theclaw135
Banned
In effect, it is. Most people refuse to buy PC games that do not have a version, or iteration in some form, available on Steam.
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Dolphin on Steam Indefinitely Postponed Due to Nintendo DMCA
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
In effect, it is. Most people refuse to buy PC games that do not have a version, or iteration in some form, available on Steam.
Krathoon
Member
Well, those roms are their games. I see that as a kind of justice for Nintendo to make a profit off of it. Thank you, pirates.
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
DMCA is pretty broad, it can include things that are framed as tools for enabling piracy, even if they are not pirated themselves. Like DVD decrypters, for example.
BlackTron
Member
The reason I didn't think this was a good idea is because it could well backfire and hurt the scene. Now Nintendo has what they need to shut down Dolphin completely. Don't get cocky drawing attention yourself while helping everyone play copyrighted IP. The more this kind of stuff is pushed, the closer we get to a law or precedent change that is disastrous to the whole emu scene. For you to be saying this AFTER this chain of events happened, is a moronic hot take.
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Sleepwalker
Member
I doubt that's most people, steam zealots are just loud but not a majority. Either way, even if it was the majority, it still doesn't make it a walled garden. Just because you choose to stay inside the garden doesn't mean there's a wall around it.
Sleepwalker
Member
They found copyrighted code within the dolphins source code.
They do have a problem with retroarch, they just can't do anything about it because none of the code it uses belongs to nintendo.
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Dream-Knife
Banned
I am one of those people, but that has nothing to do with being able to install any game you want on PC or even Steam deck. You can even add non-Steam games and applications to the Steam launcher.
Rykan
Member
That is not even remotely true. There are several different gamestores on PC from which you can buy games from. Besides that, some of the most popular PC games aren't even on steam.
"Nintendo Karens Unite"
Tams
Member
There is. Try taking your Steam games elsewhere.
Marvel14
Banned
Can someone explain why a company protecting its IP and hardware ecosystem is such a bad thing?
Dolphin on Steam Indefinitely Postponed
It is with much disappointment that we have to announce that the Dolphin on Steam release has been indefinitely postponed. We were notified by Valve that Nintendo has issued a DMCA against Dolphin's Steam page, and have removed Dolphin from Steam until the matter is settled. We are currently...dolphin-emu.org
I get that folk like to be able to play Nintendo games on PC for free but why should Nintendo be happy to oblige?
Anyone (without being wealthy already) here work for free or give away their house to strangers for free?
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
cartman414
Member
I think the most heinous thing related to Nintendo right now is the recent homebrew circumventing 3ds update. I mean, it's a defunct platform, and the games are mostly abandoned at this point.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
The Roma is mine and none of you touch it!
Why would you want to do that
hemo memo
Gold Member
Or a copy.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Sentenza
Member
1- You are not the gatekeeper of what "done correctly" means.
2- So what? You are not legally mandate to "own a Switch" (or any other console) to begin with. Just an original copy of the game.
3- Not sure how TOTK is even relevant, given we are talking about DOLPHIN, which is a Gamecube/Wii emulator. One of the very few that doesn't even need a copy of the original BIOS because the devs reverse-engineered that too, incidentally.
hemo memo
Gold Member
Same as torrent but it is mostly used for piracy though. Let’s be real.
Marvel14
Banned
How do you ensure all games emulated are bought and that proceeds go to the creators and rights owners?
Sentenza
Member
"None of your business" would be the primary answer. It's not anyone's business to "ensure" it.
Also, by formulating the question that way, are you implying that buying an used copy should be illegal, too? Because the money there surely do NOT go to "creators and right owners".
That aside, you could apply the same question to original hardware, incidentally: "How do you ensure people don't 'crack' their Nintendo consoles and play pirated games on a NAND?" (which many actually do)?"
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brian0057
Banned
You can't without turning into XCP-rootkit-era Sony.
But gamers covering copyright violations under the guise of "game preservation" aren't doing themselves any favors. Emulation wouldn't be as big as it is without piracy. Let's not delude ourselves here.
Sony tried to outlaw emulation, lost, and set a precendent. Thus, Nintendo can't do anything about it... as long as the emulators don't use code owned by the company, which is what Dolphin did and RetroArch didn't.
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01011001
Banned
the same way buying an overpriced used copy of a discontinued system ensures that proceeds go to the creators and righrs owners
Sentenza
Member
There's no need to "delude ourselves" because it's not relevant. It's a tangent issue that STILL doesn't make emulation illegal at its core.
Can emulation be used to experience pirated content? SURE.
Do a lot of people use emulation to pirate games? No doubt.
Does this make the existence of emulation illegal and negates that there are proper, legitimate use cases for emulation? Nope, it doesn't.
01011001
Banned
the only way to legally emulate TotK is to own a Switch due to multiple reasons.
the main reason being that that's the only legal way to get the game onto your PC
brian0057
Banned
Read the rest of my comment. I said Nintendo can't do anything about emulation because Sony already tried that and lost.
Emulation is fine as long as there's no copyrighted code within the emulation software. This is why they're going after Dolphin and not RetroArch which, by the way, is already on Steam.
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Tams
Member
But the reason they are going after Dolphin now and not earlier is likely because of the decision to put it on Steam.
It's made it much more prominent and reduced barriers to its use (even seemingly small barriers have a large effect - that's just human psychology), this painting a bigger target on its back.
