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[tci]

Oh my... too much madness going on in this thread.
Dennis is known for his graphics worshipping, it was a joke.

I'm well aware of that.

Crysis is with no doubt the best to happen FPS-games since the original Half Life. Too bad number 2 ruined it all though.

 

[NBtoaster]

I can't believe I have to explain this:

In thirteen years we are still basically at "bla bla Mr. Freeman".

Its hard to care for a story that slow with no progress.

There's been plenty of advancement in the Half Life 2 story.

 

[charlequin]

That is, until you see his beach house.

Gabe Newell designs his beach house the same way he designs his games.

Lol @ his wife saying "you can just bring a Nintendo."

 

[petethepanda]

I would have finally grown frustrated with Half-Life's story (or lack thereof) if they hadn't started to finally drop some actual hints in Episode 2. After that mid-game segment with G-Man I was fucking drooling lol.

I'd be more torn up about the lack of HL3/ep3 news if Valve hadn't also been keeping me thoroughly entertained with Portal 2 and constant TF2 updates and such.

 

[hbkajshdvfbkjhvgkahsgdfka]

Doesn't farcry take the sandbox fps spot before crysis?

S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl came out before Crysis as well and is an exponentially superior game.

 

[Zeliard]

Gabe is a classy man.

 

[I H8 Memes]

Yeah, and its a good game. Much better than HL2 and Episode 1.

But still disappointing compared to how ground-breaking the first Half-Life game was.

The current, undisputed FPS king is Crysis.

The three most important FPS games in terms of gameplay evolution, in chronological order:

1. Doom

2. Half-Life

3. Crysis

Thats nice and all, but which games that came out between HL1 (1999) and Crysis (2007) are better than HL2? Must be tons of game since HL2 is overrated.

 

[Zeliard]

Thats nice and all, but which games that came out between HL1 (1999) and Crysis (2007) are better than HL2? Must be tons of game since HL2 is overrated.

Are you counting genre hybrids? System Shock 2 was 1999, Deus Ex was 2000, then you had the NOLF games in the early 00s, and Vampire TM - Bloodlines in 2004.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Doesn't farcry take the sandbox fps spot before crysis?

Environmentally yes, but the problem with Far Cry is that it lacked the tools necessary to be an actual sandbox FPS. Crysis gives you a massive number of tools to use right off the bat, so it's not just the fact that you can approach an encounter from a number of directions.

Gabe Newell designs his beach house the same way he designs his games.

"What sealed it for us was the lyricism of the environment, the texture of the place and the stunning beauty."

That line got me, I thought he was talking about Half-Life.

 

[Draft]

Thats nice and all, but which games that came out between HL1 (1999) and Crysis (2007) are better than HL2? Must be tons of game since HL2 is overrated.

Halo, BF1942 and Modern Warfare immediately come to mind. They've all certainly been as influential, if not more so, than Half Life 2.

 

[Nirolak]

This is what our TF2 key money is paying for.

I'm not sure if this is widely known, but Gabe Newell was actually a millionaire before he founded Valve.

Yeah, and its a good game. Much better than HL2 and Episode 1.

But still disappointing compared to how ground-breaking the first Half-Life game was.

The current, undisputed FPS king is Crysis.

The three most important FPS games in terms of gameplay evolution, in chronological order:

1. Doom

2. Half-Life

3. Crysis

Let's hope that Half-Life 3 doesn't follow the trajectory of the other two series.

 

[Rapstah]

I'm not sure if this is widely known, but Gabe Newell was actually a millionaire before he founded Valve.



Let's hope that Half-Life 3 doesn't follow the trajectory of the other two series.

It has technically followed the current trajectory of the Doom series.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Let's hope that Half-Life 3 doesn't follow the trajectory of the other two series.

 

[I H8 Memes]

Halo, BF1942 and Modern Warfare immediately come to mind. They've all certainly been as influential, if not more so, than Half Life 2.

HL2 is better than Halo and any of the COD games. I dont know why you would compare a single player game to a multi-player game with 1942.

