kingfey
Banned
Its like Sony does bangers on early year, while xbox mainly does bangers on holiday.
2 different approach.
Yet gaffers, dont understand it at all.
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Xbox Wants To Provide A 'Steady Flow Of Great Games' Moving Forward
- Thread starter Vasto
- Start date
2 different approach.
Yet gaffers, dont understand it at all.
bushwookie
Banned
I suppose you could consider them "retrospective ". How else would you classify them?
Deathloop was a timed exclusive. If you consider it releasing on Playstationin 2021, then when would you consider it releasing for Xbox? Does it just never count as releasing?
I wouldn't consider Flight Sim anything for 2022, seeing as it released on Xbox Series consoles in Aug 2021. Not sure what you're referring to there.
I've got no problem considering games to be "retrospective" though. Just make sure you're consistent with it, and not only apply it to Xbox. For instance, I played Demons Souls back in 2010, but there's plenty of people here that pretend it didn't exist prior to 2020.
remember_spinal
Banned
Doubt that happens this year.
God of War and Forspoken games releasing in 3rd/4th quarter, that we know of already
kingfey
Banned
Forspoken is 3rd party.
God of war Ragnarök releasing on October would close their strong year, with a banger.
September to December would be a big time for this year. Starfield, BOTW 2 and starfield would be icing on the cake.
MAtgS
Member
That or Playtonic.
This has to happen.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Third party or not, Forspoken is a console exclusive, just like Starfield or Redfall would be.
The distinction between first-party and third-party would mostly be from a business POV. For gamers like us, it is the end result that matters: where we can play a game and where we can't.
coffinbirth
Member
Yeah, pc.
But in all seriousness, I imagine that will eventually be an important distinction regarding Game Pass, as all 1st party exclusives land there day one, whereas a 3rd party exclusive wouldn't necessarily. Will there even be 3rd party exclusive titles for Xbox that wouldn't be, assuming Microsoft would likely already be paying for that to be a thing? Or does that venture into 2nd party status at that point?
Forspoken is a console ex at least 24 months after release date, no forever like Starfield...
Project Athia Will Be a PS5 Console Exclusive for at Least 2 Years - IGN
Project Athia will be a PlayStation 5 console exclusive for at least two years, a new trailer has revealed.
remember_spinal
Banned
Just like final fantasy 7 remake was a one year exclusive lolForspoken is a console ex at least 24 months after release date, no forever like Starfield...
Project Athia Will Be a PS5 Console Exclusive for at Least 2 Years - IGN
Project Athia will be a PlayStation 5 console exclusive for at least two years, a new trailer has revealed.www.ign.com
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
As I said, "console exclusive".
MS wouldn't be blocking any game for PC (especially considering they'll have to pay extra to do that).
And "second party" is a very different thing. Flight Simulator is a second-party game (an Xbox game built by a non-XGS studio). But I don't recognize that distinction. In my opinion, if the IP belongs to Microsoft, it's a first-party game (e.g., Flight Simulator). If it doesn't, it is only a third-party game (e.g., Stalker).
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
And there is no guarantee that Forspoken would release on Xbox. There are countless examples of that now: Kena, Godfall, Final Fantasy 7 Remake, Fall Guys, etc.Forspoken is a console ex at least 24 months after release date, no forever like Starfield...
Project Athia Will Be a PS5 Console Exclusive for at Least 2 Years - IGN
Project Athia will be a PlayStation 5 console exclusive for at least two years, a new trailer has revealed.
Just like there is no guarantee that Starfield will never end up releasing on PlayStation. Or Stalker would release on PlayStatio. Things are a-changing in the industry, and you never know what ends up happening. MS will be publishing Activision games on PlayStation. PlayStation is releasing MLB and future Destiny games on Xbox.
So it's best to work with the information available officially, i.e., Forspoken is a console exclusive as of now.
