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Twitter Death Watch |OT| How long until the bird dies?

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pramod

Banned
I think there's two things we're talking about here.
One is the so-called "hate speech" that triggers people. I really don't care about this because no one is forcing you to go search for hate speech or tweets from people you don't like. And you can always use the block feature.

Then there's the "misinformation" aspect. For this one, I would suggest that we simply set an age limit for Twitter, and kids shouldn't be able to use it without parental approval.
Because I think if you are already an adult, you should have access to any information you want, false or not, and be able to use your judgement. Why do we need to coddle everyone?
I mean I've heard of every conspiracy theory under the sun and I didn't turn out to be some pizza-gate obsessed mass killer.
 
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RAÏSanÏa

Member
You can pretend it has to do with Left Wing whatever all you want. I'm just not gonna risk a ban because you have an axe to grind. So if you want to stick to the kind of dangerous/hateful conspiracies that the discussion was originally about then let's do it.


But if you are going to turn this into a Left vs Right thing I'm out.
It's not even a left/right thing. There's Qonspirators and antivaxxers who were banned that insinuate themselves under a tent but there wasn't an exclusion of the tent and no one wants it that way. Making it seem that the slowly developed standards and legal agreements of Twitter are a left/right existential thing is just politicized alarmist manipulation meant to keep the door open for those few by those few.

I think there's two things we're talking about here.
One is the so-called "hate speech" that triggers people. I really don't care about this because no one is forcing you to go search for hate speech or tweets from people you don't like. And you can always use the block feature.

Then there's the "misinformation" aspect. For this one, I would suggest that we simply set an age limit for Twitter, and kids shouldn't be able to use it without parental approval.
Because I think if you are already an adult, you should have access to any information you want, false or not, and be able to use your judgement. Why do we need to coddle everyone?
I mean I've heard of every conspiracy theory under the sun and I didn't turn out to be some pizza-gate obsessed mass killer.
It might be a bit more complicated than that.
There's also the point that people in the West in any industry, including advertising, who value those things which hate speech targets would be undermining themselves in supporting a service that provides a utility to those looking to organize and harm them.
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
It's not even a left/right thing. There's Qonspirators and antivaxxers who were banned that insinuate themselves under a tent but there wasn't an exclusion of the tent and no one wants it that way. Making it seem that the slowly developed standards and legal agreements of Twitter are a left/right existential thing is just politicized alarmist manipulation meant to keep the door open for those few by those few.

There's no real sensible conversation to be had about Twitter's approach to free speech and moderation when people have a political axe to grind.
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member


I’d be fascinated to know what difference Musk’s ownership would have made to hashtag movements like #releasethesnydercut.

If he manages to stop a small minority of people warping the public discourse, by preventing them from flooding the platform with disproportionate opinion, then that can only be a good thing. For us as end users, and for companies that get convinced into doing the wrong thing, by a small group of rabidly obsessed people.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Its really not as hard as your making it out to be to define it. Theres always context and theres always a track record of behavior that backs these things up.

Kanye saying what he said about Jews is blatant antisemitism, for example. He wasn't subtle about it.

Kanye clearly has ongoing mental health issues; So although I deplore his comments, I'd rather see them challenged and dismissed as the bullshit they are than simply have the man un-person'd.

Especially as the latter is a sure way to reinforce his (and those who share those beliefs') paranoia.

It doesn't make a difference, the moderation needs to be there, thst isn't up for debate.

Expunging whole cohorts of people on the basis of party politics isn't moderation. Minimizing dissident opinion isn't moderation. Encouraging tribalism by othering those who don't follow the group-think is not moderation.


Not being exposed to that trite isn't burying your head in the saying. We know they exist. Most of us good people just don't want to be exposed to it.

So just use the "ignore" button or whatever means is inbuilt in the system.

You do you, but in my eyes when you start demanding that noone else sees what you choose not to, you've crossed the line.


Oh please. We aren't obligated to hear out racists and conspiracy theorists. No one is. Ya know what happens when I don't like the servers in a restaurant? I stop going there, and go to a different one instead.

Noone's forcing you to do anything. So how about reciprocating that courtesy for the rest of us?

This is the essence of the free speech argument.