When HL2 came out it was so far ahead of every other fps in scripting, animation, facial animation, character building, and way way way ahead in physics. It's only rival in graphics at the time was the half decent/half horrible Far Cry.


And no, Crysis is not a better game than HL2. Better graphics and gunplay sure, but games are more than that. What little story was available in Crysis was poorly told. It was a nice attempt at in-game story telling through visual experience, but Crytek just couldn't pull it off the way Valve can.

 

[The Librarian]

HL2 is better than Halo and any of the COD games. I dont know why you would compare a single player game to a multi-player game with 1942.

When HL2 came out it was so far ahead of every other fps in scripting, animation, facial animation, character building, and way way way ahead in physics. It's only rival in graphics at the time was the half decent/half horrible Far Cry.

...gameplay?

 

[Zeliard]

Let's hope that Half-Life 3 doesn't follow the trajectory of the other two series.

It's probably doubtful. It'll be playtested to hell and back, and then back to hell and back again, on top of a massive development time and unlimited funds.

May mean it doesn't reach the highest highs it could if it's too heavily focus-tested, but it would be very surprising if didn't end up good regardless.

Also, I maintain that Doom 3 is underrated. :>

HL2 is better than Halo and any of the COD games. I dont know why you would compare a single player game to a multi-player game with 1942.

When HL2 came out it was so far ahead of every other fps in scripting, animation, facial animation, character building, and way way way ahead in physics. It's only rival in graphics at the time was the half decent/half horrible Far Cry.


And no, Crysis is not a better game than HL2. Better graphics and gunplay sure, but games are more than that. What little story was available in Crysis was poorly told. It was a nice attempt at in-game story telling through visual experience, but Crytek just couldn't pull it off the way Valve can.

Again, if you're counting the hybrids there were much better shooter types than HL2 in the years preceding it. And also the same year, like the aforementioned Bloodlines which was on the Source engine and also featured nice facial animation. And I say this as someone who liked HL2 plenty.

 

[Draft]

HL2 is better than Halo and any of the COD games. I dont know why you would compare a single player game to a multi-player game with 1942.

When HL2 came out it was so far ahead of every other fps in scripting, animation, facial animation, character building, and way way way ahead in physics. It's only rival in graphics at the time was the half decent/half horrible Far Cry.

HL2 is not a single player game. It had terrible multiplayer, too.

MP has been the focus of the FPS genre for the entire HD generation. All 3 of those games had a much bigger impact on MP than HL2. MW nailed a carrot and stick reward system that permeates almost every single genre.

 

[I H8 Memes]

...gameplay?

Gameplay was great even with some week weapons. But outside of the natural feel of the physics puzzles it wasnt ahead of some other games like Halo and Farcry.

 

[Zeliard]

MW nailed a carrot and stick reward system that permeates almost every single genre.

Yeah I wouldn't chalk that up as a positive.

 

[Pureauthor]

Wouldn't it be easier for everyone involved to just sit back and play some other games until there's actual HL3 news?

 

[Draft]

Yeah I wouldn't chalk that up as a positive.

Maybe, but it's undeniably important.

 

[gabbo]

I'm not sure if this is widely known, but Gabe Newell was actually a millionaire before he founded Valve.

That Microsoft moneys helped pay for Hl1

 

[I H8 Memes]

HL2 is not a single player game. It had terrible multiplayer, too.

MP has been the focus of the FPS genre for the entire HD generation. All 3 of those games had a much bigger impact on MP than HL2. MW nailed a carrot and stick reward system that permeates almost every single genre.

Well then ...... Counter-Strike:Source, which came free with HL2, stomps the shit out of every other multi-player game ever made except CS 1.6. Happy now?

 

[Laughing Banana]

Except it isn't. Half Life has a terrific story.

....seriously?

Please elaborate, what is so terrific about Half-Life's story? Please, elaborate.

 

[Draft]

Well then ...... Counter-Strike:Source, which came free with HL2, stomps the shit out of every other multi-player game ever made except CS 1.6. Happy now?