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DaleinCalgary
Member
I've heard this before
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Ill Give them until the start of 2024 to have a decent run of games, at least one every quarter. If we hit then and it’s not happening, well sorry Phil you know you da man but something just ain’t right.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
I think that's too lenient. I'd expect more games per quarter (not just one per quarter) and sooner than 2024. Even if we take out Zenimax and Activision (has to) studios for now, XGS had the same amount of studios as PlayStation since 2018, right? (~ 13 studios).
Sometime ago, I analyzed PlayStation games exclusive output, which showed that PlayStation has been already doing for years what Xbox plans to do in the future -- to release on big game per quarter. It just goes under the radar.
Even if some disagree with some of the games I put there in the 'big games' category (which is totally fine), the average still remains well under 1 game per quarter. As of now, per that analysis, PlayStation's output was 1 big game every 39 days -- in addition to many smaller AA exclusive games. Take out some of the games from the 'big' list, it'll still be 1 big game per 60 days.
Considering that Xbox will have twice the number of studios than PlayStation, I'd expect no less than 1 big AAA game per month from them. One big game per quarter is not enough, knowing that PlayStation has been doing it for years with less than half the studios.
Leyasu
Banned
To have a game every quarter, and if the projects are on 3 yr schedules, then Microsoft would need to have 12 teams.
A game per month on the same schedule would require 36 teams.
Obviously RPGs take longer. 1 game per month seems unrealistic no?
Bernd Lauert
Banned
Playstation had an incredible 2020, but let's not act like that's a standard year for them. 2021 was already decidedly less incredible. They're no where close to one big game every 39 or even every 60 days.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
If I am not wrong, I think Microsoft will have ~36 teams after the Activision deal closes, right? (I could be wrong).
But combine whatever 30+ teams they have with some timed-exclusives and second-party XGS games, I don't think 1 game per month would be an unrealistic target. And I think they'd like that target, considering that'd keep the Gamepass content pipeline full.
Not sure if its economics would work or not though.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I suppose your right, dependant on the size of the game. I expect one large triple A game once a quarter starting in 2024. If we include smaller A and double A games then yes I think they should launch within the 3 months as we’ll, including things like awesome RTS games that only launch on PC gamepass.
I think it should be from start of 2024 just purely down to how long game development is Now, for larger games. Even with their purchases zenimax only went through last year and activision won’t go through until start of next year, there’s no way a company like activision can go From having one large triple A title a year like cod to suddenly churning out multiple titles within 12 months.
I mean, let’s look at even Sonys output like you mentioned. They didn’t have anything for the last 6 months of 2021 and I’m not willing to allow cheap directors cuts of previously released PS4 games to be seen as legit releases imo. I’m talking true sequels or new ip fresh releases.
they had demons souls, returnal and ratchet and then nothing right? Now they’ve had horizon and GT which is amazing. I don’t think we have anything that we know of until God of war? Which could slip into next year.
Leyasu
Banned
I don’t know the specifics on team quantities. But even with the numbers in my post, there’s still rpgs take longer than 3yrs in general.
As I said, I don’t think that a game per month is realistic from next year. Perhaps once the acti deal is done and if they liberate studios from cod then perhaps a game a month could be realised.
We will see
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Bernd Lauert
Banned
Weirdly enough, the RPGs could come much faster. Obsidian is known to churn out games in a timely manner, and apparently their goal is to release 6 games in the next 7 years or so. inXile is also fairly productive.
They were alot smaller studios generally thought and those that they bought had basically just realised games or were going to. I think one thing that I would be interested is to see the number of support studio's/employee that PS has in comparison to Xbox, it might be that contracting that work isn't efficient for Xbox and something that they need to fix.
I think 1 AAA per q is about right and suspect you will also get one first party AA game per q as well.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
I think the big problem here is the "older" studios that XGS owned/owns.
