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Forza Motorsport demo was captured on PC not XSX as stated in the trailer
- Thread starter Solidsnake_1
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Schmick
Member
It's been confirmed by Turn 10
John Wick
Member
Because we've had people like VX Vet tell us different that the consoles aren't powerful enough for this. Any game can have RT in it but at what cost? Is the game gonna be 4k@60fps with RT? Or use FSR or similar to reach that target?
Riky
$MSFT
It's hard to swallow for some obviously, here is the quote.
"Ray tracing is here. It’s on track and most importantly, it’s real-time gameplay,” he said during a live stream. “I really want to make that clear: when we say ‘on track’, it doesn’t mean it’s only in replays or it’s only in Photo Mode on track and we’re just being funny with words."
“We’re not trying to mislead you here. When you’re racing and when you are playing the game, ray tracing is on. We want to be really clear about that"
That's as clear as it gets.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
A few things that I think should be clarified:
-In the Xbox Showcase they never stated the footage was captured on a Series X, it was mistakenly stated in the blog/article later on.
-T10 stated, "The demo was captured in-game on PC, and also tested on Xbox Series X for the same visual quality output."
-Chris Esaki confirmed RT reflections are present on-track, during gameplay on Series X.
-Chris stated in Forza Monthly that the engine has RTGI capabilities, but said it will not be used in gameplay, only "some cases".
-Chris did not state that it will be present in Auto Vista or replays.
-T10 confirmed the game is 60fps with "4K target".
-They did not state that the game is Native 4K, this could mean dynamic resolution with 4K target.
-On FH5 PC running on a 6800 XT, the performance drop from enabling RT reflections in the game was found to be 12-16% by DF.
-In the Xbox Showcase they never stated the footage was captured on a Series X, it was mistakenly stated in the blog/article later on.
-T10 stated, "The demo was captured in-game on PC, and also tested on Xbox Series X for the same visual quality output."
-Chris Esaki confirmed RT reflections are present on-track, during gameplay on Series X.
-Chris stated in Forza Monthly that the engine has RTGI capabilities, but said it will not be used in gameplay, only "some cases".
-Chris did not state that it will be present in Auto Vista or replays.
-T10 confirmed the game is 60fps with "4K target".
-They did not state that the game is Native 4K, this could mean dynamic resolution with 4K target.
-On FH5 PC running on a 6800 XT, the performance drop from enabling RT reflections in the game was found to be 12-16% by DF.
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CatLady
Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
Damn, I wish I liked this kind of racing game. Next gen is finally here; 60fps, 4K and RT, WHAT? This game is lightyears ahead of anything else. Congratz to all you gamers that DO love racing games. It looks like Turn 10 has a big win on their hands.
The only sad think about this game is it seems to have a lot of people really, really shook. I scared this guy is going to have an aneurism:
The only sad think about this game is it seems to have a lot of people really, really shook. I scared this guy is going to have an aneurism:
John Wick
Member
So where is the game? Your legit shook but from what? Light years ahead? Lmfao! A next gen game? Maybe we should all be shook from the next gen games all due in course.
John Wick
Member
Lmfao! It started with people like you coming out with hyperbole. Let the game release. It's 10 months away yet it's clearly the best at everything.
All you have seen is a demo on unknown hardware with replays and CGI spliced in. I'll judge the game when it's in my hands. I'll praise it like FH5 if it impresses me.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
PaintTinJr
Member
Some of us have been thinking about RT for decades in games - like when 320x240 was the output resolution - and how and when it would happen.
Your belief that it should be easy with today's hardware and TV resolutions, even on a game that is opting for deformable car models - that will represent the bulk of the GPU geometry and shading processing because of their very high polygon counts - suggests a distinct lack of technical knowledge of the problem.
Sim racers have an easier rendering situation than some other genres because they are ribbon racers, where the world around the car track has low impact on the rendering problem because the distance and viewing angle of things can be constrained by the track being a ribbon. However sim racers require high frame-rate and feedback that typically require forward rendering, instead of deferred, so the memory stress with every additional complex fx grows quickly to the point of missing your rendering time window (of 1/60 or 1/120), and this is made worse if targeting higher resolution.
In such games the RT might not even yield an noticeable improvement in visual fidelity, so the choice of using a feature might be a developer decision that it isn't worth it.
