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Microsoft Amy Hood Says Xbox Console Hardware Sales Had Weaker Than Expected Performance

James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
Xbox hardware is dead. Its fine that it exists, but Microsoft won’t be able to get out of this without going third party

If Starfield and Halo won’t move the needle, nothing will

Their entire first party games are being sent to die
 
I said it in another thread but I don’t see why Microsoft just doesnt off the option to Install windows on an Xbox.

Don’t ship with it, but like developer mode where you have to actually buy a Windows key like you would a pc.

On boot you either get the option to Xbox or your windows install.

You have potential console customers who just want a console/ Xbox experience.

You have people who want a cheap pc.

Or people that will use it for both.

They could do it sure but it really wouldn't do much for them at all and would just be a bit of a waste of time.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
Indiana Jones has over 7 million views in just 12 days on just Bethesda's channel.

Zero chance it cracks 10 million in sales. It's GamePass fodder that appeals to the 40+ crowd and not the 12 - 24 year old crowd. It'll be hot with the out of touch videogame podcasters for about 6 days and then everyone will move on.

XBox has been operating like it's 2012 for a while now. Truly bizarre leadership over there.
 
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HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
Xbox hardware is dead. Its fine that it exists, but Microsoft won’t be able to get out of this without going third party

If Starfield and Halo won’t move the needle, nothing will

Their entire first party games are being sent to die
I think those games could move the needle the problem is how those games launched.

I go back to a story I have told here a few times when Phil and Ybarra were first showed the Halo Infinite trailer that gave us the Craig meme, Ybarra actually laughed out loud and thought it was a joke and when he realized they were serious Mike even said we can't show this.

Phil gave it the greenlight and only after the ridicule did they try and fix it delaying as long as they did.

Starfield was much the same story

Everyone knew it was coming in hot but the powers that be at Xbox/MS (mainly Phil) wanted it out the door.
 

Nydius

Member
Exclusives like Indiana Jones, Avowed, and Stalker 2 this year will help alleviate that.

I guess instead of the annual "This is the year of Xbox!" yelling, it's now just rattling off a list of hopium games.

Last year we were all told that it was going to be the revival of Xbox with Redfall, Starfield, and Forza Motorsport.

Frankly, I still expect both Avowed and Indy to get delayed. One need simply look at Xbox's history with vague release windows.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
There was still hyping after that.
Hyping doesn't happen exclusively pre-release.
I mean, hype kind of does mostly happen pre-release. Reality happens at release. Nobody was hyping Hi-Fi Rush as a game that would sell consoles. The conversation post-release was about being able to play it on PC, thus it not being able to move consoles.

I realize the comment I first replied to was just a snarky console war hot take, but it just seemed odd to me that you would include Hi-Fi Rush in a list of games hyped to sell consoles when it never had a hype cycle.
 

Mister Wolf

Member
I guess instead of the annual "This is the year of Xbox!" yelling, it's now just rattling off a list of hopium games.

Last year we were all told that it was going to be the revival of Xbox with Redfall, Starfield, and Forza Motorsport.

Frankly, I still expect both Avowed and Indy to get delayed. One need simply look at Xbox's history with vague release windows.

And these upcoming exclusive games will be added to those exclusive games, expanding the catalog. In 2025 we will get likely get Fable and Clockwork Revolution. I expect Doom to return soon as well. Id has to be working on something all these years. We already know Machine Games is working on Quake. This is how you entice people to buy your console.
 

FingerBang

Member
If the rumors circling around on a few DIscord servers are true, the announcement of MS going full multiplatform might happen this week.

Afaik their strategy won't change much, Xbox won't disappear, and they're not getting rid of the hardware (for now). They should announce they're focusing on bringing more games to other consoles, which technically doesn't go against what they've been saying so far
 

Del_X

Member
Pretty sure the BoM on these consoles has dropped substantially over the last couple years. They should just be selling them at cost. That’s probably a $350 XSX and $229 XSS.
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
If the rumors circling around on a few DIscord servers are true, the announcement of MS going full multiplatform might happen this week.

