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Topher
Gold Member
No it does not. Emulation is not legal only for the basis of game preservation.
Yes, legally
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Ass of Can Whooping
Member
I caught that Topher you naughty rascal
MisterXDTV
Member
I mean Nintendo is selling portable consoles that are weaker than MOST desktop and laptop PCs
Of course they are afraid for Switch 2
It's gonna be emulated in no time
It could be emulated even by Android devices
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Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
The sad part of this is that i paid for the metroid dread collectors edition and the illegal version was basically perfectly playable in 4k making this the best version. (Fucking 2 weeks before launch)
Imagine playing tlou2 on the ps4. And some emulator running it in 60 fps in true 4k before launch..
Pathetic
If you want to have a field day.. check 3ds games running in 4k on youtube.. it’s embarrassing
How much money nintendo is leaving on the floor
Imagine playing tlou2 on the ps4. And some emulator running it in 60 fps in true 4k before launch..
Pathetic
If you want to have a field day.. check 3ds games running in 4k on youtube.. it’s embarrassing
How much money nintendo is leaving on the floor
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Topher
Gold Member
damn autocorrect. lol
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Fucking Nintendo lawyers at it again ..
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Omnipunctual Godot
Gold Member
This is like suing a VCR manufacturer because some people used the VCR to copy rentals. It shouldn't go anywhere. Seems like lawfare if anything.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
This ain't stopping anything folks.
Banjo64
cumsessed
that’s why I love you bro
Nydius
Member
I think Nintendo are a bunch of cunts buuuut what you wrote is legally untrue.
You ARE allowed to back up software you own but being able to play it on an emulator means decrypting proprietary software controls, which is very much a violation of current copyright law under the DMCA, at least here in the US.
Consumers aren’t allowed to circumvent copyright encryption protections even if they own the software.
Edit, for clarity:
It's legally permissible for an end user to make a backup copy of software they own.
But to emulate a system like the Switch inherently means the emulator must circumvent copyright protections to be operable, which is illegal no matter if you own a copy of software for the emulated system or not. (17 USC §1201). That's what Nintendo is suing under and will probably be successful. Because the legal system are also cunts.
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Ass of Can Whooping
Member
MisterXDTV
Member
The difference is VHS tapes ARE MEANT to be played on a VCR....
Switch Games are meant to be played on the Switch...
Yuzu is not licensed by Nintendo in any way, it's actually the opposite
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
Maybe Nintendo knows something you don't? They probably waited until they were absolutely sure they had a strong case against the devs of the emulator. Some technical detail in some law the devs overlooked.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Ehhh. I’m only against emulating when I’m not doing it. DONT LOOK AT MY QUEST 3!
JordiENP
Member
thing is, a hacked switch can download pirated games via the homebrew store tinfoil, you don't need yuzu to play pirated games. While I understand Nintendo is mad, there's more than a few ways to play pirated games and trying to stop yuzu is not going to stop it. You can even play pirated games on unhacked switch with the "mig switch"
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
GHG
Member
ResurrectedContrarian
Suffers with mild autism
Their biggest problem is to have apparently taken significant payments (for early release versions, special builds, etc over time).
Even a cursory glance at any random reddit etc mentioning Yuzu will reveal tons of users who:
- are purchasing Yuzu as a product (to gain access to features) and not simply as a donation;
- clearly want access to the whole Switch pirated library on their phones etc
Yuzu creators obviously know that a very large portion of users paying for this software are doing so specifically to pirate new software and to avoid buying the games. And obviously they are using this to turn a little profit for themselves.
If that's the case at all, yeah they fully deserve to get burned. Piracy is one thing, profiting off it knowingly to any extent is a massive difference and puts you deservingly in the crosshairs.
BouncyFrag
Member
Watching the dragon tears in TOTK out of order also spoils the game. Just sayin…
#flashbackstorytellingislamepleasestopnintendo
#flashbackstorytellingislamepleasestopnintendo
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jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Yuzu charging for updates / early access on their Patreon always seemed like a bad idea to me, guess it's coming back to bite them in the ass now.
MisterXDTV
Member
They are not going to stop Yuzu as there's no way to stop it as the emulator can be uploaded on any website in the world in no time, it's too late
But let's be honest here, it's very grey area as a software
Solidus_T
Member
If they did, it would have been in their documents here. They instead cite the amount of times ToTK was pirated. That is not a strong case against the creators of Citra/Yuzu.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
I played Tears of the Kingdom on Yuzu. The entire game. Did almost everything in the game. Yes, I bought the game and yes I own a Switch.
I had a great time playing it that way and makes me much angrier at Nintendo for releasing such an underpowered piece of shit known as the Switch.
Seriously, Nintendo if you dont want this sort of thing to happen, license out a company like Asus to make a 3rd party console that will play these games at higher rez and framerates.
