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anaron · Jan 31, 2012

Something I feel most of the Compilation games/movies have done a great job with. Even if you hate the additional new characters or scenarios that have been tossed in, you can't deny the depiction of the world has been both an improvement but also faithful to the original source material.

Purists may complain, but I'll take a modernized FFVII world that doesn't have odd camera angles, bizarre character models, and overly huge CG breasts.

Well, agree to disagree. Nothing in the compilation has come close to resembling or building on VII's quirky charms. The world depiction belonging to it now is as a dreary, souless imitation of the original.

EDIT: good god, I am totally missing the mark with spellings lately!

mattp · Jan 31, 2012

jaxword · Jan 31, 2012

greyshark said:
That is pretty mature turn for a game that did not venture anywhere close to that type of subject in the rest of the game. And if it truly did happen, why has it not been mentioned at all in any of the FF7 compilation titles? You'd think with a moment that big they'd at least say a couple words about it.

That's not how I read it. They discussed a more extreme plan but they didn't go through with it. They also had discussions about making Wall Market considerably more risque with Tifa actually whoring herself out to earn her way into the Don's bedroom, but that didn't happen either.

It was mentioned in the compilation. Cloud and Tifa are living together in AC.

And no, they weren't talking about cut material. They flat out said Cloud and Tifa got together that night.

BocoDragon · Jan 31, 2012

Question: Was there ever a fan re-translation of FFVII? It could really use one.

greyshark · Jan 31, 2012

jaxword said:
And no, they weren't talking about cut material. They flat out said Cloud and Tifa got together that night.

Link to the quote?

Dreamer RD · Jan 31, 2012

Replayed it few days ago on ps3. Epic shit. Emerald Weapon still giving me the chills when passing by underwater. Chocobo breeding is boring as fuck though, but had to breed Blue and Green ones to kill weapons without KOTR (quadra magic + demi)

Im still a little confused why Cloud forgot Zack in the behinning of FF7. In CCFF7 ending he saw flashbacks of him and was screaming when realised what price Zack had to pay to save him.
Is it mako poisoning?

SOLDIER · Jan 31, 2012

greyshark said:
Link to the quote?

Still such a heated debate it needed its own link: http://thelifestream.net/ffvii-adve...9/this-just-in-the-love-triangle-debate-over/

But as the sequels/supplemental material reveal, their relationship is still on the rocky side. They still have inner conflicts to overcome, much of it the result of what they endured in the original game.

But this also results in what, in my opinion, constitutes a more believable and endearing relationship. For all the lovey-dovey dialog in FFXIII, it's what isn't being said with Cloud and Tifa that convinces me that they have the best romance in the entire franchise. Her own quote pretty much defines their relationship to a Tee(fa).

It seems most people can't see past subtlety, and refuse to acknowledge this until they have a teary-eyed makeout session ala FFX.

Of course, I would like the same too, but I firmly believe they're saving that for when they choose to put an end to the FFVII franchise forever. Or maybe the Remake.

jaxword · Jan 31, 2012

greyshark said:
Link to the quote?

Thelifestream guys, who literally spent 15 years of their lives arguing this, have all the translations:

http://thelifestream.net/final-fant...0th-anniversary-ultimania-for-the-one-i-love/

http://thelifestream.net/ffvii-adve...9/this-just-in-the-love-triangle-debate-over/

http://ultimania.ff7compilation.net/ff7cc/tifa.php

Jaxter09 · Jan 31, 2012

Isn't Loveless just a homage to the album? I mean, it even says My Bloody Valentine on the poster.

Dreamer RD said:
Replayed it few days ago on ps3. Epic shit. Emerald Weapon still giving me the chills when passing by underwater. Chocobo breeding is boring as fuck though, but had to breed Blue and Green ones to kill weapons without KOTR (quadra magic + demi)

Im still a little confused why Cloud forgot Zack in the behinning of FF7. In CCFF7 ending he saw flashbacks of him and was screaming when realised what price Zack had to pay to save him.
Is it mako poisoning?

