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Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE

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EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Also, Ken Levine trotted out the 'games are art and the ending shouldn't be messed with' crowd during a conference at the Smithsonian.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10275334/1

And that is totally fine. Mass Effect 3 is BioWare's game, and they are entitled to do whatever the fuck they want with it. Sometimes I feel these arguments are trying to deflect criticism of the ending though. BioWare made a piece of creative work, entertainment, and charged people to experience it. They will now, just as with every creator of entertainment and art, be subject to critique from the people who experience it.

And that critique is that the endings are fucking shit.
 
Looks like this has been missed or I missed it, but Amazon is apparently offering full refunds for ME3.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/Mas...allowed/Amazon-giving-refunds-10085608-1.html

Also, Ken Levine trotted out the 'games are art and the ending shouldn't be messed with' crowd during a conference at the Smithsonian.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10275334/1

It's Art when reviewers will review games as a art and be fucking critical.
Not bride or give reviewers design documents explaining what they can say and what not.

Maybe but as a artist if 90% of your fans/audience thinks the ending sucks then you should reevaluate if art is your thing.
Not everyone can be a money making artist.
 

Dresden

Member
You can't 'stand by your work' when that work operates as a service. It's silly, any game that incorporates DLC to the extent that ME will is never going to be a standalone product. There's no point in letting the ending be, as if that's a stance that requires integrity or backbone.
 
You can't 'stand by your work' when that work operates as a service. It's silly, any game that incorporates DLC to the extent that ME will is never going to be a standalone product. There's no point in letting the ending be, as if that's a stance that requires integrity or backbone.

Im not sure but i heard is when a painter sets his Signature on a cloth it permanent and he isn't allowed to make any changes to it? At least that is what i was told.
With movies,books and Patches now mostly DLC on games you can kink out the little mistakes not sure how you can fix this ending.
 
Yup. Mass Effect 4 being set right at the resurgence of interstellar travel post-Mass Relay destruction would be interesting. Would give the series a reason to go back to exploration based gameplay, could make for some new races that might have moved in from dark space/other galaxies after the Reaper war, and opportunities to see what happened to the galaxy in the span of time it took for Mass Relay-like travel to be "reinvented."

I'm usually opposed to prequels, "interquels", parallel stories, or whatever in general. I'd much rather see the story pushed forward to look back on things that have already happened, even this ridiculous ending.

I think it'd be pretty hard to make a direct sequel with all the choices you could make and the different endings. The only way it would work is if they choose a canon path and ending and disregard everything else.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I think it'd be pretty hard to make a direct sequel with all the choices you could make and the different endings. The only way it would work is if they choose a canon path and ending and disregard everything else.

I was thinking about this, and the funny thing is if they were so desperate to kill their game universe they could have done the "hundred variables 'where are they now' slide show" at the end. Fans would be happier, and they'd set up enough scope of variables to imply that nothing is canon and there won't be a post-ME3 game.

But nope.
 
Anyway, to get back on track with things or maybe a little bit happier, I wanted to post some things that I actually did enjoy that the game because I really did this game up until the feats wife and then Shepard on The Citadel.

I dictated some notes while I was playing the game and you can tell when I was really interested in something or really disinterested in something because there was a decided lack of notes. First off, I was hoping that Ashley would look closer to her original model in the game, and not just like the pictures prior to release. Sadly, this was not the case. I still think she looks horrible and nothing like she used to. Why did they decide to change her hair, and why is her face so different?

Also, I felt like in the beginning of the game on earth some of the animation was strange and bad. In the very beginning Shepard does this turn and points at the Council reinstating her as a specter, and it looks so bad that it appears to be something out of deadly premonition.

I also felt like this is one of the best late title cards in a game. And, I really like the new piano theme that they played during the credits. Overall, I thought the music was fantastic.

