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[Duki]

man, the games are art dont touch it argument is retarded

people didnt bitch about greedo shoots first because it changed the movie, they bitched because it made it objectively shittier

conversely, no one bitches when a directors cut of a movie comes out and is better than the original just because they changed their "original vision" (one which was already hampered by things like real life, producers, and having to make money anyway)

if they change their artistic vision for the better why would anyone bitch

 

[Galactic Fork]

I think the argument is that if changes are to be made, they should be done by the creator, not the consumers.

Consumers aren't changing the ending, they are asking the creator to change it.

 

[Tookay]

Let's not do that Bullshit excuses. Treat every piece of entertainment medium on a case by case basis. Not all restoration/addition ends up shitty like George Lucas' Star Wars. Blade Runner's plot was changed and it was for the better and most of all, the original is still there if people so desires it.

The good thing about Mass Effect 3 is that it's a "choose your path" kind of game. You don't want the ending to be so and so? Then don't choose so and so, chose something else that you prefer to see. The problem with these endings is that there's none that many people would like to choose. They're all shitty and samey and full of plot holes.

I'd disagree with the Blade Runner example, because it removed the interesting ambiguity of Deckard's character and made everything one-sided in favor of one interpretation (look, an ending where lots of speculation was good because it was grounded in the themes of the movie itself!).

However, I agree, let's drop all the analogies. Besides, I was mostly just being snarky for the hell of it.

I still don't think it's right to give Bioware a mulligan here, though, for reasons already explained ad nauseam.

 

[dragonelite]

Consumers aren't changing the ending, they are asking the creator to change it.

Jep we are asking for bioware to change the endings like a second chance to try it again fuck it up again and i dont think people will give them a change again. And be extra critical before preordering from them.

I for one am in a state right now that i won't believe a word that comes out of bioware until they proof them to me they are acting in their fans interest and not some corporate guy in the top.

 

[StunandStab]

Guys, my game just froze after the credits, and my screen looks like this:

could this be a hint of future ending DLC to come?

 

[Minion101]

Consumers aren't changing the ending, they are asking the creator to change it.

Because they feel entitled?

 

[Replicant]

I'd disagree with the Blade Runner example, because it removed the interesting ambiguity of Deckard's character and made everything one-sided in favor of one interpretation (look, an ending where lots of speculation was good because it was grounded in the themes of the movie itself!)

Actually, by adding that ending, speculation was introduced to the story. Without it, Deckard is human through and through, there's no interpretation. With the addition, you start to wonder if Deckard could be replicant or it's just a coincidence that he has that dream.

I still don't think it's right to give Bioware a mulligan here, though, for reasons already explained ad nauseam.

Then we have to agree to disagree. Bioware took away all of the choices that everyone has made throughout 2-3 Mass Effect games and just shove us 1 ending with 3 different color permutations.

 

[Dresden]

Because they feel entitled?

fixed

 

[Tookay]

Guys, my game just froze after the credits, and my screen looks like this:

could this be a hint of future ending DLC to come?

Multiple Shepards.

Hmmmm

The one we saw in the ending talking to Space Ghost must have just been a clone, who was indoctrinated because he wasn't the super awesome Shepard we've been playing all game! MY Shepard would have never gone with any of the weird stuff that was happening on the Citadel.

I KNEW THE INDOCTRINATED THEORY WAS RIGHT. REAL SHEPARD TO WAKE UP IN DLC.

 

[dragonelite]

Because they feel entitled?

Shouldn't we?
I am giving them a part of my $60 to them, they have to earn it like i have earned that money. Is my boss entitled if he complains about me delivering mail to the wrong adres or just throw it away?

Maybe im confusing entitlement with something different.

 

[Tookay]

Then we have to agree to disagree. Bioware took away all of the choices that everyone has made throughout 2-3 Mass Effect games and just shove us 1 ending with 3 different color permutations.

I'm going to agree to disagree on that point, BUT I will make a broader note that Bioware's always stripped you of meaningful choices and given you 2 or 3 barely different, color-coded choices for 3 games straight. You never had agency; you were always bound up in Bioware's straitjacket. Complaining about it now strikes me as silly.

 

[Replicant]

Because they feel entitled?

Because we ARE entitled to it. Of course, they can choose not to do it, but they also have to take the risk that many would not want to have anything to do with their products later on.

That's why I think customers need to vote with their money if they want their voice to be heard. It's only when company lose their cold hard cash that they actually listen. If they want our money, they better work for it. Especially in this day and age where they nickle and dime contents that should have been part of the game in the first place.

