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[CortanaV]

Add me to the Mako lovers. Umm, I hope no one reads that outside of the context of Mass Effect.

Shhh. This will be our little secret.

Actually, I was driving like an idiot in ME1 on one of the "kill the fuck out of Cerberus because you're the Akuze survivor" missions and my mom walks in to comment on how much I suck at driving.

"Oh my gosh! How are you not dead? That's a cliff!"
"Why are you driving over those guys?! Josephine, oh my God. Look at that! You made me swear at a video game!"
"It has a gun, too? And you're driving off a cliff on a frozen Mars?"

 

[Oblivionmancer]

You make some valid points, but it doesnt change my position. Shepard is still a hollow vessel for the player. That doesnt mean Shepard can be whatever the player wants them to be, we are still limited by the scope and overall plot of the game0. Shepard will always be a hero, the only one capable of saving the galaxy, but that doesnt mean Shepard has any kind of personality or feelings independent of the player.

I think a better way to portray the relationship between the player and Shepard is like that of a director and an actor. Especially with how the dialogue system works, we choose the direction and tone we want the conversion to go in and Shepard makes it happen, but things never deviate from the path we choose it to go in and Shepard never adds in his/her personal feelings or thoughts on a subject unless we direct them to do so. Shepard isnt that much deeper than your stereotypical action hero, there is no internal conflict, no personal musings or anything like that, we as the director get to decide what kind of hero theyll be.

Even Shepards love interests are just one sided. Shepard never opens up, theres nothing wrong with them that they need to give themselves to someone else for emotional support and closure, its all about the other, because to do so would break from that of the player and make Shepard an individual apart from the player.

You're entitled to that point of view and all, but I think it pretty clearly attributes more power to the player than we actually have, not to mention more power to a director in your analogy--sure the director has a say, but I think any screenwriter would be troubled by your implication that the writing doesn't play any role in creating a character.

Maybe more to the point, if Shepard isn't a character on the basis of the authorship that defines him, then I kind of feel that the conclusion that has to follow is that mass effect has no characters, because his supporting cast isn't exactly any deeper. For the most part they're just ciphers for the lore of their corresponding races and factions; so I think that it's safe to say that Shepard is a pretty thin character, but so is everyone else in these games. You might be willing to bite that bullet, and if so more power to you, but I think most of us wouldn't go so far as to say the games have no characters at all.

What you describe might match Bioware's intent, but what we actually get is a few barely functional agency simulating buttons and levers to play with while their pulp space opera plays on regardless. Sure I, the director, get a color coded list of choices for how Shepard reacts to a subset of the situations he encounters, but those possible reactions are couched in, and limited by, his initial point of view about the world, and his available means for dealing with it; if they weren't, then Bioware wouldn't have control of the basically linear, scripted ride that they are guiding us through.

In an odd sort of way, I guess what I'm getting at is that is your argument about Shepard being a cipher for the players intent is actually giving Bioware too much credit, which is actually a bit sad, the implication that an actual character is the lesser achievement. Still it's true, I think; how can Shepard be a stand in for the player's choices if we don't really have any? That's the final nail then; if you're right about Shepard not being a character, and he fails to function as a cipher for player agency, then I guess he's nothing at all.

Spoiler

then who stops Reapers ohno

 

[Fimbulvetr]

I love Ashley's character. *puts flame suit on*

Why would you need a flame suit? She and Wrex were the only good characters in ME1.

 

[entremet]

Why would you need a flame suit? She and Wrex were the only good characters in ME1.

No love for Liara?

 

[CortanaV]

Why would you need a flame suit? She and Wrex were the only good characters in ME1.

*Loves* People would freak out at me and be all like, "OH MAH GAWD. SHE'S A XENOPHOBIC BITCH!!!1"

Then I posted this and a lot of people shut the hell up:

 

[hateradio]

*Loves* People would freak out at me and be all like, "OH MAH GAWD. SHE'S A XENOPHOBIC BITCH!!!1"

Then I posted this and a lot of people shut the hell up:

Meh. They're robots. Everyone's always cautions of robots.

