ThirtyDegrees
Neo Member
Talking about her body, saying "take off your shirt", "we're going to buy you a skirt so guys can look at your body" after she tells him he's being creepy is textbook harassment.
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Cross The Line - Sexual Assault... ok, maybe just Sexual Harassment!
- Thread starter The Faceless Master
- Start date
Talking about her body, saying "take off your shirt", "we're going to buy you a skirt so guys can look at your body" after she tells him he's being creepy is textbook harassment.
Does your view of the show include it used as a media spotlight for Aris to defend sexism and racism in the fighting game community? Please say no.
wolfmat
Confirmed Asshole
That's okay.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
he's mad
wolfmat
Confirmed Asshole
Haha <3
PsychoSoldier
Banned
Nice. So we're back here? Maybe she was okay with it?
I do find it strange that in one post we hear about a Capcom representative purportedly being there to make sure nobody swears, and I'm watching a stream with someone saying 'dude this guy is so gay' over another speaker he disagrees with, and creeping women at the behest of chatters.
Sure, but since that part is unclear, I don't really believe that it was ongoing harassment for 5 days. I don't doubt she didn't feel it was a safe environment after day 2, but from what I've heard Aris was talked to on day 2 and may have been forced to behave. I don't believe the nonsense we saw on day one happened during the subsequent days, even off-camera.
But this is all my conjecture/gut-feeling, so it's possible I'm completely wrong. Maybe he didn't stop at all, but I picture Aris as more of an inappropriate idiot than a monster.
No, I asked you this because on first glance, it seemed like you were mad at me. But I couldn't think of a reason why you would be, since you had bolded the portion where I was talking about the stream monsters. You know, the people who we've already defined as horrible, vile lowlifes. If you've been reading the thread, you'd know that this is what it is to these people - a source of entertainment. They will troll whoever is on stream, then move to the next person when they're bored.
To think the bolded portion represented my thoughts would mean you weren't reading the thread or the rest of my posts. Not understanding something and getting mad at it would make you an idiot. I don't think you're an idiot, are you?
Ragingnight
Member
regardless that she was "ok" or not does not make the action any better or worse. Its still not right. But I can't say I feel hugely sympathetic for her after some of her actions. What Aris did was inappropriate, there is no question about it. Despite Aris being a troll in almost every way.
The stream monsters might've been encouraging him, but he was the one actually asking the questions. He's not obliged by law to do whatever stream chat says.
PsychoSoldier
Banned
This is likely true---he was told to behave and he probably behaved for the most part. He then proceeded to reopen that proverbial wound by defending sexual harassment in earshot of someone who he sexually harassed.
And, though it isn't mentioned in the article, if you listen to the part after his sexual harassment rant, she pretty clearly says "You don't know where the line is" before she gets (temporarily) hushed.
People here are claiming that the sexist FGC members are the minority, but they seem to be a damn vocal minority. Tournament organizers should simply crack down on this shit. If grown men want to act like children, treat them like children.
(If children even act that immature.)
Does this Aris guy make a living off being a misogynistic video-game playing creep?
(If children even act that immature.)
Does this Aris guy make a living off being a misogynistic video-game playing creep?
wolfmat
Confirmed Asshole
I wasn't mad at you. I just wanted to harp on my earlier statement that I think one should address these things as they happen as a producer, regardless of how it goes down, not let the tape roll and make excuses after the fact.
Looking at the sum of my actions over all these years, I think I can say with confidence that I'm actually pretty stupid. What can you do.
Telosfortelos
Advocate for the People
He also told her he'd make her wear the horse head if she didn't wear the skirt of if she wore baggy sweat pants. He wasn't literally serious, of course, but the jest was a means of control. This was day 2, and it's also the point where I turned off the stream. I was more upset with the lack of outrage or care about sexual harassment than anything else. The justification I've seen about her laughing along with it is also disturbing. It shows no empathy or thoughtfulness about how hard it would be to be put in that sort of situation where you can't escape and have someone who's presumably an authority figure orchestrating the sexual harassment.
