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[Dick Jones]

I'm not sure what excuses you guys are talking about, the creators of the game have said it's a deliberate choice in favor of fidelity.

Obviously on powerful PC rigs that choice isn't an issue.

I dont understand your last comment as it clashes with what Spencer said. The consoles aren't the problem as Spencer said, they chose not to have a 60fps version even though the consoles could output 60fps.

 

[Superkewl]

But what about the elephant in the room? As in, if X drops from 4k to xyz, where does 1440P drop down to on S?

720p? Or just don't give the S a performance option. Isn't that what cyberpunk did?

 

[RickSanchez]

I dont understand your last comment as it clashes with what Spencer said. The consoles aren't the problem as Spencer said, they chose not to have a 60fps version even though the consoles could output 60fps.

It's probably PR-written phrasing just repeated by Phil. They're saying it to soften potential backlash. Trying to trick people into thinking 30 fps is good enough if the frames look pretty enough.

 

[feynoob]

Good grief, i hope atleast PCs are spared from this 'Creative' choice.

I basically just blew a month's salary on a new 4090.

At least for us pc dudes, Bethesda is among us and mods will fix their mess.
Can't say the same for games like Jedi survivor.

 

[Heisenberg007]

The visuals are incredible, especially consider that amount of scale and ambition in place.

Next-gen incredible?

I still don't understand the scale part. And I'm honestly being serious, so please share why you believe it has a huge scale (which could specifically affect graphical fidelity).

• It only renders one planet at a time.
• Unlike Skyrim, there is no gigantic world. It's split into 1,000 planets.
• Most planets would obviously be barren and for resource hunting. Very much like Death Stranding. But significantly smaller than Death Stranding's open world.
• But unlike Death Stranding, which was hand-crafted, these planets will be procedurally generated.

So my question is, if the game is rendering only 1 small planet at a time -- and when you take off, land on another planet, you wait on a loading screen where the game dumps everything from the previous planet and loads the new planet stuff -- where's the unprecedented level of visual scale coming from?

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Man, Phil continues to bring the child out of people.

Creative choice = obviously referring to the CPU doing the work it’s doing and prioritizing that over frame rates.

“but but PC!!! ”

A PC can easily have better hardware than a console. They don’t have to make the same compromises.

 

[M1chl]

Just shut up, holy shit

 

[Gudji]

The visuals are incredible, especially consider that amount of scale and ambition in place.

What? It looks good not incredible wtf are you guys smoking?

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Agreed, maybe if they push the graphics even harder then can get that frame rate down to 15fps...I really think 60fps needs to be the bare minimum this gen and going forward for both XSX and PS5, they could have easily done a 1440p/60 with this game

The XSX,a 12TF console,is doing 4K@30fps. The XSS, a 4TF console is doing 1440p@30fps... so you trying to say that with 3x the power they couldn't get the Series X version to run at 1440p@60fps? Or if that's too much use some sort of reconstruction from ~1200p up 1440p and run that at 60fps.

Unless what they are calling 4K@30fps is not even native 4K and is being reconstructed from 1440p or something or the game is crippled by the CPU.

 

[bender]

Since when is the position of objects not being rendered stored in the cpu?
Isn't that what memory/log files are for?

Who mentioned anything about the CPU? We are talking about the engine that Bethesda uses. No idea if another engine will allow for object persistence and permanence as we don't see many games with the same design ambitions.

 

[HL3.exe]

I think lots of people here read his statement wrong. With the 'rendertime' thing he mentioned, he described what different developers do with that budget (wide or depth). Bethesda's stuff uses intense CPU cycles for simulation purposes. So that's where they spend it on. It not strange that above 30fps is more difficult to reach when a lot of unpredictable stuff is happening, as supposed to something that's highly scripted and a controllable rollercoaster ride, were dev know how to allocate render budget. Bethesda's 'choice' was to spend it on dynamic 'possibility spaces' and simulation.