As for me overall start of the game, I feel things were very rushed and not fully explained. I also didn't really like the angle presented with the kid, especially since he is the only kid you have ever seen in this universe. However, since I was playing as a female shepherd, the superior shepherd, I felt like there was this added motherly aspect to her and the kids. This is one of the reasons why I think playing as a female shepherd is the best shepherd because there's always just added layer of dimension either with sexism or mothering or any sort of other aspect that get added into this universe. It isn't just that Shepard is the first human Spector, she's also the first female human specter.

I also thought, in conjunction with two, that the lighting and the filmmaking quality, mostly the camera work and editing cuts, are substantially improved. I think the hardest thing going back to playing the first game is this lessened quality in these aspects.

I also like the handling of Ashley in the beginning of the game. I thought it was a nice touch that she was hurt, but I did wonder what it would've been like if it was a male Shepard and Ashley was the female romance option and him seeing her hurt, or if it was Kayden and he was the romance option from the first game. It would've probably added a lot more to that.

I thought the meeting, the first meeting, with the council was very underwhelming. I felt like the scene was too short, but I know nobody really likes the Council, and so maybe they didn't want to waste anytime with them.

I also didn't like the fact that the Normandy was changed once again. I did not like that there're more levels, more load screens, but I did like the fact that the characters moved around this time. It made the ship feel a little more alive.

I also liked the way they approached same sex in this game. I like the fact that the guy in the cargo hold had a husband, and the incidental dialogue in the single and the citadel where the one woman was trying to contact her wife. It made things feel progressive, and it didn't feel that forceful.

I don't remember the first interaction with Miranda that well, but I didn't know if originally that I thought no real good reason was given for not helping her. It seemed obvious that something was going to happen later in the game, but the explanation for not helping her was not explicit.

I think one of my favorite characters from this game, from the series, turned out to be Jack. She has really interesting changes, really realistic changes, and as funny as all get out. She is totally better than anything from the promotional materials suggested in the second game.

In fact, I thought there was a lot more humor in this game than the previous entries. In a way this is very strange considering the general melancholic atmosphere throughout the game.

I might've had audio troubles because a lot of the voices seem off. It took me a while to get used to Rex's voice, and I noticed Mordans being off. I didn't know at the time, but I guess they did change voice actors for mordin.

I also didn't care for how in the start of the game a lot of the missions began the same way. Something happens, it turns out Cerberus is doing something bad, and then defeat Cerberus.

Also, maybe it was because I was playing Shepard in the dress, but you look a lot thinner – as that she's lost a lot of weight. In one respect this is a good idea of showing the strain of war on her body, but it also just seems weird. Am I the only one who noticed this?

It was shortly before the geno phage mission that it really dawned on me that I could not imagine playing this game any other character other than the one I created in one and two. All of these characters, all of my choices, are having an impact dot dot dot even if that means they are little bit forced.

It's also worth saying that morein's death was really touching. He had a very nice arc throughout two and three. Also the use of music during his death, and the shooting out of the green light, is really good. I love that first piece of music from the first game, and inserting it into that moment was wonderful. You see this a couple other times throughout this game, but I will mention those later.

Something about the assault on the citadel did not sit right with me. I wouldn't say that it felt rushed or incomplete, but just very surreal. The attack on the first citadel was nothing like The Citadel you experienced in the game so it felt more natural. But with this one, the fact that you knew these locations and walked through them normally, made it strange. Also, I feel like the paragon and renegade options should have been the same for confronting udina. Either way, he should have a bullet, with the paragon option just wounding him, and the renegade option killing him. In fact, where they're less interrupts in this game compared to two?

Also worth noting at this time, I felt like the side missions were really good. That is, the ones that did not involve just scanning random planets.

I also really like Conrad Verner. He finally does something right, even if he doesn't really take a bullet for you. He thinks he does, you think you does, and even when you realize he was safe the entire time, it still feels right. It's a wonderful handling for such an incidental character. Which also is in stark contrast with Kelly Chambers dying. They just put a bullet in her head? What a horrible way to resolve her character.

Also, it was weird seeing Ashley join the ship so late in the game. I thought that since she was up for so much of it, she would just not factor at all. also, two specters on board the Normandy seems odd.