I had a great time playing it that way and makes me much angrier at Nintendo for releasing such an underpowered piece of shit known as the Switch.
Seriously, Nintendo if you dont want this sort of thing to happen, license out a company like Asus to make a 3rd party console that will play these games at higher rez and framerates.
Badlucktroll
Member
nintendo be like
Topher
Gold Member
Valid points. However, I don't think Yuzu creators should be held responsible for actions of others. So that may be what has put them in the crosshairs, but I still hope this goes to court and gets some actual rulings behind it. That's the only way these gray areas get hashed out.
Topher
Gold Member
So how is emulation legal at all?
bender
What time is it?
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Yep, they could even license out a 3rd party to make a more powerful console that can run their games. Many people, won't play Nintendo games on Switch since its so unpowered.
I have a Switch and Tears of the Kingdom, but don't play anything on it. I use Yuzu.
Topher
Gold Member
bender
What time is it?
tkscz
Member
And this is why it's going nowhere. At most the creators of Yuzu get a big payout by it being settled via Nintendo's side, otherwise it's just a waste of time in court. Emulators themselves don't dump the ROMs to themselves so it won't hold. Their Patreon page only takes money for code and software they made, doesn't even have the BIOs to run, you have to get your own BIOs, which means you already own a Switch. They don't link to sites with illegal BIOs dumps so can't get it to work that way either. They also don't tell people where they can download ROM files from, so they can't say that either. Those 1 million people who pirated TotK did so knowing sites they could get the ROM from before hand, but Nintendo knows they wouldn't be able to find the leaker of the ROM since they probably aren't dumb enough to take a payment for it, unless end up like Bowser.
Speaking of which, their argument for 1 million copies of TotK being pirated is quickly offset by it selling 12 million copies by now, making that 1 million seem like a drop in the bucket.
That said, let's not lie to ourselves and claim emulation isn't for pirating. It won't win them anything and they still don't have a case against Yuzu, but how often are people on the up and up with emulating new consoles where they will buy the games to rip them and play them on their emulator? I know there are people who will, but I can't see most doing that over finding an illegal ROM. We've all seen the comments on Youtube and Reddit and the like.
Dolphin, Citra, Project64, Mupen, SNES9x, ZSNES, and the countless NES, DS, GBA and GB emulators are all old. Nintendo makes nothing on the games for those consoles and because NSO payments are for the service and not each individual game, they can't make claim there either. Yuzu is for their current system and while they'd have an argument in Japan because of how strict Japanese copyright laws are, in the US, they got nothing. It's also why you've seen them stop trying to take down so many ROM hacks and fan games as of late.
Buggy Loop
Member
What a bullshit case, again
Nintendo can fuck off. Most draconian actions in the business about any fan work too. We get it, you went super saiyan lawyer after Universal sued you for Donkey Kong - King Kong, calm the fuck down.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
This is why I don't get into emulation arguments lol. The legislation is outdated. It boils down to moral arguments until these things are hashed out in court
ReBurn
Gold Member
I'm not sure it's about winning as much as it is trying to bankrupt the team making it so they'll stop distributing the emulator. If the Yuzu team can't afford lawyers to fight it they'll probably lose by default.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
Yeah the feelings mutual. They should have struck when the emulator was in a less developed state like 2020 or 2019.
The damn thing is on phones now and it's been open source for years. The genie is out of the bottle
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
Switch 1 emulation still isn't perfect and Nintendo has drastically improved security.
Switch 2 with all the advanced Nvidia tech and better security would actually slow down Nintendo emulation, at least for a bit
AREYOUOKAY?
Member
If anything they should sue Kotaku instead.
Kotaku Possibly Sabotaging "Metroid Dread" Sales with Emulator Links
Nintendo's "Metroid" series has a complicated history between its fans and the company that created it. Despite debuting in 1986, the series has only had
nerdbot.com
I’ll take any excuse for someone to wipe them off the internet.
BacklashWave534
Member
Nintendo
Seriously, fuck Nintendo! They know YUZU is legal. They just want to destroy their ability to operate by burying them in litigation.
Seriously, fuck Nintendo! They know YUZU is legal. They just want to destroy their ability to operate by burying them in litigation.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
Stuff like this makes me wish that the Switch 2 turns out like the WiiU.
I_D
Member
Every time one of these threads come up, it seems like a lot of people don't quite understand what emulation is. Not necessarily in this thread, but just in general.
Emulation is simply copying the performance of a something within the workings of a different something. In this context, it means copying the workings of a machine within the capabilities of a different (usually more powerful) machine.
Currently, there is nothing illegal about using a powerful machine to perform the functions of a less-powerful machine.
It actually makes a ton of sense to use emulation, provided power-consumption isn't a concern. Presuming the coding/build is correct, the more-powerful machine will pretty much always generate better results, which means the final product will be better overall, regardless of what that product is.