Afaik their strategy won't change much, Xbox won't disappear, and they're not getting rid of the hardware (for now). They should announce they're focusing on bringing more games to other consoles, which technically doesn't go against what they've been saying so far
Does it start with seeing something like Sea of Thieves on PS being shown at the State of Play today?

Lots of rumors swirling
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Pretty sure the BoM on these consoles has dropped substantially over the last couple years. They should just be selling them at cost. That’s probably a $350 XSX and $229 XSS.
I don't know...Phil mentioned when they raised the price of the Series S in Brazil recently it was still the lowest margins in any region.




"Upon being questioned further, the Microsoft Gaming CEO exclaimed that the increase in Xbox Series X|S pricing didn't have a huge impact on the company's profit margins and it is probably "the smallest margin in the world". However, Microsoft's primary aim with Brazilian markets is to be future-proof and in a position that actually prioritizes longevity over financial gains, said the executive."

I always bring this up lately because margins is such a hot topic these days.
 

James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
I think those games could move the needle the problem is how those games launched.

I go back to a story I have told here a few times when Phil and Ybarra were first showed the Halo Infinite trailer that gave us the Craig meme, Ybarra actually laughed out loud and thought it was a joke and when he realized they were serious Mike even said we can't show this.

Phil gave it the greenlight and only after the ridicule did they try and fix it delaying as long as they did.

Starfield was much the same story

Everyone knew it was coming in hot but the powers that be at Xbox/MS (mainly Phil) wanted it out the door.

Halo Infinite and Starfield both had good reviews though. Both games have flaws, and I personally think Starfield is an awful game but Halo is fun to play

I just don’t think gamers care about Halo anymore, or Bethesda type games.

So it’s not just with how they launched, but with what they represent to begin with

The bar has been raised massively for AAA games and yet Xbox thinks we’re still living in the 360 era
 

Ar¢tos

Member
I mean, hype kind of does mostly happen pre-release. Reality happens at release. Nobody was hyping Hi-Fi Rush as a game that would sell consoles. The conversation post-release was about being able to play it on PC, thus it not being able to move consoles.

I realize the comment I first replied to was just a snarky console war hot take, but it just seemed odd to me that you would include Hi-Fi Rush in a list of games hyped to sell consoles when it never had a hype cycle.
I'm sorry, but reality is not "a snarky console war hot take", it is just... reality. People did say that those games were reason to buy consoles, if you don't believe it, that is your problem.
There were people saying that Hi-fi Rush was a reason to buy a Xbox (and it was a good game, but a single game usually isn't enough to sell a console).
 

Killjoy-NL

Member
And these upcoming exclusive games will be added to those exclusive games, expanding the catalog. In 2025 we will get likely get Fable and Clockwork Revolution. I expect Doom to return soon as well. Id has to be working on something all these years. We already know Machine Games is working on Quake. This is how you entice people to buy your console.
*Exclusively on PC as well
 

Gambit2483

Member
Yea, I don't see this ending well for Xbox. Unless this year they drop multiple must-have/must-play titles I think they have more years behind them than ahead. Once hardware sales continuously drop everything else will follow in line, like a dominoe effect
 
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It's a collective effort.

It won't do anything. It wont even help them remain flat. Once a decline starts, it keeps going. So 2024 will be down even more from 2023 and 2023 was already a poor year where they sold only 6-7m worldwide. Nothing will stop the decline. Your deluded if you honestly think Avowed and indiana Jones can stop it. At best thet will give a 1 week boost after they release but that's it.
 
It won't do anything. It wont even help them remain flat. Once a decline starts, it keeps going. So 2024 will be down even more from 2023 and 2023 was already a poor year where they sold only 6-7m worldwide. Nothing will stop the decline. Your deluded if you honestly think Avowed and indiana Jones can stop it. At best thet will give a 1 week boost after they release but that's it.

Sounds like a repeat of Starfield IMO.
 

Del_X

Member
I don't know...Phil mentioned when they raised the price of the Series S in Brazil recently it was still the lowest margins in any region.