 

[CortanaV]

Meh. They're robots. Everyone's always cautions of robots.

I, for one, welcome our new robot overlords.

No love for Liara?

Liara was an annoying little twat in ME1. In ME2, she grows up more (she's young for an Asari, after all), especially since she's working in a much darker side of the galaxy's civilization.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

No love for Liara?

She gets points for not just being a living encyclopedia or Kaiden I guess, but love for the swooning, moe geek-bait? No.

 

[CortanaV]

She gets points for not just being a living encyclopedia or Kaiden I guess, but love for the swooning, moe geek-bait? No.

Don't get me wrong, I've grown to love Liara's character. But on top of what you just said, she looks up your entire goddamn file, swoons over it, then praises your mating potential... Openly admits all of this in the same conversation. Even when trying to carry on professional conversation, she doesn't exactly take no for an answer with the romance line unless you flat out say "no, I'm not 'embracing eternity' with you." And if you get the scene where you have to choose between Ash/Kaidan and Liara, she STAYS WITH YOU if you ask for a threesome in the sleaziest way possible, while the human LI has enough sense to realize that your Shepard is just being a horny asshole and that it would be best to just leave.

On top of that (for science) I treated her like crap in ME1, she resurrects "me" and then says that she couldn't let me go. Excuse me, I'm a renegade asshole who treated you like the daughter of your mother and nothing else. You can't let me go?

/rant

P.S. I still love Liara.

 

[inky]

They certainly wanted to enhance Ashley's feminine side, or so I read somewhere, but she does look a lot different, at least in the leaked demo. They fucked up her nose and eyebrows, probably due to an overzealot designer/modeler because other models -like Anderson's- do look a lot different. The thing is, no one cares about how he looks anyway

The "out of character" comment is spot on though. I mean, they put fucking high heels in her new military issued suit, the long, brushed hair look is definitely unexpected for a hard ass traditional marine like herself and if we go by the demo again the first time you see her she is evidently on duty or around where you are supposed to meet the committee, but, I mean, fucking war is on Earth's doorstep so why is she keeping herself so cute anyway. It's just too much.

 

[delirium]

*Loves* People would freak out at me and be all like, "OH MAH GAWD. SHE'S A XENOPHOBIC BITCH!!!1"

Then I posted this and a lot of people shut the hell up:

That's because she's probably written as one of the more realistic characters in the game. But you also have to see that the audience that plays Mass Effect is completely different from a normal audience. They're sci-fi fans, and distrusting aliens to a sci-fi fan is a mortal sin.

I really like her character and it is appalling what Bioware is doing to her for ME3.

 

[CortanaV]

They certainly wanted to enhance Ashley's feminine side, or so I read somewhere, but she does look a lot different, at least in the leaked demo. They fucked up her nose and eyebrows, probably due to an overzealot designer/modeler because other models -like Anderson's- do look a lot different. The thing is, no one cares about how he looks anyway

The "out of character" comment is spot on though. I mean, they put fucking high heels in her new military issued suit, the long, brushed hair look is definitely unexpected for a hard ass traditional marine like herself and if we go by the demo again the first time you see her she is evidently on duty or around where you are supposed to meet the committee, but, I mean, fucking war is on Earth's doorstep so why is she keeping herself so cute anyway. It's just too much.

She was sexy in the first place. Letting her hair down would have been enough. Ashley is so much of a function over fashion type girl in the first place. But I guess the excuse for the heels is that she's in her "casual" outfit and its her Spectre regalia.

I would be okay if these heels has switchblades or something. But, yeah, she's wearing that while in front of the Alliance leaders. Zip up your jacket and pull up your hair, sweetie!

 

[JWong]

Replaying ME2 with the DLC to get my save ready. The DLCs are quite good.

