Topher
Gold Member
Most of what they are saying has already been said elsewhere.
I think the game will still be great. I have a lot of faith in Playground.
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Fable might have been scaled down due to engine issues and lack of wrpg expertise. Could release later than expected.
Most of what they are saying has already been said elsewhere.
I think the game will still be great. I have a lot of faith in Playground.
Papacheeks
Banned
So now fable titles which have sold millions and have a fairly large following are not good games because you dont like them?
Like what?
Deflection gate is real yall!
Stuart360
Member
Eh?, i'm not saying they arent popular, or even if many people think they are good games. 'I'm saying I dont like them much, and i have tried them all.
I'm British too but i always found the humour facepalm level.
Playground is one of the most talented studios in the industry and they've brought on a lot of really talented RPG devs for their new studio, I think it's pretty safe to assume that the game is going to be great.
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MasterCornholio
Member
I know he doesn’t and he’s been known for making things up. But like you said he does have connections within the industry. And Colt being a religious extremist I don’t think he would make up anything negative about Xbox. That’s one thing I would never expect him to do. Whether or not his sources are correct that’s for you to feel.
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Topher
Gold Member
It is very different when it is coming from a YouTube desperately wanting to be someone important. Everyone knows that.
I think the point is whatever connections he does have hasn't resulted in him actually having accurate insider info. I don't think he makes stuff up, he may think whatever he's saying is accurate but that obviously isn't the case.I know he doesn’t and he’s been known for making things up. But like you said he does have connections within the industry. And Colt being a religious extremist I don’t think he would make up anything negative about Xbox. That’s one thing I would never expect him to do. Whether or not his sources are correct that’s for you to feel.
MasterCornholio
Member
Maybe but it’s true that playground games are not perfect. They can definitely run into issues and still produce a great game. If I was you I wouldn’t take this rumor as an indication of how good the game will be.
mejin
Member
They all dinner at Phil's table in the end.
No doubt they're used to damage control here and there.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Looking at the source and laughing. Nothing spreads faster than negative sounding rumors about Xbox. Everyone trying to capitalize before the showcase makes it much more difficult to get people to fall for bullshit. He will get quite a few views out of this, though, so mission accomplished.
Okay, so have Obsidian cancel Avowed and The Outer Worlds 2 or have Bethesda Game Studios cancel Starfield and Elder Scrolls 6 and whatever plans there may be for a future fallout so they can make Fable? Is that the strategy we going for? Microsoft has a shit ton of studios, enough for them all to build their own desired projects without being tasked to work on things they don't want to. Playground likely chose Fable.
Okay, so have Obsidian cancel Avowed and The Outer Worlds 2 or have Bethesda Game Studios cancel Starfield and Elder Scrolls 6 and whatever plans there may be for a future fallout so they can make Fable? Is that the strategy we going for? Microsoft has a shit ton of studios, enough for them all to build their own desired projects without being tasked to work on things they don't want to. Playground likely chose Fable.
Sure, it's game development, every single game runs into issues.
BoxFresh123
Member
"Could release later than expected". I didn't even envisage this thing coming out any time soon already.
Seems like the best bet for some is to wait another 3-4 years until Microsoft finally gets all of these RPGs out and then just buy a used Series X, get Gamepass for a little while, and play the games, and then sell it afterward.
They don’t really have much exclusive stuff that interests me until these games comes out. Never been a fan of racing games or Halo.
They don’t really have much exclusive stuff that interests me until these games comes out. Never been a fan of racing games or Halo.
Negotiator101
Member
It's now a third person over the shoulder linear action adventure game.
MasterCornholio
Member
The game supposedly early in development so it’s not impossible. I’d be more worried if they run into issues closer to release.
Fredrik
Member
I know they all want to focus on their own projects but come on! If Playground is truly struggling because they lack WRPG experience while they’re under the same roof as Bethesda, Obsidian and inXile, then Microsoft deserve to fail. It’s like if VW would struggle to get their parking assist to work properly while sitting under the same roof as Audi.
TheGodfather07
Member
Let's see what they show on June 12th. It will tell us alot about what's really going on behind the scenes at Xbox. If we get more teasers and short trailers, there's a problem. They need to show actual gameplay presentation for their games.
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Again, there’s zero in that article that says there are any problems or they’re having issues.
The picture the developer painted was of slow and steady development due to this being their first big AAA RPG…and that they’d been hiring to fill gaps.
That’s regular game development.