"Upon being questioned further, the Microsoft Gaming CEO exclaimed that the increase in Xbox Series X|S pricing didn't have a huge impact on the company's profit margins and it is probably "the smallest margin in the world". However, Microsoft's primary aim with Brazilian markets is to be future-proof and in a position that actually prioritizes longevity over financial gains, said the executive."

I always bring this up lately because margins is such a hot topic these days.

Brazilian taxes are something like 63%, meaning the "actual" price is $260 or so (given current exchange rates, assuming the console is 3600 real). There's also retailer costs that, I think, are added. Assuming they aren't, then it's ~$260.
 

Cyberpunkd

Member
They can't possible be so dumb that they are surprised by this result. Their phisical presence in stores - and therefore in the mindset of consumers - is also cratering. They already have a near impossible task in staying relevant vs. PlayStation, yet they are scaling down.

It's basic logic that they need to increase the Xbox ownership to able to increase GamePass subscriptions.. if that's their goal. Truly baffling decisions at Xbox leadership.

Then again, I do agree with the notion that Xbox lost one of the most important generations, Xbox One vs. PS4.
See, this is my take as well, so I really don’t know what is the next step here. No matter what tech bros tell you retail is still incredibly important for mindshare, and now Xbox just have it all up to the competition. If their goal is to increase GP subs they need to sell more consoles, but those are flat YoY.
 

Alan Wake

Member
I could swear I heard the exact same thing for Redfall, HiFi Rush and Starfield...
Maybe not Hi-Fi Rush because it was a shadow drop and therefore no hype. But Starfield certainly was THE GAME for Xbox last year. And it didn't deliver what it had to to make an impact.
 

FingerBang

Member
Does it start with seeing something like Sea of Thieves on PS being shown at the State of Play today?

Lots of rumors swirling
Not that I'm aware of, but again, it's all rumors until there's an official press release. The previous rumors said late February, but now some people claim it's happening this week. We're not talking about some games, but simply going full multiplatform.
 

Alan Wake

Member
This is the answer. There really is no other answer or excuse. I am completely baffled that a fucking SOFTWARE company doesn't realize that their console is lacking quality first party software. Are they really that blind? The fix was not to buy Activision/Blizzard, it was to release one killer first party game per quarter. They had years and years to plan this out and get it right. Instead, they squandered their opportunities at every turn.

It seems they can't manage studios. Projects go in development hell as soon as they're part of Xbox, apparently. The Initiative's Perfect Dark is one example. And who knows what's happening to Rare's Everwild at this point. 343 has mismanaged Halo for years and years now. Compulsion Games took almost five years to announce their first project as part of Xbox Game Studios, and we don't have a launch date yet.

The only Xbox game I am looking forward to right now i Indiana Jones. There's at least a decent chance it'll be good. But it won't do much to salvage Xbox this generation. I've been an Xbox gamer since the very first day, I've been buying games for over 20 years and 'm a Game Pass subscriber but I'm really tired of all the fuck ups at this point. I just can't see how they would be able to make a comeback. This gen was their chance after Xbox One. But it just went downhill. I expect Xbox to be an app in a few years time. I'll probably play more and more on my PS5 from now on.
 
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RespawnX

Member
You're absolutely right... I set a pretty high bar, in all reality. I don't understand what the major malfunction is with Xbox's leadership. They have one job: make money. In order to make money, you have to keep your employees and customers happy. Happier employees create a better product, and a better product not only keeps current customers, but it brings in new customers too. I just don't get it.

Ironically, for a long time the criticism of Xbox was its lack of diversity. Now we have a really wide range of genres, but more and more often games that can simply be thrown straight into trash or only mature years after their release - if at all.

Dragging a brand like Halo straight into irrelevance with a completely broken multiplayer loyalty system (which all fans warned of before release). Fuck up the next release of Forza Motorsport after 7 was buried so quickly. Starfield simply needed another year, they weren't on the wrong track, but they hadn't reached their goal. Minecraft Legends has now been switched to End of Life after less than a year - nobody asked for that game anyway.