IllegalLemon
Member
When a debut gameplay trailer mentions the term "Running in-engine", it's basically a telltale sign that it's running on a pc at the max possible fidelity, to show what the graphics would look like when the current iteration of the engine is pushed to its limits. Pretty sure devs were caught before secretly running game demos on the pc and insisting it was being ran on a console. At least tne transparency is refreshing to see!!!
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
That's part of it. Response time it is the other half.
MasterCornholio
Member
Well I still don’t understand how 30FPS can feel like 60FPS. I never experienced this and that’s with perfectly locked 30FPS titles.
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
It can't. But it can feel decent if done right. Personally, 60 or death.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
30 FPS with consistent response and good motion blur can feel very smooth, but obviously it doesn't have the same impact as doubling the frame rate.
But if 30 FPS is someones preferred way to maintain the higher visual features, FH5 has one of the better implementations of it.
MasterCornholio
Member
I don’t have any issues with games offering multiple options. I’d say Insomniac does a great job with that and hopefully more devs adopt what they do.
SteadyEvo
Member
This
JimRyanGOAT
Member
You can see how much Forza is benefiting from focusing on next-gen only
This is gonna be a half-assed gen until people can just walk in and buy consoles
This is gonna be a half-assed gen until people can just walk in and buy consoles
PaintTinJr
Member
With frame-injection as an option I'm not even sure all games are what they say they are, now.
When I tried both modes of FH5 at a friend's on his XsX the 60fps lacked the sharpness of GT6's responsiveness IMO and the 30fps mode felt like treacle, as though it was 20fps with frame injection - neither of us could stand that mode - so I would be interested to know what screen technology you are using if you think that's a good implementation - as a few friends have all commented on how their LG oleds hate 30fps on any game, so in light of your praise for the mode maybe it is an OLED problem with 30fps.
The best implementation of a 30fps game for me I can think of was Mario Sunshine on the cube.
Negotiator101
Member
Sounds like your friend's TV, FH5 is very responsive at 60fps and good at 30fps.
01011001
Banned
This is not the first time they did this. Xbox One titles at E3 running on Nvidia GPU's
and because it's not the first timr we know that if they do this they stay at Console settings and they always try to show how the game will actually run on consoles too.
Negotiator101
Member
The Xbox One hardware wasn't finished at this point, not the same at all. Seriously what's with all the trolling?This is not the first time they did this. Xbox One titles at E3 running on Nvidia GPU's
Team Andromeda
Member
There was no different from the 'E3' showing to the actual game running on a Series X
01011001
Banned
if Microsoft said in the past that what they have shown is resembling console settings it always turned out to be accurate even tho the game was shown on a PC.
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Team Andromeda
Member
We all remember Gears Of War was running on the PC when 1st shown off, still a million miles off SONY altering footage of The Last Guardian or string to pass off CGI as real time with its Motostorm or Killzone 2 E3 footage.
Like I said we all had the same crap when Forza Horizon 5 was shown off at E3 2021 and I can't see any difference between the Series X version was Playground games showed off. They'll be no difference here and the team have a year's worth of optimisation as well
nominedomine
Banned
MS did that with Halo in 2018, why do you feel the necessity to bring back what Sony did more than 15 years ago?
MS released PC footage and claimed it was running on Xbox, it is what it is, no need to come up with excuses and whataboutisms.
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Bernd Lauert
Banned
Coping with the fact that FM looks as incredible as it does
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nani17
are in a big trouble
No company should be doing it. At least tell the people this is running on a PC. Doesn't mean it's going to be worse or anything or It's like cyberpunk with their PS4 trailer complete lies
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Team Andromeda
Member
The game is being developed on the PC and I#m quite sure Turn 10 knows exactly what PC settings match the Series X precisely....No company should be doing it. At least tell the people this is running on a PC. Doesn't mean it's going to be worse or anything or It's like cyberpunk with their PS4 trailer complete lies
Team Andromeda
Member
2018 all MS did was showing off the tech, no mention of what system it was running on, So try and get your facts right on that score and I was replying to someone bring up what MS did in 2005 too, so spare us on bringing up, old game demo's from decades ago
Did you see any difference from Forza Horizon 5 running on the Series X to what the team showed off at E3 ?