Oh, yeah, day 5 was unacceptable. I just mean that due to a lack of information (and probably action) from the producers/people involved, Ben Kuchera came to a conclusion that is probably erroneous, that she was being harassed straight for 5 days. That's probably the worst possible message you could put across, given the circumstances.
If they had said 'On day two we had a stern conversation with Aris that his behavior was unaccceptable and he apologized to Miranda', then maybe Kuchera wouldn't have come to that conclusion (though it would probably raise other questions).
Ragingnight
Member
This is true as well. But you have to understand it is not only Aris' fault. Yes he is largely at fault but at the same time the stream chat/monsters were also at fault for promoting it.
PsychoSoldier
Banned
So if she's a less than amazing person, she deserves less sympathy?
I'm trying to think of what terrible thing she's done that means she should get less sympathy for getting harassed :/
Sure, but stream monsters are mostly-anonymous people on the internet. You know they're stupid. You certainly don't take their advice.
Eight Diagram Bat Fighter
Banned
Of course not. Why would Capcom want any of that?
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
I think he may be referring to the point where she apparently threw a match and caused another contestant to lose out on a chance at the $25,000.
You lost me again, man. First asking me to pick my battles and then this.
If you've got a problem with the producers, take it up with bluerei.
Capcom's strategy's been to keep mum about the situation and let the controversy bring in the viewers, then wait for the show to end before making any type of official response. We'll get an official statement in a couple of days.
Ragingnight
Member
When did I ever say she had to be an amazing person to get sympathy? All she had to do was straight up be against it, report it to capcom and if capcom didn't stop it then report it to the authorities.
When she had people defend her (starslayer) and she literally shit-talked all over starslayer then a little bit later after the sexual harassment talked about Korean penises it comes to the point of where I'm like "really?"
Also that as well.
DryEyeRelief
Member
It's become bigger than a simple "NeoGAF is being too sensitive" shrug off Bluerei. Unless you guys are fine with the scene being painted this way.
Zlatko, just wanted to say it's really cool of you to reevaluate and back off of what seemed a lot like victim blaming there. Without the context, I can see why you might've been confused by her not leaving and thought it was just hanging a teammate out to dry instead of what appears to have just been a fucked up situation overall. After what you said about respecting people who tough things out, it's genuinely cool to see you basically doing just that by being so up front and reconsidering once you have more info.
But but but she expressed that she's a woman with a sexuality so that's precisely the same thing as him talking about her body, right, and therefor she was participating. She condones all that shit since she's a heterosexual woman who dared to discuss a penis in public. What a slut.
This thread is literally going in circles.
Capital_Five
Member
They are in fact a minority. Think about the stream chat for instance. Thousands of people watching Cross Assault everyday yet the chat was probably only in the hundreds. Vocal, yes quite, in fact that's why the chat is always garbage. People with respect for others close it out.
Raonak
Banned
They capcom.
Neato_Jinkins
Banned
another a key thing that some people seem to be missing: more often than not, dudes willing to speak to women this way aren't going to listen to what a woman has to say in return. the lack of respect isn't going to fucking vanish just because a woman tells him to piss off.
the best thing that can happen in these scenarios is for other men to step up and shame the guy. too bad that didn't happen to the extent that it needed to.
the best thing that can happen in these scenarios is for other men to step up and shame the guy. too bad that didn't happen to the extent that it needed to.
PsychoSoldier
Banned
yeah, a lot of the additional details only open up more questions.
So, now we know that the producers were aware of the behavior and, to put it bluntly, made him sit in a corner and asked him to play nice.
Well I'm just saying that it could have been handled better. If you want to show unedited and unmoderated expressions from the participants, but lack the budget to also cover behind the scenes stuff where they apparently make amends for their actions, then it will end up being a one sided presentation which creates the opportunity for things to blow up in the public's eye.
It's unfortunate, but it has happened.
What I find odd are the arguments that she was "ok with it" and "played along" because she was laughing while being harassed on a live stream.