Even if you look at this year, the two XGS games scheduled for 2022 are Redfall and Starfield. Imagine the lineup if Xbox hadn't acquired Zenimax or made these games, which were already long in development, exclusives. I think that's the issue, that the older studios (Coalition, Playground, 343i, Mojang, Undead Labs, Rare, Ninja Theory, etc.) didn't grow enough in size as times changed (to handle multiple projects) and/or didn't become productive enough to deliver games in relatively shorter periods.
As I mentioned earlier, I think the end-result is what matters the most (if I can play this game on this console only or any other console), not if the game was specifically made by a first-party studio. In that regard, PlayStation did have Deathloop and Kena as console exclusives in H2 2021. In addition to smaller games, such as Tribes of Midgard and Solar Ash. They'd also have had Horizon, if not for the delay.
4 exclusive games in 6 months is pretty good I'd say + Ghost of Tushsima Iki Island expansion + Death Stranding Director's Cut.
For H2, they have God of War, Forspoken, Final Fantasy XVI, as of now. They may have TLOU 2 Factions and/or Remake as well, but no confirmation yet. In addition, smaller games like Stray and Little Devil Inside are also scheduled for 2022.
God of War is not slipping in 2022 though. Already "confirmed" by Jason Schreier, and I absolutely trust that dude.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Both very good points. And that's what I'm saying: their older studios remained small and should have been expanded a few years ago.
In addition, some of them just didn't work quickly enough -- when they really should have. A couple of examples: State of Decay 2 came in 2018. They should have been releasing State of Decay 3 in 2022 (max!). It'll probably release in 2024. Ninja Theory released Hellblade in 2017. Even if they took 5 years, Hellblade should release in 2022, but that's not happening either. If God of War (full reboot) and Ghost of Tsushima (new IP) can be made in less than 4 years, there is no reason why Hellblade 2 and SoD 3 (both sequels) cannot be released in 5 years.
I think your point about support studios is a very valid one. That could be one of the "problems" here. And considering how Sony has been acquiring support studios, perhaps they think this will be an even bigger factor after the industry consolidation?
"In February 2021, Fall Guys was announced for Nintendo Switch, Xbox One, and Xbox Series X, scheduled for mid 2021.[However, in April 2021, these versions of the game were delayed to 2022, citing greater focus on cross-compatibility among all versions of the game.[2]"
Ups...
In Forspoken case you have official trailer whith this at least 2 years console time ex...
The is a difference between Starfield which is MS ip and Forspoeken which is SE ip.
Infamous Second Son 2014 and Ghost of Tsushima 2020, four years you say? UD and Ninja Theory are growing fast and Sod3 and H2 will be AAA games, so they need time...
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Sucker Punch released the InFamous First Light DLC in late 2014 and then worked on another IP (Prophecy) till late 2015 / early 2016, before canceling it. They moved to Ghost of Tsushima after that. So 2016-2020 (despite COVID and TLOU 2 release date delaying the game in the end).
God of War and Ghost of Tsushima are AAA games as well, and yet they were made in a shorter time frame. And that was my point.
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So we're down to every quarter from last times every month. You all are insane if you think you're getting a AAA game every month/quarter. You've all been saying this same line since the xbox one telling people to wait for Xbox Next to see the output.
Ask yourself this, have you unsubscribed from gamepass because there isn't a steady flow of AAA games currently? So why would MS increase expenditure like that needlessly?
They will buy big IPs for marketshare growth but big AAA releases every month will not be something that's needed unless there is no growth.
Ask yourself this, have you unsubscribed from gamepass because there isn't a steady flow of AAA games currently? So why would MS increase expenditure like that needlessly?
They will buy big IPs for marketshare growth but big AAA releases every month will not be something that's needed unless there is no growth.
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BbMajor7th
Member
Honestly, there's a been a general sense that MS struggle with this since about 2013 and it's the thing Phil has to most consistently reassure people about. They still put out good games, but the miscommunication, delays and haphazard releases remain very consistent (particularly in comparison to their two main competitors). MS has great studios and great potential, but I think as a company - somewhere in that giant superstructure - they have real issues with studio management.
