Flatline
Banned
What do you mean? I might not know a lot about technical details but I know that Wii wouldn't be able to handle the psychics and detail required for that scene.
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Vigil in 2012: Wii U "has been on par with what we have with the current generation"
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
What do you mean? I might not know a lot about technical details but I know that Wii wouldn't be able to handle the psychics and detail required for that scene.
I bet it's not that after you've had a few beers.....
Unsuspecting? Even the most vocal Nintendo fans knew deep down what the score with the WiiU was.
Perhaps, but if Nintendo can get back that original Wii audience for the WiiU it will be a triumph. Simple as.
I love how people have figured out that all studios need for Samaritan level games is better hardware. Like that's what's been holding them back this whole this time. I mean, that's just logic, right? Good to know we all have a good appreciation for the sheer magnitude of effort that goes into making quality PS3 and 360 games. I can't wait for these future machines to come out which apparently create games for themselves. Publishers are going to love it.
Video games are very much about visual experiences. For many, that is proportionally more important than the evolution of gameplay, to the point where many feel the experience of playing a game is severely hindered if what's visually displayed is not impressive.
Today's Nintendo designs the hardware with the casual demographic as their priority.
Hardware does matter when it comes to offering better software. In this day and age, games aren't only about gameplay (as they were 20 years ago). Today's gaming is also about offering experiences.
You can have an excellent Action/Adventure as far as gameplay goes, with awesome mechanics and design, but with crappy animation, ugly graphics, unimpressive environments, archaic facial animations, no sense of immersion etc. As good as the game may be, in terms of gameplay, the experience would be weak becasue the hardware would hold it back.
Now, that wouldn't be much of a problem in platformer like Mario, where it's all about the level design, but in game like Zelda or Metroid it would make a huge difference.
I find that's an uphill climb for Nintendo. The Wiimote was something most people never seen or experienced before. Tablets, on the other hand, are very common and mainstream. I just don't see how Nintendo will be able to replicate the Wii's success this time around. I'm not saying it's impossible, just very unlikely imo.
Yeah you are right. People like you were just trying to get the delusional Nintendo fans to face reality.
So how many floating point operations has Wii-U been confirmed to have? That would give us a decent gauge of how much more powerful than PS360 Wii-U is. I haven't read the entire topic but I'm sure this has already been stated somewhere since some people are speaking in such definitives.
These kinds of posts pisses me off to no extent. Kindly quantify what this elusive "gameplay" that people put ahead of graphics? When the fuck did people say, "OH! NO SIR, KINDLY THROW AT ME THEM AWESUM GRAFIX AND FORGET TO ADD PHYSICS, AI, A STORY (a rudimentary one perhaps), LEVEL DESIGN ETC"? How the fuck is asking for better graphics all of a sudden putting it ahead of "gameplay"?
You want to talk about AI? The major hurdle of creating really smart AI besides the resources and the fact that we are far from creating fundamentally sentient AI, the game developers need the players to advance through the freaking game. This becomes all the more complicated when you are facing off multiple enemies at a given time. So if the AI were truly dynamic every single time, facing off multiple enemies would be a daunting challenge every single time. A game like KZ2/3 (and a few others) have AI that shows an active desire to change cover or flank etc. There has to be a measure of balance.
Secondly, with regards to power, more complex physics models are possible today than ever before and that is fucking irrefutable. Games like GT5, Forza, havok physics engine, etc all rely on the computational power of the system it is on to try and mimic the real world physics.
With regards to disc based format, what exactly is a cost effective, reasonable and realistic alternative?
Metroid Prime 3 was on the Wii. It also had more hand crafted detail and content than 99% of any other first person action game this generation. Only the Portal series has had such an immersive game world where first person games go.
Both of those games/series are similar in that they don't push any technical boundaries, but rather rely on old school level design and meticulous planning.
Of course hardware must evolve, but there's nothing wrong in diverse approaches to platform design.
Sammy Samusu
Member
But goes back to the same thing.
You're assuming the games are been held back, based on some pre-conceived notions around the hardware,some limits you have created and expectations of what the other 2 consoles might bring.