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Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Cause he's a warrior
01011001
Banned
show me where they said the 2018 graphics demo for the Slipspace engine was running on a Series X
assurdum
Banned
What it's hard to swallow? Raytracing on reflections was appeared on Insomniacs games at 60 fps from awhile. There exist other platform than XSX, you know.
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01011001
Banned
at 1080p yes. but this targets 4k60 (dynamic resolution of course)
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assurdum
Banned
It's not 1080p eh. It was DRS with lower 1080p and with temporal injenction to reconstruct the 4k res. But if you believe it won't be also the case on XSX too, you are out of your mind. Furthermore a free roam is extremely more taxing than a racing game.
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nominedomine
Banned
Where was it supposed to be running then if it was an engine demonstration that looked nothing like the game when it was released? Did Sony actually say MotorStorm or Killzone were running in real time on a PS3? Seems like the same thing to me, I remember them specifically saying MotorStorm was a target rendering pretty much what the Halo one ended up being.
I also do suspect that that Halo 2018 trailer was fake and not in engine at all given how much worse the actual game looks, how could it regress so much after so many years? Killzone got closer to their target rendering than Halo did, but I guess that's a discussion for another day.
Btw, Sony did learn their lesson after what happened with Killzone and MotorStorm. For some time now they make it clear when it's running on the console, what is gameplay, etc. As it should be, it's way past time for MS to start doing the same thing.
I really doubt you guys would be making as many excuses if it was any other publisher mislabeling PC footage as console footage.
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Negotiator101
Member
Much harder and more processor intensive on a racing game given every car on track is reflective.
assurdum
Banned
We have to see what all cars will reflect and all the possible cutbacks eh. I have great doubt will be feasible to make accurate reflections in every cars knowing the limitations of the AMD raytracing, never seen a single game handle multiple separate reflections in the AMD tech, for now. If I have to say it's better to keep moderate expectations.
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01011001
Banned
it will by dynamic 4k, most likely with a low of 1440p when every car is in front of you in the rain.
SpiderMan is 1440p whenever almost nothing taxing is on screen, basically if you are high up on buildings. as soon as you are in street level it's 1080p. and the reconstruction, great as it may be, can't do miracles, and the game looks 1080p in those moments... a clean 1080p, but still 1080p.
also, it might be more taxing to have an open world game with RT, but that's also why the reflections in Spider-Man basically look like PS2 graphics with ridiculously low LODs and the lowest mipmaps possible. so compromises had to be made there as well.
assurdum
Banned
Most likely based on XSX specs? Are you for real?
01011001
Banned
Sony did say they are running on PS3... they also said the PS3 has 2TF of gpu power btw.
it was not fake, it was an engine demo, a graphics showcase of what their new engine can do. 343i being the dogshit developers that they are, they of course couldn't actually make use of the engine's potential
I would, why wouldn't I... if they corrected it straight away... also this was only mislabeled in an article noone read, you wouldn't even know about that article if this correction wasn't made
assurdum
Banned
Sony has never said ps3 gpu was based to 2 TF. It was about the whole hardware not just gpu eh.
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01011001
Banned
yes I am for real. this is the studio that made a native 4K 60fps racing sim with a perfect framerate and cutting edge graphics run on a last gen system.
this is the same studio that still pushed 4x MSAA in modern games, even tho it is ridiculously taxing, just because they wanted the clean image of MSAA without temporal artifacts.
you know what MSAA is right? MSAA basically renders parts of the image at a higher than native resolution... it's like an optimised version of Super Sampling.
01011001
Banned
that is still a lie, no matter how you calculate it.
edit: just for competition sake, if you combine the maximum theoretical power of both the Cell and the RSX you get 179.2 GF + 192 GF... so 371.2 GF... not even half a TF, less power than the GPU of the the Switch alone
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assurdum
Banned
You are out of your mind. Pray it doesn't go below 1080p via DRS if really it will handle multiple real time reflections at 60 fps knowing how taxing is raytracing on ps5/xsx. Go back to the earth.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Just a few more months and we will see.
Looks pretty damn incredible right now though.
If they nail 60fps and raytracing on series X. It's next level.
Killing it.
drotahorror
Member
Really thought a 'next gen' Forza would have looked way more realistic.
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