These consoles released with way too small hard drives, the refreshes need to rectify that.
What happened is that consoles are no longer really that unique or distinct. There isn't really much "hidden power" to "unlock" with experience. They're similar to PCs but locked to a spec.
I don't buy this. It seems stupid. They have supply of the current chips and can keep getting enough to make more consoles than last gen. Why would they compete with others for much more expensive next gen chips? Why would they sink resources to design the new systems? Is there any data that suggests people will gobble up upgraded systems? Did the PS4 Pro and XOX sell better than the base models or bring in more gamers?
The thing about gaming in general is most studios still gun for best production values as budget permits, which can sacrifice gameplay. There's so much filler like cinematics, hiring professional actors, best rock and hair textures ever etc.... the average game could probably get by fine if they gassed some aesthetics employees to cut costs, or replaced them with gameplay coders.But people can just buy bigger drives; SSD costs will come down gradually, just keep in mind if you want a much bigger drive sooner you'd have to settle for a slower drive.
Yep; hardware capability stopped being the limiting factor a long time ago IMO. Development time, budget, and manpower are the biggest limiting factors for how ambitious a new AAA game can have going forward. Funny enough all three are things which haven't been particularly well addressed by the industry yet, because they're very hard to do. Designing a new console architecture spec is easy by comparison.
I got interested in learning more on some of the AI programming models like GPT-3 (for human-like text) and DALL-E (generating visual images from text descriptions generated by GPT-3) and such. They're systems that can automate the creation of text dialogs using machine learning, so you have one person acting as the specialist or curator and the system generates the dialog/text. It's gotten very sophisticated over the years and companies like Microsoft have investments into the technology (in Microsoft's case, they have exclusive license to GPT-3 for their products and are the only ones who have access to its source code).
I think stuff like that will be the real future innovation for rapidly expediating game development, if models and systems can be developed that can do the same for, say, graphic textures, audio creation, 3D mesh creation and game code generation. It would help greatly solve the dev time, budget and manpower problems facing massive AAA game development, and flow down to smaller teams, allowing mid-tier and indie devs to potentially truly make AAA-scale blockbusters.
We are probably many years away from that becoming a reality however, but the AAA gaming space needs those breakthroughs sooner rather than later, to save it from some unforeseen implosion (due to mounting costs) or explicit scaling back of features (to reign in costs and development time). My only big worry with that type of development is potential workforce displacement; suddenly you won't need dozens of animators an VFX artists if an AI programming and content creation model can do that itself, faster and at greater volume to boot. Specialists who can program and curate the generated content would be in very high demand, and some of the people in positions that'd be phased out could transition, but not all of them.
There would probably have to be legislation (either enforced by the industry a la ESRB, or by the government, and we don't want the government enforcing it!) mandating a minimum number of development staff for various positions that must have actual people filling the roles, and punishments (likely fines or revoking of industry privileges) enforced for studios and publishers that don't meet them. However, that could be easily abused, and shut out smaller teams who realistically may not be able to meet certain mimimums, so it would be best to have those minimums set as percentages of total staff rather than specific numbers.
IIRC PS4 Pro had a 1:5 sales ratio with base PS4, and the One X had a lower sales ratio than that (probably 1:6 or something like that). I don't know if either brought more gamers in, I'd think they mainly appealed to parts of their respective existing bases that wanted more powerful systems.
In fact I think Sony at the time said they made PS4 Pro to prevent PS4 players from drifting over to the PC, as that was a real fear of theirs (a bit ironic now considering their "evolving" stance in supporting PC nowadays).
But people can just buy bigger drives; SSD costs will come down gradually, just keep in mind if you want a much bigger drive sooner you'd have to settle for a slower drive.
For me, I’m just waiting for an okay priced (2TB?) expansion card for my XSX.
Just watched this; I still think the 2023 date is too aggressive.
Timestamp
However since I was looking at it a lot from consumer readiness factor, I also have to think about the Day 1 buyers and early adopters, how will they feel per se if just a couple years later a new revision comes out doubling performance, or offers a significant increase in some areas for the same price they paid for models now technically obsolete (in terms of being the marquee of the product line)? I guess this is where the question of customer satisfaction comes in, if people think they've gotten a lot out of what they purchased before so as not to become jaded with a big revision so soon after they jumped into the ecosystem.
