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[NeoLed]

How anyone believed anything different is amazing to me. If you can get a game 'free' via a ten dollar a month subscription that can be cancelled any time, why on earth would you even consider purchasing the game at full - or even half - price?

Purchase

• Have money : buy games
• Low money : play owned games

Game Pass

• Have money : pay subscription
• Low money : can't pay subs therefore can't play games

 

[AmuroChan]

Yup. Eventually MS is going to increase the price of GP and at some point it won't be the "best deal" in gaming, but you'll be too locked in to make a choice.

I can see GP going for $30/month at some point. $20 is certainly on the horizon within the next 2-3 years.

Price increase over time is a certainty. I'm ok though going month to month at that point. When they release a first party game I want to play, I'll sub for that month and then cancel.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

Yeah let's not follow MS's own data from the whole userbase, one anecdote from Torrent of Pork should be enough

IDGAF about corpo financial statements so long as I get a smorgasbord of videogames at a reasonable price.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Man this year has been such a great year for Xbox so far.

 

[FunkMiller]

Purchase

• Have money : buy games
• Low money : play owned games

Game Pass

• Have money : pay subscription
• Low money : can't pay subs therefore can't play games

The GamePass subscription amount is considerably less than the cost of buying a game. So, not only do you get a game for 10 bucks that you would have paid 70 bucks for elsewise, you also get to play all the other games on GP.

Your example only works for people who can't even afford the 10 bucks a month. Which is going to be a far smaller number than those who can afford 10 bucks for a month, but don't want, or can't spend 70 bucks for the full price game.

 

[00Magnum Gaming]

What a day man. I’m loving it.

the hate lol

 

[Belthazar]

Anyone that thought any different was either lying or dumb

But Phil Spencer said...

He was the one that was lying and the people who believed him are the ones that are dumb.

 

[DeepEnigma]

What’s wrong? You’re making an argument against something that was never said. It’s obvious that if you get the game from the service you won’t buy it. All that’s said by him is that lots of people having access to the game can have a positive effect on sales from people hopping on because of the popularity.

If a game is not available on a subscription service that lots of people already have then yes you’ll probably end up with more copies sold, even so when buzz is driving up acquisition. no one at at least Microsoft said anything to suggest otherwise and they don’t really care because that’s the tradeoff of the subscription model.

Ok.

No amount of mental gymnastics can paint anything different than what MS said internally. They even knew damned well before even launching the service.

Games don’t sell more that appear on it. They even admitted they lose sales. Argue with them.

 

[M1chl]

This thread has some severe case of virginity around

 

[Nocturno999]

MS exlusives keep selling like hot cakes on Steam even with GP on PC, so I'm not sure how bad it affects them or if the leak is true.

 

[Gambit2483]

That was one of the concerns all along right? Devalue games so much that people no longer want to pay for stuff but it's obvious that if the game is good people will buy it (GoW, Elden Ring, Hogwarts). One interesting data point would be how much sales for games that are NOT on GamePass have declined, since now a lot of users are trained to "wait for GamePass". Is that even possible to calculate?

I have Gamepass and despite all of the great games on that service, e.g. Halo series, Forza Horizon 5, Flight Sim, wtc etc. I've only ever wanted to actually purchase one game...and that's Hi-fi Rush.

I'm sure there are thousands if not millions of other Xbox owners like myself that have no interest in purchasing (m)any of the titles on Gamepass.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Did you even read the Spencer the article you posted or did you just read the headline?

Spencer is talking about how the more people who play a game the more popular it becomes socially and so people without gamepass end up buying the game. Even the author of the article acknowledges that’s what is meant by his words. It’s obvious that if you pay for a subscription to play a game, you probably won’t buy it.

It’s Phil, so they either don’t read or they draw their own conclusions based on emotions. It’s bizarre the way SonyGAF is obsessed with what he says. But yes, even if they read it, they make up their own interpretation. Like the other day in the acquisition thread you had people arguing that when he said GamePass is profitable, he actually wasn’t being honest, or maybe was being honest, but profitable in that case doesn’t necessarily mean profitable It’s why I stay out of most of these threads.

 

[sn0man]

We all kind of knew this. PS, Nintendo, Xbox, or PC, it doesn’t matter.