Anyone know what's the point of playing the game a second time? ME3 only cares for plot points, right?

I, for one, welcome our new robot overlords.

Gonna romance EDI, I see.

I'd tap that metal ass. Would.

 

[CortanaV]

Replaying ME2 with the DLC to get my save ready. The DLCs are quite good.

Anyone know what's the point of playing the game a second time? ME3 only cares for plot points, right?



Gonna romance EDI, I see.

I'd tap that metal ass. Would.

The only point would be to redo it with the stats you earned from the previous playthough/fixing plot points.

 

[Enduin]

I think that says it all.

You're entitled to that point of view and all, but I think it pretty clearly attributes more power to the player than we actually have, not to mention more power to a director in your analogy--sure the director has a say, but I think any screenwriter would be troubled by your implication that the writing doesn't play any role in creating a character.

Maybe more to the point, if Shepard isn't a character on the basis of the authorship that defines him, then I kind of feel that the conclusion that has to follow is that mass effect has no characters, because his supporting cast isn't exactly any deeper. For the most part they're just ciphers for the lore of their corresponding races and factions; so I think that it's safe to say that Shepard is a pretty thin character, but so is everyone else in these games. You might be willing to bite that bullet, and if so more power to you, but I think most of us wouldn't go so far as to say the games have no characters at all.

What you describe might match Bioware's intent, but what we actually get is a few barely functional agency simulating buttons and levers to play with while their pulp space opera plays on regardless. Sure I, the director, get a color coded list of choices for how Shepard reacts to a subset of the situations he encounters, but those possible reactions are couched in, and limited by, his initial point of view about the world, and his available means for dealing with it; if they weren't, then Bioware wouldn't have control of the basically linear, scripted ride that they are guiding us through.

In an odd sort of way, I guess what I'm getting at is that is your argument about Shepard being a cipher for the players intent is actually giving Bioware too much credit, which is actually a bit sad, the implication that an actual character is the lesser achievement. Still it's true, I think; how can Shepard be a stand in for the player's choices if we don't really have any? That's the final nail then; if you're right about Shepard not being a character, and he fails to function as a cipher for player agency, then I guess he's nothing at all.

Spoiler

then who stops Reapers ohno

Wow ok, you took things like ten times deeper and more serious than I ever intended with that analogy.

Shepard is a character, there are basic characteristics and traits, but thats all surface level stuff, if you try to go deeper there isnt anything there, there are no convictions or personal feelings, because that would then influence and possibly negate the players thoughts and feelings on things, resulting in a Shepard that is fundamentally different from what the player wants. BioWare's intent is to provide a vessel for the players to occupy that fulfills a certain role, that being the galactic hero this results in many obvious limitations, but he/she is still mailable enough to allow the play to choose, to a degree, just what kind of hero he/she will be. This is why we get to choose their appearance and sex. BioWare removed as many of the obstacles as they could to allow players to have their own Shepard. Maybe not to be Shepard exactly, but to be able to roleplay as much as possible were they Shepard.

I dont know how you think the director analogy attributes too much power, or that it somehow threatens the screenwriter or authorship of a character. As a director youre beholden to the script, its your job to interpret how that script is played out. You direct the actors and tell them what kind of emotions or feelings they should be having when they say a line which is much like what we do with Shepard. The script has already been finished, the general outcome of the game has been decided, but it was never decided just what kind of hero the main character would be, so its up to us to decide just exactly how Shepard will react and deal with everything that has to occur. We direct them as we see fit within the confines of the story.

To say the other characters in the game in fact have no character is just silly. While many act as ambassadors to their particular faction or race, they still all hold specific beliefs and feelings on various issues and subjects. They have convictions, fears and hopes. They have pasts with actions and people that effected them and how they deal with the world around them. That gives them character, that is a personality. Shepard has little to none of that until we the player chooses it for him/her. Outside of the very basic hero framework there is nothing about Shepard that make him/her inclined to a particular position or feeling. We get to decide if Shepard thinks the Genophage was good or bad, if the Krogan deserve what they got, or if it was simply something that happened and must be dealt with. We get to decide whether to punch that guy, or to save another one.

