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Microsoft's internal documents recognize that adding games to Game Pass would lead to cannibalization of Buy-To-Play sales
- Thread starter DeepEnigma
- Start date
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Exactly.
Buying up all the top 3rd party publishers and their IPs makes sense with this now doesn’t it?
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
No. We are mad that we were being manipulated by Phil Spencer into accepting that game subs were the future and that companies like Sony needed to follow suit and put all their 1st party games on a sub or die to the hands of MS and Gamepass.
Pyral Phoenix
Member
Well, I always thought that MS would release games on multiple platforms to mitigate that.
Getting the hype from GP and making the sales on steam, epic, Nintendo and PS
making use of the prolonged exposure.
That needs quality games which they should be aiming for
Getting the hype from GP and making the sales on steam, epic, Nintendo and PS
making use of the prolonged exposure.
That needs quality games which they should be aiming for
FunkMiller
Gold Member
How anyone believed anything different is amazing to me. If you can get a game 'free' via a ten dollar a month subscription that can be cancelled any time, why on earth would you even consider purchasing the game at full - or even half - price?
a multicultural team of v
Member
Microsoft is trying to get Sony to charge too little to support their game budgets by dragging them down into subscriptions, and Sony is trying to get Microsoft to spend more on their game budgets than a subscription can support by continuing to release games with crazy production values.
One is working.
Sony wouldn't be fighting the Activision deal do hard and putting anti-gamepass clauses into agreements if it's current strategy is working. A less biased summary is that Microsoft is applying an unproven business model trying to compete in a different way and Sony is using it's position as a market leader to protect the status quo.
R3claimer117
Member
So this has to be about Sony and not that there can be two different successful models out there. Do both of the big console manufacturers have to do everything the same? Both are a succcess at this point Sony is successful in their model and Microsoft is successful with gamepass I’m sure gamepass will grown when the acquisition is complete. Microsoft got great news today the fact that the CMA didn’t come out and say no even though Microsoft didn’t offer no remedies to begin with is good for them closing this deal. I’m sure their model will become more successful. I’m sure Sony will continue to put out big budget bangers everyone wins.
a multicultural team of v
Member
Yeah I guess it wasn't fair to say only one of them is working, because it is far too early for that.
edit: Nintendo is the real winner anyway because they have small budgets AND charge premium prices
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Jigsaah
Gold Member
This is expected, especially for games at otherwise available at full price.
Even in the case where there are indie games, I would imagine most people would download the game, play it to beat it or to the point that they became bored with it, and move on to the next.
There are some cases where I have bought games that I first experienced on Gamepass and even bought all the DLC for it. Stellaris is one example of a game I personally have done this with.
As people, sadly, start to migrate away from the idea that they should own their games, people just won't buy...they'll just subscribe. I still will buy the best AAA's and Indies at full price if they are worth it.
As for Phil. Did he say sales increase in all or even most games when included on Gamepass? I was under the impression that this was on a game by game comparison.
Like for example, I would not believe that say, Plague Tale Requiem sold more since it was on gamepass. Though I'm sure they got a healthy sum from Microsoft to include it.
Even in the case where there are indie games, I would imagine most people would download the game, play it to beat it or to the point that they became bored with it, and move on to the next.
There are some cases where I have bought games that I first experienced on Gamepass and even bought all the DLC for it. Stellaris is one example of a game I personally have done this with.
As people, sadly, start to migrate away from the idea that they should own their games, people just won't buy...they'll just subscribe. I still will buy the best AAA's and Indies at full price if they are worth it.
As for Phil. Did he say sales increase in all or even most games when included on Gamepass? I was under the impression that this was on a game by game comparison.
Like for example, I would not believe that say, Plague Tale Requiem sold more since it was on gamepass. Though I'm sure they got a healthy sum from Microsoft to include it.
Torrent of Pork
Banned
I've bought a shit-load of games as they leave Gamepass if I want to keep them that I never would have bothered with in the first place if I had to pay full price while they were in the zeitgeist.
Feel free to keep jerking the narrative though.