I know folks here spun that out as a negative or as a sign of a troubled project, but none of that is supported by that interview. I mean the guy takes pains to say the work environment and experience was ‘super nice’, praises the dev team and talks up the potential of the game.
It took Sucker Punch six years to make Ghost of Tsushima, and the devs said similar things about how they had to take time to polish the systems.
Hopefully we learn more about this at the Showcase, but it’s only been in development since 2018 so no real surprise we’re not getting tons of media on it.
nominedomine
Banned
Scaled down? Scalebound?!
I hope not.
I hope not.
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It's a trade-off - but one that's more common occurrence in game industry than is generally known.
I've personally witnessed projects that only survived thanks to a fork - trying to avoid it would have cost the company far more $ overall (and sometimes threatened to sink multiple projects).
Also don't forget this is an industry where single game(s) have sometimes shipped using multiple - sometimes completely unrelated - engines. Most common was separating MP/SP, but there's been other variants. I even know of one example that used multiple engines in a single game mode.
Sometimes 'not doing something/not doing it well' is prohibitively expensive to address/change (or expensive enough to substantially impact the design intents etc.). Costs will obviously impact scope too - but it's not necessarily as simple as scaling back. Projects also go through re-design iterations etc.
How many variations of this uninformed take will we see in every Fable thread?
The game was greenlit in 2017 before any of the RPG studios were acquired. So unless you believe Spencer has time travel or prophetic powers…
Bernd Lauert
Banned
Not only that, it was Playground themselves who pitched the game to Microsoft. They wanted to do this. But that goes against the "Microsoft is mismanaging everything" narrative some have build up, I guess.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
I think this time last year the same narrative of Xbox has nothing for 2021 was going around. By the end of the year it was 'the games Xbox released don't count'.
There supposedly is a showcase in less than 2 weeks it's not too hard to see what shows up there before declaring they have nothing for the year.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
It sounds like they need some outside help.
VN1X
Banned
Gaz from Colts show said fable had to be scaled down due to engine issues and lack of wrpg expertise.
Timestamped. Pinch of salt as always.
Quelle surprise.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
SP and GoT aren't really comparable here IMO, because SP was already used to making third-person action-adventure semi open (or at least games where you can explore environments sandbox style) games before with Infamous and Sly Cooper series. Fable is the first attempt Playground is doing outside of a racing game formula in forever, so they as a development studio don't have any prior experience in other types of genres.
Yes they can hire experience but that isn't the same as having a team of people who've worked together on similar projects in the past having shared experience through those team efforts built up over the years. You can't hire that type of experience tbh. But again, I'm personally not very worried for this game because Playground have been a very consistent studio for MS the past several years. I'm fairly confident they'll have something at least quite fun by the end of this.
However you can't necessarily blame people for wondering if the dev state is particularly bad off considering when the Fable word got out it wasn't long after the reports on The Initiative and also the ongoing issues with 343i, and those weren't that far after hearing about the Everwild stuff. Then you combine the Starfield & RedFall delays recently on top of it and it's not too hard to see if some people think there's a pattern to be had.
But just specifically on Playground Games and Fable, I'm pretty optimistic still.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I think last time I said it I predicted a 2025 game.
Might as well make this a Series Y launch game in 2027.
Might as well make this a Series Y launch game in 2027.
Well you're obviously not to bright if you think jumping from a FPS genre to a 3rd person adventure genre is the same as going from racing genre to a 3rd person adventure genre. You people should be comedians.
SteelCurtain 59
Member
Well those WRPG studios already have tons of projects going on, and the work was started prior to Xbox owning any of them. .... Also, people bitch and moan about 343 and Coalition being "forced" to work on Halo and Gears, why would somebody want them to "force" another studio to be the Fable studio? If playground wanted to make a Fable game why is it a problem to let them make it? Isn't that what we want? Creative freedom for the studios to make what they want to make? As far as I'm concerned Playground making it is the ideal scenario. Bethesda and Obsidian (and inxile) get to continue making the games they want to make, and Playground gets to try their expertise in a different genre. If Fable fails or is underwhelming it doesn't really negatively affect me because Fable was never some beloved IP for me and Xbox has tons of other WRPG's, and if Fable is great than that's awesome because Xbox then has another WRPG studio
Also on topic, why is being "scaled down" being viewed as some terrible thing? Open world games were already too big and bloated a decade ago, let alone now. If it ends up cutting out the "fat" it would be a way better game than just being "big for big sake" like every other open world game.
