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I doubt he will answer...
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Cross The Line - Sexual Assault... ok, maybe just Sexual Harassment!
- Thread starter The Faceless Master
- Start date
what does this even mean?
you're basically saying "Hey, record everything I saw for a few days, ill also sound like a mentally handicapped man-baby too!"
Her body language completely changes. There's a difference between 'laughing and playing it up' and being so uncomfortable that you can't react in a given environment.
Maybe harsh, but based on other instances I've seen involving Aris, he appears to enjoy being a pervy creep around women. Karma is a bitch though, he'll get his I'm sure.
freenudemacusers
Member
what did he (Aris) do at evo last year? I don't remember large portions of my time there 
What does that have to do with him being brown and having a beard though? You called him a terrorist. A TERRORIST.
ugh.
Ken Masters
Banned
nothing
As a brown bearded person i feel offended and i demand articles on Penny Arcade and Destructoid.
He fell in love with Kayo Police. He did some tastless remarks i guess...what did he (Aris) do at evo last year? I don't remember large portions of my time there
If you were keeping up, you would know none of the FGC members are condoning it. Its about knowing the whole situation. People in this thread who aren't members of the community have already picked up torches and pitchforks, and its either 'you completely hate Aris and admit the FGC is a bunch of manbabies' or you get lynched. Any attempt to bring up information not covered in the articles is met with statements like 'Sure. Blame the victim.'
Even in the other thread, where most of us have known these people for a while, we were told not to jump to conclusions by long standing representatives of the community like Markman and Arturo Sanchez (both amazing dudes and Gaffers). Markman and the Fingercramp guys has even contacted Patrick Klepek and Patrick has supposedly agreed to amend the article based on inputs from these guys.
Then there are the guys who have worked on the show like Blurei (another Gaffer) who insist that there are a lot of things that happened behind the scenes that weren't shown on stream. These things include Aris apologizing, and Capcom supposedly dealing with the situation.
Also, there are no archives for the stream chat. The stream chat is important is because a lot of Aris' behavior was to entertain the stream chat. The stream chat is a vocal minority, but its easy to read the chat and think that the views of the stream monsters represent the views of everyone who's watching the stream. Aris is a douche, yes. He's a dick. But he isn't as big as a creep as the articles make him out to be.
Yet, I just know someone's going to quote that last line I just typed and going to say 'That's no defense, douchebag.'. People are angry. People want heads to roll. People don't want to understand the whole situation before dealing out the punishment.
So many stereotypes in 1 comment.
Actually I said he looks like a fat terrorist, which is a fact.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
freenudemacusers
Member
oh that? I remember hearing about that... did he creep on her (thighs and bra size, etc) or just flirt?
PsychoSoldier
Banned
I'm not sure Arturo is exactly a neutral party on all this (Especially when it comes to the Jared/Haunts/Aris convo) so forgive me if when he says something I'm going to take it with a grain of salt.
Limited information or not, I'm not sure anything that could come out that would make the main point of this whole thing untrue: Aris did and said some fucked up shit, and Capcom left him on the show.
Maybe once everything comes out we can decide that she is clearly 14.8% responsible for the creepy shit Aris did so it's not quite so bad. I don't doubt that people within the community are currently constructing ways of trying to pin all this on her as we speak.
spindashing
Banned
Okay, you're really pushing it here.
what did he (Aris) do at evo last year? I don't remember large portions of my time there
Hit on kayo police
Arguing whether Miranda was okay with what Aris was doing on the stream is not really the point either. Even if she was completely okay with it because she wanted to fit in and be "one of the guys" or whatever, it still speaks poorly to the sort of environment that Capcom is streaming to a public audience in showcasing what the fighting community is like. Someone watching the stream and who is considering going to the next major tournament might change their minds if they think that is normal and acceptable behavior to people who attend such events.
Aris is a terrible role model for anything, and I think Capcom really dropped the ball on this entire thing. If the FGC wants to find a real villain, I would say they should also look at how Capcom has run this entire reality show so far. Not exactly the most professional thing.
Aris is a terrible role model for anything, and I think Capcom really dropped the ball on this entire thing. If the FGC wants to find a real villain, I would say they should also look at how Capcom has run this entire reality show so far. Not exactly the most professional thing.
I wasn't aware terrorist had a specific look.
faceless007
Member
Unless you're presenting this as some sort of justification for what happened--in which case, I'll have some choice words--I don't see how this is relevant in the context of this thread at all.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
I've listened to Aris on random streams.
He really has no business being representative of anything.
He really has no business being representative of anything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77SfC-gmK9o
I don't remember anything from it, but there's the youtube video.
spindashing
Banned
It has to do with more of knowing the person who is on the receiving end of this misogyny.
This is a reality tv show going on with various events going on to help create an image for these people for us to go off of.