You can get Quad Magic without a chocobo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCuB4kbR2qc

anaron · Jan 31, 2012

Belinda Butcher. <3

Shadow780 · Jan 31, 2012

So that's why Cloud went into his 2nd depression in AC, the sex was terrible.

Dreamer RD · Jan 31, 2012

Jaxter09 said:
You can get Quad Magic without a chocobo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCuB4kbR2qc

Not working on PS3 unfortunately

jaxword · Jan 31, 2012

BocoDragon said:
Question: Was there ever a fan re-translation of FFVII? It could really use one.

Yes, there have been attempts.

Complete ones? Well...like a lot of fan projects, they tend to be unfinished. Example:

http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=792933f9b8a0ed14e769c2885dbde014&board=15.0

Arguably, the PC version is a retranslation because it fixes a lot of the mistakes.

jaxword · Jan 31, 2012

Dreamer RD said:
Im still a little confused why Cloud forgot Zack in the behinning of FF7. In CCFF7 ending he saw flashbacks of him and was screaming when realised what price Zack had to pay to save him.
Is it mako poisoning?

That's exactly what it was, and the entire POINT of Cloud's character. I'm a little surprised you missed that, to be honest. Cloud's mind, which was already plagued by self-esteem issues and depression, completely snapped under Hojo's experiments and he faked being a hero with the best template he had: Zack.

Also remember that Jenova cells cause mimicry, so that ALSO added to Cloud's imprinting of Zack.

greyshark · Jan 31, 2012

jaxword said:
Thelifestream guys, who literally spent 15 years of their lives arguing this, have all the translations:

http://thelifestream.net/final-fant...0th-anniversary-ultimania-for-the-one-i-love/

http://thelifestream.net/ffvii-adve...9/this-just-in-the-love-triangle-debate-over/

http://ultimania.ff7compilation.net/ff7cc/tifa.php

None of those links have anyone from Square saying they had sex that night. FF7 as a whole (the main game anyway) seemed to go out of its way to avoid the subject of sex. To have Tifa and Cloud consummate their relationship at that moment is inconsistent with the rest of the game's presentation.

jaxword · Jan 31, 2012

greyshark said:
None of those links have anyone from Square saying they had sex that night. FF7 as a whole (the main game anyway) seemed to go out of its way to avoid the subject of sex. To have Tifa and Cloud consummate their relationship at that moment is inconsistent with the rest of the game's presentation.

Good lord, man, I'm starting to think you're trolling. FF7 is full of sex, there's a brothel, hookers, bestiality, panty jokes, boob jokes, homosexual bathing, and offcamera sex scenes.

"Thanks to Tifa, Cloud regains himself, and before the final battle with Sephiroth, without using words, he confirms with her that their feelings match."

What on earth do you think that means? He used sign language?

BocoDragon · Jan 31, 2012

I always thought it was implied that Tifa and Cloud may have hooked up. It's not something to really be "confirmed" one way or the other, but I think it's something that the story always intentionally "allowed" for you to assume.

greyshark · Jan 31, 2012

jaxword said:
Good lord, man, I'm starting to think you're trolling. FF7 is full of sex, there's a brothel, hookers, bestiality, panty jokes, and offcamera sex scenes.

"Thanks to Tifa, Cloud regains himself, and before the final battle with Sephiroth, without using words, he confirms with her that their feelings match."

What on earth do you think that means? He used sign language?

Honestly I just took the dialogue when I first read it at face value. Is the only way you can convey to someone you love them either by words or sex?

EDIT: I like this answer.

BocoDragon said:
I always thought it was implied that Tifa and Cloud may have hooked up. It's not something to really be "confirmed" one way or the other, but I think it's something that the story always intentionally "allowed" for you to assume.

jaxword · Jan 31, 2012

greyshark said:
Honestly I just took the dialogue when I first read it at face value. Is the only way you can convey to someone you love them either by words or sex?

How do you think they expressed their love on a quiet hilltop alone "without words?"

boundedseven · Jan 31, 2012

jaxword said:
Arguably, the PC version is a retranslation because it fixes a lot of the mistakes.

