hemo memo
Gold Member
Yeah but as the owner of Yuzu, how is that his problem?
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calistan
Member
Here's an interesting article about it: How strong is Nintendo's legal case against Yuzu
They consulted a media lawyer who doesn't think it will go to trial:
The Yuzu devs will have seen what happened to that Gary Bowser guy just for being a glorified admin on a mod chip site.
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spons
Gold Member
Well yes indeed, if it's an iterative product like GameCube to Wii, Yuzu could easily be repurposed as a Switch 2 emulator. Nintendo wants this gone, now.
I disagree with this sentiment. Proper engineers like those creating Yuzu and Ryujinx are rare. If the team calls it quits, it's effectively dead.
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Fabieter
Member
The outcome depends on the case Nintendo is pursuing. The main intention behind emulation is often to play exclusive games on PC. If Nintendo releases games on PC, we might not see a follow-up to Yuzu. So, yes, the developers behind these emulators could be considered shady.
How do use it if we are at it? Do you own a switch?
hemo memo
Gold Member
Yes I personally have a Switch and have over 200 games bought digitally for Switch.
Fabieter
Member
So you have an old switch and you rip your own games? Alrighty than.
hemo memo
Gold Member
No I don’t. I have an OLED Switch and I didn’t even use an emulator on my PC. Thought of it. Posted a thread about it but no I actually don’t use emulators. I’m just pointing out how ridiculous this move from Nintendo.
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Fabieter
Member
Don't think it is considering they are about to launch a new system which might get pirated on day one. Nintendo might be the next in line with mass layoffs but the provider of yuzu can't be bothered as long as he get some internet fame.
He knows very well that his tool is used for piracy and hides behind 'I don't promote it". It's shady!
That's not team Yuzu fault or should be their concern, at all, in no shape or form.
If the emu doesn't use proprietary code, Nintendo has absolutely nothing.
People descrypting the games and dumping the keys, that's another story, but the actual Yuzu sw is reverse engineered.
lh032
I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
yuzu knows what they are doing, they are bypassing this loophole.
Guilty_AI
Member
lmao you aren't trying to blame these mass layoffs on "piracy" are you now?
spons
Gold Member
Neither should you live in Belgium apparently. They ninja'd the fuck out of that homebrew dude.
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Griffon
Member
I'm not familiar with this, but it looks like they couldn't do anything to him beyond some spying around (which is probably highly illegal in Belgium). This is not life-ruining shit like getting sued in the US.
Edit: I've seen your edit. Given there's been no news since, either they got him to settle, or they just backed down because they got exposed for doing shady shit. I still don't think they could have a case in Belgium.
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proandrad
Member
How else will Nintendo sell you the same game for their next system if you aren’t force to play a worst version of it first?
Party McHardy
Member
Lot of people didn’t buy tears of the kingdom and still played it. Fuck em, sue the facilitator.
Guilty_AI
Member
Didn't the game sold like +20M copies
Topher
Gold Member
As of December 31, 2023, yes
IR Information : Sales Data - Top Selling Title Sales Units
www.nintendo.co.jp
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Mr.Phoenix
Member
Come on bro, how are they not?
At the very least, did they take permission from Nintendo before they decided to make an emulator for their hardware?
Topher
Gold Member
Because factually they are not. The act of piracy occurs when someone downloads the software or otherwise obtains it illegally. The emulation software has no part of that.
No one is required to get permission to create an emulator.
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Do you know what more facilitates it? Web sites to download roms/isos, internet, computers, electric energy. Nintendo, sue the creators of them all.No, but it FACILITATES it.
And more, Nintendo making games and the Switch also facilitates it. No one can pirate if the games don't exist. They should sue themselves and stop making games and hardware.
systemr123
Member
But, they could have sold +21M copies according to Nintendo. Greed knows no boundaries. Research though always show that people who pirate games mostly either end up buying a copy, or were never going to buy one in the first place, so in the end nothing is really lost. It's a victimless crime that gets manipulated by all different viewpoints on it.
Thaedolus
Member
Nintendo facilitated it first by releasing a product which can run pirated games, well before Yuzu could.No, but it FACILITATES it.
Nintendo has to prove:
1: those million downloads were all unique
2: those million downloads represent lost sales
3: those million downloads wouldn’t have happened if it weren’t for Yuzu (rather than their own cracked hardware, which can either be soft modded or hardware modded to play pirated games)
They can’t prove any of that. This is a silly lawsuit likely meant to bury the developer in legal fees.
ReyBrujo
Member
Yeah, they should die :V
That's what happens when you are a public company, 20m and 21m are not the same for investors.
That's what a lawsuit is about after all.
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Thaedolus
Member
Well, there are lawsuits which have merit. If Nintendo could show the Yuzu developers were using stolen code, or providing copyrighted games, or doing something else that wasn’t above board causing them damages, then sure air it out in court and collect on that. But citing the number of illegal downloads of their software when there are multiple ways to play it outside of Yuzu ain’t it. If you want to play pirated Nintendo software, I’d argue playing it on their own hardware is trivially easy and comparatively easier than emulating it. And that doesn’t even start with the conversation that some percentage of those downloaders just wanted to play the game early and bought it anyway, causing Nintendo no damages with respect to those.
Ideally this sort of frivolity would backfire and cost the plaintiff big time for filing it
It seems a bit strange for me to see people support piracy and at the same time sad about layoffs. And yeah, it's piracy let's not kid ourselves.
1m TotK sales lost are $70m, which would directly affect hiring and salaries. Sure, Nintendo has a warchest, but other companies also suffer from piracy we don't know by how much.