Jacob looks thinner as well.

I also had a couple of strange glitches while on the citadel. Character would become invisible, and I would be talking to a character, even though I can hear their voices. This happened to liara, and wanted to c-sec officers.

I felt like you see in a lot of twin towers in the background, and I wonder if they should've made explicit allusions to Cerberus being terrorists and maybe bring a current terrorism aspect into the game. However, with the handling of the ending, I do not think that they're writing staff would've been up to making this a good idea.

I did not like the death of Legion. I thought it was very silly, and I really did not understand why the time he had to die in order to help the remaining gas. This also have the music from the first game as well, but since it was Alreay done with Mordin, and much better, it wasn't as impactful. Also, in the very next scene with tali, they play the music again. They should not have played it twice so fast.

Speaking of, I love all the loose ends, and all of the characters, coming together and tying up so nicely. Everything up to th final assault on Cerberus is wonderful. I love Garrus's goodbye, I love tali getting drunk, and I love the handling of Liara's Romance.

For me, I never really liked Cerberus and the illusive man, so everything leading up to those two points is unfulfilling to me. I thought kei lang was a horrible character, and his boss battle was awful. I also do not like the way he died, and the silly renegade prompt to do really nothing.

I also feel like there're supposed to be some major revelations on the Cerberus station involving Shepard and the Lazarus project, but I felt I already knew all the things that they were telling me.

Two last quick things: I really like all of the goodbyes you say while on earth, and I love the whole first section at the end, right up until the white light and Sheppard entering The Citadel. I really think they should've found a way to end it much sooner, or not have the illusive man be the ultimate antagonist. As many have asked, where was Harbinger?

And lastly, where were the cities in this game? There was no Novera, Omega, or anything. There was only The Citadel. I would've liked to seen either old cities, or new cities.

Sorry for the formatting. I dictated these notes into my iPad, and some of the spelling and grammatical errors can be a little confusing, but I think most of it comes across okay.
 

Tookay

Member
Agreed. What's done is done, and what has been seen cannot be unseen. There's no point in retconning this mess. They should stand behind the ending, learn from their mistakes, and not even consider wasting time on any "band-aid" DLC that only a fraction of the audience will see. The "magic" won't even be there if they attempt to backtrack and change the end. It'll just come off as a cheap way to make people happy.

Exactly. Thing is, I'm not happy with what they did in the slightest with the ending; they basically snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. That moment with Anderson and Shepard was truly cathartic. They were this close. Then Bioware blew it by introducing last-minute plot additions that killed that emotional release, leaving us morally and intellectually confused.

But to back away from that decision would bother me a lot more. It would reward Bioware for the wrong reasons, and not even effectively reward us for the right ones either. We lost that moment to have proper closure forever. It passed the moment that brat on the Citatdel spoke. Any fix to the ending will always have the lingering reminder that this wasn't exactly what was intended. It'll always be messy, stained.

And you know what? That's fine. It just means that we have to deal with this game in a more nuanced way. It forces us to move beyond binary "THIS SHIT SUCKS" or "GAME FUCKING ROCKED." Because we have to understand that ME3 as a whole was great, while also accepting the fact that it ended on a sour note. And we'll have to balance that reality always, instead of just buying DLC to magically fix things and make it all better in our heads.
 

Abylim

Member
Just beat the game, chose Synthesis. Will I get a better ending with more readiness? Is there a youtube link to a video with max readiness? I got the trophy for delivering most war assets.
 
Just beat the game, chose Synthesis. Will I get a better ending with more readiness? Is there a youtube link to a video with max readiness? I got the trophy for delivering most war assets.

All of the endings are literally the same, except instead of being green, which was your synthesis, you get a blue or a red glowing effect. Really, you got the ending. That's it.
 

mxgt

Banned
Will I get a better ending with more readiness?