The 3d part looked good but the FMVs looked like crap

greyshark · Jan 31, 2012

jaxword said:
How do you think they expressed their love on a quiet hilltop alone "without words?"

For me I viewed their relationship at that moment as a platonic one, so their expressing their love for each other was in a platonic (or familial I suppose) sense.

Dreamer RD · Jan 31, 2012

jaxword said:
That's exactly what it was, and the entire POINT of Cloud's character. I'm a little surprised you missed that, to be honest. Cloud's mind, which was already plagued by self-esteem issues and depression, completely snapped under Hojo's experiments and he faked being a hero with the best template he had: Zack.

Also remember that Jenova cells cause mimicry, so that ALSO added to Cloud's imprinting of Zack.

I see. Thanks for clearing things.

Dice · Jan 31, 2012

greyshark said:
For me I viewed their relationship at that moment as a platonic one, so their expressing their love for each other was in a platonic (or familial I suppose) sense.

You have got to be kidding me. FF7 has more sexual innuendos than your average Bond film. It's so casual about it. The fact that everyone wants to get with Tifa is a theme and Cloud's aloofness is a joke. That post-psychotherapy moment was when he finally got his head in the game.

jaxword · Jan 31, 2012

greyshark said:
For me I viewed their relationship at that moment as a platonic one, so their expressing their love for each other was in a platonic (or familial I suppose) sense.

Yes, but the creators have said they are an official couple. So it's not platonic or familial.

Look, there's nothing wrong with having a personal viewpoint or interpretation. But when the audience starts to deliberately disagree with the actual artist, that's when it gets a little petulant. That's like those people that argue Emperor Palpatine was actually a good guy from a certain point of view.

greyshark · Jan 31, 2012

Dice said:
You have got to be kidding me. FF7 has more sexual innuendos than your average Bond film. It's so casual about it. The fact that everyone wants to get with Tifa is a theme and Cloud's aloofness is a joke. That post-psychotherapy moment was when he finally got his head in the game.

Everyone wants to get with Tifa?

Dice · Jan 31, 2012

Nearly every male character associated with Tifa makes an allusive comment, as well as expressing jealousy of Cloud because they see what he doesn't recognize.

Lindbergh · Jan 31, 2012

I remember looking at an FFVII preview in EGM^2 when I was like 9. I was already into the SNES titles and I thought the then-modern look seemed weird especially with "the dude with the giant butcher knife". Got to playing it when I was 12 and got hooked.

I don't think a remake would do it justice. 'Believe part of the charm of the original is how it captures a very 90s feel especially with Midgar (grim picture of emerging technologies). The FMVs may look outdated now but they had high value whenever the game transitioned into them because of their occasional presence.

jaxword · Jan 31, 2012

greyshark said:
Everyone wants to get with Tifa?

Uh, yes? That's said multiple times in game. For example, Johnny turns up repeatedly throughout the game, lamenting how she only has eyes for Cloud.

greyshark · Jan 31, 2012

jaxword said:
Yes, but the creators have said they are an official couple. So it's not platonic or familial.

Look, there's nothing wrong with having a personal viewpoint or interpretation. But when the audience starts to deliberately disagree with the actual artist, that's when it gets a little petulant. That's like those people that argue Emperor Palpatine was actually a good guy from a certain point of view.

I will agree that they are shown as a couple after the game - but I still don't see anything 'from the artist' that shows them as a couple in the game. The 20th anniversary ultimania says nothing that the dialogue of the game didn't say. The 10th anniversary interview was deliberately vague.

And if it is what they intended, how can you make one of the most emotionally powerful moments in the game THAT subtle?

Unknown One · Jan 31, 2012

Perhaps when he regained his real self, he also regained his feelings for her? Everything the old Cloud did was for her. If it wasn't for Tifa there wouldn't be a FF7 since his feelings for her made him join the military to prove himself. There was also a change in personality when he regained himself. His motion sickness came back, he was much more encouraging, and I don't think he was cocky anymore.