Actually no, conversing with a terse lunatic doesn't make me happy.

 

[Satchel]

HL2 is better than Halo.

Yeah, ok. But not really.

But I guess that's what opinions are for right?

I'm going to say that after Doom, Halo was the next most influential over the genre as a whole regardless of whether the fact that's a console shooter rubs PC players up the wrong way or not.

Not trying argue quality here, but influence over the genre. At least in terms of gameplay. I give Half-Life the story side of it though.

 

[I H8 Memes]

Actually no, conversing with a terse lunatic doesn't make me happy.

Being right makes me a lunatic? Or is it just having a different opinion than you? Whats your problem dude?

Yeah, ok. But not really.

But I guess that's what opinions are for right?

I'm going to say that after Doom, Halo was the next most influential over the genre as a whole regardless of whether the fact that's a console shooter rubs PC players up the wrong way or not.

Not trying argue quality here, but influence over the genre. At least in terms of gameplay. I give Half-Life the story side of it though.

Halo and Halo 2 were both PC games. And good ones too. But not as good as HL2. Hell after playing Halo 3 or 4 times I still couldn't name for you 1 single character outside of MC and Cortana. Some bad voice acting in those games and very little in the way of believable characters. And the jumps from 1 place to another where they remove the guns that you should still have always rubs me the wrong way in games. I'm not talking about level transitions where there is some time between like the level Halo and T&R, but rather between 343 guilty spark and The Library. I have a shotgun in my hands that would be perfect for The Library, but they take it away and give me a needler. Two seconds ago I had a shotgun.

Not many single player games do open field batlles as well as Halo does though.

 

[Zeliard]

Maybe, but it's undeniably important.

Sadly

But yeah, it's certainly had major impact. Halo and Modern Warfare both introduced elements to the genre I'd much rather be without, personally. That's why I'm hoping arena shooters eventually make a comeback and bring back the more pure skill-based, timing-heavy play.

 

[The Librarian]

Gameplay was great even with some week weapons. But outside of the natural feel of the physics puzzles it wasnt ahead of some other games like Halo and Farcry.

I was just making sure. I mean, I love Half-Life 2's gameplay and all, and HL2 does beat Halo games in physics, scripting, animation, character building (with the possible exception of the Arbiter from Halo 2), but gameplay? Halo trumps Half-Life.

But Halo has made some good strides in the animation department with Reach.

 

[Arnie]

Being right makes me a lunatic? Or is it just having a different opinion than you? Whats your problem dude?

You tried to argue that Half Life 2 had great multiplayer because it came with CounterStrike Source. That's a pretty baffling statement. I love CSS, but Half Life 2 has shit multiplayer. Not that I think that matters, my main gripes with HL reside in it's weak gameplay and lazily developed protagonist.

Sadly

But yeah, it's certainly had major impact. Halo and Modern Warfare both introduced elements to the genre I'd much rather be without, personally. That's why I'm hoping arena shooters eventually make a comeback and bring back the more pure skill-based, timing-heavy play.

That's quite a hypocritical statement, Halo is the last popular arena shooter on the market, especially on consoles. It's entire premise is skill and timing.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

HL2 bitch slapped everything on the market.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Yeah, ok. But not really.

But I guess that's what opinions are for right?

I'm going to say that after Doom, Halo was the next most influential over the genre as a whole regardless of whether the fact that's a console shooter rubs PC players up the wrong way or not.

Not trying argue quality here, but influence over the genre. At least in terms of gameplay. I give Half-Life the story side of it though.

Can you give specifics? I know Halo gets alot of credit for stuff like regenerating health (which imo is not really a good thing) and dedicated grenade button, but that game wasn't the first game to come up with that. It wasn't even the first FPS.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I'm less concerned about Halo being a console shooter and more concerned about it being a fucking terrible game tbh.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

It wasn't even the first FPS.