No

HUGE SPOILER: readiness doesn't matter, all the endings are basically the exact same thing with different coloured explosions. The only different EMS makes is a 2 second clip of Shepard breathing after you commit genocide of all synthetic life forms in the destroy ending.
 
I think it'd be pretty hard to make a direct sequel with all the choices you could make and the different endings. The only way it would work is if they choose a canon path and ending and disregard everything else.
Bad writing is how you do it!

-Didn't cure the Genophage? "An alternative to the genophage was discovered a few years later."
-Geth died? "More geth got built" or the lazier "some Geth escaped"
-Quarians died? "There were some rouge ships that weren't part of the fleet, species repopulated from the survivors"
-Green space magic? Everyone has stupid green circuit boards on their skin, no other changes necessary.
-One of the other colored magic? If you killed all synthetics then more get built. If you control the Reapers Shepard just has them fly into the sun.

Bioware has already done shit like this for Mass Effect 3.
-Killed the Rachni queen? Reapers clone one.
-Killed the council? Different people on the council.
 

z0m3le

Banned
I think it'd be pretty hard to make a direct sequel with all the choices you could make and the different endings. The only way it would work is if they choose a canon path and ending and disregard everything else.

They do, Shepard wakes up on earth, in rubble (concert and rebar) in the 100% perfect ending, but only if you choose to destory the reapers Via David Anderson's choice.

I don't see how that is possible if he exploded in the citadel, he was literally on his death bed and, falling miles to earth would certainly mean no waking up. Plus in my game when I took my crew with me, when the Harbringer blasts Shepard, my crew was dead on the ground when I woke, but they stepped off the Normandy, that just isn't possible.

There is a ton of stuff wrong with the ending, Shepard is shot in the shoulder, and he shoots Anderson in stomach, which is where Shepard is bleeding from a moment later, and not his shoulder, I'm convinced that Bioware is playing with us and that they will finally talk about it next month, just think of how well done the rest of the game is, there is nothing else like this, it's literally stellar, up until that ending, my guess is that Bioware can give it the ending they want now, and we will all agree that it was better than Shepard's weird hallucination.
 

Tookay

Member
There is a ton of stuff wrong with the ending, Shepard is shot in the shoulder, and he shoots Anderson in stomach, which is where Shepard is bleeding from a moment later, and not his shoulder, I'm convinced that Bioware is playing with us and that they will finally talk about it next month, just think of how well done the rest of the game is, there is nothing else like this, it's literally stellar, up until that ending, my guess is that Bioware can give it the ending they want now, and we will all agree that it was better than Shepard's weird hallucination.

I'm beginning to think the people in this thread are more indoctrinated than Shepard ever was...
 

Abylim

Member
I just read the googledocs, and holy shit. I wasnt happy with the ending, but this really tears it apart. A lot of it seems intentionally done, though. it has to be, right? /plead
 

Digoman

Member
Also, Ken Levine trotted out the 'games are art and the ending shouldn't be messed with' crowd during a conference at the Smithsonian.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10275334/1

While I get the fear of stiffing creativity, every other "art" form is subject to criticism. Movies have been tweaked (Star Wars, Blade Runner) and TV shows are at constant pressure from audiences and can't afford to "piss people off". That's nothing new.

Publishers and developers were more then happy in making games into a constant changing product, with patches and DLCs, when it suited their needs. Bioware is one of the worst offenders, always adding paid content to the game after it was shipped. It's no surprise the people would take this a sign that other aspects of the game, like the endings, can be changed as well. Bottom line: Games are not viewed as "finished" products anymore, and are still subject to same pressures then any other commercial art form is.

I think it'd be pretty hard to make a direct sequel with all the choices you could make and the different endings. The only way it would work is if they choose a canon path and ending and disregard everything else.

Bioware has stated that they don't intend to make future stories post-ME3, but let's just say I don't actually put a lot of faith on that they say in interviews anymore. Assuming the were going with the "10 000" years later for the post-credits scene, they could probably "merge" the endings if they choose. Maybe everything evolves to a synthesis ending, or the experiment fails and future children didn't have green glowing eyes... who knows.