Standard practice for autocrats is to define a "threat" that they are uniquely equipped to save the masses from, that they alone have the moral fortitude to make the "hard choices" to solve. That the end justifies the means, so if those few "bad" people have to lose their rights and liberties and lives its all for the greater good.

The road that ends with gulags and extermination camps, begins with people losing their right to speak directly or in defence of other people's truth.
 
It is absolutely incredible that they never considered limiting the number of tweets a day an account can create for what, over a decade? It's like nobody ever took a step back and tried to think critically about any of their design or policies.
You're assuming that they didn't know or they hadn't considered capping. Maybe they left it uncapped as intended functionality
 
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Maiden Voyage

Gold™ Member
You're assuming that they didn't know or they hadn't considered capping. Maybe they left it uncapped as intended functionality
See that's the thing, under what use case would an account require unlimited tweeting per day capability? Ever? An even half assed root cause analysis would have come to the conclusion that unlimited tweets is why there is so much spam.

If there was a technical reason, again they should have realized this problem within year 1 and built a solution by now.

ffs even NeoGAF only lets you make a limited number of posts a day.
 
See that's the thing, under what use case would an account require unlimited tweeting per day capability? Ever? An even half assed root cause analysis would have come to the conclusion that unlimited tweets is why there is so much spam.

If there was a technical reason, again they should have realized this problem within year 1 and built a solution by now.

ffs even NeoGAF only lets you make a limited number of posts a day.
What I'm implying is that the intended functionality would be to flood the platform and that Twitter permitted it for whatever reason. Maybe Twitter saw those accounts got attention, which was good for ad revenue. I dunno. But I'm with you on it being an incredible oversight if they were unaware, which is why my mind goes to it being intentionally left in
 
What I'm implying is that the intended functionality would be to flood the platform and that Twitter permitted it for whatever reason. Maybe Twitter saw those accounts got attention, which was good for ad revenue. I dunno. But I'm with you on it being an incredible oversight if they were unaware, which is why my mind goes to it being intentionally left in
Oh I see what you mean - yeah I totally agree, which honestly says a lot about Twitters priorities and goals. In a not good way.

Edit: I mean think about it, Elon just paid $44 billion or whatever for this thing, and within a couple weeks he is removing a feature that allowed inflated engagement and usage metrics - things you would think he would want his new purchase to have as much of as possible. And he did it voluntarily. Twitter must have had absolutely fucked up priorities.
 
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Vestal

Gold Member
It is absolutely incredible that they never considered limiting the number of tweets a day an account can create for what, over a decade? It's like nobody ever took a step back and tried to think critically about any of their design or policies.
*sigh* That's not true.

2,400 per day

Current Twitter limits
Direct Messages (daily): The limit is 1,000 messages sent per day. Tweets: 2,400 per day. The daily update limit is further broken down into smaller limits for semi-hourly intervals. Retweets are counted as Tweets.

All it took was 1 quick google.
 
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Vestal

Gold Member
Thanks. So it was capped, but at "method up speed typer" limits

Edit: 2400 tweets per day, or 100 tweets per hour. Or 1.67 tweets per minute for all 1440 minutes in a day

Oh, only 2400 a day.

Like I've said before, I don't really have a horse in all this. Decisions that puts limits on what users can do on a platform need to be backed up by data. I would assume that twitter has some internal documentation be it requirement docs, meeting notes etc that would probably have the reasoning behind the 2,4k current limit.

Personally, I would take the highest tweet count of anyone tweeting from Ukraine or another conflict zone.. Use that as your upper limit.
 


The real conspiracy right under our nose, while we bicker about Holocaust denial. Turns out, those who whine about fake news the loudest are the worst offenders. And they wonder why people have no confidence in their ability to wield their censorious power wisely. The emperor has no clothes.



wo0yi88.jpg


"Muh gates of hell"

WAPO is having a glorious meltdown and is going into hyperbolic fearmongering mode.
One hit-piece after another, they are so desperately wanting you to hate Musk. The backhanded weasels are also provoking Google and Apple to band the Twitter app.

They are the real hatemongers!
 
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LegendOfKage

Gold Member

I took that as "since I've been here, we haven't banned even one political account that I strongly disagree with, even the ones saying lies." I'm pretty sure all the mentioned accounts were banned by twitter before Musk started running it.