1m TotK sales lost are $70m, which would directly affect hiring and salaries. Sure, Nintendo has a warchest, but other companies also suffer from piracy we don't know by how much.
Guilty_AI
Member
No, the layoffs aren't due to piracy, where the hell are people even taking that from? Epic had massive layoffs and their main cash cow can't be pirated. Or rather, trying to blame them on piracy is instead nefarious since you're essentially taking away responsibility from horrible company mismanagement, which is the real cause.
Also, the 1M pirated downloads == 1M lost sale is an age old unproven myth. It just doesn't fly.
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I didn't say it was due to piracy, but it could be another cause.
If someone pirated and played a game, why would they buy it? Can't say it's 1:1 but there are def lost sales.
Guilty_AI
Member
Whatever lost sales exists, its nowhere near enough to make a dent on their bottom line. And many people buy a game they pirated simple because they liked it, there are even studies and real cases showing its possible for piracy to instead increase sales. On a side note, i'd be willing to bet emulators and piracy are the sole thing that helped nintendo stay relevant througout their Gamecube years.
Thaedolus
Member
To support the developer. TotK leaked like a month before its official release. Six years after BotW, a lot of people just wanted to play a game they already bought and paid for a month earlier than the official release date. And Yuzu had nothing to do with that for many of those people
No
They are creating software, completely legal (unless stolen code and shit). Anything beyond that is a bunch of buts and what ifs.
MadchesterManc
Member
The emulator requires the encrypted access keys from an actual Switch to run the software given its not a fully reverse engineered emulator like you get with older systems (Any emulator that requires a bios is in a similar situation) You could circumvent this by downloading someone else's access key, but not using your own keys from your own Switch to emulate the games is where the illegality would come in when using Yuzu.
If you have a modded Switch and dump the keys for Yuzu & your carts to play then there's nothing illegal about emulating the Switch on PC
SlimeGooGoo
Party Gooper
T-T-TRIPLE post
AJUMP23
Member
Good encapsulation. Can I borrow your keys?
I don’t see how Nintendo wins this since Yuzu doesn’t provide keys or the rom files to play on the emulator. You can do the same thing on a hacked switch so why aren’t they going after exploits?. The problem is the people manufacturing the game and leaking it online along with dumping switch keys for them to be played weeks before release.
Kings Field
Member
Nintendo showing up like Kathy Bates in Misery.
graywolf323
Member
what reality are you living in? because it most certainly isn’t this one
Toots
Gold Member
still that's a lot of farts...
More seriously though, i bet Nintendo does fiscal optimisation (like every big corp ever), so when we use emulation, within the confine of the law, to do gaming optimisation they should shut up and applaud our entrepreneurial spirit.
Thaedolus
Member
Even if one accepts the premise of a million lost sales based on that TotK download number, the sales to pirate ratio is 20:1what reality are you living in? because it most certainly isn’t this one
I’m not a mathematician but I’m not sure that equates to “most.” And honestly, if Nintendo wants to crush emulation, all they need to do is release a better product. I’m itching to replay TotK at a higher resolution and framerate than my stock Switch can provide, so I have two options: wait for Switch 2, assuming it’s backwards compatible and will do upscaling/higher framerate, or emulate it on my PC. I’d rather a simple solution where I can just pop my cartridge into Switch 2, even if it won’t hit the same performance as my PC. But if Nintendo decides to make my Switch 1 software useless on Switch 2, I’ll just emulate it next time I play and won’t feel bad at all.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
This is a classic case of letting the shit roll down the hill and become someone else's problem.
This is the way I see it. Unless someone actually goes to the platform holder and gets permission to make an emulator of their current, on-market platform; then that person is doing something illegal. And that is a fight they will always lose if taken to court. These people never go and ask permission, because they all know the platform holder will refuse.
Now most platform holders ignore this, because these emulators are usually always at best, a gen behind. But in the case of the switch, the emulators or current, and even far better than anything the switch's weak hardware can manage. And lets not kid ourselves, if 10 people come out and say, I buy a switch game, so I am in the right to download it and play it on my Switch emulator on PC, 9 of those people are lying and just went and pirated that fuck. That is something they likely would not have done if the emulator didn't exist.
Let us not take industry tropes as if they are standard or conveniently operate in the grey zone because it suits us. That no one gets permission to make an open-source emulator of any platform does NOT mean they are not required to do so. That a lot of people have done it with lots of emulators we know and love does not mean a single one of them are in the right to do so.
Its not right, simple as that. As far as I am concerned, these devs that make these emulators, hacks, rips...whatever; operate firmly within the mythical 11th commandment limits.
Fabieter
Member
Just saw a tweet which said 1m people downloaded the game before it released. #NotUseDfoRpiraCy
CuteFaceJay
Member
CRYS INTO STEAM DECK!
They might as well go a head and sue themself because the OG Day 1 switch was made so easy to homebrew on.
They might as well go a head and sue themself because the OG Day 1 switch was made so easy to homebrew on.
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Topher
Gold Member
Ok.....show me the law that says emulator creators are required to get permission. Everything I've read on the subject says emulators are perfectly regardless of whether Nintendo or whoever else approves or not.
graywolf323
Member
and not all of those were played on Yuzu
there’s also hacked Switches & Ryujinx as wellwhat’s with all the corporate bootlickers? emulators are legal, why are you all so desperate for them to be illegal? you want to be stuck with the only way to play older games on modern hardware is stuff like the drip fed Nintendo Switch Online apps because Nintendo is greedy & didn’t want to carry over Virtual Console?
the emulator community is far better and has also given us stuff like RetroAchievements which we’ll likely never see something like that from Nintendo especially
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