Only Playground seem solidly on point with quality and timings while others end up with headaches along the way. Halo: Infinite was a great game in the end overshadowed by all kinds of missteps with messaging and release, Sea of Thieves has wound up great, but was pushed out barebones and suffered (unfairly) in reviews. Hellblade II will undoubtedly be a looker, but the target render they put out at the Series X launch is literally ground-breaking visual fidelity that even large, well-established studios will struggle to hit on current gen hardware. It's an incredibly high watermark to which the final game will be undoubtedly be compared - huge pressure on a small studio and another that could well have been avoided. The Coalition are an insanely talented studio knocking out sequels to a franchise that should have been sunset two games ago - they're still great games, but they lack the excitement factor due to being just another Gears game.
Only Playground seem solidly on point with quality and timings while others end up with headaches along the way. Halo: Infinite was a great game in the end overshadowed by all kinds of missteps with messaging and release, Sea of Thieves has wound up great, but was pushed out barebones and suffered (unfairly) in reviews. Hellblade II will undoubtedly be a looker, but the target render they put out at the Series X launch is literally ground-breaking visual fidelity that even large, well-established studios will struggle to hit on current gen hardware. It's an incredibly high watermark to which the final game will be undoubtedly be compared - huge pressure on a small studio and another that could well have been avoided. The Coalition are an insanely talented studio knocking out sequels to a franchise that should have been sunset two games ago - they're still great games, but they lack the excitement factor due to being just another Gears game.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
That's another good point -- the economics of it all.
I mentioned it in one of my comments above that I think Xbox can put 1 big exclusive game every 1-2 months on Gamepass (if they get their management right). Because Sony has been following the same cadence for multiple years now with less than half the teams.
However, will they? That's a good question. I am not sure if it makes sense for Xbox to do that, economically speaking.
I believe one of their goals would be to find the sweet spot: one where they put the least amount of games on Gamepass without losing subscribers because there isn't enough to play.
Papacheeks
Banned
Here's the thing tool wise Most of the first half of last gen was Sony getting their developers off Power-PC architecture and on to x86. SO there was going to be a long lull of studios moving over their tools to x86, which is why there was such a long wait from end of PS3 era to PS4 in terms of releases.
Now that they have their engines built, tools built and better workflows because of the low level API being ready out the gate on PS5 toolsets which are basically super enhanced PS4 toolsets, games are coming out at a consistent clip. Insomniac has by far the most efficient work flow. They literally have 2 studios and worked on Spiderman remastered, Miles morales, and Ratchet & clank:RA. And already are on track to release Spiderman 2 next year, and possibly Wolverine in 2024, on top of making what I've heard as a X-men game with co-op/Mulitplayer.
Guerilla has multiple teams, is working on multiple projects and just released one of the largest most dense games on PS5 last month. ANd it would have been able to release last year if not for covid. So 4 years since Zero dawn.
Sony has their studios setup to release games every 3-4 years instead of 5-6 like it was for some. ANd with studios now being 2 team based, and some of them 3. It's hard to knock how many games they have pumped out in the past 2 years.
kingfey
Banned
People here dont think like that sadly. They only consider 1st party games, as an output, instead of 3rd party exclusive. Which is the reason why this post is too long.
It's clear from their strategy they are IP shopping now more than they are output building. Output building is far less expensive than IP shopping but IP shopping is good for gaining marketshare.
IMO they will have a steady stream of games but not a steady stream of AAA games every month. They are already kind of there in that regard. Most of the AAA games will still aim for Christmas and still be few and far between. Most will be games that were coming out anyway but now with a MS banner. They will not spread out or move COD/Forza/Halo release to spring and summer for example and they would not need the cost/risk of those type of AAA releases every month. They will still use the Christmas hype and one or two big games during that period to push their services and have less output expenditure for the rest of the year where people remain subscribed anyway.