Personally I think Bioware should have made better endings and then just choose a cannon one for the next trilogy. No one can expect them to keep dealing with our choices forever.
 

Zerokku

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?
I just read the googledocs, and holy shit. I wasnt happy with the ending, but this really tears it apart. A lot of it seems intentionally done, though. it has to be, right? /plead

Been confirmed that the ending we got was intended. Hence the thread title. The last thing on Mac Walter's notes for the ending is "LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE"
 

Sober

Member
Even an Independence Day ending would have been better. You fly into Harbinger, go to its central mainframe and upload a cold that transmits to all other Reapers. Then Shepard lands on Earth and we all honour Randy Quaid's sacrifice.
I just find it hilarious we were all hoping it was going to be anything but uploading a virus and making all the Reapers weak enough for the good guys to prevail.
 

z0m3le

Banned
I just read the googledocs, and holy shit. I wasnt happy with the ending, but this really tears it apart. A lot of it seems intentionally done, though. it has to be, right? /plead

Yeah, that is what led to my conversion, but really how the hell is my dead squad going to step off of the Normandy? ME3 is an amazing game, and really well put together, except for that ending, it's really out of place, I have an eye for it, I watched sesame street.
 
Agreed. What's done is done, and what has been seen cannot be unseen. There's no point in retconning this mess. They should stand behind the ending, learn from their mistakes, and not even consider wasting time on any "band-aid" DLC that only a fraction of the audience will see. The "magic" won't even be there if they attempt to backtrack and change the end. It'll just come off as a cheap way to make people happy.

Yeah, I agree with this. I've already seen the original ending so even if they were to make a special edition cut with the greatest ending in the history of game endings, it's still going to be tainted by the lingering feeling that they only did it to appease the overwhelmingly negative response to the original ending - not because they had an amazing writing staff.
 

z0m3le

Banned
Been confirmed that the ending we got was intended. Hence the thread title. The last thing on Mac Walter's notes for the ending is "LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE"

That's because the ending didn't add up, what do you personally believe Shepard waking up at the end of the game was about? he's obviously not on the citadel, unless you think 20th century earth built the thing with REBAR and CONCERT, the only way to me, that it makes sense is if he never left earth.
 
While I get the fear of stiffing creativity, every other "art" form is subject to criticism. Movies have been tweaked (Star Wars, Blade Runner) and TV shows are at constant pressure from audiences and can't afford to "piss people off". That's nothing new.

Publishers and developers were more then happy in making games into a constant changing product, with patches and DLCs, when it suited their needs. Bioware is one of the worst offenders, always adding paid content to the game after it was shipped. It's no surprise the people would take this a sign that other aspects of the game, like the endings, can be changed as well. Bottom line: Games are not viewed as "finished" products anymore, and are still subject to same pressures then any other commercial art form is.



Bioware has stated that they don't intend to make future stories post-ME3, but let's just say I don't actually put a lot of faith on that they say in interviews anymore. Assuming the were going with the "10 000" years later for the post-credits scene, they could probably "merge" the endings if they choose. Maybe everything evolves to a synthesis ending, or the experiment fails and future children didn't have green glowing eyes... who knows.

Personally I think Bioware should have made better endings and then just choose a cannon one for the next trilogy. No one can expect them to keep dealing with our choices forever.

You're making games costing 10~30 million to make in 2 years you can't afford to piss off fans. And it is the fans that will hold grudges against you hell seen as now even hold complete internet campaigns. Or they can give a boost to spread the franchise.

And that bioware wasn't going to revisit the ME franchise post ME3 and end it in this way?
Is something that is just stupid. Just give the fans their epilogue close 80% of this trilogy and you have a almost blank slate to work with for the next Trilogy which could be from 10~10k years in the future. Maybe one of the younger races found a way to harness Dark energy and are becoming a menace to the galactic community. Just look what humans have accomplished in the trilogy we went from steam engines to space fighting in what is 400 years or so.
Now what if a younger race don't have something like multiple dark ages / periods where everything stands still, they could achieve even more things.
 

z0m3le

Banned
Yeah, I agree with this. I've already seen the original ending so even if they were to make a special edition cut with the greatest ending in the history of game endings, it's still going to be tainted by the lingering feeling that they only did it to appease the overwhelmingly negative response to the original ending - not because they had an amazing writing staff.