BocoDragon · Jan 31, 2012

greyshark said:
I will agree that they are shown as a couple after the game - but I still don't see anything 'from the artist' that shows them as a couple in the game. The 20th anniversary ultimania says nothing that the dialogue of the game didn't say. The 10th anniversary interview was deliberately vague.

And if it is what they intended, how can you make one of the most emotionally powerful moments in the game THAT subtle?

In 1997, implying that 2 characters might have had sex in a mainstream console game was steamy hot material.

greyshark · Jan 31, 2012

jaxword said:
Uh, yes? That's said multiple times in game. For example, Johnny turns up repeatedly throughout the game, lamenting how she only has eyes for Cloud.

How did I miss/forget this? I remember Johnny interacting with Aeris in front of Honeybee Inn, and the other times we run into him I don't remember him saying anything about Tifa. Who else goes after her?

EDIT: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Johnny That link makes it appear that the Johnny jealousy arc was removed material. I'll admit to never have fully read the translated Ultimanias, are these supposed to be considered canon too?

jaxword · Jan 31, 2012

greyshark said:
I will agree that they are shown as a couple after the game - but I still don't see anything 'from the artist' that shows them as a couple in the game. The 20th anniversary ultimania says nothing that the dialogue of the game didn't say. The 10th anniversary interview was deliberately vague.

And if it is what they intended, how can you make one of the most emotionally powerful moments in the game THAT subtle?

They made many things very subtle.

-Zack's death and Cloud's subsequent breakdown, one of the most important scenes in the entire compilation, isn't even normally seen.

-Sephiroth is already dead for the entire game, and those you've been fighting are just Jenova-clones.

-President Shinra has a thing for hookers and role-playing, which heavily plays into CC, which ALSO has subtle hints of its own.

-The opening of the game is not just random noise on a starfield, it's Aerith listening to the planet via the leaky mako pipe, a direct feed to the lifestream.

-AND they didn't make it subtle. The dialogue changes depending on the "love points".

There's many things that you'd only get upon a replay with full knowledge, and the shoddy translation also meant no one understood these things ANYWAYS until the internet explained it.

luka · Jan 31, 2012

jaxword said:
Uh, yes? That's said multiple times in game. For example, Johnny turns up repeatedly throughout the game, lamenting how she only has eyes for Cloud.

don't forget Rude

Dice · Jan 31, 2012

BocoDragon said:
In 1997, implying that 2 characters might have had sex in a mainstream console game was steamy hot material.

It also had the weight of many side-conversations and comments, a deeply expressed rivalry between Tifa and Aerith, and a "oh hey, we're all grown up now" heart-to-heart. It's not subtle at all when it's what everyone is expecting.

Sir Alemeth · Jan 31, 2012

greyshark · Jan 31, 2012

jaxword said:
They made many things very subtle.

-Zack's death and Cloud's subsequent breakdown, one of the most important scenes in the entire compilation, isn't even normally seen.

But there is a scene that clearly and explicitly shows what happens if you look for it.

jaxword said:
-Sephiroth is already dead for the entire game, and those you've been fighting are just Jenova-clones.

They clearly show this too in the scene where Cloud kills Sephiroth.

jaxword said:
-President Shinra has a thing for hookers and role-playing, which heavily plays into CC, which ALSO has subtle hints of its own.

Full disclosure: I've never played CC - my only exposure to FF7 is the original game (which I've played through about 10 times) and Advent Children (which I haven't seen since it first came out in 2005).

jaxword said:
-The opening of the game is not just random noise on a starfield, it's Aerith listening to the planet via the leaky mako pipe, a direct feed to the lifestream.

-AND they didn't make it subtle. The dialogue changes depending on the "love points".

I'd call it subtle considering there has been a lot of debate about it over the years and there's plenty of other ways they could have written it to make it more obvious.

BocoDragon · Jan 31, 2012

Sir Alemeth said:

That's insulting to FFVIII, IX and XII. X wasn't a bad game either.

hateradio · Jan 31, 2012

Sir Alemeth said:

Wha? Square plateaued with FF6/7/8/9 and then decreased a bit with X. XIII was a noticeable decrease, however.