And a side by side shot of those tweets next to a suspended account isn't exactly a smoking gun. He could have been banned for reasons that had nothing to do with those tweets, and I think twitter is still operating with their old moderation rules, at least somewhat. However, I'm not making excuses, just not coming to judgement yet. People should absolutely look into this, and challenge musk / twitter to clarify why he was banned, and if it will be reversed.
 
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Toons

Member
Kanye clearly has ongoing mental health issues; So although I deplore his comments, I'd rather see them challenged and dismissed as the bullshit they are than simply have the man un-person'd.

Especially as the latter is a sure way to reinforce his (and those who share those beliefs') paranoia.

If his paranoia isn't rational then a rational response won't matter. People have called Kanye on his BS for years.

Folks need to realize these guys don't play under the same rules we do. He can quite literslly do almost anything he wants without much repercussion, save for killing; raping, etc. That kind of freedom changes your perspective and Kanye was already an arrogant guy. He doesn't care about what anyone else says or thinks and he won't be convinced otherwise.
Expunging whole cohorts of people on the basis of party politics isn't moderation. Minimizing dissident opinion isn't moderation. Encouraging tribalism by othering those who don't follow the group-think is not moderation.
Theres not been a shortage of members of both political parties on the platform. Most of the ones who got banned for any significant portion of the time were generally ones who either went to extreme lengths or ones who said or did things that violated the site rules.

So really, are thse folks being others by virtue of people part of a certain group or as a result of their conduct not keeping in line with this term of service? Either way it hardly makes a case for there not to be a terms of service.

So just use the "ignore" button or whatever means is inbuilt in the system.

You do you, but in my eyes when you start demanding that noone else sees what you choose not to, you've crossed the line.
You're once again, ignoring that the site has a responsibility to regulate these things. We all understand dthis and agree with it. If someone started posting CP on Twitter and didn't get banned, we'd be looking to Twitter as culpable. This is well understood. Its the same for anything else that violates the term of service. It isn't on the indivudal users to make sure the site doesn't host that. The host is responsible to control what gets hosted.

Noone's forcing you to do anything. So how about reciprocating that courtesy for the rest of us?

This is the essence of the free speech argument.

Its either that I am forced to be exposed to that content by using Twitter, or by using Twitter THOSE folks are forced to regulate what they say. Why would you put the onus on the people who aren't doing anything wrong, rather than those causing the disruption? You csnt have it both ways.

Twitter isn't a free speech platform where anything goes. For obvious reasons.

Standard practice for autocrats is to define a "threat" that they are uniquely equipped to save the masses from, that they alone have the moral fortitude to make the "hard choices" to solve. That the end justifies the means, so if those few "bad" people have to lose their rights and liberties and lives its all for the greater good.

The road that ends with gulags and extermination camps, begins with people losing their right to speak directly or in defence of other people's truth.

Being banned form Twitter doesn't stop you from speaking your truth. Twitter doesn't have gulags. They do have rules through, just like everyone else does. You can follow those rules or you can face the repurcissions that come with not following them. Which; in the case of Twitter means you have to go elsewhere. Hardly an unlivable situation.
 

LegendOfKage

Gold Member
You're once again, ignoring that the site has a responsibility to regulate these things. We all understand dthis and agree with it. If someone started posting CP on Twitter and didn't get banned, we'd be looking to Twitter as culpable. This is well understood. Its the same for anything else that violates the term of service. It isn't on the indivudal users to make sure the site doesn't host that. The host is responsible to control what gets hosted.

Section 230 says otherwise when it comes to speech. Nothing that violates the law, of course, but speech itself is protected. Even if more authoritarian areas of the world end up with a twitter that is heavily censored due to their governments, that doesn't mean the same for the US. Twitter is not responsible for the speech that users post.


Theres not been a shortage of members of both political parties on the platform. Most of the ones who got banned for any significant portion of the time were generally ones who either went to extreme lengths or ones who said or did things that violated the site rules.

So really, are thse folks being others by virtue of people part of a certain group or as a result of their conduct not keeping in line with this term of service? Either way it hardly makes a case for there not to be a terms of service.

I think the real concerns are rules were created and enforced after the fact, rules were made that the majority of society would disagree with, there wasn't transparency, rules were inconsistently enforced due to ideological preferences, and certain people who were not violating any rules were still being intentionally suppressed.
 