The ending they should do is from the point Shepard wakes up in the rubble, he stands up and realizes that he is in front of that damn beam, if you haven't seen the 100% ending, you should watch it, there is no way Shepard was on the citadel when it blew up at that point. This is what Mac wanted us to bang our heads against the wall with, but with all this pressure, a DLC ending should be incoming, and this looks like a planned escape from the horrible ending we got.
 

Zerokku

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?
That's because the ending didn't add up, what do you personally believe Shepard waking up at the end of the game was about? he's obviously not on the citadel, unless you think 20th century earth built the thing with REBAR and CONCERT, the only way to me, that it makes sense is if he never left earth.

I want to believe the Indoctrinationation theory, but I'm reaching the point where I think Mac Walters simply is that incompetent.
 

Tookay

Member
That's because the ending didn't add up, what do you personally believe Shepard waking up at the end of the game was about? he's obviously not on the citadel, unless you think 20th century earth built the thing with REBAR and CONCERT, the only way to me, that it makes sense is if he never left earth.

So rather than looking at those inconsistencies and coming to the simple conclusion that Bioware's writers are incompetent, of which we have plenty of proof from interviews and prior history, you choose to go to the most convoluted, conspiratorial explanation possible, assuming that Bioware is capable of subtlety never before seen and that they'd secretly hint at a non-ending instead of just a crappy one - thereby incurring their fans' wrath - because....???
 

Duki

Banned
I was thinking about this, and the funny thing is if they were so desperate to kill their game universe they could have done the "hundred variables 'where are they now' slide show" at the end. Fans would be happier, and they'd set up enough scope of variables to imply that nothing is canon and there won't be a post-ME3 game.

But nope.

i have no idea why in the fuck they didnt just rip off the fallout games' endings

go through every character and every planet and every species and tell us what happened to them depending on our choices

literally easier and more satisfying

but no they wanted to be unconventional when they didnt have the talent
 
So rather than looking at those inconsistencies and coming to the simple conclusion that Bioware's writers are incompetent, of which we have plenty of proof from interviews and prior history, you choose to go to the most convoluted, conspiratorial explanation possible, assuming that Bioware is capable of subtlety never before seen and that they'd secretly hint at a non-ending instead of just a crappy one, thereby incurring their fans' wrath because....???

I think they are just reusing assets and scripting they had from one of their earlier indoctrination testings. Bioware is just fucking lazy. But if people can see Indoctrination in this
then maybe Ea/Bioware are going to exploit this with paid dlc.

I also still want to believe not satisfied with this endings. And if they are asking money for the ending render some fucking more movies about special War assets you collected in some of the Earth take back invasion cutscenes.
 

z0m3le

Banned
So rather than looking at those inconsistencies and coming to the simple conclusion that Bioware's writers are incompetent, of which we have plenty of proof from interviews and prior history, you choose to go to the most convoluted, conspiratorial explanation possible, assuming that Bioware is capable of subtlety never before seen and that they'd secretly hint at a non-ending instead of just a crappy one - thereby incurring their fans' wrath - because....???

The rest of the game doesn't have these problems, infact the entire game up to that point is amazing, the reason to do something like this is to make the ending 100% the most memorable thing they could produce, I don't see how this ending I am talking about is outside of the mass effect's style, Shepard fighting off the reapers trying to control his mind is exactly how it looks like it plays out if you simply go with the red beam and finished the game at 100% (which I did during a second play through over the weekend)
 

Galactic Fork

A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
One thing about the whole "it's art, so you they shouldn't change it" stuff. It's not like it's a precedent really. Books sometimes come out with new editions. The Stephen King book The Gunslinger had a massively revised version to clear up inconsistencies and things that were unclear to the reader. Plus movies are released with alternate endings. And the special edition of Star Wars with Greedo shooting first.
 