People cope with negative attention in different ways. Some people try to play it off like it doesn't impact them and some people resort to self-deprecating humor to try and deflect the sting of the comments.
I watched the video in the OP's link and she visibly became more and more distant as the attention did not let up. I don't think some lame ass "she was totally into it" rationalization is going to cut it.
People cope with negative attention in different ways. Some people try to play it off like it doesn't impact them and some people resort to self-deprecating humor to try and deflect the sting of the comments.
I watched the video in the OP's link and she visibly became more and more distant as the attention did not let up. I don't think some lame ass "she was totally into it" rationalization is going to cut it.
I too see no difference between them. Seems like a missed opportunity for Capcom fighting games by refusing MLG's offers. Though maybe MLG should now be glad people like Aris won't be coming to any MLG events.
We don't actually know. It's been implied heavily, though. I asked for details and was told we don't really need to know. As far as things we actually know, they may have done nothing as well, though I personally don't think this is the case.
Its a long, twisted, and somewhat funny tale. Best asked in one of the fighting game threads.
He makes a living off this:
http://www.avoidingthepuddle.com/
wolfmat
Confirmed Asshole
I didn't ask you to pick any battles. I didn't really talk to you.
If I have to dissect it to clarify: I took the bolded statement as if it was the motivator for the producers to not act, even though it might have not been. I then expressed that if that actually was so, I do not approve because it would have been a great opportunity to say "this is where we take a stand as ethical beings". Then, I added that I'm enraged.
I'm horrible at this, mind you.
I'm not going to take it up with bluerei. I can't really help him out. I imagine he has enough balls to juggle right now anyway. And if I have any say, then I'd rather defer to my posts in this thread.
Not ideal in my opinion.
Ragingnight
Member
he also works at super arcade I believe
PsychoSoldier
Banned
Where are you getting that she's not against what happened to her? I think her mentioning that the harassment was part of what caused her to forfeit her match says that pretty clearly.
Maybe shit-talking starslay3r wasn't the best move, but clearly there's some history there. And the korean penises thing was in response to a question by a stream viewer about her boyfriend's penis. Who knows why she thought it was a good idea to respond?
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Someone please explain why "Aris was just reading questions and comments off the stream" keeps coming up as a mitigating factor. I literally have no idea why this would have anything to do with anything. Are they holding his family for ransom or something?
He wasn't harassing her to satiate some sort of need. He was doing it because he thought it would entertain the viewers, and didn't see it as harassment because of the environment he plays in or the kind of people he hangs around with. He didn't know Super_Yan personally before this show, and he shouldn't have assumed she would be okay with it.
Ragingnight
Member
When did I ever say she was not against it? Are you just assuming things? All I have said is that I don't feel hugely sympathetic towards her.
Her forfeiting her match because of the harassment was poorly done. She basically made a decision on her teammate behalf that he wasn't going to have the CHANCE to get back in the competition despite trying so hard to get better.
You even admit that her actions weren't the smartest of choices. All of this is reasons for ME to not feel hugely sympathetic. Of course nobody should be sexually harassed, and when it happens it should be handle.
Raonak
Banned
So ignorant sexism based around the desires of a community instead of malicious personalised sexism, better or worse
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
I hope he now sees that this elementary school logic is never a good excuse.
I also hope that no one here buys into this weaksauce excuse.
Could very well be. Not saying it isn't. Just pointing out why the stream chat is important in this case.
Ragingnight
Member
The point is that its not ALL of his fault. A large portion is, but there are other factors that play a large role as well.
edit
That is why it is important to know the WHOLE situation rather than focus on a particular event and ignore the rest.
Every time I read a comment that tries to make the argument of "she went along with it so this kind of treatment is okay" my life is tilted. How can you possibly say this? If someone is getting bullied and they try to laugh it off it's okay? Shit, kids in high school even defend their bullies sometimes to try and fit in. You have got to be kidding me. She says it wasn't okay, so it's not okay.
GB article is really well written
GB article is really well written
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