Marvel14
Banned
As an economist I am required by law to inform you that the initial transaction benefitted the rights owner.the same way buying an overpriced used copy of a discontinued system ensures that proceeds go to the creators and righrs owners
Sentenza
Member
The reason they are going after Dolphin now after 15 years is because they are corporate shills who think (and probably rightfully so) they can bully the Steam release out of existence by merely throwing a tantrum and unleashing their horde of capricious lawyers, even if they don't have any particularly solid legal standing.
And it's not really surprising to see who are the usual suspects defending them.
And it's not really surprising to see who are the usual suspects defending them.
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01011001
Banned
that's not the point. you literally can't buy a gamecube game anymore that would in any way directly benefit Nintendo.
and the older the hardware, and the rarer the game, the worse this gets, where the only legal way of getting a copy is by paying inflated collector item prices, all of which the rights holder doesn't benefit from in any way
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Marvel14
Banned
I want to understand the argument. Is it:
1. company is so successful it can afford to subsidise the few clever clogs that know how to emulate.
2. Emulation is like buying a used game ( but I assume you don't need to own any legit copy of the game or hardware (used or new) to emulate - is that right?
If 1. then I don't think it's legit. Can you imagine Concerned Ape working 5 years on Stardew Valley and then saying "sure a few thousand people can own it for free - what do I need the money for?" although he might if he's already made $50 million. Problem is companies have to keep spending on staff and investment and always have the threat that the competition will obliterate them. Concerned Ape doesn't have to worry about any of that.
If its 2 and you do need legit copies then I think emulation is fine because those copies will have originally benefitted the rights holder/ content owner. If you don't then looks like argument 1 applies.
01011001
Banned
well apparently they do have legal grounds to go after them if they actually package in copyrighted keys
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Exactly my position.
Emulating retro/discontinued stuff is great, but when a system/title is still being actively sold I don't see how anyone can argue that isn't directly competitive. And if you go head to head you rightfully should expect pushback and probably a legal fight.
Jinzo Prime
Member
Tring to put Dolphin on Steam was stupid.
Trying to put Dolphin on Steam containing illegal keys is retarded.
Oh, and Nintendo did not send a DMCA notice. Valve asked NOA if it was okay to allow Dolphin on Steam, and they said no.
Trying to put Dolphin on Steam containing illegal keys is retarded.
Oh, and Nintendo did not send a DMCA notice. Valve asked NOA if it was okay to allow Dolphin on Steam, and they said no.
DryvBy
Member
This is a problem with the legal system. Cases eith 0 legal grounds should be thrown out and then the company fined heavily for pulling a fast one.
NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
… to protect their properties? They’re doing it just right. It’s some of you who don‘t seem to learn this.
Was it ever proven that Nintendo was behind that one? They’re pretty open with their DMCAs.
People who own and want to emulate on a Deck can probably find a turnaround for this.
pepodmc_
Member
Take it easy miyamoto, it seems you will need to learn too
Marvel14
Banned
Yes that's right but the physical thing changing hands was originally purchased to the benefit of the rights holder...and reselling used property without benefiting the original seller is how markets work so I personally think if the actual hardware/software is owned and that content is then emulated then emulation is not piracy.
Sleepwalker
Member
Nah, I bought the game AND a switch OLED and I play it on the switch. I'm a sucker for native hardware but let's be real, the emulator in question is for 2 dead platforms, Nintendo no longer sells or distributes gamecube or wii consoles/games, neither do they offer a way to purchase and play the content legally on their current platform.
Hell, they shuttered the eshop for the 3ds and Wii u a few days ago, for good.
bender
What time is it?
They've brought back other "dead platforms" in the form of Virtual Console and Nintendo Switch Online offerings for NES, SNES, GB, GBA, and N64. They are continually expanding that offering so as hardware improves, we are likely to see similar offerings for more modern platforms. That doesn't even take into account re-releases, collections, and remasters. Just because something isn't available today doesn't mean there are no plans for it in the future. With the prevalence of these type of offerings, I'd expect Nintendo and other companies to be more judicially aggressive, right or wrong.
Sleepwalker
Member
The virtual console was fucking awesome.
A few select games being tied to an online subscription with no way of purchashing them, not so much. As I said, I dont really emulat3 much if at all, I'm actually in the middle of restoring my GC to replay F zero GX. But I cant blame people for wanting to emulate.
bender
What time is it?
I'm not blaming anyone or against emulation. Hell, I mostly bought a Deck for Gamecube emulation (which, as an aside, is pretty disappointing tbh). Trying to get Dolphin on Steam was always strange to me and similar to fan projects being announced before completion and then getting shut down by the rights holders. I just think there are more reasons than ever for companies to get litigious over these matters.
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01011001
Banned
yes, but it's simply a fact that noone benefits from a used copy of a rare SNES game being sold online, aside from the guy selling it, that probably got lucky and found it on a flea market or something.
the original purchase is irrelevant if the game is no longer being distributed in an official way.
this means practically speaking, buying a used copy of such a game has no positive or negative consequences for the rights holder of the game, and neither does downloading a ROM.
I also feel like abandonware should officially be established as an exception to the copyright law, while currently it's a massive grey zone
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LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
I can go to Antarctica where they will be afraid to send lawyers my way.
I'm at the large glacier South Pole, 96598.
I'm at the large glacier South Pole, 96598.
NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
Well here’s the thing.
They… uh… actually, you know… own the damn file.
Not as in “we’ve bought the original cartridge”.
They, well, fucking made the game in the first place. They are the one single subject in the world that can say this, and consequently, they can do the fuck they want with it.