He worded it pretty poorly and easily clippable.

(I'm on PC, do I don't care either way)

 

[M1chl]

We know that decades old engine with ducktaped features on top of that house of cards, will have massive overhead. Fuck, just don't say dumb shit, put it on Todd, he handled worse.

 

[Dick Jones]

It's probably PR-written phrasing just repeated by Phil. They're saying it to soften potential backlash. Trying to trick people into thinking 30 fps is good enough if the frames look pretty enough.

Sack the PR then. Terrible phrasing.

 

[mrqs]

The XSX,a 12TF console,is doing 4K@30fps. The XSS, a 4TF console is doing 1440p@30fps... so you trying to say that with 3x the power they couldn't get the Series X version to run at 1440p@60fps? Or if that's too much use some sort of reconstruction from ~1200p up 1440p and run that at 60fps.

Unless what they are calling 4K@30fps is not even native 4K and is being reconstructed from 1440p or something or the game is crippled by the CPU.

If the game is CPU limited, it doesn't matter how much stronger the GPU is.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

Xbox gamers deserve the option for 60 fps in their games. No if and or buts.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

I listened to the full quote and don't think what he said is that stupid.

It's a creative choice to put more stuff into the render path that makes the hardware take up to 33ms. That's not to say we can't hope for HDMI 2.1 120Hz TVs to get VRR going and get a 40FPS average in some parts of the game.

This has nothing to do with that time Ubisoft executives and engineers were making those stupid "cinematic" statements to justify Assassin's Creed Unity releasing at 30FPS.



However there's something a bit silly here when we think there's already two Series xboxes out there with two performance targets validated by developers. They could just put the Series X running the Series S code/assets and at that point it would probably run at 60FPS or more.

 

[feynoob]

Next-gen incredible?

I still don't understand the scale part. And I'm honestly being serious, so please share why you believe it has a huge scale (which could specifically affect graphical fidelity).

• It only renders one planet at a time.
• Unlike Skyrim, there is no gigantic world. It's split into 1,000 planets.
• Most planets would obviously be barren and for resource hunting. Very much like Death Stranding.
• But unlike Death Stranding, which was hand-crafted, these planets will be procedurally generated.

So my question is, if the game is rendering only 1 small planet at a time -- and when you take off, land on another planet, you wait on a loading screen where the game dumps everything from the previous planet and loads the new planet stuff -- where's the unprecedented level of visual scale coming from?

You will know that when the game launches.

 

[adamsapple]

I dont understand your last comment as it clashes with what Spencer said. The consoles aren't the problem as Spencer said, they chose not to have a 60fps version even though the consoles could output 60fps.

They could have it but they would obviously need to make cut-backs. Todd doesn't want to make cut-backs. He wants the full phat fidelity. He's literally said so himself.

Any game can have a 60 FPS mode if the developers want to make enough cut-backs. That part is not a question at all.

 

[Filben]

This guy has finally lost his mind. Can somebody please get him off the stage before he shits himself?

 

[NickFire]

They could skip the 60 FPS mode from Series S. Would be bad but not this bad.

I think that should be an option. But I doubt they want every website throwing shade at S, and every comment section / message board screaming "GOTCHA" on the eve of their biggest two game launches of the generation so far. I'm convinced they start adding it to X versions quietly over time post-launch whenever they can do it one X but not S.

 

[Quantum253]

People bitched about the graphics. They made huge upgrades those come at a cost.

That's crazy how 1:1 those images are (not in image quality, but in design)

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

PC is different than consoles.
We have the luxury of changing the graphic settings unlike consoles.

Our pain arse is the port, which was not nice this year.

Please don't do this... I have mad respect for you. Don't start taking like a PR head too.

They can have different graphic profiles on consoles too. They can use reconstruction on consoles too.

I don't even have a problem with the game being 30fops. If that's what they want o do then that's ok. As long as it's a locked and steady 30fps.
My issue is with what Phi said, and anyone that tries to defend that kinda BS.