Captain Toad
Banned
Lack of WRPG expertise? Forza Horizon 5 was a better open-world RPG than any previous Fable games.
I really didn't care for Fable 1 or 2 (didn't bother with 3), but I still think this will be good because I have more faith in Playground Games.
I really didn't care for Fable 1 or 2 (didn't bother with 3), but I still think this will be good because I have more faith in Playground Games.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Well, if any studios are going to get a chance to do a different genre, you got to give a chance at some point. If you guys want to see changes to genre check this out:
Naughty Dog --> Populous looking game called Rings of Power, fighting game Way of the Warrior, platformers Crash and Dax, Crash cart game, action/adventure games UC and LOU
Naughty Dog --> Populous looking game called Rings of Power, fighting game Way of the Warrior, platformers Crash and Dax, Crash cart game, action/adventure games UC and LOU
Hopefully by 2024.
Topher
Gold Member
I don't care about console warrior narratives from last year. And I've already acknowledged that I am talking about what we know right now. Do you really think MS is going to deliver enough games this year to repeat as Publisher of the Year? That was the level of consistency being described that I replied to.
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nominedomine
Banned
With no games released in 2022 and no games announced to release yet MS odds of winning the prestigious PoTY award in 2022 are not great.
But Not all hope is lost, maybe they can win the GoTY for the first time this year with Forza 8.
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oldergamer
Member
Jaffe has no clue about phil spencer. Sorry dont mistake opinion for actual facts
Total stupid post. Not surprised
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Jerm411
Member
None of these XBox Avengers on Twitter/YT know jack shit…they run one Strike with Phil on D2 and suddenly know the roadmap for XBox for the next 10 years.
Only one I somewhat trust is Jez and even he puts some nonsense out there…
lostinblue
Banned
That's a given. I just think that sooner or later "bad methodology" will get to you.
Shit happens when that happens, but yeah, until then you might have shipped one, two... three games. This is an industry that works hard at going forward and doesn't care how well it's done.
That said, if Playground games weren't tidy in the way they manage projects and technology they wouldn't be where they are today and would have hit a wall sooner. I'm sure of that.
That applies to anything that works as a production line. I'm faced with that every week, that said, there's is a difference between crap and good enough. God enough is like a good facsimile, it could have more detail work put into it, but for what it is, it will suffice, crap is... well, crap.
Everything videogame is facsimile of course, but there's also lots of crap.
oldergamer
Member
How hard is it to wait until june 12 before proclaiming nothing coming this year?
Papacheeks
Banned
Again even if after June they showcase a good amount of games some coming later this fall, how many do you actually think will be internally published by Microsoft?
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
In theory, you're right.
But in practice, not every development studio has the capability nor adaptability to be able to develop vastly different types of games.
ND was making 3D platformers at a time when games were VASTLY less complex than they are today. And pretty much everything they've made since the first Uncharted has been similar in scope and design, i.e. 3rd person action shooter.
Studios like GG and Insomniac are the exception, being able to go from making shooters to sprawling open-world RPG games in GG's case, and from 3D action platformers to open-world superhero games in the case of Insomniac.
For every positive example, however, there are numerous examples of dev studios trying something new and biting off more than they can chew: e.g. CD Project Red with Cyberpunk.
Playground games have neither the history nor experience in making anything other than driving games, which as a genre of games is far less complex in terms of design than action games like shooters, open-world action games and exponentially less so than open-world or even semi-open-world WRPGs.
In the latter case, everything from world design, to environmental design, from quest design and the capability of the game logic systems to handle the multiplicative complexity of player agency, makes these games way more complex to design, built, test and optimise than literally any other type of game.
You have a whole class of WRPGs, i.e. Eurojank, of mostly central European devs who have been making these types of games for decades, who still aren't able to achieve top-tier status in all aspects of WRPGs design. Heck, even the biggest name devs in the industry for WRPGs, like Bethesda, Bioware etc completely drop the ball from time to time: e.g. Fallout 76, ME:A.
So expecting magic by a studio that has only ever made relatively simple driving games was always going to be little more than a pipe dream. As cynical as it sounds, there are very good commercial reasons why major AAA publishers generally tend to want to keep genre game developers making games within that same genre (and often even IP). The commercial risks otherwise are often too high, such that only really the most talented devs given sufficient timescales can manage to achieve it.
nominedomine
Banned
As of yet nothing announced.