 

[Trokil]

Bioware used to have no problem with strong female characters, why are they turning Ashley from a Marine into a Barbie doll?

After Star Wars i am really starting to deslike Bioware.

 

[JWong]

I think GAF doesn't like hair.

If Ashley was bald in ME3, there would be no problem.

 

[CortanaV]

I think GAF doesn't like hair.

If Ashley was bald in ME3, there would be no problem.

Speaking of no hair, I'm sure there's an entire fandom dedicated to Jack's head.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Bioware used to have no problem with strong female characters, why are they turning Ashley from a Marine into a Barbie doll?

After Star Wars i am really starting to deslike Bioware.

Even if you don't like hair, her having long hair/small amounts of make up doesn't translate into her not being tough/strong.

Many beautiful women are strong. I'm going to wait and see, and if Bioware has her turn down going on a mission to get her nails done or starts talking about the size of her ass/wanting to go to the mall then I will be with all the hate.

Until then there is nothing wrong with altering the model to show off Ashley in a more feminine/sexy way so long as it doesn't get in the way of her being a hardass at heart.

 

[Trokil]

I think GAF doesn't like hair.

If Ashley was bald in ME3, there would be no problem.

Do you know the problem with long hair on the battlefield.

It's not like the army just likes short hair, there is a practical reason why ground forces usually don't have long hair. And Ashley is a leatherneck, she was portrayed in Mass Effect 1 like one, even in Mass Effect, that's so unlike her.

The can also give Jack a nice dress and curly locks, but that would be stupid as well.

 

[JWong]

Do you know the problem with long hair on the battlefield.

It's not like the army just likes short hair, there is a practical reason why ground forces usually don't have long hair. And Ashley is a leatherneck, she was portrayed in Mass Effect 1 like one, even in Mass Effect, that's so unlike her.

The can also give Jack a nice dress and curly locks, but that would be stupid as well.

I don't care.

GAF killed the hair on Cole McGrath.

Such hair haters!

 

[CortanaV]

Do you know the problem with long hair on the battlefield.

It's not like the army just likes short hair, there is a practical reason why ground forces usually don't have long hair. And Ashley is a leatherneck, she was portrayed in Mass Effect 1 like one, even in Mass Effect, that's so unlike her.

The can also give Jack a nice dress and curly locks, but that would be stupid as well.

But... But... Miranda has long hair. Like, I want an alternate hair option along with an alternate uniform option. The ponytail concept I posted earlier was FRAKKING GORGEOUS. I WISH that they'd gone with it.

I can't believe her hair is down in her ARMOR, too!

 

[Enduin]

Its not just the hair, her face just looks bad now and the hair looks awkward, its not a matter of it being long but simply weird looking. It looks as if they gave her over to the intern modeller. Especially when compared to her old model and other character from ME2. Jack, Kelly, Zaeed, Morinth and every one else in ME2 looked fantastic, they have great detail and complexity to their faces, and they never look off or weird in different lighting or with various expressions. They all look quite natural and realistic. Ash now looks like one of those bad before and after plastic surgery pictures, where youre constantly trying to figure out just what makes them look so incredibly off.

I dont mind making Ash more sexy looking, her new outfit is fine by me, the problem is they did a really bad job at updating her appearance and instead of making it better they made her awkward and weird looking to the point of being annoying.

 

[Trokil]

But... But... Miranda has long hair.

Yes, but Miranda was always portrayed more like an operative. She knows how to fight, but she is using her brain or her female attributes to get what she wants. She sits in her office, gathering intelligence.

Ashley was always the practical person. You find her in the hangar of the Normandy looking after the guns or cleaning her equipment. It's so unlike her to suddenly become a fashion victim.