I'm going to agree to disagree on that point, BUT I will make a broader note that Bioware's always stripped you of meaningful choices and given you 2 or 3 barely different, color-coded choices for 3 games straight. You never had agency; you were always bound up in Bioware's straight jacket. Complaining about it now strikes me as silly.

Not quite. In ME2, you can die, you can lose some crews if you are not making efforts to make them loyal, you can lose ALL of them if you choose carelessly during suicide mission, and you can be successful if you do everything carefully. Granted it's not as much as one could possibly one, but they have more variety than this one ending tinted with 3 RGB colors.

 

[Gustav]

What really, really saddens me about this whole ordeal is that consumers are more up in arms about an ending they didn't like than the PS3 version of Skyrim.

Because we ARE entitled to it. Of course, they can choose not to do it, but they also have to take the risk that many would not want to have anything to do with their products later on.

That's why I think customers need to vote with their money if they want their voice to be heard. It's only when company lose their cold hard cash that they actually listen. If they want our money, they better work for it. Especially in this day and age where they nickle and dime contents that should have been part of the game in the first place.

Don't buy Mass Effect 3 then.

 

[Dresden]

"you've always eaten shit, why not keep eating it?"

Don't buy Mass Effect 3 then.

fans like game

game has bad ending

fans ask for fix because fans like game

now fan must not buy game?

why not demand change w/o breaking service

we still like most of game

one fixed ending does not supplant older vision

it no lucas fixes that permeate every version

gaming is no closed market in this age

every permutation is permissible

why not entitlement

 

[z0m3le]

Multiple Shepards.

Hmmmm

The one we saw in the ending talking to Space Ghost must have just been a clone, who was indoctrinated because he wasn't the super awesome Shepard we've been playing all game! MY Shepard would have never gone with any of the weird stuff that was happening on the Citadel.

I KNEW THE INDOCTRINATED THEORY WAS RIGHT. REAL SHEPARD TO WAKE UP IN DLC.

... He wakes up at the end of ME3 right now.

 

[Replicant]

Don't buy Mass Effect 3 then.

Read my previous post. I already returned my PC copy to Amazon. And may do the same with my already opened PS3 copy since apparently Amazon is allowing it. Can't wait for my refund so I can buy SH: Downpour.

 

[Galactic Fork]

I'm going to agree to disagree on that point, BUT I will make a broader note that Bioware's always stripped you of meaningful choices and given you 2 or 3 barely different, color-coded choices for 3 games straight. You never had agency; you were always bound up in Bioware's straitjacket. Complaining about it now strikes me as silly.

I dunno, i found it interesting that if you killed wrex early on and had Wreve as the head of the Krogan, and if you destroyed the genophage info, then when you're trying to cure the genophage, you can convince Mordin that Wreve will suck as a leader and Eve is dead, so he agrees to not send out the cure. That's a rather different scenario than what I had in my play though.

 

[Tookay]

That's why I think customers need to vote with their money if they want their voice to be heard. It's only when company lose their cold hard cash that they actually listen. If they want our money, they better work for it. Especially in this day and age where they nickle and dime contents that should have been part of the game in the first place.

Which is why you shouldn't accept them retconning the ending and making DLC to rectify it (because let's face it, it won't be free, you'll have to pay for it). It doesn't hurt Bioware for their stupid storytelling by voting with your wallet.

If you want your voice heard, you shouldn't be giving them outs to find new ways to make money for not getting things right the first time.

 

[danwarb]

Read my previous post. I already returned my PC copy to Amazon. Can't wait for my refund so I can buy SH: Downpour.

I'd recommend ME3 again instead.

 

[Minion101]

Then we have to agree to disagree. Bioware took away all of the choices that everyone has made throughout 2-3 Mass Effect games and just shove us 1 ending with 3 different color permutations.

I like this quote from penny arcade

"The claim here is that five years worth of gaming is wrapped up in a ten minute cut scene. I guess this comes down to when you think the ending starts. Like Tycho, I consider Mass Effect 3 to be “the ending. The game starts with Earth under attack and from that point on it’s a mad dash to try and stop the Reapers. I’d argue that if you like ME3 then you liked the ending."

 

[dragonelite]

What really, really saddens me about this whole ordeal is that consumers are more up in arms about an ending they didn't like than the PS3 version of Skyrim.

Don't buy Mass Effect 3 then.

This concerns what maybe 20~30% of the users.
With ME3 100% get exposed to a shitty ending.
And 90% plus are complaining.