The Wii U could be 20 times more powerful than what it is and there are going to be games with "crappy animation, ugly graphics, unimpressive environments, archaic facial animations, no sense of immersion". That has no relation to power or capabilities of said console.
In console games, power is also tied to how much effort they put. Same way you have third-party PS3 games that struggle at running at decent framerate rates, high resolutions, etc; while games like God of War and Uncharted show otherwise. You have multi-releases that had tons of problems in PS3; while others actually were better on the PS3.
Until all consoles are out, we can't talk about the Wii U been held back or not been "on par" with others. Because who knows if an Xbox 720 games could be just the same as the Wii U release different approaches to controls. Heck, if the next Xbox is more around Kinect and all it gets is ports of Wii U with added motions/gestures. Or if the Xbox-tablet controller rumors are true and it ends getting just ports of Wii U games with shorter loadings.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
No. It´s pretty good though.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
We can't know for sure, but Half Life 2 was doing impressive scripted sequences combined with physics objects on an Xbox, and that is what that section of uncharted 2 fundamentally is; a very impressive scripted sequence utilising physics objects for flavour (and it's not like it was using a super complex variety of physics objects either; IIRC it was some different sized / weight crates and some lights on chains on the celing, not a crate full of different shaped and weighted materials that spills over).
It's impressive to you, because it was designed to be impressive; I doubt it's even the most CPU or GPU intensive part of the game when profiled.
Based on what?
The 3DS has an analogue, a d-pad , 4 face buttons and 2 shoulder buttons - a control scheme explicitly described by Nintendo themselves as being off putting to 'casuals'.
You do realise how incredibly subjective everything you just described is, right?
Because you pretty much just described Dragons Lair as one of the greatest games ever.
Spieler Eins
Member
Yeah, well... you know, that's just like... ah, your opionion, man.
Thankfully, some people... well, at least I am not as narrow minded and still had quite an amazing experience playing Super Metroid and Chrono Trigger for the first time on Virtual Console, while I can only cringe at some of these terribly poor attempts of making videogames ,cinematic' in this generation. Shit, most (if not all) of the only worthwhile JRPGs in this gen have been on inferior hardware (PS2/Wii/Handhelds) offering great and absolutely refreshing experiences.
Must be horrible to lose any kind of excitement for anything, as soon as you see something that's more shiny and flashy, lol.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Console Wars
What about in an RPG? All those things are very important, yes? Then why have most of the best RPG's this gen been on handhelds? Hell, the best console RPG IMO was Xenoblade on the super underpowered Wii, and that was anything BUT an weak experience.
Nintendo's actions since the launch of the original DS.
It’s not subjective at all.
What is subjective is how much each individual cares about it.
No I didn't.
I never said that gameplay doesn't matter, what I said is that, when it comes to offering more than a good game (aka a strong expirience), there are other things that matter as well.
Xenoblade is a fantastic game, there’s no doubt about it. If Wii was as powerful as PS360 and we had Xenoblade's epic overworld with environments as immersive as those found in Skyrim, the overall experience would be a lot stronger.
What I talked about in my previous post was how hardware does matter when it comes to offering better software, nothing more. What I said applied for this gen where the Wii was not able to compete against the HD twins in terms of power.
If the situation with Wii U is similar, everything will apply for the next-gen as well. If all these rumors are bullshit and Nintendo actually makes a console that’s not behind the industry standards, it won't apply.
I guess we have to wait and find out.
Wii had no programmable shader support. It was almost literally an overclocked Gamecube, using the same late 90's tech. This means that developers would have had to redo their graphics from scratch to port to the Wii. Wii couldn't even handle Doom 3, but that had less to do with brute force power and everything to do with it's GPU feature set.
HOWEVER, there's absolutely nothing pointing to that situation happening again. Graphics technology hasn't made anything close to that kind of leap this past decade. Chips have gotten faster and RAM has gotten cheaper, but these are things that don't require rewriting game engines or creating assets from scratch. The fact that BF3 was ported to PS3 and 360 makes this abundantly clear. If there was going to be something keeping theoretical 720 games from being on Wii U, they would have to include something brand new like voxels or some shit.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Also better hardware also makes things easier on devs .