 

[CortanaV]

Its not just the hair, her face just looks bad now and the hair looks awkward, its not a matter of it being long but simply weird looking. It looks as if they gave her over to the intern modeller. Especially when compared to her old model and other character from ME2. Jack, Kelly, Zaeed, Morinth and every one else in ME2 looked fantastic, they have great detail and complexity to their faces, and they never look off or weird in different lighting or with various expressions. They all look quite natural and realistic. Ash now looks like one of those bad before and after plastic surgery pictures, where youre constantly trying to figure out just what makes them look so incredibly off.

I dont mind making Ash more sexy looking, her new outfit is fine by me, the problem is they did a really bad job at updating her appearance and instead of making it better they made her awkward and weird looking to the point of being annoying.

Ugh, I've got such a torn opinion on this. On one hand, I'm happy that she's getting this makeover, but I think that it was executed poorly. In a lot of the screencaps I've seen, her eyebrows make her look pissed off. Hell, the make up kind of makes her look one of the Kardashian girls.

On the other hand, I still like it... But I don't... But I do... *frustrated*

 

[Balehead]

It seems like they went with a ladyboy look which could turn out to be quite interesting when done by none other than Bioware.

 

[Enduin]

My wishful thinking is hoping theyve changed her since her reveal. Theres not a single shred of evidence she exists on the official website, despite every other known squadmate, even Kaidan, and several former ones being shown in the screenshots. As well shes not in any of the official trailers or other media.

Im pretty sure there was some serious backlash when she was first shown, so maybe BioWare took it to heart and has made some changes. At least I hope so, but Im not expecting anything.

 

[SomeDude]

it's a horrible franchise.

 

[Oblivionmancer]

Wow ok, you took things like ten times deeper and more serious than I ever intended with that analogy.

Shepard is a character, there are basic characteristics and traits, but thats all surface level stuff, if you try to go deeper there isnt anything there, there are no convictions or personal feelings, because that would then influence and possibly negate the players thoughts and feelings on things, resulting in a Shepard that is fundamentally different from what the player wants. BioWare's intent is to provide a vessel for the players to occupy that fulfills a certain role, that being the galactic hero this results in many obvious limitations, but he/she is still mailable enough to allow the play to choose, to a degree, just what kind of hero he/she will be. This is why we get to choose their appearance and sex. BioWare removed as many of the obstacles as they could to allow players to have their own Shepard. Maybe not to be Shepard exactly, but to be able to roleplay as much as possible were they Shepard.

This simply isn't true; the reality is that most of what Shepard does isn't really up to the player; the kind of hero that Shepard is is basically the same for everyone; even if he decides to talk the first two guards he catches flatfooted in the office on Noveria into walking away, he still mows down the other dozen every single time. That's my entire point really, Bioware's intent isn't to create a blank slate that the players agency defines, their intent is precisely to create the illusion of that.

I dont know how you think the director analogy attributes too much power, or that it somehow threatens the screenwriter or authorship of a character. As a director youre beholden to the script, its your job to interpret how that script is played out. You direct the actors and tell them what kind of emotions or feelings they should be having when they say a line which is much like what we do with Shepard. The script has already been finished, the general outcome of the game has been decided, but it was never decided just what kind of hero the main character would be, so its up to us to decide just exactly how Shepard will react and deal with everything that has to occur. We direct them as we see fit within the confines of the story.

Wait a minute, that's my line. The difference is you're attribution of some substantial power to define Shepard as a person within those confines, a power that isn't really there. Shepard, again, is basically the same guy from start to finish regardless, with the same feats accomplished; the biggest difference possible is how much of a dick he decides to be about it.

To say the other characters in the game in fact have no character is just silly. While many act as ambassadors to their particular faction or race, they still all hold specific beliefs and feelings on various issues and subjects. They have convictions, fears and hopes. They have pasts with actions and people that effected them and how they deal with the world around them. That gives them character, that is a personality.

