes ratchet and ds look great but they have wasted half of the gpu power on hitting native 4K at 30 FPS. Next Gen games will target 1440p 30 FPS like the ue5 demo.
Click to expand...
Ratchet actually has an update now for 120hz displays that lets you play quality mode at 40 fps with no hit to the visuals. It’s actually very noticeable going from 30 to 40 and that mode looks amazing. Definitely the best compromise out of all the modes available.
 
Last edited:
Gavon West

Gavon West

Spread's Cheeks for Intrusive Ads
Outrunner said:
Point being that in an online forum people discuss each other's opinions. The only one who is butthurt and salty is you, reported you for the cheap off-topic and provocation btw.
Click to expand...
Lol. You went and snitched? I rest my case....lmao!
 
M1chl

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
DeepSpace5D said:
Ratchet actually has an update now for 120hz displays that lets you play quality mode at 40 fps with no hit to the visuals. It’s actually very noticeable going from 30 to 40 and that mode looks amazing. Definitely the best compromise out of all the modes available.
Click to expand...
But imagine what they could do with VRR, probably even more amazing things.
 
Markio128

Markio128

Member
It feels almost criminal, but I’ll be signing up for 1 month of gamepass to blast through this game. These kind of games don’t really hold my interest for too long, so a month should be fine.
 
DeepSpace5D

DeepSpace5D

Member
M1chl said:
But imagine what they could do with VRR, probably even more amazing things.
Click to expand...
Yup, I’m waiting on that console update. I have a VRR-capable TV but only got it about a week ago. I didn’t have VRR before that so I’m not too experienced with it, but I did play The Witcher on PC yesterday and it said Freesync Premium was on so I guess VRR was active.
 
Last edited:
SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
DeepSpace5D said:
Ratchet actually has an update now for 120hz displays that lets you play quality mode at 40 fps with no hit to the visuals. It’s actually very noticeable going from 30 to 40 and that mode looks amazing. Definitely the best compromise out of all the modes available.
Click to expand...
I know. Played a lot of the 40 fps mode. And to me that makes it even worse. They are leaving A LOT of the GPU performance on the table. If its locked 40 fps then there is a good chance the game hits 50 fps in that mode when there is not much going on. Ratchet is basically a 4 tflops game running at native 4k 40 fps on the 10 tflops PS5. I can promise you that games that target 1440p 30 fps like the UE5 demo will look a generation ahead of ratchet.

Remove ray tracing and focus on just rasterization, and they get another 30-40% of the GPU based on the native 4k 60 fps mode without ray tracing. Spiderman will definitely have ray tracing, but Ghost of Tshushima 2 and Horizon 3? There is no need to have ray traced reflections in games set in the wild. So those games will look even better than Spiderman 2, let alone ratchet and demon souls.
 
sncvsrtoip

sncvsrtoip

Member
SlimySnake said:
There are several shots of them racing on a circuit that takes them through a jungle with trees and mountains on the side.

8i3cskw4kg451.jpg


i14IwfTGAGO6K7E.jpg


I will be honest, this actually doesnt look half bad compared to this picture you yourself talked about a few weeks ago. It looks like the trees in the pictures above seem to have gotten an upgrade and i wouldnt be surprised if they are 2D on PS4 and 3D on PS5.

vkoCZqknR1My_jYmgo31RPiw92HwlZxBWJq2hvekYZM.jpg


But there is no denying GT7's environments lack the level of detail we are seeing in Forza Horizon 5. And that is likely due to the fact that they are aiming for native 4k 60 fps while Forza is settling for native 4k 30 fps. Forza devs smartly put their budget towards increased visual fidelity while PD is wasting their GPU budget on natively rendering 4k pixels at 60 fps. Asinine decision by PD but they are the king of dumb decisions. GT6 releasing on PS3 a month after launch and flopping should taught them something but it clearly didnt.

m2V3cLc.jpg


Playground is simply doing what they did last gen. They said FUCK YOU to the last gen consoles, and took advantage of XSX specs just like they did with FH2 last gen. GG is also doing the same with better hair rendering, better character models, better lighting, waves, and more environmental detail in the PS5 version of Horizon Forbidden West. Those ears are not gonna be on the PS4 version. ;p Both are still tied to last gen consoles so they cant do much with the CPU or SSD, but this is way better than what GT is doing.
Click to expand...
level on environment at screen 2 is imo good, yes its not fh level but main reason is that you are not able to drive on it, its just background, also not all studios has ability of environment creation like playground games, it terms of lightning, car assets etc. polyphony still on good level (tough its not that impressive as was in 2017 as a ps4 game)
 
DaGwaphics

DaGwaphics

Member
elliot5 said:
"Those looking for further examples of scalability from Series S may emerge none the wiser because evidence from a couple of hours' play suggests that the only major difference between Series X and Series S comes down to resolution."