Either way if the touch pad gaming catches on like Wii it won't really matter how strong Nintendo new consoles is,
They will make lots of money .
Either way if the touch pad gaming catches on like Wii it won't really matter how strong Nintendo new consoles is,
They will make lots of money .
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
I must admit I am somewhat surprised to see so many people vehemently declaring just how integrally important the power of their gaming machine is to their overall gaming experience.
I'm surprised, because it doesn't seem to be folks who post in PC threads.
I mean, it would be pretty hypocritical to be openly lambasting a consoles entire library as shit because its computational power is inadequate while playing on 5 year plus old hardware and ignoring the leaps that have occurred in that period, right?
I'm surprised, because it doesn't seem to be folks who post in PC threads.
I mean, it would be pretty hypocritical to be openly lambasting a consoles entire library as shit because its computational power is inadequate while playing on 5 year plus old hardware and ignoring the leaps that have occurred in that period, right?
DisenLedZep
Member
Didn't read the whole topic, so, sorry if this has been pointed out, but:
They are not saying they can't... they are saying they won't. That's a big difference right there.
It's pretty much normal, to expect that multiplataform games will look the same in the 3 consoles, not for having the same power specs, but for economical issues.
Exclusives are going to be the ones that truly shows the potential and power of the WiiU.
They are not saying they can't... they are saying they won't. That's a big difference right there.
It's pretty much normal, to expect that multiplataform games will look the same in the 3 consoles, not for having the same power specs, but for economical issues.
Exclusives are going to be the ones that truly shows the potential and power of the WiiU.
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
To me, it seems like Vigil are justifying a lazy port. Nothing more.
Let's face it, THQ aren't in the best financial shape right now.
Let's face it, THQ aren't in the best financial shape right now.
I disagree. I mean, if that's true, then there's a lot of "Lazy Ports" on Wii already.
It can, but not necessarily. This isn't even limited to Wii, some of the best games this gen didn't push the system to its limits, some of them did, but not all of them.
I suppose what I said is an exaggeration upon reflection. But hardware alone is not the entire experience.. if that makes sense
They even cited budget as being the reason they wouldn't push the Wii U, even though it's more powerful. And yes, THQ is hurting pretty bad, especially after the whole uDraw for PS360 debacle.
Come on son.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Welp, I'm going to come out and admit I'm a graphics whore. I love the total package, and having great graphics doesn't mean everything else suffers. There are plenty of games that deliver on all fronts.
Hell, even Miyamoto stated how much he was enjoying working on Pikmin 3 now that it was in HD.
Having said that I think today's games still look gorgeous. If U is pumping out more of that, then that's cool.
Hell, even Miyamoto stated how much he was enjoying working on Pikmin 3 now that it was in HD.
Having said that I think today's games still look gorgeous. If U is pumping out more of that, then that's cool.
Heh, I gave up on Xenoblade after 30 minutes because the graphics were too shitty to bother.
Well, yeah but, I mean, c'mon.
Then you're... How can I put this? Well, a complete fool I guess. Sorry.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
I've never really understood why the term 'lazy ports' is even a thing. There's no laziness going on... it's all about money.
If the X version of a game is projected to sell a lot of copies and be a big financial success, devs are going to focus their efforts and resources on making it the best it can be. If the Y version of the game is only gonna sell a fractional amount and ends up having bugs or running poorly, it doesn't have anything to do with devs being lazy -- there was simply less time, money and resources allocated to that version. That's not laziness. That's smart business. The end goal for these companies is to make money.
If the X version of a game is projected to sell a lot of copies and be a big financial success, devs are going to focus their efforts and resources on making it the best it can be. If the Y version of the game is only gonna sell a fractional amount and ends up having bugs or running poorly, it doesn't have anything to do with devs being lazy -- there was simply less time, money and resources allocated to that version. That's not laziness. That's smart business. The end goal for these companies is to make money.
Wow, thats a shame :/
Then you're... How can I put this? Well, a complete fool I guess. Sorry.
I'm not glad I missed out on it, but I've got a backlog of 70 or 80 games, and graphics are one of several things I consider when I prioritize them. If Xenoblade had graphics even approaching FFX (a PS2 game), it would have ranked highly enough to be worth my time.