Feel free to keep jerking the narrative though.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
Past marching order narratives are crumbling.
Is this not true for most game releases 12 months post release? Discounts, DLC, minor marketing pushes etc post launch are quite similar to GP in that respect. All designed to boost sales back up on the inevitable sales decline.
It also does not factor the whole equation e.g. MTX, DLC, passes/subs, sales when a game leaves GP etc.
It's ok, MS will find similar out of context nuggets during the course of regulation and/or courts.
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GhostOfTsu
Banned
Yep and even Phil himself was attacking Sony about it. They want to bring them down with them...but consumers said no.
Sanepar
Member
It is not just that. If they lock enough content why they will let u buy their games? U can't buy office anymore. U need to subscribe. Only dumb people don't see what they are doing.
Probably we will have tiers and all games will be available only through subscription charging you 30-40 bucks per month to own nothing.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Obvious from the start and software sales on Xbox have only confirmed this but it’s funny seeing it out in the open like this.
MS’s gamble with gamepass has always been to devalue games so much only a mega company can compete.
MS’s gamble with gamepass has always been to devalue games so much only a mega company can compete.
This
gothmog
Gold Member
And while that was happening Jim kept on making bank on the services we did have. People calling anything Sony is doing a GamePass competitor is some of the most hilarious shit ever.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Just wait until their OS is sub only. Large parts of it already are, and it will continue to boil the frog to the cloud based sub OS product. This has been talked about years ago.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
You mean like Google workspaces/docs being given away for free in basic versions but charging subs for cloud storage/business use or free apps included with Apple/Google phones by default rendering office not mandatory or even an optional after thought? You know the sort of thing MS windows/browser/office anti-trust was all about decades ago. I don't see you crying foul that Google only offer a cloud solution and sub but not buy outright option, ever.
You're free to not sub mate. You're free to purchase office (outright without sub) and/or video games with or without GP at any time. It's not like they have a gun to your head. Plenty of competition is out there.
Or perhaps you mean like the tiers of Playstation subs?
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Just look at the people who liked this post and you'll have a who's who of xbox stans:
fallingdove
Member
What are you talking about? Businesses launch things all the time without knowing if they will be profitable. Subscription media has been always been a risky play, there are many more failures than there are successes.
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Baki
Member
Same can be said about Netflix. Highest tier is $240/year. Why not just rent or buy stuff from iTunes.
gothmog
Gold Member
No, because this model isn't working the way Xbox is envisioning it without billions in parent company investment.
Netflix used its own success to fund its future success as a comparison.
Baki
Member
Slight correction. You can still buy Office.
oldergamer
Member
Nearly all business cases start off unprofitable. What you mentioned is normal
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
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El Pistolero
Banned
Exactly what the regulatory bodies have concluded...You're on to something here, young Poirot!
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
I pretty much assumed that something like Forza Horizon 5 would have projected sales lower with a gamepass release. But something like Gang Beasts or 40K Battlesector I can see getting a sales bump from a gamepass release due to increased word of mouth.
SRTtoZ
Member
My biggest issue with GP is there is no real incentive to come up with masterpiece games anymore. They are better off coming out with a bunch of 7/10 games more frequently than a 10/10 that takes 5 years to develop. Discovery mentioned this when they said HBO Max won't release big movies on their sub anymore and are moving back to movie theaters, because that's where the money is. You get a small bump in subs when a new big movie comes out but not big enough to make a dent. So down the line I see MS just releasing games more frequiently with less and less quality just to keep people from cancelling their subs. Maybe they'll prove me wrong but I already am tired of GP. I keep thinking of cancelling my sub but I'm really just too lazy to do it lol.
All I know is I stopped buying Xbox games on sale because every time I did, the following month I would see the game get a game pass release so I'm like wtf is the point now. I can't remember the last time I bought an Xbox game tbh.
All I know is I stopped buying Xbox games on sale because every time I did, the following month I would see the game get a game pass release so I'm like wtf is the point now. I can't remember the last time I bought an Xbox game tbh.
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oldergamer
Member
Sure there are lots of businesses out there that have no idea if they will turn a profit and most of those die.