But then i play on pc so most of the time performance is no problem unless really shitty running code. But then again Skyrim pc wasn't the smoothest or a good looking game on a technical base artistic the game is just gorgeous to look at and the world felt alive for me Kinda like ME3. But without a sour ending.

 

[Dresden]

I like this quote from penny arcade

"The claim here is that five years worth of gaming is wrapped up in a ten minute cut scene. I guess this comes down to when you think the ending starts. Like Tycho, I consider Mass Effect 3 to be “the ending. The game starts with Earth under attack and from that point on it’s a mad dash to try and stop the Reapers. I’d argue that if you like ME3 then you liked the ending."

that's retarded

 

[JambiBum]

The only problems I have with the ending are that it doesn't give us any conclusions to any of the story lines that we had throughout the series and that all of the relays are destroyed no matter what choice you make. I didn't have a problem with what the choices were because they made sense to me. What bothered me about them though is the fact that they have the same end result. The relays are destroyed and your crew ends up on that planet. None of the choices save the relays. None of them have a different conclusion. None of them show you what happens to the Krogans/Quarians/etc. If the destroy choice would have shown those things and saved the relays then I would have been perfectly fine with the endings.

 

[EatChildren]

Fans aren't entitled to a new ending, nor are they entitled to BioWare doing anything or even acknowledging their problems (you could maybe make a case for entitlement in regards to false advertising, but that's an grey subject). What fans are entitled to do, as paying customers of entertainment, is complain about the product, and do so how ever they like, and as vocal as they feel necessary.

 

[Zen]

I like this quote from penny arcade

"The claim here is that five years worth of gaming is wrapped up in a ten minute cut scene. I guess this comes down to when you think the ending starts. Like Tycho, I consider Mass Effect 3 to be “the ending. The game starts with Earth under attack and from that point on it’s a mad dash to try and stop the Reapers. I’d argue that if you like ME3 then you liked the ending."

The mental gymnastics that Gabe has to jump through on that are nothing short of serious, as with most of his counter arguments.

In the end, this point is nothing but an intellectually dishonest play on semantics.

"If we merely take what the term 'ending' from the usage the fans are using it under and assign it a different meaning, then their argument is invalid!'

 

[Tookay]

I like this quote from penny arcade

"The claim here is that five years worth of gaming is wrapped up in a ten minute cut scene. I guess this comes down to when you think the ending starts. Like Tycho, I consider Mass Effect 3 to be “the ending. The game starts with Earth under attack and from that point on it’s a mad dash to try and stop the Reapers. I’d argue that if you like ME3 then you liked the ending."

Okay, then people are complaining about the ending of the ending ruining their experiences.

They're just playing with semantics. Typical Penny Arcade missing the forest for the trees.

 

[derFeef]

I like this quote from penny arcade

"The claim here is that five years worth of gaming is wrapped up in a ten minute cut scene. I guess this comes down to when you think the ending starts. Like Tycho, I consider Mass Effect 3 to be “the ending. The game starts with Earth under attack and from that point on it’s a mad dash to try and stop the Reapers. I’d argue that if you like ME3 then you liked the ending."

I LOVED ME3 but I did not like the ending in hindsight. So he is wrong.

 

[Dresden]

Read my previous post. I already returned my PC copy to Amazon. And may do the same with my already opened PS3 copy since apparently Amazon is allowing it. Can't wait for my refund so I can buy SH: Downpour.

Does anyone know if they do this for regular edition copies?

 

[Replicant]

I like this quote from penny arcade

"The claim here is that five years worth of gaming is wrapped up in a ten minute cut scene. I guess this comes down to when you think the ending starts. Like Tycho, I consider Mass Effect 3 to be “the ending. The game starts with Earth under attack and from that point on it’s a mad dash to try and stop the Reapers. I’d argue that if you like ME3 then you liked the ending."

That is the dumbest thing I've read so far. Just because I like to have sex, it doesn't mean I automatically want to marry the person I have sex with (aka, it doesn't mean I love the person). Not really appropriate analogy but it's close enough.

 

[Replicant]

Which is why you shouldn't accept them retconning the ending and making DLC to rectify it (because let's face it, it won't be free, you'll have to pay for it). It doesn't hurt Bioware for their stupid storytelling by voting with your wallet.

If you want your voice heard, you shouldn't be giving them outs to find new ways to make money for not getting things right the first time.

Well, there is this thing called YouTube in case they want us to pay for it and you don't feel like paying again.

Does anyone know if they do this for regular edition copies?

They do. Someone posted that thread from BSN saying that Amazon accepting returns. A few pages back, I think.