Again, that's the point that I was making. Where we disagree is the notion that the other characters are particularly more well rendered than Shepard. Shepard has all the things that you describe here, with the unique possibility of saying a different sentence or two which progresses his agenda to the same end anyway. Of course it's fair to say that Shepard is less strictly defined than his compatriots, but that is a difference of degree, not a difference of kind.

Shepard has little to none of that until we the player chooses it for him/her. Outside of the very basic hero framework there is nothing about Shepard that make him/her inclined to a particular position or feeling. We get to decide if Shepard thinks the Genophage was good or bad, if the Krogan deserve what they got, or if it was simply something that happened and must be dealt with. We get to decide whether to punch that guy, or to save another one.

There's a lot said here, but to respond to the bold bit, what we actually get to decide is what Shepard says he thinks about the Genophage, which we can readily change back and forth each time it comes up with no recognizable impact on the world; which plays into my running theory that Shepard's character is that of a total sociopath

To crystallize, my experience playing Mass effect was most often about defining Shepard's mood at any given moment, not painting a previously absent characterization across a blank canvas. If you feel the opposite than so be it, but I frankly don't feel Bioware deserves the kind of credit you're giving them.

 

[Ahasverus]

IF you find Ashley attractive (BOTH new and old) there's something wrong with you. She's a complete and total everywoman, and the new design only givs her new clothes and hair, she's not pretty, at all.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Oh no she has her hair different. The extremely deep character of Ashley Williams has been ruined. Both of her fans will be crushed to hear the news.

 

[Enduin]

This simply isn't true; the reality is that most of what Shepard does isn't really up to the player; the kind of hero that Shepard is is basically the same for everyone; even if he decides to talk the first two guards he catches flatfooted in the office on Noveria into walking away, he still mows down the other dozen every single time. That's my entire point really, Bioware's intent isn't to create a blank slate that the players agency defines, their intent is precisely to create the illusion of that.

Wait a minute, that's my line. The difference is you're attribution of some substantial power to define Shepard as a person within those confines, a power that isn't really there. Shepard, again, is basically the same guy from start to finish regardless, with the same feats accomplished; the biggest difference possible is how much of a dick he decides to be about it.

Again, that's the point that I was making. Where we disagree is the notion that the other characters are particularly more well rendered than Shepard. Shepard has all the things that you describe here, with the unique possibility of saying a different sentence or two which progresses his agenda to the same end anyway. Of course it's fair to say that Shepard is less strictly defined than his compatriots, but that is a difference of degree, not a difference of kind.

There's a lot said here, but to respond to the bold bit, what we actually get to decide is what Shepard says he thinks about the Genophage, which we can readily change back and forth each time it comes up with no recognizable impact on the world; which plays into my running theory that Shepard's character is that of a total sociopath

To crystallize, my experience playing Mass effect was most often about defining Shepard's mood at any given moment, not painting a previously absent characterization across a blank canvas. If you feel the opposite than so be it, but I frankly don't feel Bioware deserves the kind of credit you're giving them.

It basically comes down to the fact that I find more freedom in the systems and choices BioWare has allotted the player and you do not and feel as though the "choices" you are able to make are really cosmetic more than anything else and provide little to no systematic change to the way anything plays out in the series or how Shepard fundamentally acts. Which I can totally understand.

I cant lie, I love this series freakishly. I have beaten both games about a dozen times each, as various classes, sexes and roleplaying choices. While the freedom to choose who your Shepard is, is extremely limited due to the nature of the narrative and experience BioWare is trying to present, I have still found it all immensely worthwhile and engaging.

While it is somewhat rare depending on your choices you can get some really amazing and different events to transpire, like on Noveria, where you can be a total dick and not only screw over the chick investigating the corporate head, but you can get that corporate head to freak out, kill the investigator and then shoot himself. It might be an illusion most of the time, but its a fun one.

 

[heliosRAzi]

You guys know what's really wrong with the Mass Effect franchise besides the stories and asinine changes Bioware has made?