All the guy had to say was for now the team's focus was on quality and completion, and maybe they explore having higher performance settings after the game is done.

 

[GymWolf]

Bro, Bethesda games on PC are notoriously bad optimized. Try running a 2015 Fallout 4 at a rock solid, locked 60FPS. Shit’s not easy.

As long as I can drop a spoon on the ground on some random moon and it will still be there 500 hours of gameplay later, I’ll be happy. That’s why Bethesda games are so damn impressive.

Yeah, that feature alone is worth having buggy games with shitty performances...

I was about to ask what were those incredible dynamic system you saw that other open world like far cry or elex don't have but i knew that the response was "if i place a fork in a place it stays there", it is kinda of a broken record at this point.


Fallout 4 was just a mediocre fps with shitty writing, no complicated systems or sandbox gameplay whatsoever, i need more than promises about those incredible systems after their last 2 games.

A day\night cycle, an animal ecosystem, spaceship battles, make your own ship and procedural planets are nothing new dude, scope alone is meaningless if the content is low quality.

 

[feynoob]

Please don't do this... I have mad respect for you. Don't start taking like a PR head too.

They can have different graphic profiles on consoles too. They can use reconstruction on consoles too.

I don't even have a problem with the game being 30fops. If that's what they want o do then that's ok. As long as it's a locked and steady 30fps.
My issue is with what Phi said, and anyone that tries to defend that kinda BS.

All the guy had to say was for now the team's focus was on quality and completion, and maybe they explore having higher performance settings after the game is done.

Phil is pr merchant. You shouldn't even pay attention to his words.

 

[ANDS]

People bitched about the graphics. They made huge upgrades those come at a cost.

Man literally says it isn't a platform issue. Like, if his point was "Look, we have to make performance versus creative decisions here and we decided the scale of SF needed to change with regard to framerate", then say that, not this hacky muddled response. The only people who would have an issue with them saying this is neckbeards who are insistent on fighting their fight; most everyone else would have been "Yeah, makes sense."

 

[-COOLIO-]

Man, Phil continues to bring the child out of people.

Creative choice = obviously referring to the CPU doing the work it’s doing and prioritizing that over frame rates.

“but but PC!!! ”

A PC can easily have better hardware than a console. They don’t have to make the same compromises.

Pretty much. Phil is saying the game could be locked 30 or fluctuate from 30-60 but it can't be 60 at all times. So you pick consistency or partial 60fps. That's very much a creative choice. I think people are being intentionally obtuse but I'm not sure why.

 

[Dick Jones]

They could have it but they would obviously need to make cut-backs. Todd doesn't want to make cut-backs. He wants the full phat fidelity. He's literally said so himself.

Any game can have a 60 FPS mode if the developers want to make enough cut-backs. That part is not a question at all.

You're wrong, Spencer said the consoles were powerful enough to handle 60fps.

The game is coming to the Series S so your fidelity comment is in ashes there. The Series X should be able to run 60fps at a better or at least par resolution than the Series S at 30fps.

Why would the PC get 60fps?

 

[adamsapple]

That's crazy how 1:1 those images are (not in image quality, but in design)

It's because they're the same location.

 

[NickFire]

Pretty much. Phil is saying the game could be locked 30 or fluctuate from 30-60 but it can't be 60 at all times. So you pick consistency or partial 60fps. That's very much a creative choice. I think people are being intentionally obtuse but I'm not sure why.

VRR????

 

[Negotiator101]

Just stop man...

You gave an example using APT.. that isn't even an open world. You were countered with HFW, that not only is open-world, but looks and performs better than APT.

Then now you are talking about it being cross-gen? What has that got to do with anything? Is it open word or isn't it? Does it look better or doesn't it? You talk this stuff about cross-gen shit when in truth you should know better... don't game engines scale?

What is the most technically innovative and demanding game on the market right now across consoles and PC? Yup... if you guessed right, you would find that it's a cross-gen game too.