You would have to be very naive to think that one of the largest software companies in the world, launched gamepass without knowing how many subs were needed to turn a profit. Seriously that doesn't jive.
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Sleepwalker
Member
I mean this is obvious, theres a reason they dont report sales of anything and only number of players.
Hell there was a guy in the Hogwarts Legacy thread saying hed need to wait for the game go on gamepass to play it.
A game that has no affilitation with game pass or MS but that's the mentality these sub services bring.
(No offense to the poster, just an example)
Hell there was a guy in the Hogwarts Legacy thread saying hed need to wait for the game go on gamepass to play it.
A game that has no affilitation with game pass or MS but that's the mentality these sub services bring.
(No offense to the poster, just an example)
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TheUndeadGamer
Member
Just wanted to correct the bolded and say you can still buy Office without subscribing. It’s currently available for year 2021.
jakinov
Member
What’s wrong? You’re making an argument against something that was never said. It’s obvious that if you get the game from the service you won’t buy it. All that’s said by him is that lots of people having access to the game can have a positive effect on sales from people hopping on because of the popularity.
If a game is not available on a subscription service that lots of people already have then yes you’ll probably end up with more copies sold, even so when buzz is driving up acquisition. no one at at least Microsoft said anything to suggest otherwise and they don’t really care because that’s the tradeoff of the subscription model.
jakinov
Member
People say stupid shit. But this isn’t a big gotcha moment for Microsoft.
Also, I don’t know many people that believe or say that it doesn’t cannibalize game sales. The biggest debates here I’ve seen is whether or not a subscription service is sustainable or if it’s ultimately good for the developer to be on these services.
GHG
Gold Member
I don't know how many times I've seen someone write: "Will wait for GamePass release" or "If it's not on GamePass it's not for me"
Like saying you'd wait for all movies and shows to release on Netflix. With that mentality you don't deserve great games.
Saw that in the Hogwarts Legacy thread the other day. Sensational game and these people are just cutting their noses off to spite their face at this point.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
It was one of the biggest talking points. Hence why they said Sony should do the same.
bentanchorbolt
Banned
Like Netflix has done, as they are now the only streaming platform left with no competition.
Sleepwalker
Member
TheDreadLord
Member
Is Netflix harming the industry? Why are all big companies/studios creating their own streaming service?
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Do they also have internal documents recognizing earth's gravity though?
Because it harmed the industry irrepairably so there's no alternative to doing that now.
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bentanchorbolt
Banned
Often times being patient is the reward. Less cost to play a game and for those games that come 6-12 months after launch, you’re getting the better version of the game after several patches, etc. There are games that if I purchased at launch I’d likely not touch it for half a year because I have more going on in my life than just video games.
Gambit2483
Member
"By putting our movies on Netflix, DVD & Blu Ray sales have been healthier than ever!" - No one ever
Yoboman
Member
Yeah let's not follow MS's own data from the whole userbase, one anecdote from Torrent of Pork should be enough
Mr.Phoenix
Member
I can't call it ignorance. Dunno if it's fanboyism. Don't know if it's just some sort of collective brainwashing or something.
But the number of blatant brain farts I am seeing in this thread is flat-out disturbing.
I guess, as they say, common sense isn't common.
But the number of blatant brain farts I am seeing in this thread is flat-out disturbing.
I guess, as they say, common sense isn't common.
TheGodfather07
Member
I knew Microsoft didn't know what they're doing but fucking hell, they're totally clueless and desperate. They have no vision or plan at all. It's even worse than I thought it was. Who can ever believe a word they say after this? It's not even spin. They straight up lie! Phil Spencer is pretty much done after this. Microsoft will replace him with another face that spouts bullshit for them.
sachos
Member
That was one of the concerns all along right? Devalue games so much that people no longer want to pay for stuff but it's obvious that if the game is good people will buy it (GoW, Elden Ring, Hogwarts). One interesting data point would be how much sales for games that are NOT on GamePass have declined, since now a lot of users are trained to "wait for GamePass". Is that even possible to calculate?
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