LegendOfKage

Gold Member
I’m still trying to see the path forward in making back his investment.
Continue building a platform that can compete for content creators and offer them better monetization for their content. If he can pull that off and either moderate content in a way that users overwhelmingly agree with, or allow users to select their own personalized level of moderation, then it could happen.

If he can get the views and the content, he won't have to worry about advertisers all that much, because they only care about making money. They'll do whatever is most profitable.
 
Would not be shocked if he mysteriously disappeared before he could do that.
The US Government literally depends on him to launch our astronauts to the ISS in addition to military and spy satellites now. He is not going anywhere. I'm sure he has very heavy security around him 24/7 these days.
 

BadBurger

Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Also seems certain that concerns about the infrastructure failing will never materialize:


At this point, about the only exciting thing that will happen is probably months or years away. With that, I'll probably stop following the topic unless something changes.


I am still watching the thread in case there are any sudden bombshells, while like you expecting nothing major to likely occur for a while. That said, keep in mind Musk has a habit of making things up or twisting the truth.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Elon is trolling but there's definitely major part of him that believes anyone who works for him should put work/career before family which in my opinion is a lot of what has destroyed society, particularly in office environments pre-covid.

The chase of financial gain over basic humanity is half of the worlds problems.
Hard work, smarts and endlessly failing before finally succeeding (ie. a person or company coming up with a cure which took $10 billion in R&D and 30 years of manpower) is what has got humanity to where it is now. If work was assumed to be easy, we'd all be living like pilgrims with shitty log cabins and drinking river water.

Coasting in life on other people's backs is the easy way out. And because modern day life has so many things automated, a lot of people expect easy life and easy bucks doing a shit job which can be replaced by high schoolers.

Some companies demand long hours, which in return often pays well. Other jobs people can chill out with a steady 9-5 job.

Life rewards big bucks to people who put in more time, got the smarts, and simply (supply and demand related) know how to score a high paying job simply because it's hard to replace them. Instead of having 200 people apply with qualifying skills, there might be 2 people who can do the job.
 
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DragoonKain

Neighbours from Hell
Let's be honest, if you dump more sewage into a sewer, are you gonna notice a difference?

The platform is already full of toxic people, this likely won't make a difference.

I don't know how he's going to tell who was banned for what though unless there's notations under what are millions of banned accounts and he goes one by one which he obviously isn't going to do. Nor do we know the posting history of all the accounts, so not sure how it would even work.
 
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Vestal

Gold Member
Continue building a platform that can compete for content creators and offer them better monetization for their content. If he can pull that off and either moderate content in a way that users overwhelmingly agree with, or allow users to select their own personalized level of moderation, then it could happen.

If he can get the views and the content, he won't have to worry about advertisers all that much, because they only care about making money. They'll do whatever is most profitable.
Personally I would never view Twitter as a content creation platform, I have always seen it as a gateway to content.
 

BadBurger

Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Hard work, smarts and endlessly failing before finally succeeding (ie. a person or company coming up with a cure which took $10 billion in R&D and 30 years of manpower) is what has got humanity to where it is now.

Coasting in life on other people's backs is the easy way out. And because modern day life has so many things automated, a lot of people expect easy life and easy bucks doing a shit job which can be replaced by high schoolers.

Some companies demand long hours, which in return often pays well. Other jobs people can chill out with a steady 9-5 job.

Life rewards big bucks to people who put in more time, got the smarts, and simply (supply and demand related) know how to score a high paying job simply because it's hard to replace them. Instead of having 200 people apply with qualifying skills, there might be 2 people who can do the job.

We as a society have been and continue progressing just fine without reverting to these archaic concepts, IMO. I make plenty of money and do my part in making advances in my field, serving as part of a greater whole, without sacrificing my well being and the things that make us all human - things as fundamental as a healthy and happy family life. I view these kinds of harsh views of work (particularly in my field of IT and tech) akin to the days of warehouse labor prior to unions and regulations. Unhealthy not just for the individual, but for society. It only serves the person at the top of the given pyramid.

Edit: Look at the practically slave labor in China building our iPhones. That's paradigmatic of this outlook towards work. The world doesn't need to have fabrication concentrated in these factory towns like this. They're like the textile mills of old. But this is precisely how those on top would like all industries to be if they had their choice.

Just my view on things.
 
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