 

[danwarb]

I like this quote from penny arcade

"The claim here is that five years worth of gaming is wrapped up in a ten minute cut scene. I guess this comes down to when you think the ending starts. Like Tycho, I consider Mass Effect 3 to be “the ending. The game starts with Earth under attack and from that point on it’s a mad dash to try and stop the Reapers. I’d argue that if you like ME3 then you liked the ending."

True. My only real problem with the ending was the dissapointing explanation for the Reapers/Catalyst.

 

[dragonelite]

Which is why you shouldn't accept them retconning the ending and making DLC to rectify it (because let's face it, it won't be free, you'll have to pay for it). It doesn't hurt Bioware for their stupid storytelling.

If you want your voice heard, you shouldn't be giving them outs to find new ways to make money for not getting things right the first time.

ME3 ending dlc is probably the last impulse buy from bioware for a long time for me.
Still going to check out reviews about it from people on youtube or forums.
Maybe a stupid reason but i already spend over 150 euro getting the trilogy and dlc on the pc and i also have ME1 & 2 on 360. So yeah a extra 15 euro for a proper ending won't hurt me.

I like this quote from penny arcade

"The claim here is that five years worth of gaming is wrapped up in a ten minute cut scene. I guess this comes down to when you think the ending starts. Like Tycho, I consider Mass Effect 3 to be “the ending. The game starts with Earth under attack and from that point on it’s a mad dash to try and stop the Reapers. I’d argue that if you like ME3 then you liked the ending."

People want closure for a series they are heavenly invested in.
And i don't expect press or not fanatic fans to understand that.
For most people that liked the ending i always ask which ME have you played how many save games have you made to look at different outcomes? Most of the time they only played ME2 and ME3 and didn't even import a save game or have different expectations.

 

[Dresden]

They do. Someone posted that thread from BSN saying that Amazon accepting returns. A few pages back, I think.

I'm looking at their policy right now and . . . they don't accepted opened copies. Perhaps the CE copies are okay because of how they were originally sealed? Still, this sounds iffy and I only have the regular edition.

 

[z0m3le]

True. My only real problem with the ending was the dissapointing explanation for the Reapers/Catalyst.

My problem was the glaring mistakes, Liara and Javik were caught in the beam, and when I woke up, I walked over to them, Shepard fell to the ground in front of Liara and crawled towards her, then got up and got shot in the left shoulder, but yet after I destroy all the reapers and all synthetic life, (red ending) Liara, Javik and EDI walk off the ship and onto jungle planet with everyone else, then I wake up on earth, even though I was caught in an explosion in the Citadel, miles above it.

Those are not simply, I don't like the ending or like it, that just isn't possible, unless Shepard dreamed every moment after the initial blast.

 

[Replicant]

I'm looking at their policy right now and . . . they don't accepted opened copies. Perhaps the CE copies are okay because of how they were originally sealed? Still, this sounds iffy and I only have the regular edition.

Why don't you try contacting them? Here's the thread on BSN:

Amazon giving refund

 

[Minion101]

New version of that one guy's Indoctrination video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck

 

[branny]

Guys, my game just froze after the credits, and my screen looks like this:

could this be a hint of future ending DLC to come?

Welp, guess they're going this route after all.

 

[Replicant]

My problem was the glaring mistakes, Liara and Javik were caught in the beam, and when I woke up, I walked over to them, Shepard fell to the ground in front of Liara and crawled towards her, then got up and got shot in the left shoulder, but yet after I destroy all the reapers and all synthetic life, (red ending) Liara, Javik and EDI walk off the ship and onto jungle planet with everyone else, then I wake up on earth, even though I was caught in an explosion in the Citadel, miles above it.

Those are not simply, I don't like the ending or like it, that just isn't possible, unless Shepard dreamed every moment after the initial blast.

Your EMS is too low. You won't see any of your team mates dead on the ground if your EMS is high. But yeah, trust it to Bioware to fuck up that ending. They should have made one where you don't see your dead team mate in the jungle.

 

[Galactic Fork]

Your EMS is too low. You won't see any of your team mates dead on the ground if your EMS is high. But yeah, trust it to Bioware to fuck up that ending. They should have made one where you don't see your dead team mate in the jungle.

That can't be true because you don't see Shepard waking up unless your EMS is over 5000.

 

[Gustav]

This concerns what maybe 20~30% of the users.
With ME3 100% get exposed to a shitty ending.
And 90% plus are complaining.

But then i play on pc so most of the time performance is no problem unless really shitty running code. But then again Skyrim pc wasn't the smoothest or a good looking game on a technical base artistic the game is just gorgeous to look at and the world felt alive for me Kinda like ME3. But without a sour ending.