Nice. Good for Series S users. Game looks stunning.

Can some of you clowns not turn this in to a console war over which racer is better despite wild differences. Also trying to throw out conspiracy theories over DF being biased to Microsoft because of their discussion of the 30 fps mode. Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...

I'm actually a bit shocked how good it looks on Series S, can't wait for launch. I'll be tempted to drag out the old VCR just for comparison.
 
D

Danknugz

Member
Umbasaborne said:
Graphical detail is enhanced at 30 fps. Stuff like vegetation density and some texture quality. Forza horizon has always been playable at 30fps, i might spring for that again for improved detail
Click to expand...

ah, i see now there is no 4k 60 on xsex but when i posted that i thought there was.
 
DeepSpace5D

DeepSpace5D

Member
SlimySnake said:
I know. Played a lot of the 40 fps mode. And to me that makes it even worse. They are leaving A LOT of the GPU performance on the table. If its locked 40 fps then there is a good chance the game hits 50 fps in that mode when there is not much going on. Ratchet is basically a 4 tflops game running at native 4k 40 fps on the 10 tflops PS5. I can promise you that games that target 1440p 30 fps like the UE5 demo will look a generation ahead of ratchet.

Remove ray tracing and focus on just rasterization, and they get another 30-40% of the GPU based on the native 4k 60 fps mode without ray tracing. Spiderman will definitely have ray tracing, but Ghost of Tshushima 2 and Horizon 3? There is no need to have ray traced reflections in games set in the wild. So those games will look even better than Spiderman 2, let alone ratchet and demon souls.
Click to expand...
But even if there was overhead to reach 50 fps, didn’t Digital Foundry mention something like it’s specifically 40 fps because it needed to be a number that evenly goes into 120 for the refresh rate? I’d have to go back and watch their analysis on it because I’m not a big tech person, but I thought I remembered something along those lines.

I’m sure that they could have pushed things further if they didn’t care about native 4k and raytracing, but it just seems like their vision for the game differed from what you would have personally preferred? I guess they wanted those bells and whistles.

No doubt if a game this gen is targeting 1440p 30 fps no raytracing they are going to be able to do much more in other areas. I don’t know if the tradeoff will be worth it to me personally with 30 fps. Demon’s Souls in 30fps mode looks stunning when you are just standing still, but movement feels so choppy in comparison to 60 fps and the world even visually looks way better to me at 60fps because the motion is so much more fluid despite the resolution being lower. I don’t mind sacrificing resolution and raytracing at all so I agree there, but keep 60fps in my opinion.
 
Last edited:
E

elliot5

Member
DeepSpace5D said:
But even if there was overhead to reach 50 fps, didn’t Digital Foundry mention something like it’s specifically 40 fps because it needed to be a number that evenly goes into 120 I’d have to go back and watch their analysis on it because I’m not a big tech person, but I thought I remembered something along those lines.

I don’t doubt that they could have pushed the visuals further if they didn’t care about native 4k and raytracing, but it just seems like their vision for the game differed from what you would have personally preferred? I guess they wanted those bells and whistles.

No doubt if a game this gen is targeting 1440p 30 fps no raytracing they are going to be able to do much more in other areas. I don’t know if the tradeoff will be worth it to me personally with 30 fps. Demon’s Souls in 30fps mode looks stunning when you are just standing still, but movement feels so choppy in comparison to 60 fps and the world even visually looks way better to me at 60fps because the motion is so much more fluid despite the resolution being lower. I don’t mind sacrificing resolution and raytracing at all so I agree there, but keep 60fps in my opinion.
Click to expand...
correct, without VRR, the framerate needs to evenly be a multiple of the refresh rate of the TV/display. Aka 30, 40, 60, 120 fps work on 120hz displays. Whereas 40 on a 60 would not and 50 on 120 would not.
 
DeepSpace5D

DeepSpace5D

Member
elliot5 said:
correct, without VRR, the framerate needs to evenly be a multiple of the refresh rate of the TV/display. Aka 30, 40, 60, 120 fps work on 120hz displays. Whereas 40 on a 60 would not and 50 on 120 would not.
Click to expand...
Thanks, that makes alot of sense. And I’m understanding more now the importance of VRR.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Forza Horizon 5 reaches 37 million unique players
Platform 2
74
4K
Celcius replied
Semantics: Did Digital Foundry create the "Fidelity Conscious Gamers" or was it inevitable gamers would want to know more about how games function?
2
78
3K
Shut0wen replied
Digital Foundry: Starfield Performance Mode Upgrade - 40FPS, 60FPS, VRR And More - The Complete Breakdown
Analysis Review
0
220
Draugoth replied
I have a serious question about Digital Foundry
Drama 2
96
8K
Drizzlehell replied
Digital Foundry calls out Turn10 for downgrading Forza Motorsport.
2 3 4 5 6
261
24K
mckmas8808 replied
Top Bottom