This:

Why haven't they gotten better facial animation yet? I can watch a No More Heroes clip and see those characters emote better than Space Jesus and Beefnuts McMuscleSlab

 

[Moaradin]

That is mostly an issue with the whole industry, not just Mass Effect games. Very few games get facial expressions right.

 

[Rei no Otaku]

*Loves* People would freak out at me and be all like, "OH MAH GAWD. SHE'S A XENOPHOBIC BITCH!!!1"

Then I posted this and a lot of people shut the hell up:

I can excuse Tali a bit though. Her situation with the geth is a bit different than Ashley's. Ashley is distrustful of all races even though the turians were the only species to ever go to war with humanity, and that was over a misunderstanding. On the other hand, the quarians were driven from their planet, forced to wander the galaxy on ragged ships, causing them to have to live in suits all their lives, and putting their entire species on the verge of extinction. Yes, they did try to initially wipe out the geth but it was quite understandable to me. I mean if my computer suddenly asks me if it has a soul I'm getting a hammer and smashing it to pieces.

 

[MrCookiepants]

Oh no she has her hair different. The extremely deep character of Ashley Williams has been ruined. Both of her fans will be crushed to hear the news.

Basically this.

 

[shinobi602]

I really like her character and it is appalling what Bioware is doing to her for ME3.

What's that?

 

[shinobi602]

I mean if my computer suddenly asks me if it has a soul I'm getting a hammer and smashing it to pieces.

Really? I'd probably be fucking amazed and start having conversations with it to see what the hell is up.

 

[heliosRAzi]

That is mostly an issue with the whole industry, not just Mass Effect games. Very few games get facial expressions right.

No More Heroes had better facial animation than this. Every time I see clips from ME3, I feel like I've plunged head first into the uncanny valley

 

[Kimaka]

*Loves* People would freak out at me and be all like, "OH MAH GAWD. SHE'S A XENOPHOBIC BITCH!!!1"

Then I posted this and a lot of people shut the hell up:

It has only been about thirty years since first contact which broke out in a war. Her distrust of other species was pretty understandable.

I played a Renegade Shepard that, while for the advancement of humanity and distrustful of aliens, wanted more cooperation between all species. The choices you get in both games were too binary and I wish there was a bit more middle ground between loving all aliens and agreeing with the extreme side of Cerberus.

 

[scarybore]

It's amazing how much more thought was put into that short little essay than the entirety of, Deception.

Deception is such a colossal piece of shit.

Having just finished reading Deception, I can only agree with you.

The Mass Effect novels have never been amazing, but Deception is truly awful, pointless and makes so little sense that I can only imagine it was written in a rush by Philip J. Fry while fighting off evil brains. So fucking bad that there's a google doc page listing various errors, it's currently on 65!

With that, I'm done giving Bioware money for this crap anymore. I really love the universe but the recent books and all the comics are doing their best to shit upon it from a great height and it just ain't worth it.

 

[EatChildren]

So fucking bad that there's a google doc page listing various errors, it's currently on 65!

Fucking looooooooooool. Oh my god so many huge errors. Dietz obviously had no interest or foreknowledge of the series he was asked to pen. Jesus.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

I think that says it all.

It honestly doesn't even look like the same person.

 

[R_thanatos]

Having just finished reading Deception, I can only agree with you.

The Mass Effect novels have never been amazing, but Deception is truly awful, pointless and makes so little sense that I can only imagine it was written in a rush by Philip J. Fry while fighting off evil brains. So fucking bad that there's a google doc page listing various errors, it's currently on 65!

With that, I'm done giving Bioware money for this crap anymore. I really love the universe but the recent books and all the comics are doing their best to shit upon it from a great height and it just ain't worth it.

So many pages ..so they basicly published a bad & innacurate fanfic ???

 

[diamondstar]

Some quick bitching since I am currently replaying both games to get my saves ready.