Just stop moving posts.... its a bad look.

OK, let's look at Horizon forbidden west as it seems like this is the go to game when discussing why Starfield should be 60fps. Its a pretty game on the face of it but there's very little going on under the hood. Starfield is a simulated living world, with many underlying systems. They're simply not comparable on a technical level. If one were to compare both to a sandwich, Starfield would be steak and cheese while Horizon would be wafer thin ham sandwich, get what I'm saying?

 

[Gudji]

This guy has finally lost his mind. Can somebody please get him off the stage before he shits himself?

Honestly after seeing that Sarah yesterday I'm wishing Phil stays.

 

[alphachino]

Imagine choosing for your game to be shit instead of giving players the choice. Phil - the biggest liar in the industry.

 

[DryvBy]

I'm not sure what excuses you guys are talking about, the creators of the game have said it's a deliberate choice in favor of fidelity.

Obviously on powerful PC rigs that choice isn't an issue.

You keep ignoring this, Phil. Address it.

This topic is saying it's not because of the platform so having a more powerful platform isn't the issue. By some contrast, the Xbox is powerful enough but they're sticking with 30fps for creativity purposes. This. Is. The. Topic.

Stick to the topic and stop changing it to something no one is talking about.

 

[Dick Jones]

Honestly after seeing that Sarah yesterday I'm wishing Phil stays.

Maybe Phil need the Independence Day score on the background when he talks too.

How was that allowed? I felt sorry for her as it was obviously pre recorded and added afterwards.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

If the game is CPU limited, it doesn't matter how much stronger the GPU is.

If the game is CPU-limited yes. That why I said, unless its crippled by the CPU.

Either way, that still comes back to it being a hardware issue. Which I have no problem with, but have an issue with Phil dismissing or trying to gaslight people.

Phil is pr merchant. You shouldn't even pay attention to his words.

I try not to, but damn.. the things he says.

 

[Quantum253]

It's because they're the same location.

Well, shit I must have missed that in the demo. I thought everyone was in spacesuits. That's cool that you can do a space western type character

 

[sankt-Antonio]

What he saying is that clearly the hardware is capable of running games at 4K60, as other titles have shown.

But creatively they decided instead to push the visual envelope, scale, FX, etc. and prioritized that rather than prioritizing a 60fps experience.

No, thats not what he said. You are projecting so that what he said suits what you wanted him to say. He is spinning the PR wheel hard.

 

[adamsapple]

You're wrong, Spencer said the consoles were powerful enough to handle 60fps.

The game is coming to the Series S so your fidelity comment is in ashes there. The Series X should be able to run 60fps at a better or at least par resolution than the Series S at 30fps.

Why would the PC get 60fps?

Todd Howard: Starfield Locked At 30FPS On Console For 'Consistency'

Bethesda's long-awaited space fantasy won't have a performance mode on Xbox

kotaku.com

We do lock it at 30, because we want that fidelity, we want all that stuff. We don’t want to sacrifice any of it.” The longtime Bethesda game designer added that the game is “running great” and even sometimes at 60fps. “But on the consoles, we do lock it because we prefer the consistency

You keep ignoring this, Phil. Address it.

This topic is saying it's not because of the platform so having a more powerful platform isn't the issue. By some contrast, the Xbox is powerful enough but they're sticking with 30fps for creativity purposes. This. Is. The. Topic.

Stick to the topic and stop changing it to something no one is talking about.

Man ..

the topic: "it's a creative decision"
Todd "we want the full fidelity so we're locking it at 30"
adam "they've locked it deliberately to avoid a scaled back 60 FPS version"

I'm literally saying the same thing ...

Y'all just want my blood ..