There is quite a logical leap to think paying less than SEGA channel to get access to Xbox one and series games was never always going to last or be a recipe for profit.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

...these people are just cutting their noses off to spite their face at this point.

Not really, some people want/need to save a buck and don't live by FOMO. Given your reply here I don't think you even have empathy for such, let alone consider it a viable option for some gamers e.g. wait for a better deal than launch prices.

 

[PisswasserYellow]

Fucking Stevie Wonder coulda seen this coming. I'm expecting them to roll out a tiered service at some point where only the premium tier will get day one releases and likely cost twice as much as gamepass in its current state. My sub runs for another year and a half or so, and while it has been a really good deal for me, I just don't think this model is sustainable without significantly increasing the price.

 

[Germuso]

 

[Germuso]

Mistake

 

[ShadowkillXNA]

What’s wrong? You’re making an argument against something that was never said.

Pure horseshit from you here.

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/phil-spencer-game-pass-leads-to-more-game-sales

"When you put a game like Forza Horizon 4 on Game Pass, you instantly have more players of the game, which is actually leading to more sales of the game," he said.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Pure horseshit from you here.

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/phil-spencer-game-pass-leads-to-more-game-sales

"When you put a game like Forza Horizon 4 on Game Pass, you instantly have more players of the game, which is actually leading to more sales of the game," he said.

I swear man. People will cognitive dissonance anything when it’s right in front of their faces.

 

[fallingdove]

Sure there are lots of businesses out there that have no idea if they will turn a profit and most of those die.

You would have to be very naive that one of the largest sofware companies in the world, launched gamepass without knowing how many subs were needed to turn a profit. Seriously that doesn't jive.

Knowing what profitability looks like and how to obtain it are two very different things. Just because Microsoft is a large corporation doesn’t mean they are guaranteed access to the latter. You would have to be very naive to think otherwise.

 

[In Cold Blood]

Umm sure, the people who have GP will play it on there rather than buy the physical copy.
In other news, water is wet.

 

[mckmas8808]

MS exlusives keep selling like hot cakes on Steam even with GP on PC, so I'm not sure how bad it affects them or if the leak is true.

If they sell so much why don't they ever release data on how many they sell?

 

[yurinka]

Phil Spencer: Game Pass leads to more game sales

This past weekend's X018 event was, arguably, a two-hour long advertisement for Game Pass, and given what Microsoft gam…

www.gamesindustry.biz

Edit:

Well, it's pretty obvious.

Most people only play a game during one or a few days, so prefer to rent it -specially if available in the subscription day one- for a cheaper price than to buy it.

In addition to this, the more time people spend playing games of the subscription, the less time these players have to play bought games. Meaning they'll buy less games and will spend less money on them.

Relative to what?

To their own previous numbers before GP.

 

[A.Romero]

I can only speak for myself but Microsoft has seen more money from me in the past 2 years than ever before. I wouldn't buy Forza nor Gears for that matter.

 

[Jaybe]

I swear Phil’s misleading statements on this plus the bone-to-pick Descenders dev tweets, and ambassadors just ran with it thinking nonsense like FH5 sold more than FH4, and confusing player counts with sales copies.

 

[poppabk]

To their own previous numbers before GP.

But nearly all games would show a decline in sales of some percentage after 12 months (unless they are GTA5). I'm guessing they are talking about sales of catalog games like Skyrim, else it is hard to see how this is anything but stating the obvious - that game sales decrease over time.

And for day one gamepass games there is no before they were on gamepass.

 

[Edmund]

I have a friend with a nice job, makes more than he spends, etc. He's dying to play dead space remake but has decided to wait for it to go on gamepass lol

Havent seen him buy a game in years, he just plays whatever they serve him.

Seems horrible to me.

I know a couple of people who make 7-8 thousand a month but they pirate games. I keep telling them to buy games on sale, but nah, they'd rather pirate. Disgusting.
The piracy is disgusting but the lack of respect for every single person developing the game is even worse. Imagine being entitled to games free of charge. It's no coincidence that these people I know are people with terrible morals.

 

[yurinka]

But nearly all games would show a decline in sales of some percentage after 12 months (unless they are GTA5). I'm guessing they are talking about sales of catalog games like Skyrim, else it is hard to see how this is anything but stating the obvious - that game sales decrease over time.