I brought it up, because the crap thrown at her by Aris(days before this elimination went down) should not have resulted in her being that disrespectful to the show, the people putting it together, where the $ came from, the people participating, and those who would have killed for her spot.
Sherry is on the show too. Has she gotten ton of sexual harassment from stream monsters there? Yes. Did she toss away $25K opportunity? No.
I have more respect for people who put their chin up, and stick through it.
Capcom was talking to her this whole time and trying to make ammends, Aris apologized(if more happened after that it's things we don't know about), and yet through all of this she is STILL THERE!
If it's bugging her so badly, and Aris was that over the line to her(which I agree he crossed the line for sure), then why didn't she go home?
I'm stepping out now from the thread. I tend to get rambly in replies when topics are this big and I have a lot of thoughts about it in my head.
Riposte
Member
Yeah.
I believe the best solution for everyone would be if someone like Patrick (who isn't douchey like Ben Kuchera) did a better article with more contributors. Also people not like Jared and more like Sabin, Max, or UltraDavid. Maybe actually paint a correct picture this time.
Aris could probably explain himself better since he basically took a few commonly understood sentiments in the community and dipped it with terms like "sexual harassment" and etc. He is not a man of tact or grace lol, in fact he is pretty extraordinary on how much he "does not give a fuck" which is why he is so entertaining to many people (he's basically a stand-up comedian). The end result wouldn't please a lot of people (he's probably been demonized beyond repair, deservedly so depending on your point of view), but it would at least be better then what these headlines imply. The real purpose of it wouldn't be so much to defend Aris, but explain the FGC better.
Sexual harassment isn't imperative to his vision of the FGC, but he is pretty clear that he doesn't want political correctness to be a driving force. That means you will probably get some form of sexism just like you might get some form of sexism when you hang out with your friends ("Wow look at that girl's ass"), at least with a bunch of young men anyway... which is most of the FGC. He doesn't want taboos (like saying rape casually, which really isn't a good example considering how common and non-sexual in use that is) nor does he want players to forget they are there to beat each other (which is why everyone hates you when you first walk into an arcade, you earn their respect by being skilled). At the end of the day he is basically saying "Competition first, kindness second" and "fuck political correctness, keep it raw", both of which might piss you off anyway. They are two popular concepts which you might see defended on NeoGAF sans "sexual harassment". Not going to say it doesn't lead to a male-centric restrictive environment in their rawest application (which isn't honestly the case, not by a long shot, at least today) and it doesn't help there are no top female players since top players command all of the respect (though stream monsters give no respect). At the same time I relate more to the side that says "lol #esports" and looks at the FGC as a bit of a marvel compared to what you see in "professional" sports.
Also I don't like that Starcraft players get treated like saints lol. Yeah, right.
wolfmat
Confirmed Asshole
Also, I want to point out that shit like this, the general behavior on XBL voice chat and other personal attacks on all kinds of social feeds need to be addressed by the companies involved, and this is a great opportunity to do so.
There are literally millions of gamers who are misrepresented by this, and they're not being treated right by the companies they throw money at. If this continues, then eventually, social feeds, online streams, voice chat and so forth will be a detriment. I mean, already, only the inflammatory kiddies are using voice chat on public games.
I feel like one of my main concerns regarding gaming isn't addressed at all: Dealing with people who are misrepresenting the culture I've been a part of for 25 years. This has been one of the key reasons why I haven't touched online gaming in the last 10 years (apart from CS).
It can't go on like this. Do something, for christ's sake. You're making money with assholes, where is your dignity?
There are literally millions of gamers who are misrepresented by this, and they're not being treated right by the companies they throw money at. If this continues, then eventually, social feeds, online streams, voice chat and so forth will be a detriment. I mean, already, only the inflammatory kiddies are using voice chat on public games.
I feel like one of my main concerns regarding gaming isn't addressed at all: Dealing with people who are misrepresenting the culture I've been a part of for 25 years. This has been one of the key reasons why I haven't touched online gaming in the last 10 years (apart from CS).
It can't go on like this. Do something, for christ's sake. You're making money with assholes, where is your dignity?
spindashing
Banned
Wow.
And these guys thought my comments make the FGC feel like an unwelcoming place. You make Amuhrica feel like an unwelcoming place, assuming that's where you're from.
YES! Many of my gripes as well.
Wow, this thread...just because some people can take abuse doesn't mean everybody else should have to. Some really dumb things being said in this thread. That is the problem here. Aris thinks it's okay, so he says it. Even though it isn't. But he thinks it is, and that's enough for him to justify the shit that comes from his mouth.
PsychoSoldier
Banned
Yeah, Sherry did fine, but she also didn't have her coach responding to stream monster requests or making her uncomfortable with his behavior.