ME2:
Every time I recruit someone and Shepard mentions "the mission" I almost cringe. It is just not believable at ALL. It really is like you are playing two games in one that are not connected and really shouldn't be connected.

I thought of something else last night in regard to how this trilogy has been handled. I don't mind the recruiting and I love the character development. My problem with it is it's misplacement. I really think this could have been done prior to the events of Mass Effect. Or....I think I wouldn't have looked at it as bad if the end of Mass Effect hadn't happened. During ME you go through the whole game figuring out who the Reapers are and trying to prove their existence. Let's say ME ended with only fighting Saren.. Or let's say the whole time Saren was using the Geth to build a Reaper replica. What was the reason he was using the Geth anyway? Then it could have set up Mass Effect 2 better because people would still not believe the Reaper story due to Saren's fake Reaper. But only Shepard knows the real truth because of the Sovereign conversation. Hell Shepard may even question the Reaper threat if Saren built a fake one.

Then you would end ME2 with Arrival not the terminator baby and that would better set up the events of ME3. The problem with ME2 is the fact that the Reaper threat and urgency was non-existent. It's almost like ME2 didn't have a main story. Or at least one that was worth caring about.

 

[LightofRohan]

Dropping off Water_Wendi's great thread:
What? LTTP: MASS EFFECT is evolving!

Oh wow, Star Control 2 is a lot better than ME1? Imma check it out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP7ZtF1Yc14&feature=related

:| I don't understand nostalgic gamers.

 

[Enduin]

Good lord! That book sounds like a mess and here I was looking forward to it. Drew's books weren't outstanding literature but the were fun and decent world builders. What would possess Bioware to switch writers for this book?

What's even sadder is the fact that Dietz it's a professional sci fi writer whose done a ton of tie in books so you would think he wouldn't fuck things up so incredibly badly.

 

[scarybore]

Fucking looooooooooool. Oh my god so many huge errors. Dietz obviously had no interest or foreknowledge of the series he was asked to pen. Jesus.

Yeah, Dietz obviously didn't give a fuck and judging by the fact the book was released, neither did Bioware. I was worried beforehand as the only book I have read by him was Halo Flood which in itself was rubbish but I decided how bad could it be? Joke is on me I guess.

Knowing your previous mentions of the books, the only thing that you would enjoy is

Spoiler

that they kill off Nick, who amazingly is even more annoying and prevalent in this book by joining a biotic cult who wants to usurp the citadel council and rule all the non-biotic plebs, and who falls in love but then she gets kil... ah, fuck this shit.

So many pages ..so they basicly published a bad & innacurate fanfic ???

That is almost insulting to fanfics, I'm sure they would at least grasp the very basics of the universe and do some simple fact checking. Wonder if any fan fics would have

Spoiler

a bizarre scene of a Cerberus assassin (Kai Leng) planting bugs in Anderson's room and then helping himself to some space coco pops though.

Good lord! That book sounds like a mess and here I was looking forward to it. Drew's books weren't outstanding literature but the were fun and decent world builders. What would possess Bioware to switch writers for this book?

What's even sadder is the fact that Dietz it's a professional sci fi writer whose done a ton of tie in books so you would think he wouldn't fuck things up so incredibly badly.

Drew was too busy working on The Old Republic as far as I've heard, he had his faults and made errors too but it was a lot better than this gobshite of a book. I'm just glad I only spent £4 on this mess. I mean, absolutely nothing happens. Nothing.

 

[LightofRohan]

Hey shitty. I'm almost done with Retribution... so I shouldnt get Deception?

 

[AgentP]

To hell with the haters, Mass Effect 2 is one of the best games this gen, way better than the first one.

No, the first had story and newness. The second was filler with a bunch of lame side quest and a bad main story. The combat may have been better, but everything else was worse. I plowed through ME2 and traded it in ASAP, was even happy when chars started dying. I'll be skipping ME3, the hype and reviews will not fool me again.