Neither was Doom

 

[The Librarian]

I'm less concerned about Halo being a console shooter and more concerned about it being a fucking terrible game tbh.

That's like your opinion man. The campaigns are so re-playable.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

That's like your opinion man. The campaigns are so re-playable.

'cept for Reach

*goes back to replay Halo 3 for 85th time, skips Cortana again*

 

[tci]

....seriously?

Please elaborate, what is so terrific about Half-Life's story? Please, elaborate.

It's the way it is being told .. Not in your face holding your hand, like most games.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Neither was Doom

Erm... I meant the first FPS with regenerating health/dedicated grenade button. Pretty sure everyone knows Doom wasn't the first fps.

 

[Zeliard]

That's quite a hypocritical statement, Halo is the last popular arena shooter on the market, especially on consoles. It's entire premise is skill and timing.

I don't think you can ever have anything approaching true skill-based shooter gameplay when impeded with something like a gamepad and its inherent limitations. And the PC ports were just shoddy.

Gamepads ruin any shooter design I'd ever care for. It makes the games utterly worthless when handicapped to such a degree and specifically designed around such an enormous limitation as slow, imprecise player input.

Basically, you can never have a true arena game on consoles. I hate Modern Warfare considerably more than Halo and I think it's done far more damage, but Halo can't hope to ever compete with PC-centric arena shooters.

 

[matt05891]

'cept for Reach

*goes back to replay Halo 3 for 85th time, skips Cortana again*

Always gotta skip cortana

 

[The Librarian]

'cept for Reach

*goes back to replay Halo 3 for 85th time, skips Cortana again*

As soon as I finish Halo 2 re-play I'm moving on to Halo 3. Can't wait.

I don't think you can ever have anything approaching true skill-based shooter gameplay when impeded with something like a gamepad and its inherent limitations. And the PC ports were just shoddy.

Gamepads ruin any shooter design I'd ever care for. It makes the games utterly worthless when handicapped to such a degree and specifically designed around such an enormous limitation as slow, imprecise player input.

Basically, you can never have a true arena game on consoles. I hate Modern Warfare considerably more than Halo and I think it's done far more damage, but Halo can't hope to ever compete with PC-centric arena shooters.

What is "true skill-based shooter gameplay"? What qualities does it have?

 

[Arnie]

I don't think you can ever have anything approaching true skill-based shooter gameplay when impeded with something like a gamepad and its inherent limitations. And the PC ports were just shoddy.

Gamepads ruin any shooter design I'd ever care for. It makes the games utterly worthless when handicapped to such a degree and specifically designed around such an enormous limitation as slow, imprecise player input.

Basically, you can never have a true arena game on consoles. I hate Modern Warfare considerably more than Halo and I think it's done far more damage, but Halo can't hope to ever compete with PC-centric arena shooters.

That's fair enough. I remember playing CSS back in the day and just shaking my head profusely when my friends invited me over for Halo 2 LANs. Needless to say, after playing both for a long time, concurrently, my outlook has changed. I understand the limitations of a controller but the feeling I get when playing both at a high level is the same.

In both there's a direct correlation to how much time I put in versus how consistently I'm able to perform successfully, that to me is skill. In fact Halo is almost designed with the controller's fallibilities in mind:

Instead of demanding a reflexive, accurate shot like CS, it decides the superior player by how long they're able to hit a fast moving opponent over an extended period of time (with higher health). This way there's still a dividing line between the poor and the good players that involves aiming, just in a different formation to that which suits the mouse.

 

[I H8 Memes]

MS needs to stop being jerks and put the rest of the Halo series on PC.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

That's fair enough. I remember playing CSS back in the day and just shaking my head profusely when my friends invited me over for Halo 2 LANs. Needless to say, after playing both for a long time, concurrently, my outlook has changed. I understand the limitations of a controller but the feeling I get when playing both at a high level is the same.