It would have been way cooler for her to actually play rather than bowing out, but no one liked her odds, and her whole demeanor just oozed mental and physical exhaustion.
And pretty sure she didn't leave because she was under contract. Some of her deleted tweets said just that.
It would have been way cooler for her to actually play rather than bowing out, but no one liked her odds, and her whole demeanor just oozed mental and physical exhaustion.
And pretty sure she didn't leave because she was under contract. Some of her deleted tweets said just that.
wut? We're mainly talking about the American FGC here in the first place.
What the fuck is this shit?
She explicitly says in one of her tweets quoted in the articles that she is required by her contract to stay for a certain number of days. If she is obligated to stay in an environment in which she is uncomfortable how is it worthy of more respectful to just paste on a smile and play along? That is seriously mind boggling logic, dude.
She said she had to stay on the show for a certain number of days because of the contract. And who are you to decide how much she should have to stick through when there's so much pressure just with the show while at the same time she's having her own team leader harassing her?
Also was Sherry harassed by Aris? I doubt that it's the steam monsters that made her want to leave.
What is the FGC doing about the main, actual problem, of sexual harassment in the community.
Cause it seems that everyone in it is more worried about correcting that people were yelling "bitch" at phoenix on the giant bomb article. Tons of energy devoted to the image, none devoted to the cause.
Yea, that's definitely a more accurate picture of the community, lol
rukland
Member
After stepping away from this thread for a bit to read around many places including the mega thread. The above really is important here, yeah Aris was out of line but (and I am ready for the hate) factoring in the stream chat, which I know we don't have, it sheds a lot of lite onto the whole issue.
While I did not see this as it happened I have watched plenty of streams in the past and still do when I find time. I know what chat is like and I know at times they can goad just about anyone into reacting in a way that is plain dumb.
Is what Aris did wrong? Sure 100% and it should really not happen. But the fact is it did and it was not like he just started doing it on a whim. The best of us can sometimes get caught up in things and trust me from seeing stream chat in action what went down is pretty mild compared to what could have.
So sure we can look at Aris as one person and say his actions were not appropriate but jumping to the conclusion that his actions represent the whole FGC is not a leap anyone should take.
I respectfully apologize if any of my earlier posts where lacking this same thought. It was a knee jerk reaction before doing my research.
In one post, you've completely undermined FGC-GAF's unanimous stance on the matter. She was on contract to stay. Read?
I agree, they could have been far more professional, but I guess that would make it less raw.
https://twitter.com/#!/MardenBlake/status/174373077000536065
I think capcom could have made it professional while still appealing to the fighting game community. For example EVO staff conducts itself in a very technical matter, whereas regular weekly streams from the likes of the big two are more color commentary.
LOL
Sorry, I didn't have knowledge of deleted tweets. Which again, echos why I was saying I didn't want to comment on this topic at all, because bits and pieces of the puzzle are missing. These pieces not missing obviously, but are deleted to be available for all curious.
And yes, Da fuck is this shit is that I have more respect for females like BurnYourBra and Sherry for being in the community and taking the bull shit in a stride. Females aren't the only one getting the same kind of dumb treatment either. Guys like Marn get it too. Does it make it right? No of course not, but I'm not going to preach change, because I don't feel its my place to do so. If someone was sexually harassing ME at an event I won to get into for $25,000, then I would first try to squash it with that person and say if you keep this shit up, then I'm talking to Capcom and getting you booted off because this is unacceptable.
Again, what he did to her 100% not cool. Her handling of the situation though? Not the best.
faceless007
Member
Again, unless you're posting this to try to justify the harassment, it doesn't seem relevant. Maybe she's immature and thin-skinned, maybe she really did screw over a teammate, I don't know, but that doesn't mean she deserved it.
And I'll note your simultaneously arguing that it would be more worthy of respect if "put her chin up and stuck through it", and that she isn't really bothered by it because she didn't leave early. So which is it, should she leave early or shouldn't she? (Not that it matters she's bound by contract of course.)
Does anyone know why Capcom is trying to run a "reality show" without representing the reality then? If they really want to go with a reality show format, those sort of things seem like what you are expected to show to the audience, since it is as much about the interactions between the participants as well as the competition itself. Does Capcom just suck?
The Faceless Master
Member
ok, there are always people attacking entire communities, but where are these people that you speak of in this thread?
gotta save something for the Bluray and DVD Extras!
BronsonLee
Member
MARN DESERVES EVERYTHING HE GETS~!
But in all seriousness, there are some parallels there, but there's a difference between Marn getting trolled (which, while amusing, does suck if it gets too out of hand), to this (which is unacceptable in all social norms).
faceless007
Member
If everyone thought that way, nothing would ever change.
If you don't want to make it your fight, fine, but some of us feel compelled to fight misogyny and sexual harassment because it needs to be stamped out.
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