And for day one gamepass games there is no before they were on gamepass.

I think that when they say 'decline in base game sales' and 'cannibalisation of B2P sales' they mean a decrease in the total revenue coming from purchasing any Xbox games, independently if added in GP or not.

Or that in game series that have a certain long term sales pattern (bumps in new game releases, then a valley with old legacy game sales until the next release) if added to GP they experience a decrease in game sales more visible after a year of adding it to GP.

Or that the game sales of a specific title during its first year when released day one in GP are smaller than the previous ones of games of that series that weren't included day one on GP.

In any case, means that focusing on GP is making them to earn less money from selling games.

 

[Heisenberg007]

One email and two memos. Yeah, thats hard evidence. Also the % could be 50% or 0,0043%. Who knows right?

Well, it was big enough for Microsoft to hide.

 

[akaFullmetal]

 

[Alan Wake]

Interesting quote from Phil Spencer:

He actually said that. I wonder what his explanation for Halo Infinite's poor sales is.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Time for someone to search who were the people who believed this BS from the snake oil salesman and sold it as gospel.

It was funny to see people say that Gamepass leads to more sales in the very same threads where others were saying that they've stopped buying games because of Gamepass lol

 

[Heisenberg007]

I'm not a shareholder in MS so I couldn't give a shit how much money they make or don't make on their division. Game Pass is a good deal as far as I'm concerned.

I think that short-sightedness is a problem and the main ideological different between Xbox and PlayStation fans.

Every bad decision by a business has a cost that ultimately consumers pay. If bad decisions cost Xbox money and decrease their profitability (or increase their operating loss), it will lead to poor games, low-budget games, fewer games, worse partnerships, development problems, price hikes, etc.

Unfortunately, we are already seeing ALL of these problems plaguing Xbox. That price is ultimately borne by Xbox gamers.

As Jim Ryan said, "Success begets success."

At some point, even consumers have to care about the profitability of the business they care about.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

I think that short-sightedness is a problem and the main ideological different between Xbox and PlayStation fans.

Every bad decision by a business has a cost that ultimately consumers pay. If bad decisions cost Xbox money and decrease their profitability (or increase their operating loss), it will lead to poor games, low-budget games, fewer games, worse partnerships, development problems, price hikes, etc.

Unfortunately, we are already seeing ALL of these problems plaguing Xbox. That price is ultimately borne by Xbox gamers.

As Jim Ryan said, "Success begets success."

At some point, even consumers have to care about the profitability of the business they care about.

I care in the sense that they need to do good enough to keep going on and ideally making good games, but my role in all this is buy hardware and software. Outside of that I have little impact.

It would suck if MS decides to leave the gaming business due to failure, but the market always corrects.

 

[adamosmaki]

Yeah no shit. Did a lot of research went into that?

 

[Ronin_7]

People still believe in Phil Spencer shit

 

[Chronicle]

Day one is not feasible. COD will not be day one.

 

[Benniewise de Clown]

I care in the sense that they need to do good enough to keep going on and ideally making good games, but my role in all this is buy hardware and software. Outside of that I have little impact.

It would suck if MS decides to leave the gaming business due to failure, but the market always corrects.

What would be bad about MS leaving?

With PC, Nintendo and Sony, there is enough healthy competition between the three, each having their own games libraries and distinctions.
Each platform also bring their own innovations.

MS is just a disruptive factor.

MS going 3rd party could work, though.

 

[Gamerfan81]

Akshually, this is the kind of thing you launch losing money hoping that the advantadges further down the line put you in a dominant position to increase prices after you've smothered competitors.

Pretty much this. And if the Activision deal goes through expect Microsoft to looking into other purchases. I wouldn't be surprised if they go for Take Two or see if they can acquire a Japanese developer like Capcom, Konami, or Square Enix, though from what I've read it would be very difficult but not impossible for them to acquire a Japanese developer.

Someone here mentioned it, they are using the Netflix blue print. Get a shitload of subscribers during the cheap phase and then raise the prices of the service substantially, also known as foot in the door technique in psychological studies.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

What would be bad about MS leaving?

With PC, Nintendo and Sony, there is enough healthy competition between the three, each having their own games libraries and distinctions.
Each platform also bring their own innovations.