 

[Putonahappyface]

Phil Spencer: Starfield being 30fps is a "creative choice", not a hardware issue.​

 

[Heisenberg007]

OK, let's look at Horizon forbidden west as it seems like this is the go to game when discussing why Starfield should be 60fps. Its a pretty game on the face of it but there's very little going on under the hood. Starfield is a simulated living world, with many underlying systems. They're simply not comparable on a technical level. If one were to compare both to a sandwich, Starfield would be steak and cheese while Horizon would be wafer thin ham sandwich, get what I'm saying?

Horizon has flying and underwater exploration. Starfield doesn't even have that. Also, Starfield doesn't have big giant machines with destructible components that take a lot of CPU calculation and power!

(Am I doing it right? Totally ignoring that no 2 games will be alike in everything and one would be doing things differently than the other?)

 

[-COOLIO-]

VRR????

Would be great but that doesn't imply consistency either. it just means you're getting your full bang for the buck on the frames between 30 and 60.

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

I dont understand your last comment as it clashes with what Spencer said. The consoles aren't the problem as Spencer said, they chose not to have a 60fps version even though the consoles could output 60fps.

If you believe this is true I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Todd Howard: Starfield Locked At 30FPS On Console For 'Consistency'

Bethesda's long-awaited space fantasy won't have a performance mode on Xbox

kotaku.com

Why not offer a 40 FPS option then if it is indeed running near 60?

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Pretty much. Phil is saying the game could be locked 30 or fluctuate from 30-60 but it can't be 60 at all times. So you pick consistency or partial 60fps. That's very much a creative choice. I think people are being intentionally obtuse but I'm not sure why.

Console wars + Papa Phil

 

[adamsapple]

Why not offer a 40 FPS option then if it is indeed running near 60?

I'm hoping they do, there's still time before launch and most devs don't exactly promote a 40hz mode.

Lies of P's demo has a 40hz mode and it was never mentioned by anyone before the demo came out.

So let's see.

 

[Banjo64]

 

[Investor9872]

Of course it is. That's common sense. When you're designing a game around a piece of hardware, obviously the capabilities of that hardware (and how far you want to push it) are taken into consideration.


If they wanted to scale back systems, scale, lighting, texture detail, ambient occlusion, resolution etc.. etc.. they could've made a game that ran at 60fps on Series X.


That's not what this game is though.


Again, buy a high end PC if you want 4k/60 visuals. We're only going to continue to see these concessions more and more on these consoles as the generation goes on.

The problem with your statement is that Phil states that the 4K30 fps is a "Creative choice, not a hardware issue". If it's a creative decision, then it should be 30 fps on PCs as well. If it's runs higher than 30fps on PCs, then Phil Spencer is as much of a liar as Todd Howard.

 

[analog_future]

No, thats not what he said. You are projecting so that what he said suits what you wanted him to say. He is spinning the PR wheel hard.

You're the one that's projecting so that it suits what you want him to say.

 

[SCB3]

In all fairness, the game looks very interesting and fun to play. But statements like this by Phil just doesn't help the game.

Also, I don't care, it had to have a 60 FPS option. Look at this negative PR now, despite a very good Starfield showing. It is almost like they didn't learn from Redfall. Give a 60 FPS option at launch, drop the resolution to 1080p and lower the visual settings if you want, but give people the choice.

More importantly, don't defend the stupidity by calling it a "creative choice." You're insulting gamers by spinning it like that as if they can't smell the bullshit, and that won't fly well.

Some good points and yea giving the option for 1080p 60fps is ideal, especially for people like me who don't even play in 4k atm

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Todd Howard: Starfield Locked At 30FPS On Console For 'Consistency'

Bethesda's long-awaited space fantasy won't have a performance mode on Xbox

kotaku.com

Man ..

the topic: "it's a creative decision"
Todd "we want the full fidelity so we're locking it at 30"
adam "they've locked it deliberately to avoid a scaled back 60 FPS version"

I'm literally saying the same thing ...

Y'all just want my blood ..

But its not about Todd, its about Phil. Lol. Phil spinning his PR wheel is the topic. You cant just change who this topic is about...