Emulation is used across all kinds of industries for all kinds of machines. To make it illegal would open up a gazillion questions about who gets the first-dibs to certain things.
Is your phone allowed to emulate a calculator, for example? Is a game company allowed to emulate the mechanics from a previous game? Are game-ports even legal, since some of them require altered and emulated code? What about remakes of games?
And then, if the bill isn't worded properly, that brings up semantic arguments about the real definition of "Emulate."
What about 'inspired' features, such as something like window-resizing? Microsoft did it first, so do Apple and Linux now have to remove the feature? Sony (or somebody, the actual history isn't really the point) allowed us to listen to .mp3 files, which means that every other company has to create their own codec player, right?
Or wait, codecs aren't even legal, right; unless that company also creates an entire operating-system from scratch?
The point is that emulation is definitely not illegal, and it definitely should not become illegal.
Emulation can, of course, allow for piracy. So can the internet. So can any other software-using system. That's not a good enough reason to ban a certain product simply due to emulation.
I fail to see how this particular company is encouraging piracy, unless they're actually hosting illegitimate files and distributing them.
My fear, though, is that the Nintendo lawyers of doom will be able to run this company out of business, regardless of actual guilt.
If there is any legality involved, it most certainly should refer to the copyright part of the software. That's pretty much the only place where emulation could become illegal (which would be, of course, the creator's fault, rather than emulation's).
If Yuzu created code that circumvented protections, they're guilty as hell.
Based on how all of the other emulators for other systems work, though, I'm willing to believe they're innocent unless something erroneous shows up in the investigations.
Emulation is simply copying the performance of a something within the workings of a different something. In this context, it means copying the workings of a machine within the capabilities of a different (usually more powerful) machine.
Currently, there is nothing illegal about using a powerful machine to perform the functions of a less-powerful machine.
It actually makes a ton of sense to use emulation, provided power-consumption isn't a concern. Presuming the coding/build is correct, the more-powerful machine will pretty much always generate better results, which means the final product will be better overall, regardless of what that product is.
Emulation is used across all kinds of industries for all kinds of machines. To make it illegal would open up a gazillion questions about who gets the first-dibs to certain things.
Is your phone allowed to emulate a calculator, for example? Is a game company allowed to emulate the mechanics from a previous game? Are game-ports even legal, since some of them require altered and emulated code? What about remakes of games?
And then, if the bill isn't worded properly, that brings up semantic arguments about the real definition of "Emulate."
What about 'inspired' features, such as something like window-resizing? Microsoft did it first, so do Apple and Linux now have to remove the feature? Sony (or somebody, the actual history isn't really the point) allowed us to listen to .mp3 files, which means that every other company has to create their own codec player, right?
Or wait, codecs aren't even legal, right; unless that company also creates an entire operating-system from scratch?
The point is that emulation is definitely not illegal, and it definitely should not become illegal.
Emulation can, of course, allow for piracy. So can the internet. So can any other software-using system. That's not a good enough reason to ban a certain product simply due to emulation.
I fail to see how this particular company is encouraging piracy, unless they're actually hosting illegitimate files and distributing them.
My fear, though, is that the Nintendo lawyers of doom will be able to run this company out of business, regardless of actual guilt.
I know you weren't talking to me, but this is actually a very important point.
If there is any legality involved, it most certainly should refer to the copyright part of the software. That's pretty much the only place where emulation could become illegal (which would be, of course, the creator's fault, rather than emulation's).
If Yuzu created code that circumvented protections, they're guilty as hell.
Based on how all of the other emulators for other systems work, though, I'm willing to believe they're innocent unless something erroneous shows up in the investigations.
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Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Weird timing, maybe Switch 2 is so iterative they hope to kill Yuzu (and then Ryujinx and whatever else pops up) before it's released and emulates it? Weird they never went after Dolphin/Citra devs as folks say the former includes Nintendo property in the form of decryption keys or something (stopping Steam release). Fee wise Yuzu (and any Nintendo emulator dev if popular as Nintendo emulation is the most desired by people who refuse to buy systems and games) can probably garner enough funds to lawyer up by just asking the community, if that's a viable route, drumming up support for their cause. Whether they actually have a leg to stand on legally is another matter I guess, we'll see what happens but it will probably go to court given this (unless Yuzu is adviced they will probably lose regardless of money so they decide to settle out of court).
Yeah, hate Nintendo and its 98.8% employee retention rate where its actual developers-slash-CEOs take responsibility with pay cuts to appease bloodthirsty shareholders over mass layoffs and love the others, puh-lease. If the other systems were emulated like this they'd have sued them as well and you know it. Sony did sue those who cracked the PS3 master key (and wanted to expand to everyone downloading files from them iIrc) as the most recent example.
arstechnica.com
Beyond that they had other bright ideas like some rootkit DRM on their music albums or whatever. So much more pro-consumer. They've also sued Internet Archive, lol.
www.theregister.com
This is just capitalism, not a case of any one company being inherently more evil than any other, when the circumstances arise they're all exactly the same folks, don't idolize any of them.