Dice · Jan 31, 2012

Hmmm.. 8 wasn't that good. It's about right for 9 since it was good but the story and balance lacked a bit. 10 is extremely overrated, but okay, so I can see that. And it's also about right for 12, which had cool style and absolutely nothing else.

Overall, accurate chart.

SOLDIER · Jan 31, 2012

Even though it honestly is obvious enough, even without Square's confirmation, it's important for me that the sex scene really did happened.

Not because "woo yeah, Cloud totally got some of that" or that it's proof that they are "the official couple", but because it's a really well-done moment that serves as closure for the emotional roller-coaster that made up most of the game up to that point.

There's a certain sadness to this scene, the notion that these two characters who very clearly have feelings for one another can't find the words or courage to express how they feel. But with the possibility of death looming over them mere hours from now, they decide, at the very least, they can comfort each other physically for just this one night. It's a brief moment of happiness and understanding, and the way it's handled is much more mature and subtle than the straight-up kissing scenes between Cecil and Rosa or Tidus and Yuna (though I highly enjoyed those moments as well).

With that kind of attention given to the character, I'll never accept peoples' insistence that her role in the game is to be a sex object and nothing more.

anaron · Jan 31, 2012

lolololol I can't believe this thread is being stunk up with the love triangle debate. Nothing emulates that 11 year old kid outlook better.

Zeal · Jan 31, 2012

Sir Alemeth said:

Fuck this crap, FF8, 11 and 12 were all awesome.

Blablurn · Jan 31, 2012

and another hour spent in the world of ff7. off to the bombing of the second reactor!

go avaaalaaaaanche!!!

BocoDragon · Jan 31, 2012

Blablurn said:
and another hour spent in the world of ff7. off to the bombing of the second reactor!

go avaaalaaaaanche!!!

^ Post flagged by Homeland Security for terrorist sympathies.

greyshark · Jan 31, 2012

SOLDIER said:
Even though it honestly is obvious enough, even without Square's confirmation, it's important for me that the sex scene really did happened.

Not because "woo yeah, Cloud totally got some of that" or that it's proof that they are "the official couple", but because it's a really well-done moment that serves as closure for the emotional roller-coaster that made up most of the game up to that point.

There's a certain sadness to this scene, the notion that these two characters who very clearly have feelings for one another can't find the words or courage to express how they feel. But with the possibility of death looming over them mere hours from now, they decide, at the very least, they can comfort each other physically for just this one night. It's a brief moment of happiness and understanding, and the way it's handled is much more mature and subtle than the straight-up kissing scenes between Cecil and Rosa or Tidus and Yuna (though I highly enjoyed those moments as well).

With that kind of attention given to the character, I'll never accept peoples' insistence that her role in the game is to be a sex object and nothing more.

I like this post.

jaxword · Jan 31, 2012

greyshark said:
I'd call it subtle considering there has been a lot of debate about it over the years and there's plenty of other ways they could have written it to make it more obvious.

Thinking you would write it differently than the author does not make your point of view correct, you realize. Come on, man, you can't even come up with a credible alternate explanation of what "expressing your love without words" (and then waking up together) means.

You are letting your own memories imprint over what the creators said. I mean, you said above you've forgotten how many guys hit on Tifa:

greyshark said:
How did I miss/forget this? I remember Johnny interacting with Aeris in front of Honeybee Inn, and the other times we run into him I don't remember him saying anything about Tifa. Who else goes after her?

Your memories, plus the poor translation, are confusing you.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Johnny

Johnny LEAVES Midgar because Tifa only wants Cloud. Rude wants Tifa. All the boys in Nibelheim want Tifa.

Shadow780 · Jan 31, 2012

12 is shit, people who liked 12 are apple hipsters of the FF fanbase.

BocoDragon · Jan 31, 2012

Shadow780 said:
12 is shit, people who liked 12 are apple hipsters of the FF fanbase.

Oh you.

PetriP-TNT · Jan 31, 2012

Does anyone else always use KICKIN' RAD background colors on the menus? I swear I have spent an hour making the colors as cool as possible.

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