MS is just making a disruptive factor.

MS going 3rd party could work, though.

It would be bad for the industry if Sony was the only high end console. A lack of competition stifles innovation and leads to pricing that takes advantage of consumers.

 

[Benniewise de Clown]

It would be bad for the industry if Sony was the only high end console. A lack of competition stifles innovation and leads to pricing that takes advantage of consumers.

If the current situation continues, Sony will pretty much be the only high end console anyway.
It's inevitable.

PC will be there to compete with Sony, at a higher cost but with benefits that consoles don't have.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

If the current situation continues, Sony will pretty much be the only high end console anyway.
It's inevitable.

PC will be there to compete with Sony, at a higher cost but with benefits that consoles don't have.

The Xbox is going well, just not as good as Sony. If the “correct situation” continues then Xbox won’t be going anywhere.

 

[baphomet]

I've been saying this for ages now. Physical Xbox games sales have fallen off a cliff. A game that would have sold a few hundred copies across a few stores now barely sells double digits across those same stores.

Thus used game sales of newer first party games are also non existent because no one purchased the games to begin with.

So they've been successful in killing used game sales of their first party releases. If someone without a ton of money wants to play Halo infinite they basically have to sign up to Game Pass to play it because there's not going to be any 14.99 used copies on the shelves a few years down the road.

 

[Boss Mog]

Not only does it cannibalize sales but it allows MS to think it's okay to release a AAA game in chunks. If Halo Infinite had been retail only, there's no way they would've launched it with just the multiplayer and told fans: "you'll get the campaign soon and then you'll get the co-op campaign many months later and maybe Forge 2 years later."

 

[Benniewise de Clown]

The Xbox is going well, just not as good as Sony. If the “correct situation” continues then Xbox won’t be going anywhere.

Xbox isn't going well, that's wishfull thinking.

Even when we have Spencer come out and say GP isn't enough to sustain Xbox and they need the mobile market to stay relevant, we have people looking the other way and say all is fine.

That's just being delusional at this point.

MS throwing money around is a final attempt due to desperation, nothing more.

 

[Three]

Anyone with common sense knows that.

Phil has worsen the value of xbox IPs. I used to buy Gears Halo and Forza Horizon ultimate Ed day 1...now I saw I will just play them for 1 dollar.

What's the issue if the quality hasn't dropped though? I'm not saying it hasn't but it seems strange to be upset about paying less.

Be happy that you only paid a dollar but also be thankful you aren’t one of the crazys who pretended gamepass increases game sales.

 

[j.k.2021]

Lol, Everyone knows that.All the Xbox first party games that gets added to game pass losses sales as people don't have any reason to buy them.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

Xbox isn't going well, that's wishfull thinking.

Even when we have Spencer come out and say GP isn't enough to sustain Xbox and they need the mobile market to stay relevant, we have people looking the other way and say all is fine.

That's just being delusional at this point.

MS throwing money around is a final attempt due to desperation, nothing more.

Weird. Consoles are selling well, Game Pass subs are going up. I get it tho. Sony is doing better therefore Xbox must be losing money and on the verge of shuttering.

 

[j.k.2021]

But Phil Spencer said...

and his ”ambassadors” and employees spread it

People love to misinterpret Spencer.It's about games like High on life which would never get this popular if not for game pass release.

High On Life Dev Says Game Pass Titles Sell 7 Times More Than Those Off The Service​

High On Life Dev Says Game Pass Titles Sell 7 Times More Than Those Off The Service

Justin Roiland made sure to do his due diligence on Microsoft's subscription service.

www.thegamer.com

 

[ProtoByte]

either they belongs to Microsoft, or they knew the sales outside of gamepass is going to be bad.

The funniest part is that a lot of 3rd parties have always had trouble on Xbox. If you weren't a "dudebro" game, sales on Xbox were disprotionately lower. Despite being a heavily pushed timed exclusive, Rise of The Tomb Raider damn near flopped on the console. Despite coming out a year later, the PS4 version was one of Square's named reasons for a record profitable-year.

Gamepass has only, and could only ever worsen that effect. This is partially why it's become very easy for Sony to negotiate marketing rights and timed exclusivity.