GorillaJu

Member
The rest of the game doesn't have these problems, infact the entire game up to that point is amazing, the reason to do something like this is to make the ending 100% the most memorable thing they could produce, I don't see how this ending I am talking about is outside of the mass effect's style, Shepard fighting off the reapers trying to control his mind is exactly how it looks like it plays out if you simply go with the red beam and finished the game at 100% (which I did during a second play through over the weekend)

You're high. The rest of the game is chock full of inconsistencies. You're just highlighting the ones that serve your argument.
 
What bothers me is that now fans have now grasp on to one strand of hope, the stupid and ridiculous indoctrination theory, Bioware/EA will probably make this a continuation of the ending, if they are forced to, and these ludicrous fans will wave their hands in the air claiming that they knew it all along. It is a self feeling prophecy by a bunch of dummies.
 

z0m3le

Banned
You're high. The rest of the game is chock full of inconsistencies. You're just highlighting the ones that serve your argument.

Well, when Jacob is shot in the side, it's still the side he is shot in. If you have any examples of inconsistencies though, I'm listening.

What bothers me is that now fans have now grasp on to one strand of hope, the stupid and ridiculous indoctrination theory, Bioware/EA will probably make this a continuation of the ending, if they are forced to, and these ludicrous fans will wave their hands in the air claiming that they knew it all along. It is a self feeling prophecy by a bunch of dummies.

Bioware said they had thought of using the Indoctrination theory already, but decided against it. Shepard waking up in earth rubble does allow them to change that though, and this is what I'm saying, weather they wanted this ending to be real or not doesn't actually matter if they do fall to pressure of a new DLC ending, it's completely possible that Shepard being alive at the end of the game is something they left open unpurpose, to allow for them to pick up after the ending we all saw.
 

danwarb

Member
It's still best Mass Effect. 9/10

The end doesn't spoil it, even though it's a bit naff and doesn't make quite enough sense. Most of us will meet naff and pointless ends.
 

Tookay

Member
One thing about the whole "it's art, so you they shouldn't change it" stuff. It's not like it's a precedent really. Books sometimes come out with new editions. The Stephen King book The Gunslinger had a massively revised version to clear up inconsistencies and things that were unclear to the reader. Plus movies are released with alternate endings. And the special edition of Star Wars with Greedo shooting first.

And it got properly shit on by fans, because it messed with the arc of a beloved character (Han) all because the artist got squeamish by the implications of his character initially being a self-interested asshole, who - gosh - might kill people to save himself.

Which, y'know, was the point of his character development making him a better person.

The rest of the game doesn't have these problems, infact the entire game up to that point is amazing, the reason to do something like this is to make the ending 100% the most memorable thing they could produce, I don't see how this ending I am talking about is outside of the mass effect's style, Shepard fighting off the reapers trying to control his mind is exactly how it looks like it plays out if you simply go with the red beam and finished the game at 100% (which I did during a second play through over the weekend)

I'm not even sure what you're arguing anymore.

I think they are just reusing assets and scripting they had from one of their earlier indoctrination testings. Bioware is just fucking lazy.

I agree that they're lazy. I think they just reused assets haphazardly, just to throw a bone to people who bothered to get the best ending, and didn't anticipate insane superfans analyzing, "This texture is the concrete from the London scene!"

What bothers me is that now fans have now grasp on to one strand of hope, the stupid and ridiculous indoctrination theory, Bioware/EA will probably make this a continuation of the ending, if they are forced to, and these ludicrous fans will wave their hands in the air claiming that they knew it all along. It is a self feeling prophecy by a bunch of dummies.

You know it's going to happen. The movement gets stronger every day.
 

Galactic Fork

A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
And it got properly shit on by fans, because it messed with the arc of a beloved character (Han) all because the artist got squeamish by the implications of his character initially being a self-interested asshole, who - gosh - might kill people to save himself.