In both there's a direct correlation to how much time I put in versus how consistently I'm able to perform successfully, that to me is skill. In fact Halo is almost designed with the controller's fallibilities in mind:

Instead of demanding a reflexive, accurate shot like CS, it decides the superior player by how long they're able to hit a fast moving opponent over an extended period of time (with higher health). This way there's still a dividing line between the poor and the good players that involves aiming, just in a different formation to that which suits the mouse.

Zeliard can speak for himself, but I don't think he's referring to CS. And arena shooters on PC have always used a variety of balanced rapid-fire weapons, Q3A has the lightning gun, machinegun and plasma gun, for example. As far as health and damage go, Q3A might see the player start out as a squishy bag of meat, but within 15 seconds of spawning a smart player will have an extra 50hp and 100 armour.

 

[Zeliard]

As soon as I finish Halo 2 re-play I'm moving on to Halo 3. Can't wait.

What is "true skill-based shooter gameplay"? What qualities does it have?

It has the qualities of something that isn't designed around the obvious limitations of a gamepad.

Compare Halo to your Quakes, UTs, Painkillers, and it should be clear. The latter games are considerably faster-paced - with a premium put on skilled movement - and with the levels featuring more verticality. Everyone also aims much more effectively given that they're using a mouse, which again makes movement that much more important, especially since you also have to run the map and time items.

And gamepads, after all, need forms of sticky aim to even begin to try to cope. Doesn't that say something?

I know you're a huge Halo guy, and honestly I don't mind the series as much as some others do, but I do think you reach a stark and natural limitation when you're dealing with gamepads. More console shooters should allow kb/m support, but then that brings in its own set of problems.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I don't think even the biggest Halo fanboy will deny it takes more skill to play at the highest level of say, Q3A then Halo 2. That would be pretty foolish.

I think it would equally foolish, however, to think Halo doesn't require "true, skill-based shooting" at a higher level. Well, at least before Reach and bloom

#fuckreach

 

[Zeliard]

That's fair enough. I remember playing CSS back in the day and just shaking my head profusely when my friends invited me over for Halo 2 LANs. Needless to say, after playing both for a long time, concurrently, my outlook has changed. I understand the limitations of a controller but the feeling I get when playing both at a high level is the same.

In both there's a direct correlation to how much time I put in versus how consistently I'm able to perform successfully, that to me is skill. In fact Halo is almost designed with the controller's fallibilities in mind:

Instead of demanding a reflexive, accurate shot like CS, it decides the superior player by how long they're able to hit a fast moving opponent over an extended period of time (with higher health). This way there's still a dividing line between the poor and the good players that involves aiming, just in a different formation to that which suits the mouse.

I'm cool with that. My problem with gamepads as far as shooters has always been that they're an unnecessary barrier between the player and the game. The input should ideally be as non-obstructive as possible, and this is why keyboard/mouse has been so effective. With a keyboard you have access to many possible binds, with several buttons in instant reach, and with a mouse you have an extremely precise and quick pointing device.

That largely allows the player's skill and talent to truly shine, rather than having to deal with a imprecise intermediary of an input that needs things like sticky aim. On console you are playing against other gamepad users and can ultimately become skilled with a gamepad, but the fact that you're still using something so limited means that the skill ceiling itself is ultimately limited. You and the players you're up against can only ever be so good.

 

[RooMHM]

Can you give specifics? I know Halo gets alot of credit for stuff like regenerating health (which imo is not really a good thing) and dedicated grenade button, but that game wasn't the first game to come up with that. It wasn't even the first FPS.

Thank you! I don't know anything that Halo brought and was actually good for the genre. Everything in this series is a downgrade compared to the best FPS from 199X-2000

 

[EatChildren]

Halo fans? In my Half-Life thread?

 

[Satchel]

Can you give specifics? I know Halo gets alot of credit for stuff like regenerating health (which imo is not really a good thing) and dedicated grenade button, but that game wasn't the first game to come up with that. It wasn't even the first FPS.

Doing things first, and influencing others aren't one and the same. You know that yeah?

Did Microsoft influence the market with motion sensing controllers? No? Why not? They had it long before Nintendo and Sony did.