Leyasu
Banned
?
So what you think that it makes more sense to drag out development and increase costs than finishing and releasing them?
Surely you must mean something else that I am not getting?
kingfey
Banned
Most of their studios can do 2 projects. Obsidian is doing 3 projects (Project mara, avowed, and Outer world 2), While Arkane did deathloop, and ghost wire tokyo.
With MS, they could expand other studios to have 2 to 3 projects. Which makes 1 game every month realistic.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Corrections: Project Mara is by Ninja Theory. Ghostwire Tokyo is by Tango.
kingfey
Banned
Increasing the development can bring out games like psychonauts 2. It could add more content in to the game, because they have other studios, which can cover for them.
What big game did Sony release Q4 2021?
Number of studios isn’t a scientific basis, since a lot of Sony’s exclusive titles have historically come from deals with third parties e.g FF7 Remake, Deathloop etc.
One AAA title per month is a major stretch. 6 a year would be an excellent outcome.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
The thing is not all games appeal to everyone no matter how good they are.
The only Xbox exclusives ive been fussed about the last 8 yrs is gears, sea of thieves and halo infinite, on the sony side uncharted,tlou and gow.
So having more games is better.
kingfey
Banned
You are correct. Obsidian is doing grounded.. While ninja theory is working project mara and hell blade 2. Redfall is what arkane is working on.
kingfey
Banned
MLB the show comes in to mind.
God of War ascension was released in 2013. God of War in 2018. So 5 years to make.
In an interview, Sucker Punch stated that they’d worked on Ghost of Tsushima for six years. Sony also announced it was it early development as at 2015.
You’re really vocal about some of these things that you’re wrong about.
Think about what big game release means and 'dragging out development cost' means. Think of some of their inhouse developers. Rare and 343i are good examples. How do you think they have been maintaining an income with such big gaps between a game release?
GaaS exists. You pay a subscription regardless of their output, people buy microtransactions in your game regardless, you don't need a big game release. This is where it's different if your focus is single player games. You need a game release to maintain your income.
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kingfey
Banned
Studios can have multiple projects. Bethesda went from skyrim to fall out 4 pretty fast, plus they did the dlcs for skyrim, the special edition. That is 2 AAA games with dlcs and special edition.
Oblivion=2006
Fallout 3=2008
Skyrim=2011
Fallout 4=2015
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Ms has about 20 devs which make "big" games, with an average dev time of 4yrs thats 5 big games a year, plus another 5 smaller games a year from other teams.
10 games a year is more then enough.
Also a lot of sonys content is timed 3rd party stuff, not the same as exclusive 1st party stuff.
Zenimax is a big deal for Xbox, Zenimax had there own E3 conferences and a lot of years they had the best show, all that content going only to Xbox ecosystem is a big deal, sony will have to continue to do 3rd party deals to keep up.
Spaceman292
Banned
'We want to make video games, but right now we're not,' states video game company.It's not quite there yet, according to Phil
There are a lot of talented developers working under the Xbox banner now, and according to Microsoft's gaming CEO, Phil Spencer, the aim for the tech giant from here on out is to provide an ongoing stream of "great" video game content.
Phil touched on this during the same Xbox Era podcast - noting how Microsoft hasn't quite reached that point yet, as there's no "big game" for this quarter. Here's exactly what he had to say:
Xbox Wants To Provide A 'Steady Flow Of Great Games' Moving Forward
It's not quite there yet, according to Philwww.purexbox.com
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Yeah, I’m not sure what he’s on about. The faster they get their games out on Gamepass, the smaller the amount of money they need to pay external parties to secure content for the service.
Microsoft has stated it multiple times that their acquisition spree is designed to funnel a steady stream of games to Gamepass.
The bar for this thread was already low, but you managed to take things even lower. Well done!
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