Which, y'know, was the point of his character development making him a better person.

My point was that movies and books have stuff changed or added too often enough, saying they shouldn't touch Mass Effect because art is sacred is BS. They'd just be listening to fans rather than publishers or focus groups.
 

Tookay

Member
My point was that movies and books have stuff changed or added too often enough, saying they shouldn't touch Mass Effect because art is sacred is BS. They'd just be listening to fans rather than publishers or focus groups.

Okay, then ignore the "art is sacred" angle.

Let's choose the "do you really want artists to emulate post-80s George Lucas?" angle.
 

z0m3le

Banned
I agree that they're lazy. I think they just reused assets haphazardly, just to throw a bone to people who bothered to get the best ending, and didn't anticipate insane superfans analyzing, "This texture is the concrete from the London scene!"

You make it sound like we are piecing together a conspiracy, I believe that they wanted us to speculate on these things, that it was suppose to be inconsistent and that with all this pressure, they will go with the indoctrination theory, simply because they have Shepard wake up in the rubble (the entire point of this rubble is that it couldn't exist on the citadel)... It allows for them to change the ending in the way we are talking about and we already know they thought about doing this but rejected it, it's thanks to our feedback that it would happen most likely.
 

Galactic Fork

A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Okay, then ignore the "art is sacred" angle.

Let's choose the "do you really want artists to emulate post-80s George Lucas?" angle.

I'd rather them follow Stephen King's example and realize the version out wasn't great, so release a revised version that fixed and cleared things up.
 
My point was that movies and books have stuff changed or added too often enough, saying they shouldn't touch Mass Effect because art is sacred is BS. They'd just be listening to fans rather than publishers or focus groups.

What the fuck are focus groups never heard of them getting used is it a new thing?
And what kind of people are in those focus groups gamers or people not related to this industry just picked off the streets?

So a artist is like one of the few jobs where critique is not a good thing.
Hell i bet that if i hadn't gotten a shitload of critique on my programming work i would have never grown and still make shitty and slow code.
Not that im done i love getting critique from people on my work its what made me grow as a programmer given im still in uni.
But then i also love giving critique and from what i have seen the people that did nothing with their critique are dropping out one at a time.
 

Replicant

Member
Let's choose the "do you really want artists to emulate post-80s George Lucas?" angle.

Let's not do that Bullshit excuses. Treat every piece of entertainment medium on a case by case basis. Not all restoration/addition ends up shitty like George Lucas' Star Wars. Blade Runner's plot was changed and it was for the better and most of all, the original is still there if people so desires it.

The good thing about Mass Effect 3 is that it's a "choose your path" kind of game. You don't want the ending to be so and so? Then don't choose so and so, chose something else that you prefer to see. The problem with these endings is that there's none that many people would like to choose. They're all shitty and samey and full of plot holes.
 

derFeef

Member
i have no idea why in the fuck they didnt just rip off the fallout games' endings

go through every character and every planet and every species and tell us what happened to them depending on our choices

literally easier and more satisfying

but no they wanted to be unconventional when they didnt have the talent

I am confident the ending is the way it is because they wanted it to be that way. Saying they have no talent is ridiculous, as ME3 has some great stuff in it. It's a shame for the fans, they obviously thought that if they would left us in the dark about pretty much anything would be a good idea.
 

Gustav

Banned
One thing about the whole "it's art, so you they shouldn't change it" stuff. It's not like it's a precedent really. Books sometimes come out with new editions. The Stephen King book The Gunslinger had a massively revised version to clear up inconsistencies and things that were unclear to the reader. Plus movies are released with alternate endings. And the special edition of Star Wars with Greedo shooting first.

I think the argument is that if changes are to be made, they should be done by the creator, not the consumers.
 

Abylim

Member
Another thing, didnt Bioware explicitly state that there wouldnt be a "switch" or one thing that destroys the reapers? Isnt that what Crucible is?
 
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