That's true, but also keep in mind the base PS4 and XBO consoles, a lot of people already felt those were outdated when they launched. They didn't feel as future-proofed for some folks the way the base PS5 and XSX do with people today. So there's a chance the people who didn't balk so much at the concept of a PS4 Pro for example, may do so more with a PS5 Pro coming roughly three years after the base model, especially considering the increased proliferation of cross-gen support even among 1P offerings (which wasn't the case with last gen).We already saw some outrage when PS4 Pro launched, where some people felt betrayed, started to call their base model 'PS4 Amateur', but eventually they swallowed it up and went back to playing all those games that were still available to them regardless, some even upgraded to Pro model. So it has already been done, tested and verified, that despite some initial minor voices on the internet, the market as a whole will gladly welcome anything new Sony and MS will be willing to introduce.
I knew it! So the potential for PS5Pro and XsXPro for the GPU:
with MCM design double digit TFLOPS: 30+
increase in GPU Frequency: Up to 3Ghz
increase in RAM: 20-25 GB close to 1 TB/sec of GDDR7
implementation of infinity cache
dedicated and better Ray Tracing Cores, and Machine Learning Cores
For the CPU I am speculating:
3D V-Cache
8 Core (Zen 2) to 12 Core (Zen 4)
Between 4--5Ghz
SSD:
PCIE 5 implementation
between 15-30 GB/Sec close to the RAM bandwidth of PS3 and Xbox 360
Besides no brainer implementation for Wifi6E, i am not sure if OPTICAL DISK DRIVES are even worth it. What storage medium would they use to release games? 4K Ultra Blu Ray i think is just too small for XsX Pro and PS5 Pro
I knew it! So the potential for PS5Pro and XsXPro for the GPU:
with MCM design double digit TFLOPS: 30+
increase in GPU Frequency: Up to 3Ghz
increase in RAM: 20-25 GB close to 1 TB/sec of GDDR7
implementation of infinity cache
dedicated and better Ray Tracing Cores, and Machine Learning Cores
For the CPU I am speculating:
3D V-Cache
8 Core (Zen 2) to 12 Core (Zen 4)
Between 4--5Ghz
SSD:
PCIE 5 implementation
between 15-30 GB/Sec close to the RAM bandwidth of PS3 and Xbox 360
Besides no brainer implementation for Wifi6E, i am not sure if OPTICAL DISK DRIVES are even worth it. What storage medium would they use to release games? 4K Ultra Blu Ray i think is just too small for XsX Pro and PS5 Pro
I knew it! So the potential for PS5Pro and XsXPro for the GPU:
with MCM design double digit TFLOPS: 30+
increase in GPU Frequency: Up to 3Ghz
increase in RAM: 20-25 GB close to 1 TB/sec of GDDR7
implementation of infinity cache
dedicated and better Ray Tracing Cores, and Machine Learning Cores
For the CPU I am speculating:
3D V-Cache
8 Core (Zen 2) to 12 Core (Zen 4)
Between 4--5Ghz
SSD:
PCIE 5 implementation
between 15-30 GB/Sec close to the RAM bandwidth of PS3 and Xbox 360
Besides no brainer implementation for Wifi6E, i am not sure if OPTICAL DISK DRIVES are even worth it. What storage medium would they use to release games? 4K Ultra Blu Ray i think is just too small for XsX Pro and PS5 Pro
I knew it! So the potential for PS5Pro and XsXPro for the GPU:
with MCM design double digit TFLOPS: 30+
increase in GPU Frequency: Up to 3Ghz
increase in RAM: 20-25 GB close to 1 TB/sec of GDDR7
implementation of infinity cache
dedicated and better Ray Tracing Cores, and Machine Learning Cores
For the CPU I am speculating:
3D V-Cache
8 Core (Zen 2) to 12 Core (Zen 4)
Between 4--5Ghz
SSD:
PCIE 5 implementation
between 15-30 GB/Sec close to the RAM bandwidth of PS3 and Xbox 360
Besides no brainer implementation for Wifi6E, i am not sure if OPTICAL DISK DRIVES are even worth it. What storage medium would they use to release games? 4K Ultra Blu Ray i think is just too small for XsX Pro and PS5 Pro
The only thing I think a Pro model would have is double to the the CU count and slightly higher clocks like the PS4 Pro.
Let me guess - you want all that for 499$ max right? C'mon, why are you guys always doing it to yourselves, it's like I'm reading the infanous next-gen speculation thread all over again...
For me personally I just want quality, performance and ray tracing rolled into one rather than three options. Also I don't mind paying a premium for a quality product.The ppl that support hardware refreshes mid gen, are tbe ones crying they dont see much diference when they buy a next gen console.
Unless it breaks ill keep my base console untill end of the gen, if i was into refreshing hardware i would be playing on PC.
I also dont see any need for more powerfull hardware when most games are still crossgen and dont even take full advantage of the hardware available.