One doesn't work, the other has bad writing. Priorities, people.

 

[z0m3le]

That can't be true because you don't see Shepard waking up unless your EMS is over 5000.

I have the PC version, maybe it's a bug that they are dead and walking off the ship? with Shepard waking up? I did edit that file, but only for graphical improvements... maybe this allowed me to see the dead team mates somehow?

Also the first time through, my EMS was too low, but I played through the game from an earlier save this weekend and finished it with the true ending.

 

[derFeef]

They messed up and wanted to show you your love interest and a random character, but did not take the dead squadmates under consideration. Either that, or the ending scenes are buggy somehow.

 

[Rapstah]

I have the PC version, maybe it's a bug that they are dead and walking off the ship? with Shepard waking up? I did edit that file, but only for graphical improvements... maybe this allowed me to see the dead team mates somehow?

Also the first time through, my EMS was too low, but I played through the game from an earlier save this weekend and finished it with the true ending.

If your didn't literally see them dead then the game says they survived.

 

[Zen]

New version of that one guy's Indoctrination video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck

This one does add a few decent new points. But I think the original video got to the point faster, and thus flowed better overall.

Hold the line
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JspE9ctseIU&hd=1

 

[Replicant]

That can't be true because you don't see Shepard waking up unless your EMS is over 5000.

What I meant is that you wouldn't see your 2 companions' dead body in London if your EMS is high. My EMS was 6890 and the result was I didn't see Javik and Vega's body in London post beam attack whereas other people here have reported that they see their colleagues' dead body there. So I only assume that they must have low EMS.

Because of that, I wasn't surprised when Javik showed up out of Normandy in the ending. Because I assume he got evacuated post beam attack when everyone assume that Shepard is dead. My Shepard lived too at the end though.

What I don't understand is if they assume that Shepard is dead, and they are still alive, why don't they try to get inside the beam to open Citadel's door? Oh right, Bioware!

 

[derFeef]

What I don't understand is if they assume that Shepard is dead, and they are still alive, why don't they try to get inside the beam to open Citadel's door? Oh right, Bioware!

Maybe they tried but we just don't see it? Maybe that's why the Normandy is cought in a relay stream?

 

[PastorOfMuppets]

Do you guys think it's possible that the ending was rushed because they had to divert some resources to work on that multiplayer mode?

In any case, the MP mode isn't horrible but I can't see it having much of a sustainable community - at least on PC. No dedicated servers, no mods, no level editor, very few levels and seems to be designed more for microtransactions and further DLC packs.

 

[Galactic Fork]

What I meant is that you wouldn't see your 2 companions' dead body in London if your EMS is high. My EMS was 6890 and the result was I didn't see Javik and Vega's body in London post beam attack whereas other people here have reported that they see their colleagues' dead body there. So I only assume that they must have low EMS.

Because of that, I wasn't surprised when Javik showed up out of Normandy in the ending. Because I assume he got evacuated post beam attack when everyone assume that Shepard is dead. My Shepard lived too at the end though.

What I don't understand is if they assume that Shepard is dead, and they are still alive, why don't they try to get inside the beam to open Citadel's door? Oh right, Bioware!

I was questioning whether or not EMS has anything to do with seeing your crew there. z0m3le saw his, and we know for a fact that the Shepard waking up happens at plus 5000.
So seeing your crew must have nothing to do with EMS.

 

[Replicant]

Maybe they tried but we just don't see it? Maybe that's why the Normandy is cought in a relay stream?

I was going to say maybe Anderson told them to move back and he'll do it himself but Anderson didn't bother to tell Shepard that his friends are okay.

I am interested though why them going up to Citadel is the reason that Normandy is in the relay system? If the door was closed, then no one could get in from space. Unless you meant, they got in and then Normandy pick them up but then why don't they find Shepard? And how did they know Citadel was about to go haywire?

This is tiring. I think we're doing too much of a favor to Bioware by fanwanking these "maybes and ifs".

 

[derFeef]

I have yet to see a screenshot/video with dead squadmates. Can anyone post/link those?
Must be heartbraking :/

I was going to say maybe Anderson told them to move back and he'll do it himself but Anderson didn't bother to tell Shepard that his friends are okay.

I am interested though why them going up to Citadel is the reason that Normandy is in the relay system? If the door was closed, then no one could get in from space. Unless you meant, they got in and then Normandy pick them up but then why don't they find Shepard. This is tiring. I think we're doing too much of a favor to Bioware by fanwanking these "maybes and ifs".

True :/