It's actually more the seminar games like Age of Empires IV, Grounded, Flight Simulator that make it up. I'm also looking forward to the Age of Mythology relaunch rather than the next Gears. After they did a lot of things better with Gears 5, part 6 will certainly take two steps back again. Hellblade 2 and Flight Simulator 2024 will certainly not be system sellers, but they will be entertaining. Big titles like Fable and Perfect Dark were obviously announced far too early and are still a long way off. Only Indiana Jones gives hope, provided Machine Games has not suffered a similar decline as Arkane. But something tells me it will be postponed and not as extensive as some might expect.
 

digdug2

Member
It seems they can't manage studios. Projects go in development hell as soon as they're part of Xbox, apparently. The Initiative's Perfect Dark is one example. And who knows what's happening to Rare's Everwild at this point. 343 has mismanaged Halo for years and years now. Compulsion Games took almost five years to announce their first project as part of Xbox Game Studios, and we don't have a launch date yet.

The only Xbox game I am looking forward to right now i Indiana Jones. There's at least a decent chance it'll be good. But it won't do much to salvage Xbox this generation. I've been an Xbox gamer since the very first day, I've been buying games for over 20 years and 'm a Game Pass subscriber but I'm really tired of all the fuck ups at this point. I just can't see how they would be able to make a comeback. This gen was their chance after Xbox One. But it just went downhill. I expect Xbox to be an app in a few years time. I'll probably play more and more on my PS5 from now on.
Yes, that does seem to be the biggest issue. Whatever happened with Scalebound? I know that it was in development hell for the better part of a decade, and then it got scrapped. I could've sworn that I read rumors or actual news that they were going to pick it back up, but I don't think that one is ever going to happen.

I'm also really looking forward to Indiana Jones, because he's been one of my favorite characters ever since I was a little kid. I loved the Lucasfilm games, and I'm hoping that Machine Games is able to pull it off. I'm still on the fence though about how I feel regarding it being mostly first person.

You're probably right about Xbox being an app sooner or later. My biggest concern is that if the Xbox platform dies, PlayStation is going to just go unchecked and have zero competition. They'll be free to do whatever the fuck they want. They won't need to innovate, they can continue to jack up prices across the board, and there's nothing that the average consumer can do, except not buy their products.
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
Exclusives like Indiana Jones, Avowed, and Stalker 2 this year will help alleviate that.

I'm sure Starfield has helped. They need a catalog. Anyone thinking one game would turn the tide and dig them out of their hole is an idiot.

Not everyone can afford a gaming PC like me and you. Especially one that matches or exceeds a Series X.
So you believe that sales this year will be better than they were last year... you willing to put some skin in the game?
 

Alan Wake

Member
You're probably right about Xbox being an app sooner or later. My biggest concern is that if the Xbox platform dies, PlayStation is going to just go unchecked and have zero competition. They'll be free to do whatever the fuck they want. They won't need to innovate, they can continue to jack up prices across the board, and there's nothing that the average consumer can do, except not buy their products.
That's a fair concern and I share it. Nobody wants a cocky Sony again. It would be terrible for consumers.
 

digdug2

Member
Ironically, for a long time the criticism of Xbox was its lack of diversity. Now we have a really wide range of genres, but more and more often games that can simply be thrown straight into trash or only mature years after their release - if at all.

Dragging a brand like Halo straight into irrelevance with a completely broken multiplayer loyalty system (which all fans warned of before release). Fuck up the next release of Forza Motorsport after 7 was buried so quickly. Starfield simply needed another year, they weren't on the wrong track, but they hadn't reached their goal. Minecraft Legends has now been switched to End of Life after less than a year - nobody asked for that game anyway.

It's actually more the seminar games like Age of Empires IV, Grounded, Flight Simulator that make it up. I'm also looking forward to the Age of Mythology relaunch rather than the next Gears. After they did a lot of things better with Gears 5, part 6 will certainly take two steps back again. Hellblade 2 and Flight Simulator 2024 will certainly not be system sellers, but they will be entertaining. Big titles like Fable and Perfect Dark were obviously announced far too early and are still a long way off. Only Indiana Jones gives hope, provided Machine Games has not suffered a similar decline as Arkane. But something tells me it will be postponed and not as extensive as some might expect.
Unfortunately, you're absolutely right on the money. MS is doing their best to kill off all of their fan-favorites, or at the very least, hamstringing them and making them something unrecognizable to their fans. They are currently not building up a whole lot of goodwill toward their fans, and it really feels like people are starting to lose hope that good games aren't in the pipeline.