Well personally, I'm not so much 'supporting' it as I am saying it's practically inevitable. Even if designs stay the say architecture-wise, economies-of-scale will drop off for 7nm and if moving to a smaller node gives bigger power consumption savings, it's easy to up clocks to increase overall power as just one example.The ppl that support hardware refreshes mid gen, are tbe ones crying they dont see much diference when they buy a next gen console.
Unless it breaks ill keep my base console untill end of the gen, if i was into refreshing hardware i would be playing on PC.
I also dont see any need for more powerfull hardware when most games are still crossgen and dont even take full advantage of the hardware available.
PS5Pro and XsX Pro will NOT come out next year, most likely Holiday of 2024.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best PS5 has Wifi6 not Wifi6E.
With Microsofts case, they can have some sort of transition alpha/beta/gamma kits with Zen3/RDNA3 slap on the current XsX|S, Xbone/X OS, and have the potential for the XsXPro to be Zen4|RDNA4 for its final specs. Developers need time to get familiar with hardware and tap into its bells and whistles, so Zen3/RDNA3 would be something to toy around with, with plenty of headroom remaining with Zen4/RDNA4
With that being said, i honestly think that current gen wont really start until 2024 because they will have to finally divorce from Jaguar and Vega/Polaris and the feature set of current gen:
SFS/SSD streaming
Zen 2/RDNA 2
VRS
VRR
Geometry Engine
Ray Tracing
Fidelity FX
will be far too advanced in XsXPro|PS5Pro for Xbone|x and PS4|Pro to handle
ps5 got wifi 6?PS5Pro and XsX Pro will NOT come out next year, most likely Holiday of 2024.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best PS5 has Wifi6 not Wifi6E.
With Microsofts case, they can have some sort of transition alpha/beta/gamma kits with Zen3/RDNA3 slap on the current XsX|S, Xbone/X OS, and have the potential for the XsXPro to be Zen4|RDNA4 for its final specs. Developers need time to get familiar with hardware and tap into its bells and whistles, so Zen3/RDNA3 would be something to toy around with, with plenty of headroom remaining with Zen4/RDNA4
With that being said, i honestly think that current gen wont really start until 2024 because they will have to finally divorce from Jaguar and Vega/Polaris and the feature set of current gen:
SFS/SSD streaming
Zen 2/RDNA 2
VRS
VRR
Geometry Engine
Ray Tracing
Fidelity FX
will be far too advanced in XsXPro|PS5Pro for Xbone|x and PS4|Pro to handle
But if they are planned there not coming out any time soon. Maybe 2024 when things might be very different.I also dont see any need for more powerfull hardware when most games are still crossgen and dont even take full advantage of the hardware available.
Wifi 6 only supports up to 5GHz bands. 6E is the one that supports up to 6GHz bands.ps5 got wifi 6?
I've got
RT-AX56U router... and I thought it is wifi6... but my ps5 only uses 5ghz and I get like 200mbit in the same room on ps5 (on 600mbit connection).
We have something for you. Its called PC.DFor me personally I just want quality, performance and ray tracing rolled into one rather than three options. Also I don't mind paying a premium for a quality product.
ffffffWifi 6 only supports up to 5GHz bands. 6E is the one that supports up to 6GHz bands.
Yeah, it's kinda confusing. They probably should've called Wifi 6 something else but I guess they didn't want to skip "6".
The only thing I think a Pro model would have is double to the the CU count and slightly higher clocks like the PS4 Pro.
I've spent thousands on gaming PC's over the years and I prefer the simplicity of gaming on a console.We have something for you. Its called PC.
*insert Don Mattrick gif here*
More likely, given the cost constraints, would just be a full PS5 GPU with no CUs disabled, but with faster clocks. So like 40 CUs @ 2.5 GHz max or something like that. They might want to do just enough for boosting framerates / boosting dynamic resolutions / adding more RT, while trying to keep costs down.The only thing I think a Pro model would have is double to the the CU count and slightly higher clocks like the PS4 Pro.
If this patent is to be believed, it's double the CU count.don't think it'll have double the CUs because that would hinge on it staying RDNA2-based; IIRC RDNA3 has redesigned the setup, the GPU isn't exactly arranged like it is with RDNA2 GPUs.
You can get double PS5 perf with similar CU and shader core counts on RDNA3 let alone RDNA4 (which is what I think mid-gen refreshes would actually be using), and slightly higher GPU clocks.
Is it really that bad?I've spent thousands on gaming PC's over the years and I prefer the simplicity of gaming on a console.
Is what that bad?Is it really that bad?
Pc complexity that you alludes to.Is what that bad?
If this patent is to be believed, it's double the CU count.
RDNA 3 get most of their performance gains from being double the CU count by being chiplets.
But do we really need mid gen refreshes this time around though?
These consoles are much more capable than the previous gen were when they were released.