Edit: Sony's sued PS4 hackers as well.
kotaku.com
Also, Yuzu is making over 27k eur/month as of now, without any extra "community plz come together to help us fight big bad corp threatening us" deal, they can afford laywers, don't worry folks, they aren't starving artists/laid off game devs/3rd world software devs
And no, playing the games on "stronger hardware" isn't the deciding factor for why Nintendo emulation is so popular, just having them easily available without buying additional hardware whatsoever is simply sweet. See all the folks who care about how it emulates on Deck, which doesn't really run the demanding games at substantially better settings or anything, but they have it so don't want a Switch. Doubt everyone who emulates on desktop is a 4k60 bro either, hence CEMU being so popular for BOTW cos it runs on weaker hardware than Switch emus. It's really just about having the easy access to the games. And in this case, contrary to awesome platforms like Steam, indeed piracy is easier than buying yet another system + games. Better hardware is a minority case/excuse really, if the games are great then they're great and worth playing. Otherwise, there are more great games than you can play in your lifetime on any single platform, you don't HAVE to go for the specific games that are on the one system you don't care to buy for any reason and boast how you want them to go third party like MS & Sony when Nintendo is plenty successful not following their footsteps (unless of course your reason for not wanting to buy Switch and its games is exactly because of how easily you can access them on a platform you already own, hence feeding into Nintendo's point of view for wanting to do this).
Yeah, hate Nintendo and its 98.8% employee retention rate where its actual developers-slash-CEOs take responsibility with pay cuts to appease bloodthirsty shareholders over mass layoffs and love the others, puh-lease. If the other systems were emulated like this they'd have sued them as well and you know it. Sony did sue those who cracked the PS3 master key (and wanted to expand to everyone downloading files from them iIrc) as the most recent example.
Sony goes to court to get PS3 key crackers to shut up already
Sony is hoping to stuff the genie back into the bottle as it seeks a …
arstechnica.com
Remember the Sony rootkit scandal? It was almost much worse
That time Rootkitting for Dummies might as well have been in Microsoft's Plus! Pack
www.theregister.com
Edit: Sony's sued PS4 hackers as well.
Sony Sues Hacker For Selling Jailbroken PS4s
Sony Interactive Entertainment is suing a California hacker it accuses of trying to sell jailbroken PS4s loaded up with pirated games.
kotaku.com
Also, Yuzu is making over 27k eur/month as of now, without any extra "community plz come together to help us fight big bad corp threatening us" deal, they can afford laywers, don't worry folks, they aren't starving artists/laid off game devs/3rd world software devs
And no, playing the games on "stronger hardware" isn't the deciding factor for why Nintendo emulation is so popular, just having them easily available without buying additional hardware whatsoever is simply sweet. See all the folks who care about how it emulates on Deck, which doesn't really run the demanding games at substantially better settings or anything, but they have it so don't want a Switch. Doubt everyone who emulates on desktop is a 4k60 bro either, hence CEMU being so popular for BOTW cos it runs on weaker hardware than Switch emus. It's really just about having the easy access to the games. And in this case, contrary to awesome platforms like Steam, indeed piracy is easier than buying yet another system + games. Better hardware is a minority case/excuse really, if the games are great then they're great and worth playing. Otherwise, there are more great games than you can play in your lifetime on any single platform, you don't HAVE to go for the specific games that are on the one system you don't care to buy for any reason and boast how you want them to go third party like MS & Sony when Nintendo is plenty successful not following their footsteps (unless of course your reason for not wanting to buy Switch and its games is exactly because of how easily you can access them on a platform you already own, hence feeding into Nintendo's point of view for wanting to do this).
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kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
I think Nintendo are a bunch of cunts buuuut what you wrote is legally untrue.
You ARE allowed to back up software you own but being able to play it on an emulator means decrypting proprietary software controls, which is very much a violation of current copyright law under the DMCA, at least here in the US.
Consumers aren’t allowed to circumvent copyright encryption protections even if they own the software.
Edit, for clarity:
It's legally permissible for an end user to make a backup copy of software they own.
But to emulate a system like the Switch inherently means the emulator must circumvent copyright protections to be operable, which is illegal no matter if you own a copy of software for the emulated system or not. (17 USC §1201). That's what Nintendo is suing under and will probably be successful. Because the legal system are also cunts.
That's not true. An emulator also emulates the built-in copyright protections so the software running within the emulator has no idea it's not running on the original hardware. Nintendo only has a case if the Yuzu devs intentionally wrote code that made it possible to play games on Yuzu without you needing to download roms and key files.