Regarding Starfield- IMO, Bethesda needs to continue work on optimizing their engine, and making it better. Sure, Starfield had the least amount of bugs on release, but have you seen the amount of bugs in Skyrim or the Fallout games? Of course you probably have, so saying there's less bugs doesn't really equate to much.

With regard to Fable, I am onboard with what Alan Wake Alan Wake had to say about MS mismanaging their studios. They took a racing game studio with zero RPG experience and are having them build a beloved title from the ground up. Who knows. Maybe they will pull it off, but only time will tell.

I also think that Indiana Jones will be most likely be delayed. The reason I say that is the gameplay they showed looks promising, but it wasn't quite ready for primetime. There are some janky animations, and it's fairly obvious that there's a good way to go since they haven't announced a solid release window. I sincerely hope Machine Games is able to pull off making the game mostly first person.

Edit: tagged the wrong user, oops!
 
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Mister Wolf

Member
So you believe that sales this year will be better than they were last year... you willing to put some skin in the game?

No, I'm not invested much into this. Once I started making decent money my strategy has always been to own everything.
 
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Xbox hardware is dead. Its fine that it exists, but Microsoft won’t be able to get out of this without going third party

If Starfield and Halo won’t move the needle, nothing will

Their entire first party games are being sent to die
942und47bs8b1.gif
 

Gambit2483

Member
And the 2nd cycle is only half way done. MS still has 2-3 more years of this.
I think Xbox has a chance to at the least stop the downward spiral and begin to turn things around, but ONLY IF they do it this year. They absolutely need to drop AAA Exclusive bangers (plural) in 2024 or this gen is a wash, as far as them being able to build positive momentum and begin to turn things around for the next 2-3 years (and into the next generation).

In other words, I absolutely believe 2024 will be a make it or break it year for the Xbox brand.
 
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Alan Wake

Member
I also think that Indiana Jones will be most likely be delayed. The reason I say that is the gameplay they showed looks promising, but it wasn't quite ready for primetime. There are some janky animations, and it's fairly obvious that there's a good way to go since they haven't announced a solid release window. I sincerely hope Machine Games is able to pull off making the game mostly first person.
The gameplay we saw was likely pretty old. Spencer talked about this a while back. That they show something new doesn't mean it's fresh gameplay so to speak. They prepare these shows months and months in advance.
 
I did my part, got series x (first ever xbox) and bought mostly OG and 360 games on sale... then canceled game pass. I now have a tone of stuff to play, and Grim dawn on the couch.
Loving it so far, but yeah new games are few and far between. Like that for ps5 too, only switch has consistent releases.
 

digdug2

Member
The gameplay we saw was likely pretty old. Spencer talked about this a while back. That they show something new doesn't mean it's fresh gameplay so to speak. They prepare these shows months and months in advance.
That's good to know. The gameplay that they showed just needed some polish, and I'm sure the game is still in pre-pre-alpha... getting the mechanics correct, gameplay balanced out, all that. I absolutely loved Wolfenstein: The New Order and thought that it kind of felt like a Tarantino-esque take on Indiana Jones, so I have pretty high hopes.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I think Xbox has a chance to at the least stop the downward spiral and begin to turn things around, but ONLY IF they do it this year. They absolutely need to drop AAA Exclusive bangers (plural) in 2024 or this gen is a wash, as far as them being able to build positive momentum and begin to turn things around for the next 2-3 years (and into the next generation).

In other words, I absolutely believe 2024 will be a make it or break it year for the Xbox brand.

I thought this about 2023 and Starfield. Especially since last year would be the year Sony had a full year worth of consoles to sell. I think 2024 is too late. Especially with them going FULL ON ALL Digital this year. This will only hurt Xbox as a brand.
 
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