I like great gameplay. And great gameplay is enhanced when I feel immersed in a game world. And when the graphics are poor, immersion just doesn't happen. I don't have time for an RPG I can't feel immersed in.
That's the point I think a lot of the non-apologists are making in this thread. Great artwork enabled by graphics horsepower does matter, both to the quality of a game's experience and to the market. "Gameplay" isn't this wholly separable quality.
Eteric Rice
Member
If it's true, I'll basically do the same. But I'll probably bite when it's $199 or $250. Depends.
Hopefully it's much better. But news hasn't been to promising.
Bad logic. It's better to not release a version than to release a shitty version. See: PS3 Skyrim. I'm still mad I gave them $60 for that piece of shit.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
There's a difference between releasing a game with nothing special put into the port, and releasing a game that's downright broken or bad on the new platform.
Darksiders Wii U will be at least as good, if not better, than the PS360 versions. There's nothing lazy about that, it's a launch game that will instantly be one of the best games in the lineup for the first year. If Nintendo has not given them fully spec'd dev kits or documentation for them to leverage any tangible power differences, that's Nintendo's fault, not Vigil's.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
I don't see how it's bad logic at all. Care to elaborate? It's about business and the allocation of resources based on projected earnings. There's nothing lazy about it.
The PS3 Skyrim debacle seemed like a unique situation, not the norm, of a lesser version of the game being completely unplayable. (From what I've read, not sure on details)
People claiming that decent graphics don't enhance games must be out of their minds.
I finished GOWIII for the second time today, that game looks mindblowing for console standards, and it completely adds to the experience.
Gameplay so fluid, fun, and visceral with graphics so jaw-dropping that it sent goddamn tingles down my spine.
By having the hardware on their side, developers can make their most outrageous ideas take shape without compromise, and this leads to some fantastic gameplay moments, and gives games a sense of scale that's simply impossible on lesser hardware.
I finished GOWIII for the second time today, that game looks mindblowing for console standards, and it completely adds to the experience.
Gameplay so fluid, fun, and visceral with graphics so jaw-dropping that it sent goddamn tingles down my spine.
By having the hardware on their side, developers can make their most outrageous ideas take shape without compromise, and this leads to some fantastic gameplay moments, and gives games a sense of scale that's simply impossible on lesser hardware.
It's also about your consumers, don't sell the a product that isn't up to par. Konami just sold PS3 owners a literally unplayable Silent Hill HD Collection. If they didn't feel comfortable enough to get a PS2 game running on PS3, or didn't want to spend the money to.... then don't release it. It's NOT an okay business practice.
nincompoop
Banned
...I don't get it.
What don't you get? The graphic fidelity (and worse, the artwork itself) were pure garbage.
Lemme share a little story about graphics and immersion.
This one time I lost myself in Advance Wars: DS, with the animations off. At that point, the whole game is just these blocky little sprites shuffling around on a big ugly grid. I was so into it that I literally had no idea what was going on around me. I'm lucky I didn't miss my train stop. Obviously, the graphics were terrible; it was the game itself that was so engrossing.
I know this is just me, though. Many other people seem to care a lot more about visuals.
This one time I lost myself in Advance Wars: DS, with the animations off. At that point, the whole game is just these blocky little sprites shuffling around on a big ugly grid. I was so into it that I literally had no idea what was going on around me. I'm lucky I didn't miss my train stop. Obviously, the graphics were terrible; it was the game itself that was so engrossing.
I know this is just me, though. Many other people seem to care a lot more about visuals.
JordanLMiller
Member
It's amazing to me how with each page of this thread the conversation is like more and more insane. We really need some new info soon. I don't know how we're gonna make it to e3...
nincompoop
Banned
I don't get whether you're completely blind, straight-up trolling or if you're confusing it with a different game (maybe Xenogears?)
so... you refuse to play any retro games at all? Because there are a ton of games I've enjoyed over the years and then gone back to later and even though graphically they're NEVER going to touch modern games I have no problem enjoying them. Really, it seems insanely limiting to say that graphics would per se limit your enjoyment of an otherwise quality game.